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SM Dev (John)

Squad Sizes

Squad Sizes   1 member has voted

  1. 1.

    • No
      232
    • Capped at 50
      202
    • Capped at 100
      123
    • Capped at 150
      18
    • Capped at 200
      32

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1,393 posts in this topic

Squad sizes are getting out of a hand. Some squads have over 100 players in the squad which is just hogging players and plunging clubs into debt. People complain about wages but what club in real life could survive with over a 100 players on the books?

I have just looked at a club with 56 players in 1st team, 56 in youth and 4 out on loan, a total of 116 players!!!

No club in real life would have a squad size larger than 50 at most.

We will be introducing a cap on squad size of 50 in 1st team and 50 in the youth squad, a maximum of 100. This number will then be reviewed (and likely decreased) in the near future.

This will not mean people will lose any players but they will not be able to sign any new players until their squads have been reduced.

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Re: Squad Sizes

Squad sizes are getting out of a hand. Some squads have over 100 players in the squad which is just hogging players and plunging clubs into debt. People complain about wages but what club in real life could survive with over a 100 players on the books?

No club in real life would have a squad size larger than 50 at most.

We will be introducing a cap of players of 50 in squad and 50 in the youth squad. This number will then be reviewed (and likely decreased) in the near future.

This will not mean people will lose any players but they will not be able to sign any new players until their squads have been reduced.

Great idea me thinks!! ;):)

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Re: Squad Sizes

Squad sizes are getting out of a hand. Some squads have over 100 players in the squad which is just hogging players and plunging clubs into debt. People complain about wages but what club in real life could survive with over a 100 players on the books?

I have just looked at a club with 56 players in 1st team' date=' 56 in youth and 4 out on loan, a total of 116 players!!!

No club in real life would have a squad size larger than 50 at most.

We will be introducing a cap on squad size of 50 in 1st team and 50 in the youth squad, a maximum of 100. This number will then be reviewed (and likely decreased) in the near future.

This will not mean people will lose any players but they will not be able to sign any new players until their squads have been reduced.[/quote']

This is a good idea Mr Gore! This will mean more opportunity of other managers bringing players in instead of people hogging them, as you stated above! I have never had a squad above 50 anyway let alone 100! So this would be a great addition...keep at it :)

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Re: Squad Sizes

Squad sizes are getting out of a hand. Some squads have over 100 players in the squad which is just hogging players and plunging clubs into debt. People complain about wages but what club in real life could survive with over a 100 players on the books?

I have just looked at a club with 56 players in 1st team' date=' 56 in youth and 4 out on loan, a total of 116 players!!!

No club in real life would have a squad size larger than 50 at most.

We will be introducing a cap on squad size of 50 in 1st team and 50 in the youth squad, a maximum of 100. This number will then be reviewed (and likely decreased) in the near future.

This will not mean people will lose any players but they will not be able to sign any new players until their squads have been reduced.[/quote']Dislike this idea immensely.

How will this improve the game for anybody?

I don't think 'hogging' is an issue, as there are so many players on the database, and talent arrives practically every day providing everyone an opportunity.

The people who complain about high wages and debt are not usually those with large squads, but those with small ones who have spent unwisely and acquired old high wage players with rating decreases, or have inherited this situation. Any manager inheriting a club with an unwanted size is easily able to release them as most of the players in large squads are so low rated.

The people with large squads are those who like to acquire assets as their clubs are too small to make much money from gate receipts. They are also the people who find scouting the most enjoyable element of the game. I think large squads are a harmless managerial choice that is very viable for these smaller clubs.

If it is capped, stadium increases need to be implemented to allow good managers to make comparable amounts of money to the larger teams, as capping it will hinder a popular money making method.

It may not be realistic to have large squads in that most real life clubs do not have a 100 players (although i expect the number of players on club's books do come near this when incorporating players of all levels - something SM cannot offer) but it is also not realistic to introduce a cap as that does not exist in real life.

Many people have been incredulous at large squads but these are normally just managers who are disappointed that their transfer target is taken. Beyond that, I have never witnessed anyone suffering.

Doru and RoyalAguila like this

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Re: Squad Sizes

We are currently looking at an initial cap of 50 first team players, and an initial cap of 50 youth team players.

This will give people with very large, and unrealistic squads, time to reduce them over the coming weeks.

We will then liaise with forum members, to come to a player cap limit for both squads, prior to setting anything in stone.

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Re: Squad Sizes

I think it a shame no liaison took place before the decision was made to introduce a cap. I know several managers who will hate the idea.

Introducing a cap and blocking transfers in the meantime is going to really put off many long term players who have built up large squads of potential superstars, and are now going to have to release largely unknown players if they want to improve their squad, or p/e them out for a fraction of the amount they paid.

It will also put off any manager joining a new club who finds themselves unable to buy any players as they would hope.

I think there will be more complaints about any transfer inhibitor than the previous situation.

There are a lot of managers who built there squad on the premise of gaining assets and have invested fortunes on this for hope of the long term over the short term - this will scupper some plans to an extent.

I know the proposal is not to cut squads down to a particularly low figure, but why do it at all?

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Re: Squad Sizes

The laison is happening on here and now. Nothing has been implemented and will take a few weeks to do so. A squad limit does need to be introduced however as managers could end up with, well basically an unlimited amount of players in their squad.

100 players in a squad does not seem unreasonable? Most squads only need around 25 1st team players, which leaves room for 75 'youth' and 'reserve' players!!

This will still allow managers to have a huge pool of potential talent, whilst not hogging every potentially talented player on the game!

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Re: Squad Sizes

I totally disagree with this idea - probably the very first of SM that has upset me this much to be honest. :( Completely agree with the forum legend on the other hand, tebthereb.

What exactly are large squads doing 'badly'? Surely there is a difference between a person ruining a club and a person building for the future.. I've got a Barca side in WC110 who have 69 players in the first team and 69 in the youth team, surely that says it all - scouting is an important factor in the game and I'm positive that if this is implemented it will reduce the amount of this. I truly wish I could see the fact of my Barca team, some real facts, like how many players have increased so far... rough guess?? 20-30 I'd say... Also, I've got another bunch of players in the first team squad who are aged 22/3 and aren't in the youth squad due to the 21 age limit (which I agree with) yet are definitely in the squad for further improvement and greater business. Little example I can remember offhand - Federici (GK). Surely at least a manager who's been with the club for 2 seasons+ should be able to have how many players he wants - the proof is there that he isn't trying to bust the clubs funds (btw, while saying this, having 138 players in the team, I must also mention that I'm 50m+ over financially) so where the finances are busted I have no idea...

Another fact - no one is going to buy 39 players + off me due to most of them being so bad (for now), but then again I wouldn't want to sell them either! They're hot prospects (at least 2/3's of them) so why would I want to sell them? I repeat, this will definitely have a large negative effect on scouting in the game. What's the use of scouting players when you cannot buy more? :confused:

I believe SM should seriously reconsider this, as it's not the best of ideas, especially seeing I'm in the situation, plus another good number of managers.. Surely some fact should be considered in some cases to who can buy how many players, like that it would be all right, just like how many days you have to log in. Example: Newbie - log in every 16 days - maximum of 80 players.

- Every number above is just an example (except when stating the amount of players in my Barca team :P

- Apologies for disagreeing with the idea.. B)

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Re: Squad Sizes

The laison is happening on here and now. Nothing has been implemented and will take a few weeks to do so. A squad limit does need to be introduced however as managers could end up with' date=' well basically an unlimited amount of players in their squad.

100 players in a squad does not seem unreasonable?

This will still allow managers to have a huge pool of potential talent, whilst not hogging every potentially talented player on the game![/quote']The initial post seemed very much a statement of fact rather than a request for discussion, and Ste's subsequent post only suggested that the size of the cap was open to debate, which is why I said it is a shame no discussion took place before the decision was made. If it is not set in stone though, great. :)

I really don't understand the concept of hogging. Players rating changes constantly, and there are thousands of players on the database, so nobody can ever come anywhere near to acquiring all potential talents.

If they try, this is a managerial choice and they will pay the price or succeed depending on the shrewdness of their purchases.

My only potential concern over large squads is the potential impact all those wages could have, as a future manager would still have it after releasing lots of players (unless they spent months manually selling low rated players)

So, if the concern is over club's being pulled into debt, perhaps SM should introduce something that means players are available at value cost should a club fall X amount into debt, say:

1st Div - £5m

2nd Div - £3m

3rd Div - £2m

4th Div - £1m

This would leave the transfer choices in the managers hands but would force them to keep a tight rein on their finances, or they risk having their best players bought out from under them to prevent bankruptcy. Their situation could be announced in the newspaper for instance. I think this is more realistic and playable. :)

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Re: Squad Sizes

The laison is happening on here and now. Nothing has been implemented and will take a few weeks to do so. A squad limit does need to be introduced however as managers could end up with' date=' well basically an unlimited amount of players in their squad.

100 players in a squad does not seem unreasonable? Most squads only need around 25 1st team players, which leaves room for [b']75[/b] 'youth' and 'reserve' players!!

This will still allow managers to have a huge pool of potential talent, whilst not hogging every potentially talented player on the game!

Yes John, but SM has players starting from the age of 15. Work it out:

Let's say (in real life how it would be - minimum amount calculated): 20 U/15's, 20 U/16's, 20 U/17's, 20 U/18's, 20 U/19's, 20 U/20's, 20 U/21's - 28 1st teamers (including reserves)... *gets out calculator :D * Thats approximately 170 players... :o

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Re: Squad Sizes

Bobo - Firstly no need to apologise for disagreeing, this is a forum.

The main complaint for you two guys is the scouting issue. You are saying that it will hinder your scouting of young players. I fail to see how?

What you are doing at the moment cannot be classed as scouting....buying 50 odd youngsters and dumping them in your youth squad is hardly scouting. Scouting involves judging players who will become good players, and so a cap will mean you will have to be better more realistic managers/scouts and only buy players who you believe will become good players not just snapping up every youngster on a wing and a prayer.

Lets get this in perspective a cap of 100 players is not really a serious cap at all!

Bobo - SM only has on its db players who have broken into the first team of clubs. We only have 175 players on the db who are under 18 so I dont see how your point is valid regarding U16's etc?

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Re: Squad Sizes

JERRY JERRY JERRY

I agree with teb and bobo :eek:

im not gonna write a story as i think teb and bobo have been sufficent with there reasons

Also no club hogs all the best players they might have a good squad but a majority of those players will be under 90

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Squad sizes are getting out of a hand. Some squads have over 100 players in the squad which is just hogging players and plunging clubs into debt. People complain about wages but what club in real life could survive with over a 100 players on the books?

I have just looked at a club with 56 players in 1st team' date=' 56 in youth and 4 out on loan, a total of 116 players!!!

No club in real life would have a squad size larger than 50 at most.

We will be introducing a cap on squad size of 50 in 1st team and 50 in the youth squad, a maximum of 100. This number will then be reviewed (and likely decreased) in the near future.

This will not mean people will lose any players but they will not be able to sign any new players until their squads have been reduced.[/quote']

I agree with Teb that this is a bad idea and also baffled by how this improves the game.

Looking at your figures you are obviously talking about my FC Porto in GC1. I am hardly plunging my team in debt as you claim and currently have a bank balance of 57 million. The fact is I like others realized early that the only way to get anywhere in this game was to get rid of of my expensive team and reinvested in talented youth to eventually replace them. Then wait for a few youngsters to go up and transfer for a better player. The average age of my 56 1st team is only 24 years old and I have only two players over 30 (Marcelo GALLARDO) and (Skerdilaid CURRI). I only have a mere 4 players on more than 40,000 a week. I bet if you were to look some much poorer teams than mine have more.

If this does as seems likely get implemented then non-managed teams must be much more proactive in the transfer market. Besides as Teb said the people really in debt are the ones who buy and loan cheap older players on unsustainable wages.

Darrell

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Re: Squad Sizes

Bobo - Firstly no need to apologise for disagreeing' date=' this is a forum.

The main complaint for you two guys is the scouting issue. You are saying that it will hinder your scouting of young players. I fail to see how?

What you are doing at the moment cannot be classed as scouting....buying 50 odd youngsters and dumping them in your youth squad is hardly scouting. Scouting involves judging players who will become good players, and so a cap will mean you will have to be better more realistic managers/scouts and only buy players who you believe will become good players not just snapping up every youngster on a wing and a prayer.

Lets get this in perspective a cap of [b']100[/b] players is not really a serious cap at all!

Firstly, It's agreed that 100 players isn't too much of a serious cap, but that's only had it been implemented before the whole game actually started imho (or at least implemented in new setups only). But now, many teams have plenty of players and plenty of cash (Barca - WC110 an prime example) and now cannot buy anymore players or is forced to sell? Doesn't sound too right..

The main complaint for you two guys is the scouting issue. You are saying that it will hinder your scouting of young players. I fail to see how?

See last post - any normal clubs (including youngsters) would have 170 players' date=' so yes, this would be reducing scouting, as you can only have 70 youths, where in real life a top club would have over a hundred with at least half of them coming out as hot prospects :)

What you are doing at the moment cannot be classed as scouting....buying 50 odd youngsters and dumping them in your youth squad is hardly scouting.

No offense, but that really is not a nice comment (although not offensive of anything , so don't take it wrongly :P ). What I suggest is finding the facts of (Barca WC110 as an example) how many players have gone up, and you are guaranteed to find at least 20.. surely that's deemed as good and solid scouting :rolleyes: How can you go wrong with facts from anywhere in your scouting? Forum helps greatly, then a few mins. of your own work and you can sign a player KNOWING he will increase.

Despite me now doubting what I said in the first post, you are way off from influencing me this will be a good idea :P A few suggestions above and made in previous posts would help this idea more imho.

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Re: Squad Sizes

Squad sizes are getting out of a hand. Some squads have over 100 players in the squad which is just hogging players and plunging clubs into debt. People complain about wages but what club in real life could survive with over a 100 players on the books?

I have just looked at a club with 56 players in 1st team' date=' 56 in youth and 4 out on loan, a total of 116 players!!!

No club in real life would have a squad size larger than 50 at most.

We will be introducing a cap on squad size of 50 in 1st team and 50 in the youth squad, a maximum of 100. This number will then be reviewed (and likely decreased) in the near future.

This will not mean people will lose any players but they will not be able to sign any new players until their squads have been reduced.[/quote']

IF we want SM to be as real as possible you cannot put up a squad limit.

Firstsly clubs in real life dont have 50 plus senior players i agree put then do have a reserve team and senior and youth. So in sm's case the reserve and senior team are all in the jsut one Senior squad, maybe should put a reserve squad.

Now about the number of youth i feel that should stay unlimited, as clubs in real life have 100's of youth players. Think about a big team like Ac Milan, has youth team in Italy consisting of 6-8 divisions in the youth league and possibly more. Then that is just in Italy. Ac Milan youth academy is established all over the world in Australia, Europe and many other continents

so it we want to make this game as real as possible the youth number of players cannot have a cap.

Also i have smers complaining the this player is hogging talent and etc. It is fair for that person to have the talent as he has bothered to scout and find bargains and rising stars. E.g Arse Wegner he finds youth and seems to beat other managers to the young scarlets and the FA dont put a cap on that and manay managers complain he hogs youth but he is the one who is scouting and putting the time to get them.

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Re: Squad Sizes

Bobo - Firstly no need to apologise for disagreeing' date=' this is a forum.

The main complaint for you two guys is the scouting issue. You are saying that it will hinder your scouting of young players. I fail to see how?

What you are doing at the moment cannot be classed as scouting....buying 50 odd youngsters and dumping them in your youth squad is hardly scouting. Scouting involves judging players who will become good players, and so a cap will mean you will have to be better more realistic managers/scouts and only buy players who you believe will become good players not just snapping up every youngster on a wing and a prayer.

Lets get this in perspective a cap of [b']100[/b] players is not really a serious cap at all!

I do not buy any non first teamer unless I think they have a genuine chance of increasing in rating. I don't necessarily buy players planning for them to make my first team even, but if i know they will improve i know I have done good business.

You imply it is bad scouting to buy young good players and then just dump them in the youth team. What else would you have us do with them? Playing youth doesn't improve them in SM, and we cant play youth fixtures. I would love to do more with them, but cant.

A cap will mean you will have to be fussier over your targets. But why is this a good thing? If managers wish to gamble they should be allowed to. They will lose some money on some, make money on others.

In my mind, SM has always been a balance of playability vs realism, as it is a sports simulation game.

In reality clubs have huge networks of players, feeder clubs, youth divisions, scouting systems, none of which SM have (or even should have) so I think the realism argument is moot as this is a game and will never be totally realistic, especially in the area of players possessed by clubs - this goes out the window the first time a transfer is made in any set-up.

Playability wise I think essentially the idea is poor as it limits manager freedom. I can name several managers who will find their teams adversely affected by this change, and can name none that will benefit. By and large the people that complain are simply green with envy.

One of my teams for instance is supported solely on the basis of buying cheap players who are going to increase. I then sell them on and make money to buy better players, in a constant upwards spiral of asset building. This involves having a large squad. I do this, as have a small ground, but having had them for several seasons have built a 92 average rated squad. No way could I support them without constant asset building. I get the odd manager PM'in me saying 'what! why you have such a big squad you idiot?' but I just reply asking why shouldn't I and tell them how I did it, and most reply saying 'wow, sorry, that's cool, you did that without cheating? Great team!' or similar.

A tiny number of managers abuse the system and just buy everyone (manager in my setup bought all the 10k players he could afford and had 260 players for a 3rd div side i think) but this person is either very clever or very stupid depending on whether he knows his stuff. What does it add to the game to stop him being able to have this choice? Sure, I am not thrilled at him having about 10 players i would like, but he got there first, and there are hundreds of other viable targets.

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Re: Squad Sizes

Firstly, I am not trying to insult anyone regarding scouting. ;)

Again you are stating that clubs have 100's of players in youth squads around the world. How many of these players are on the db? Most of these players fall by the way side and do not make it in professional football.

What we are suggesting is have a limit on the number of professional players at a club, we do not have the resources or need to start adding 14 year olds onto the db, with ratings of 40 odd, then removing them when they are released!! :D

100 players still leaves plenty of room for scouting.

As you have just given an example of someone abusing the system with one manager buying 260 players!! A cap needs to be introduced for technical reasons just as much as realism and fairness reasons. A manager could potentially buy 1000 players and then it would take up huge amount of resources on the site to display the squad/tactics page etc slowing the site down for everyone else.

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Firstly' date=' I am not trying to insult anyone regarding scouting. ;)

Again you are stating that clubs have 100's of players in youth squads around the world. How many of these players are on the db? Most of these players fall by the way side and do not make it in professional football.

What we are suggesting is have a limit on the number of professional players at a club, we do not have the resources or need to start adding 14 year olds onto the db, with ratings of 40 odd, then removing them when they are released!! :D

100 players still leaves plenty of room for scouting.

As you have just given an example of someone abusing the system with one manager buying 260 players!! A cap needs to be introduced for technical reasons just as much as realism and fairness reasons. A manager could potentially buy 1000 players and then it would take up huge amount of resources on the site to display the squad/tactics page etc slowing the site down for everyone else.[/quote']If the issue is a technical one, then I think squads should be capped at the size the system is physically able to handle, rather than blurring it with the issue of playability and realism. If it was so necessary technically, am confused at how managers are physically managing large squads now.

Managers will never be able to have 1000 players imo. They would not be able to buy that many on any starting balance, and the debt they incur in one season would mean that any prize money would not bring them back into the clear to buy anyone else.

Was not suggesting for a minute that SM should add loads of 14 yr olds etc to the db, I am saying that in the absence of this some managers want to be able to plan years into the future and the only way of doing this on SM is to either spend big money on better known players, or speculate on low rated potential players. Having played SM for a while, I have gone through the phase of buying quick hits, progressed to looking at underrated players, before moving further into 'scouting' and looking at the potential players that exist on the DB. With scouting as it is in SM, what more can I do?

The people with large squads are 9/10 the managers who are financially sound as Darrel mentioned earlier - his Porto team is great both on and off the pitch.

Sure, the 260 squad is daft imo, but that is that manager's choice, surely? He will reach a point where he either succeeds or fails on his choices. That is the gamble he takes when making decisions, and that is one of the gambles that football management should be about!!

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Re: Squad Sizes

Newer playurs in teh older setups & GCs r at disadvantage becuz so many plauyrs r bein warehousd by guys with older teams.

Searchin 4 87-88+ playrs (never mind 90s) then tryin 2 get guys 2 respond 2 bids is no joke.

If guys are so keen on realism, look at teh top leagues IRL -- any decent playr at a top team will push 2 leave as soon as tehy r not gettin a regular game.

Guys hav come out & said tht like any wargame, 1 way 2 win is 2 deny any opponents resorces, if u own a playr, some1 else cant.

i respect teh guys doin hardcore scoutin, pickin & follwin playr from very low ratins, but i think even 100 in squad is probly 2 much. Move them on, as teh top teams do -- playrs eithr make teh grade or r sold or released.

respect 2 teh scouters, resorce hoggers nsm.

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Re: Squad Sizes

Firstly' date=' I am not trying to insult anyone regarding scouting. ;)

Again you are stating that clubs have 100's of players in youth squads around the world. How many of these players are on the db? Most of these players fall by the way side and do not make it in professional football.

What we are suggesting is have a limit on the number of professional players at a club, we do not have the resources or need to start adding 14 year olds onto the db, with ratings of 40 odd, then removing them when they are released!! :D

100 players still leaves plenty of room for scouting.

As you have just given an example of someone abusing the system with one manager buying 260 players!! A cap needs to be introduced for technical reasons just as much as realism and fairness reasons. A manager could potentially buy 1000 players and then it would take up huge amount of resources on the site to display the squad/tactics page etc slowing the site down for everyone else.[/quote']

I agree with a limit on senior squad

but not youth as i have 107 youth players

as ive looked through them and most have go up from 70s to 80 and more are on their way so its unfair to single out people who seem to scout young players and find future gems.

But reading what you the tech team have written you guys seem to have decided on a limit long before even posting on the forum

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Re: Squad Sizes

what would be a good idea ( i think) is having feeder a parent clubs

(YES THE IDEA IS KNICKED FROM FM 07)

basically you ask the club dpending what league you are in ~example~ im Manchester United in an eng setup i have boguht lots of young players that have a rating of around 80 but there not going to get games at my club so.............

You can offer an invatation to a club ( 2 divisons lower or below) to ask them to become a feeder club if they say yes then......

Everytime a player is loan listed/ or put in the youth team ( im not sure how but im not einstein) then he is offered to that club on loan they then decide if they want him on loan if so they put the amount of turns and the deal is completed

This happens regulary in real life with Man Utd as they loan many players out to Royal Antwerp per season this benefits both clubs as Antwerp get decent players and a sum of money for taking them on loan and Manchester United are benefitted by having there young players gaining much needed 1 st team expereince

I think this would make the game more realistic than having a player cap

Whats your opnions ??? ( please reply as this is my LONGEST EVER post) :o

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Re: Squad Sizes

Newer playurs in teh older setups & GCs r at disadvantage becuz so many plauyrs r bein warehousd by guys with older teams.

Searchin 4 87-88+ playrs (never mind 90s) then tryin 2 get guys 2 respond 2 bids is no joke.

If guys are so keen on realism' date=' look at teh top leagues IRL -- any decent playr at a top team will push 2 leave as soon as tehy r not gettin a regular game.

Guys hav come out & said tht like any wargame, 1 way 2 win is 2 deny any opponents resorces, if u own a playr, some1 else cant.

i respect teh guys doin hardcore scoutin, pickin & follwin playr from very low ratins, but i think even 100 in squad is probly 2 much. Move them on, as teh top teams do -- playrs eithr make teh grade or r sold or released.

respect 2 teh scouters, resorce hoggers nsm.[/quote']

Any team with a stockpile of high 80's players (87+) is not going to have the sort of squad size we are talking about. They may have say 20 of them, but the rest will be low rated players.

The older teams you have referred to will most likely have started off as you did, with small teams. They didn't get them by chance. So, a new player has the same option of beginning to invest, and 3 seasons down the line could have a comparable squad if they wished. You cant really blame them for not selling their best players for anything less than insane prices, but that is another issue really.

I like the idea of the feeder system ryan, more so than the cap by far, as it adds something tangible for players of the game and would be an optional feature that nobody would be forced to take.

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Re: Squad Sizes

yer most of my team is made up of 70s players which their wages are nothing

10-15 of 70 rated players equal one 85+ old player in wages

i am very against this cap.

Why dont we also cap how much teams can spend each year and how many players they can sell also

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