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ian neller

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  1. Re: Official Aston Villa Thread ! * no spoilers * Remember Rio Ferdinand at United? Stayed and is loved by those supporters. Bit silly to compare him of all people. Has never wanted to play abroad joined the biggest team in english football ,got hiself a premiership medal in his first season ,guarenteed Europe every year ,one of the highest earners in the Prem ,surely going to another English club would have been a step backwards . Dont think his decision to stay took long especially if it meant taking a big pay cut .
  2. Re: ATTENTION: The Scousers Have Been Brainwashed!
  3. Re: ATTENTION: The Scousers Have Been Brainwashed! Lets just take a reality check here on what this thread started about or is supposed to be about ,we Scousers or non scouse LFC fans are accused of being brainwashed by Rafa ,which is supposed to mean we havnt the foresight and our own mind to see what is happening in front of our own eyes with our club /team ,know for ourselves if our club as gone forwards or backwards under him or is just stagnated, so were supposed to be like rabbits in front of a cars headlights and completely transfixed on everything he does ,so the belief is because were backing him he has done no wrong and everything he is doing is Golden . Sorry but to me its nonsical for them with this perception ,and the reason why he is supposed to be such a failure and should have us craving for the exit door is he has been here 5yrs and we havnt won the Prem . First of all managers EVEN THE BEST STILL make mistakes and im not putting Rafa on this Pedestal yet he is a mere youngster compared to Fergie in managment who is considered right up there on the top with the greats in fact he is classed as a great and why shouldnt he be ,but at the same time were not Supporting Rafa because we think he is better or as good as Fergie because that would be silly at this moment in time . Fergie has nearly 20yrs more experience on Rafa in managment and that can account a great deal especially seems all his knowledge as player /manager is our British way of playing . Wonder if he had gone to say Spain in the same conditions Rafa took over us would he have won theirs in 5yrs because its totally diff experience altogether,then does that mean he is a failure ,seems that is actually the benchmark we are using ,not if the team is progressing and going forwards but that in 5yrs he hasnt won the title . Forget about you telling us or other opposing supporters on here of failed players etc because all managers are guilty of this in the past ,now and in the future ,also we can also disagree on who or what players we deem were failures by the clubs /managers in question ,as well as not forgetting there are many reasons why unless a british player dont fit in ,so i would say buying more oversee players is also a higher risk factor . Heres a small list . 1. Dont get on with new team mates when arriving . 2. Good relations with manager when come but break down at a later stage and become unworkable for one reason or other. 4. Language /Cultural barrier. 5. Differnt type of football ( more physical etc ,didnt realise its worse than they thought ) 6. just not good enough ( but even in many of these cases your not going to know until theyve experienced it ,with some go in one season ,others a bit longer ,others actually take two seasons to settle etc and become very good,but theres no magic formula to tell anyone who will or will not ,thats why many come with high expectations of whats been seen of them in their continental leagues ,flop here for reasons above mentioned as well as proberly a dozen more that members can throw into the pot ,but then most have a great success story when going back . We are not saying everything he does is rosy and we would follow him like " Lemmings over a cliff he he took us that way" Im not brainwashed at all by him or anyone else ,but for the yrs ive followed the Pool i would be a " Lemming " if i didnt see how improved the teams changed since he arrived and the progress we have made on the big 3 especially with a lot of old players in the team and seasons that had been ending with a 25-39 point gap and we were going ever more backwards down a steep hill with no brakes . Ive followed the Pool since the 60s and have seen the way football itself has changed and evolved since these times ,and in all honesty i think its far harder now to win the Prem under circumstances of today than it was when we were ruling the roost . Would Shanks ,Paisley ,Clough etc if were managers now have done what they did in todays conditions of a manager ,personally to me yes but again the way it has evolved and the instant demand by the new breed of owners ploughing money in ,ripping up the clubs assets and wanting instant glory its a question that can never have a answer because its a hypothetical situation . So lets go back to when he arrived and lets say take the last two seasons to see if we had a team that was actually on the way of being a force . 2002/3 1.United 2.Arsenal 3.Newcastle ( ) 4.Chelsea 5.Liverpool. 19 points adrift of United and lost 10 games ,drew 10 games. 2003/4. 1.Arsenal 2.Chelsea 3.United 4.Liverpool 5.Newcastle . Gone up one place yes but how decieving ,32 points behind Arsenal ,yet 17 points behind United just above us ,so to say he must have been inheriting a great side and didnt have much work cut out compared to the gap with the big 3 above far from it,in fact its the oppisote it shows the monumentous task he had to do to catch up ,also the 3 above were not just going to stop improving theirselves ,and they had 3 off the best managers in the world so no mugs . Players like Hyypia and Murphy and Kewell cannot be coveted as bad players at the time. But even these have been shifted (obviously Hyypia) but why couldn't they stay as they were and perform, whilst Benitez found his cheaper options elsewhere. Decent fullbacks (Finnan and Riise no mugs) so that when he had that stability he could then force the issue with his middle 4, like Ferguson was doing at the time. You could say Benitez tried, but he has clearly failed with his fringe players. The guys he has brought in have not been good enough by any stretch of the imagination. Mistakes that would not have been given the time of day at another club. You complain at the board behind Benitez but the fact that he has been given so long, is a so called blessing. My argument, is could someone better, been given the same amount of time. Don't forget, Ferguson has built 3 or 4 different squads since the Premier League began. At this time, Ferguson was in the process of rebuilding another. Keane was at the end. Ruud soon followed. That defence had to step up to first team material, where they weren't before. Yet Rafa's side were a Champions League winning side, that weren't close to challenging on a domestic front... How flawed the above is ,just shown you the gap widening both seasons prior to Rafa comming and your telling us he should have given these a chance because we had some good ones ,well in fact he didnt replace the whole team so some got their chance you said they should have got . IN: Scott Carson Fernando Morientes Mauricio Pellegrino Antonio Nunez Xabi Alonso Luis Garcia Josemi Djibril Cisse OUT: El Hadji Diouf Stephane Henchoz Antonio Nunez Michael Owen Danny Murphy Markus Babbel Yes we won the Champions league that year but for them that thought this meant we was the best in Europe and had been transformed into a fantastic / breathtaking team its them that must have been " Brainwashed " more than us LFC fans who knew it was a big job still on and the proof was the league standings in his first season . 2004/5. 1. Chelsea 2. Arsenal 3. United 4. Everton 5. Liverpool Same top 3 ,we are Champions of Europe but now 37 point gap from the Prem winners . Lost 14 that season What this tells us is what a great job he did with the team he inherited and the few players he fetched in to be European champs but as far as Domestic and the big 3 the rebuilding process had just started and wasnt going to be an instant fix . 2005/6 1.Chelsea 2.United 3.Liverpool He has closed the gap from 37 points with his new signings and the ones he got rid of from 9pts. And for the first time since 2003 our games lost was out of double figures ,it was 6. 2006/7. 1.United. 2. Chelsea 3. Liverpool . Back to double figures lost 10 games and 21 points adrift of United ,yet lost in the Final of the Champions league again ,yet at this time besides Parry interfering in transfers ,the owners at a big rift with each other ,wanting to get rid of Rafa ,our accusation as fans to him and it wasnt hidden is he placed more importance with his rotations and selections on European success and didnt realise its the Prem title we would sacrifice for any other . But saying this it wasnt no secret that from day one of arriving its the money from Europe success and the selling of players to raise cash that would be the only invested in any future purchases he wanted to improve the side and this sometimes was shown false by the club owners . 2007/8 1.United 2.Chelsea 3 Arsenal 4 Liverpool Only lost 4 games in fact it was less than United as was Chelsea /Arsenal draws cost all 3 of us ,but seems Fergie claimed this was the greatest side since he has been at United then from where Rafa started to lose less than this side must be a side improving not stagnating or declining . So what happened the following season against this greatest side Fergie has had . 2008/9 United. Liverpool Chelsea Arsenal We only lost 2 and again its less than a United side which Fergie classes the best ever and im certainly not going to say its not and Fergie has lost his marbles and for those of you that think he is correct are " brainwashed " He has been in charge of United since 1986 knows our game inside out is a brilliant manager ,and in your own words Ferguson has built 3 or 4 different squads since the Premier League began. So he must know what he is talking about in this case seems he rebuilt them all So how because Rafa hasnt won it yet he has had long enough and is a faliure . Last Two seasons lost 4 and 2 . Do you know since the premiership first started and we are in its 18th year its only been won 7 times by teams losing 4 games or less ,10 times by teams 5 and more ,so in just 5 yrs he has actually hit this target now in the last 2 seasons ,SO RATHER THAN A BAD MANAGER ,BAD BUYS ETC AND WHERE BRAINWASHED IS IT THAT WE CAN SEE PASS ANY BLINKERS AND THE GARDEN GATE SO WE REALISE FORGETTING ABOUT THE INTERNAL WRANGLINGS WITHIN THE CLUB WITH THE OWNERS RAFA ITSELF CAN ALSO BE CLASSED AS UNLUCKY BECAUSE HE IS PITTING HIS SELF IN THIS LEAGUE AGAINST A MASTER WHO KNOWS THIS LEAGUE AND WHAT IT TAKES TO WIN IT AND AGAIN IN THE MASTERS WORDS THESE LAST TWO SEASONS WE CAME UP AGAINST THE BEST SIDE HE HAS HAD IN 23YRS. Both these seasons we had thrown at us we are a 2 man team " Gerrard /Torres" yet when checking this best United team in 23yrs :rolleyes:it also showed the massive difference without Rooney /Ronaldo on United results last season ,but the big diff is they still played far more together than our pairing who only played 16 times alongside each other last year because of injuries . Yet we were the highest scoring side with 77 goals and according to most if led to believe only have Torres who missed loads of games ,yet we had the most players who accrued 10 or more goals this season because Torres/Gerrard missing most games ,wow is it bad managment that any players suffer injuries and miss most games or just really bad luck because if they had played most games all season the 4 point gap may easily have been far different . United last year with this great side kept the most clean sheets and while doing this for a period set a new record of 14 consecutive clean sheets between November 2008 and February 2009. What a season to do it in for Fergie ,Rafa having one of his best seasons since comming here and this shows why Fergie puts them up on that pedestal . Yet what about Rafa and LFC last season . Liverpool allowed their opponents fewer shots on target than any other team. Liverpool recouped the most points from losing positions last season Liverpool’s total of 86 points is their best ever haul in Premier League history. Liverpool became the first team in top-flight history to lose only two games and not win the title. So take the last 2 ,why are we brainwashed thinking he is not as good as what we think ,set a record for points tally and because of things i pointed out already why he is so unlucky to be the first manager not to have won it . Now im proberly going to get yep but what about all the flops he has bought even though all managers have them . So lets just say taking all what some consider the flops into the equation how bad a job he has done in his time ,so lets just say he hadnt been given a penny by the owners so his rebuilding and closing a massive gap had to be done with the collatrel in hand which is the players that were here on his arrival. Players bought by Rafael Benítez Josemi Rey Malaga £2,000,000 26.07.2004 Antonio Nunez Real Madrid £1,500,000* 17.08.2004 Xabi Alonso Real Sociedad £10,700,000 20.08.2004 Luis Garcia Barcelona £6,000,000 20.08.2004 Mauricio Pellegrino Valencia Free 05.01.2005 Fernando Morientes Real Madrid £6,300,000 13.01.2005 Scott Carson Leeds United £1,000,000 21.01.2005 Antonio Barragan Sevilla £240,000 04.07.2005 Boudewijn Zenden Free Transfer Free* 04.07.2005 Jose Reina Villareal £6,000,000 04.07.2005 Mohamed Sissoko Valencia £5,600,000 14.07.2005 Peter Crouch Southampton £7,000,000 20.07.2005 Miki Roque Lleida Unknown 15.08.2005 Jack Hobbs Lincoln City £150,000* 18.08.2005 Besian Idrizaj LASK Linz £190,000* 22.08.2005 Mark Gonzalez Albacete £1,500,000* 20.10.2005 Paul Anderson Hull City Player Exchange* 01.01.2006 Jan Kromkamp Villareal Player Exchange* 04.01.2006 Daniel Agger Brøndby £5,800,000 12.01.2006 David Martin MK Dons £250,000* 12.01.2006 Robbie Fowler Man City Free 27.01.2006 Craig Bellamy Blackburn £6,000,000 01.07.2006 Gabriel Paletta Club Atlético Banfield £2,000,000 04.07.2006 Fábio Aurélio Valencia Free 05.07.2006 Jermaine Pennant Birmingham £6,700,000 26.07.2006 Dirk Kuyt Feyenoord £9,000,000 18.08.2006 Nabil El Zhar St Etienne £200,000 21.08.2006 Astrit Ajdarevic Falkenberg £750,000 11.01.2007 Daniele Padelli Sampdoria On Loan* 12.01.2007 Jordy Brouwer Ajax Undisclosed* 24.01.2007 Francisco Durán Malaga £66,000* 30.01.2007 Álvaro Arbeloa Deportivo £2,500,000 31.01.2007 Javier Mascherano West Ham On Loan 20.02.2007 Lucas Leiva Gremio £5,000,000 11.05.2007 Krisztián Németh MTK Hungaria Undisclosed 25.05.2007 Mikel San José Domínguez Athletic Bilbao £270,000 28.06.2007 Sebastian Leto Club Atlético Lanús £1,800,000 01.07.2007 Fernando Torres Atletico Madrid £20,200,000 04.07.2007 Andriy Voronin Leverkusen Free* 06.07.2007 Yossi Benayoun West Ham £5,000,000 12.07.2007 Ryan Babel Ajax £11,500,000 13.07.2007 Charles Itandje Lens Undisclosed 09.08.2007 Emiliano Insúa Boca Juniors £1,300,000* 26.08.2007 Martin Skrtel Zenit St Petersburg £6,500,000 11.01.2008 Javier Mascherano Media Sports Investment £18,600,000* 29.02.2008 Philipp Degen Dortmund Free* 03.07.2008 Andrea Dossena Udinese £7,000,000 04.07.2008 Diego Cavalieri Palmeiras £3,500,000 11.07.2008 David N'gog Paris St Germain £1,500,000 24.07.2008 Robbie Keane Tottenham £19,000,000 28.07.2008 Albert Riera Espanyol £8,000,000 31.08.2008 Glen Johnson Portsmouth £17,500,000 26.06.2009 Alberto Aquilani AS Roma £17,100,000* 07.08.2009 Sotirios Kyrgiakos AEK Athens £2,000,000 21.08.2009 Daniel Ayala Sevilla £160,000 17.09.2009 Rafael Benítez bought 55 players for £228,976,000 Players sold Markus Babbel VfB Stuttgart Free 16.07.2004 Danny Murphy Charlton £2,500,000 10.08.2004 Michael Owen Real Madrid £8,500,000* 14.08.2004 Stephane Henchoz Celtic Free 28.01.2005 Vladimir Smicer Bordeaux Free 13.06.2005 El Hadji Diouf Bolton £3,500,000 15.06.2005 Mauricio Pellegrino Alaves Free* 17.06.2005 Alou Diarra Lens £2,000,000 23.06.2005 Mark Smyth Unknown Free* 01.07.2005 Paul Harrison Unknown Free* 01.07.2005 Richie Partridge Unknown Free* 01.07.2005 Patrice Luzi Unknown Free* 01.07.2005 Gregory Vignal Portsmouth Free* 01.07.2005 Igor Biscan Panathinaikos Free* 01.07.2005 Jon Otsemobor Rotherham United Free* 01.07.2005 Antonio Nunez Celta Vigo £2,000,000* 29.07.2005 Milan Baros Aston Villa £6,500,000 23.08.2005 John Welsh Hull City Player Exchange* 01.01.2006 Josemi Rey Villareal Player Exchange* 02.01.2006 Zak Whitbread Millwall £200,000 13.06.2006 Bruno Cheyrou Rennes Undisclosed 29.06.2006 Robbie Foy Unknown Free* 01.07.2006 David Raven Carlisle Undisclosed 03.07.2006 Fernando Morientes Valencia £3,000,000 05.07.2006 Dietmar Hamann Bolton Free 11.07.2006 Antonio Barragan Deportivo £675,000 03.08.2006 Djimi Traore Charlton £2,000,000 09.08.2006 Carl Medjani Lorient Free 12.08.2006 Neil Mellor Preston £500,000 30.08.2006 Jan Kromkamp PSV Eindhoven £1,750,000 31.08.2006 Darren Potter Wolves £525,000* 18.01.2007 Stephen Warnock Blackburn £1,500,000 22.01.2007 Salif Diao Stoke Free 25.01.2007 Florent S.-Pongolle Recreativo de Huelva £2,700,000 04.05.2007 Daniele Padelli Sampdoria Returns from loan 08.06.2007 Danny O' Donnell Crewe £100,000 13.06.2007 Jerzy Dudek Real Madrid Free* 01.07.2007 Boudewijn Zenden Marseille Free* 01.07.2007 Robbie Fowler Cardiff Free* 01.07.2007 Luis Garcia Atletico Madrid £4,000,000 03.07.2007 Djibril Cissé Marseille £6,000,000 09.07.2007 Craig Bellamy West Ham £7,500,000 10.07.2007 Mark Gonzalez Real Betis £3,500,000 17.07.2007 Gabriel Paletta Boca Juniors £1,200,000* 26.08.2007 Chris Kirkland Wigan Ath. £3,500,000* 27.10.2007 James Smith Stockport Cou. Free 28.12.2007 Mohamed Sissoko Juventus £8,200,000 28.01.2008 Lee Peltier Yeovil Free* 31.01.2008 John Arne Riise AS Roma £4,000,000 01.07.2008 Harry Kewell Free Transfer Free 01.07.2008 Anthony Le Tallec Le Mans Undisclosed 02.07.2008 Peter Crouch Portsmouth £11,000,000* 11.07.2008 Danny Guthrie Newcastle £2,250,000 14.07.2008 Scott Carson WBA £3,250,000* 18.07.2008 Steve Finnan Espanyol Undisclosed* 31.08.2008 Robbie Keane Tottenham £16,000,000* 02.02.2009 Jack Hobbs Leicester Undisclosed 24.04.2009 Astrit Ajdarevic Leicester Free 30.06.2009 Paul Anderson Nottm For £250,000 30.06.2009 Jermaine Pennant Real Zaragoza Free* 01.07.2009 Miki Roque Unknown Free 01.07.2009 Sebastian Leto Panathinaikos £3,000,000 01.07.2009 Álvaro Arbeloa Real Madrid £3,500,000 30.07.2009 Xabi Alonso Real Madrid £30,000,000 05.08.2009 Rafael Benítez sold 64 players for £145,100,000 So without say any cash injection he is actually running at a 83,000 loss . Now like i pointed out earlier ,look at the bulk of the ones he sold ,over 80% were not his so not his fault if didnt get the money back that had been invested in the first place . Again look at this equation which when the Sky experts and Paper Morons throw up about he has bought 60 players in 5yrs when its actually 5 less they dont mention he has also sold 64 and they miss out the fact over 80 % were nothing to do with him . But to clear this ammount out whether he bought them or not tells you like we already knew at this time before Rafa came how bad we were . Didnt need brainwashing by anyone to know this we knew ourselves the results in the Prem and never getting into group stages of Europe hardly alread confirmed this at the time . Therefore if the 80 % of players he hadnt bought had been worth their salt in Gold then 83 mill may have been even far smaller than this . So in reality just taking the buying and selling above if you then take into account how much he has made ever year in the Champions league for the club he must have easily surpassed this defecit . If you take the ones he has bought above 90% are still here and quite a few he has fetched in for the Academy and hopefully future prospects . Yet he is accused of not giving youngsters a chance ,but he has only got control of the Academy last season wheras Wenger /Fergie go way back to putting theirs in place with who they want staffing it etc ,etc . Its alright saying there must have been some but i havnt seen any since he came to just step in ,( yep but you need to give them a chance ) thats great if your not comming to the club with the expectations you have just given that if its not done in 5yrs then youve failed and everything ive pointed out is not taken into the equation . Rafa last year got control of all footballing matters just like Fergie /Wenger ,so now below the first team he gets to approve as well any decision in which staff go and which staff replacing with . He bought youngsters since he came but not overhappy with what was going on at the Academy and Melwood and to him not quality enough or ready for first team . Under Heighway etc even though done a brill job He thought it had stagnated and reason why it wasnt fetching through what it should . So Frank McParland was appointed academy director . Because of his Spanish links he went and appointed Jose Segura as Academy technical manager. Now for them like me at the time who has never heard of him he comes with a coaching CV boasting success at both youth and first-team level with FC Barcelona, where he was involved with both their youth system and Barca B team. His role with the Catalan giants saw him help develop players of the calibre of Andres Iniesta, Victor Valdes, Gerard Pique, Bojan Krkic, Cesc Fabregas and Mikel Arteta. He won both the Greek championship and Cup with Olympiacos FC in March 2008. He decided to leave the club after the end of the season, despite winning two titles to join Rafa in his Academy revamp. The under 18 he has just appointed a new coach "Rodolfo Borrell" he actually joined Barcelona in 1996 and spent 13 years with the La Liga giants, making significant progress through the ranks of the Catalan's youth coaching system. Rodolfo coached all age groups from under-11 to under-17 level at the Nou Camp, where he worked alongside the now appointed Liverpool's Academy technical manager Jose Segura,so Rafa as just fetched these two together again . Rodolfo has also helped develop well-known Barcelona players past and present such as Lionel Messi, Gerard Pique, Cesc Fabregas, Bojan Krkic and Giovanni Dos Santos, as well as many potential stars of the future, including Liverpool's own Daniel Pacheco. Also not forgetting he has just recruted Kenny Dalglish to help with this side of things then he needs time for the project he has just started to take shape ,because its not even been going just over a year or more with him starting the ball rolling on how he wants it and thats why the get Rafa out brigade actually need to allow him to see what he has started pans out . We all know what great in depth Squads United /Chelsea have and Wenger itself we already know he has proberly a great scouting network more than them two and far better than us at the mo ,and look how long he has been at Arsenal ,not forgetting him and Fergie are far older than Rafa been at their clubs 4/5 times in yrs longer than Rafa so already has been proved they are not a project thats just in its infancy like Rafa has just started for the future of ours,them two clubs are already fetching some great youngsters of the belt and have been for yrs under these managers . Nope with all the above i know its nothing to do with im brainwashed ,i know we are making strides forward under him and to think of whats been happening internally since he came it cant just be ignored because the others havnt been working under these conditions so it does play a part even though them outside of LFC supportes dont see it this way . Whats so funny we get it rubbed in to us season after season its nearly 20yrs so if anything you would think after 5yrs we would say no good get rid ,wonder if its because since 1992 all the way to 2005 we have been in the dark and never had a team to challenge but now we can see daylight and yes Rafa may not be here when we finally win it or lets say "if" because the way the Club is run and we may finish up doing a leeds . Take the future he is trying to build ,just look at what now is our top 11 and if all stayed fit would match everyone else if all stayed fit ,then look at the ages only Carra is over 30 ,Aurellio /Benayoun/Kuyt/Riera and Gerrard around 28-30 mark ,Reina 26 and the rest are 25 and under ,compare this to the ages and quality he inherited ,then if the Academy takes shape under the new structure just put in place then it would be silly now to get rid of the best manager we have had since Kenny left . At the mo with 95% of reds in Rafa we trust ,and ive seen nothing on here that shows we have started going downhill up to now like i did under Shanks ive seen things going forward . Maybe not as quick as a small percentage of some reds and 90% of those that dont support us ,but what the heck lets just say everything ive said and shown isnt true its all a dream. OH NO IVE BEEN BRAINWASHED .
  4. Re: ATTENTION: The Scousers Have Been Brainwashed! Dont mind being corrected on that small matter:D But i cant take all the accolade of what ive posted ,ive used other resources in my post so ive split it into two and the Red is from the other but also ive used it because i totally agree with it .
  5. Re: ATTENTION: The Scousers Have Been Brainwashed! Because he is the manager of Liverpool and is still in employment and why shouldnt he be seems he is doing a great job for the time he has been here . So lets see your version on why he shouldnt . Yep i cant understand why you compare him because its totally unfair and even from the beginning of Prem ,Money and owners etc have changed football drastically . Lets see why i think me and the main bulk of our Fans are still loyal to Rafa even though it seems to upset them more that dont even support us . Will take Arsenal out of the equation because Wenger in this period done no better than Rafa ,so lets see besides getting to know the English game how the two clubs that have only won it in these 5 yrs differed from then. United Squad when he came . Goalkeepers Lopez Felipe Ricardo, Fabien Barthez, Roy Carroll, Tim Howard Defenders Rio Ferdinand, Philip Neville, John O'Shea, Mikael Silvestre, Gary Neville, Wesley Brown Midfielders Quinton Fortune, Nicky Butt, Jos� Pereira Kleberson(from 08/12/2003), Darren Fletcher, Mark Lynch, Eric Djemba-Djemba, Roy Keane, Kieran Richardson, Danny Pugh, Paul Scholes, Ryan Giggs Forwards Cristiano Ronaldo, Ruud Van Nistelrooy, Diego Forlan, Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, David Bellion Not to bad only need tinkering . Chelsea , Goalkeepers Ed De Goey, Carlo Cudicini Defenders John Terry, Celestine Babayaro, Wayne Bridge, Robert Huth, Marcel Desailly, Glen Johnson, William Gallas, Mario Melchiot Midfielders Boudewijn Zenden, Claude Makelele, Joe Cole, Juan Sebastian Veron, Joe Keenan, Emmanuel Petit, Frank Lampard, Mikael Forssell, Sorele Ndjitap Fotso Geremi, Mario Stanic, Enrique De Lucas Forwards Jesper Gronkj�r, Hernan Crespo, Adrian Mutu, Eidur Smari Gudjohnsen, Carlton Cole, Jimmy Floyd Wow not bad with both dont you think ,so surely a great manager like Rafa should find winning the Prem simple especially with the Squad he took over . Liverpool . Goalkeepers Jurek Dudek, Chris Kirkland, Patrice Luzi Defenders Carl Medjani, Stephane Henchoz, Jon Otsemobor, Steve Finnan, John Welsh, Djimi Traore, Sami Hyypia, Salif Diao, Jamie Carragher Midfielders Dietmar Hamann, John Arne Riise, Danny Murphy, Bruno Cheyrou, Steven Gerrard, Igor Biscan, Vladimir Smicer Forwards Michael Owen, El Hadji Diouf, Anthony Le Tallec, Milan Baros, Florent Sinama Pongolle, Harry Kewell, Emile Heskey, Richie Partridge Yep not much work to do there by he must be rubbish. Lets see in these 5yrs he has just passed the 200 game benchmark yet as LFC manager has won more games than either Ferguson or Wenger did, and indeed, Liverpool's two greatest managers, Shankly and Paisley. Indeed, Benítez is 27 wins better off than Ferguson over the first 200 fixtures. (I know times have changed, but you still need to be top class to post 114 wins in your first 200 league matches,ESPECIALLY MORE SO WITH THE RUBBISH NEARLY ALL HIS BUYS ARE ACCORDING TO YOU ..) When he first came to LFC and youve seen the team ive just shown he would have needed most of this season to SEE some of them so could even find out if they had what it takes to fit in to the way he wanted . He thought even though won the Champions league that year through out the club it needed a major rebuilding there were between 50-60 from first team down to reserves ,academy etc he thought were not the quality needed and had to go . So for starters, Benitez has sold 39 players bought by other Liverpool managers. He cannot be held accountable for selling a player at a loss when he was not the one who identified the player as a target in the first place or sanctioned the over-inflated transfer fee when the player was first purchased. You can only really judge him on the players he has bought and sold since he has been at the club and this brings the true figure down to just 17 players. Profit: 7 Carson +2.25, Barragan +0.43, Sissoko +2.6, Crouch +4.0, Gonzalez +2.0, Bellamy +1.5, Nunez +0.5 Loss: 6 Garcia -2.0, Morientes -3.3, Palletta -0.8, Josemi (swapped for) Kromkamp -0.25, Idrizaj -0.19, Keane -3.0 (could be even less depending on contract triggers) Even: 4 Pellegrino, Zenden, Fowler, Padelli (all four players were brought in and moved on for a free transfer) So the true extent of Rafa’s failings in the transfer market is just six players from 17; coming with a loss of just under £10 million within four and a half years—the most expensive loss being just £3.3 million; nothing like the losses achieved by other established Premier League managers who manage to avoid the media abuse storm. Yet even though i agree he has made some bad buys who dosnt if it means you cant do a Chelsea at the time or City this season and just go out and buy the best . Your going to make mistakes when having to upgrade the way he has ,but also can you blame a manager if when players come he dosnt take to the Club,Climate change ,Cultral diff ,Our physical game etc,etc . Some of these so called failures were actually good in there own familiar surroundings before comming ,and some have done pretty well since left . Well for one thing Liverpool have nowhere near the most expensive squad in the Premiership. Indeed, there are three clubs who have spent at least 50 per cent more on their current squad than Liverpool. Shocked? But it's true. And one of the clubs is not a name you'd necessarily expect. It doesn't help if you just focus on Rafa's gross spend, rather than the net amount. Effectively, this means counting all the right-backs he's bought as one big outlay, rather than looking at how he's replaced one with another for roughly the same £2m fee. Working with just the gross spend, you add the £2m of Josemi to the £2m value of Kromkamp (even though it was a swap), to the £2.6m paid for Arbeloa. But none of these players were at the club at the same time, and each was traded to get to the point where an outright success was secured, as happened with the final purchase. So even though the total cost of getting Arbeloa was just the £2.6m paid, people will use a figure almost three times as high. That is illogical. When Rafa came and had to just about do a complete overall AS IVE POINTED OUT AND SHOWN THE SIDE AT THE TIME ,he didnt have the finances like Chelsea WHO were slinging around just like Man City now ,United first team was already established ,therefore Rafa yes may buy one biggish name but for the rest of money have to use it just like the housing market:, you don't just go in and buy a mansion straight from school. (Okay, so maybe some footballers do, but not the normal people of this world. As someone stuck with renting, I'm speaking generally here!) You start with an affordable house; you then use the money from selling that to buy your next property. Most people can only get to own a big house having traded their way up over a number of years. Yet when someone asks how much you spent on your house, you don't add all the houses you've ever bought together, do you? If you own a £220,000 house, you don't say £470,000 because you add the £90,000 starter home and the £160,000 step up. That would be moronic. According to the excellent and reliable www.LFCHistory.net, Rafa's gross spend is approximately £188m, but his net spend is only £108m, given that around £80m has been recouped. (I'd hazard a guess that a large proportion of the £108m net spend has also been recouped through Champions League progress rewards, particularly with the Reds being the top-ranked team based on his five-year tenure.) So it's easy to pluck a figure of SAY '£195m' from the air,and make it seem like that should make a team champions, or ultra-close challengers. But it's only the cost of the current squad that counts. Because that's all a manager can choose from; he can't go back in time and select a player he sold in order to trade up, just as you can't just turn up to one of your old houses and let yourself in. You simply cannot add Rafa having spent £5.8m on Sissoko to the £18m on Mascherano, because the two were never part of the same set-up; one was bought and sold for a profit, and as with a house, the money reinvested in a step-up. If Sissoko isn't bought and then sold, Mascherano probably doesn't arrive. Is that really too tough to grasp? The most expensive squads (excluding players out on long-term loan) are as follows: Chelsea £207m Manchester United £206m* Spurs £188m Manchester City £140m Liverpool £127m So what does this tell us? Let's start with the leaders. United's squad contains the most home-grown players, such as Giggs, Scholes, Neville, O'Shea, Brown and Fletcher, who all arrived for free. So that shows that it is a long-established core supplemented by a lot of expensive signings added one by one to a unified collection. In other words, classic, spot-on building of a squad when already established at the very top. But it shows that even if you work with the unfair use of Rafa's gross spend, it still doesn't match what Ferguson has spent on his current squad, let alone those who have been bought and sold for record fees in the past. And this is utterly, utterly critical, and beyond the grasp of some people who cannot analyse things with common sense. After all, what does it matter how much Rafa has spent since 2004 if Ferguson is currently and were fielding players like Ferdinand (£30m) and Ronaldo (£12.8m) who were bought before then? Isn't Rafa – in the real world – competing with a team whose construction started well before he arrived? Unless Ferguson is banned from fielding players like Ferdinand and say at the time Ronaldo (which would be illogical), or forced to start from scratch in 2004 (again illogical), it is not a fair comparison, is it? After all, how much as Harry Redknapp spent since he took over at Spurs? I make it almost £50m. How much has Rafa spent since Harry Redknapp took over at Spurs? Nothing. But only a nutter would compare the two in this deeply skewed way. Rafa has been in his job about five times as long as Harry, so you obviously wouldn't dare compare their teams. And yet Ferguson has been in his job about five times as long as Rafa, and yet the Spaniard is expected to have Liverpool as champions by now. Chelsea and Spurs are actually the more interesting examples in many ways. I knew Spurs had spent a lot, but to have a current squad that cost almost £200m , Add together the cost of Bentley, Pavyluchenko, Palacios, Bale, Defoe, Bent, Keane and Modric and you more-or-less end up with the cost of Liverpool's entire squad. I could be sarcastic – or media-style sensationalistic – and say that with that much spent, any manager should be able to win almost all of his matches, but it wouldn't be fair or logical. It's far more complex than that, and even a good manager like Redknapp has his work cut out. Of course, this analysis doesn't include wages, either. You don't get the very top players in the world without also having to pay them a king's ransom. Michael Ballack must be most expensive free transfer ever, with wages reported to be around £130,000 a week, or about £30m over five years. Again, Liverpool are no way near the highest payers, either. Hence why United etc can usually get players that LFC were after which has happened . Just say out of our Squad now i picked 11 and compared to that 2004 , Reina, Johnson, Agger , Skyrtel, Insua . Mascherano , Lucas, Gerrard, Benayoun, Aurelio, Torres . How many still in ,just one "Gerrard" the only one missing is Carra ,then also besides it being a far superior quality side take a gander at ages . Only 3 over 25 yrs so officially not even in the prime yrs which is supposed to be 28-32. Thats why Rafa isnt a faliure i think he knew he didnt have the finances to buy the league so he is doing the best from an inferior position he is slowly building ,hence the ages of the core of LFC Squad now . Made me laugh on Sunday when you got all the Paper know alls sat around the table on sky ,they said in one statement Rafa cant keep using the owners as an excuse for the lack of money because he still has spent and players werent good enough ,yet in another they said when Moriniho was asked if he was interested in LFC if it got offered would he take it ,his reply was no how can you manage when both owners dont agree and have different agendas. Then they all sat there agreeing with his reply stating what top manager with any commonsence would be manager in that kind of set up . How fickle Rafa cant blame the gaffers yet who has been working in these conditions and could have taken the easier option especially after winning the European league when others wanted him hence the silly owners lining up Klinsman behind his back . Nope what Rafa has started is not finished and we can see progress even though its not as quick as you other guys would like so its get rid . Well were not deluded and think in todays times its a quick fix ,Villa fans again now think MO is the best thing since slice bread ,yet he had his get rid as well as Wenger just of late . Nope if we were stagnating under Rafa all well and good but were not . Mostly all knee-jerkism to getting rid of him isnt from lfc fans itself ,if you really know the game and its changes from my days then thinking has to be long-term, not short-term. Yes Rafa may not win it he may finish up just being the builder but wheras some managers will never have what it takes to win the world's biggest trophies, or even simply win more than a poor percentage of games as a manager. (These are the qualifications of critics, though.) Benítez and Wenger, with major league titles and in Rafa's case, a European Cup, certainly do. Fergie is getting on 70 ,Wenger about 60,wheras Rafa is only 49 regarded as a great manager already so he is a youngster compared to these . Nope we havnt been brainwashed ,we are more intelligent and know because of who we were dosnt mean we will be that again ,but we know of the internal struggle Rafa has had from day one . By the way i know some say certain players of ours are not good enough to win the league ,but again they have still been good enough to keep us in the top 4 and make us since Rafas arrival the most Succesful British side in Europe over the last 5 yrs . Well this apparently is what also gave Rafa his 100 mill to buy some of our top players who without this we may never have got and been even in a worse position ,so in a way these have helped the club because they may not have been good enough to win us the league but theyve still been better than you lot still behind us and fetched that money into the coffers which proberly outweighs anything he lost on the odd few ..
  6. Re: Official Red Devils thread I think we can go tit for tat on what we thought about the ref,personally i dont think he was that bad and the bulk of calls he got right especially the ones that seem to be causing the moaning about him . Carra on Owen he was not if he had got past fairly last man through on goal with a great scoring oppurtunity which is what you get a RED for otherwise its a yellow . Vidic was the same situation so thats why he got yellow its the two yellows conbined that got him sent off ,and the first was warrented. Carra on Carrick for penalty deciscion ,this he got correct Carra got the ball first and it was a one footed challenge not two so he hadnt gone in with the intesity of taking the player if he hadnt got the ball ,the ball was the intended target which he got first. Now to prove my point is you all watch your team enough "i hope " and you know how your players always react not just one but 3 to 4 when they dont like a Refs decision and especially in their eyes if got it wrong . Well from your lads especially Carrick not a murmer,whimper or any intention of an uprising ,this to me is not because they have become virtuous and are advocates of the respect campaign its because they knew Carra got the ball so didnt make a meal of that decision . Others less important a couple would get in his face like norm yet not for this ,unusual to say the least . Nope the only one that baffled me was the early Berbo one i still cant see why so anyone that does please enlighten even me the ever know all . Nope i think over the last few weeks Fergie is passing the buck away from Uniteds own failings and short commings this season,because your team itself just the same as ours compared to last season is performing under par on a consistent basis up to now. Yes we dont have your Squad depth but that to me has not been the root of our probs because like against Chelsea away and you yesterday thats the only time we have really this season shown in games what we were doing in most last season which got us so close to the title . When our teams meet dosnt matter if ones been playing good or bad that usually goes out the window as it did yesterday . We were up for it from the off ,Lucas and Mascherano getting into everyone very quick and sharp cutting and closing things down rapidly all match. Rooney must of thought he may have to ask for an oxygen mask because he wasnt given the air to breathe Johnson itself was more disiplined didnt get caught playing up front to much ,Torres kept Vidic /Rio problery further back than what they would like normally . Nope like last season i think at the mo Rafa has the measure of United Tactitally and knows how to stop the flow of your game and impose ourselves more which hadnt happened in the first couple of seasons when he arrived and you 9/10 came out on top . Nope not the ref or his decisions that cost it for you ,besides Rafa getting it tactically right our players seemed one step ahead of yours of wanting it ,not bad seems we get told often enough only a couple of ours would get in your team but a lot of yours in ours .
  7. Re: If (heavens forbid!) Liverpool loose again should Rafa be sacked? Example: Shankly was the Liverpool manager for 15yrs,in this time he won three league titles, two FA Cups and a UEFA Cup . (Major Silverware 6). Bob Paisley 9yrs manager ,but also 15yrs right hand man to Shanks . (Major Silverware as manager 13). League titles 6 ,European cup 3,Uefa cup 1,Football league cup 3. Arsene Wenger been at Arsenal going on nearly 14yrs ,won 3 prem titles and 4 FA cups. (Major Silverware 7 ). Alex Ferguson been at United about 24 yrs , Prem 11 titles ,FA Cup 5 ,League cup 3,Uefa champions league 3,Uefa cup winners 1,Fifa world club 1. (Major Silverware 24 ). Now take the latter Sir Alex in terms of yrs compared to Bob Paisley , In same yrs as Paisley he only actually racked up 6 Now if you also look at this compared to Rafa . Rafa now 5yrs . (Major Silverware 2) 1 Champions league ,1 Fa cup . Fergie first 5 yrs at United , 1 FA Cup ,1 UEFA Cup Winners' Cup ( similarities not to much differnt ) Same thing was happening then the get Fergie out was rampant because he had been 5yrs and not a title in sight and the team looked as though nowhere near because playing very indifferent. Yet it was in his 7th year that Fergie gave them what they had craved for the last 26yrs. What say like now with Rafa if it happens and they had got rid of Fergie after 5 , would United have dominated and become what they have now under other managers . What the above shows is if you cant just rely on multi millionaires and buying a title then where do you define the manager has stayed to long ,because all the above to achieve what they did had far longer . Rafa came we were on the decline we were going nowhere ,getting more and more points behind what was regarded as the top 3 . United ,Chelsea and Arsenal . Even our great European record was dismall . Yes our Squad is not as great as the others due to bad signings ,not enough money like others etc ,give as many excuses as us fans want ,but to me i look at it the same i did when Shanks came and started the process of rebuilding a failing team and club ,five yrs on have we stagnated well in Shanks case no but also in Rafas case no We havnt won the Prem but we got very close last year ,our Europen record is now i think the best amongst the top 4 since his Arrival . We lost less games than United in the last two seasons which hasnt happened in about the last 10:eek: so seems they won it both it stands out draws lost us this in both seasons ,and if we had the depth of the United Squad which dont forget started before Rafa came we may have been not having this debate because we may have had Two Prems instead ,at the same time if we had the same in depth Squads in dosnt mean we would have had either ,its all if and buts plus excuses . Nope if we had become stagnant then i usually say time to go ,but with the changing face of football unless there are 50 chosen ones out there running around and we get owners like City ,Chelsea and he dosnt have to wheel and deal for most players like he does now having to sell before buying i think he deserves far more than 5yrs ,after all losing to United at Anfield i dont believe is something like Halley'sComet which means once in a blue moon ,it has occured very often and not unusual,to keep getting that same score line as our result at OT last yr will be more on Halleys commet line .
  8. Re: SMFA Keep Blocking A Deal??.. Been playing this game now for around 4yrs ,i have 32 teams and 7 accounts . I have had the SMFA in all these yrs block no more than about a dozen deals . Now i can assure you since day one i am whiter than white so why should mine of been blocked at all . Well seems i know i dont cheat i decided to experiment with my transfers and any i accepted or bid just over the minimum price no probs what ever with Chairman or SMFA but those i was accepting stupid overpriced bids for and also offering them then Chairman stepped in first time but if carried on again around this price then SMFA . In all fairness the complaints that arise on Forum and what most said about there deals i would say this part like it did me played the biggest part in stopping deals between honest playing managers with SMFA interference . But SM have corrected this part and transfer market now is the simpliest its ever been. Nothing hidden you can not put in a bid unless you meet the set price given. Now as well to save Chairman rejections you get told also what not to bid over,therefore the SMFA not Chairman only steps in for what it deems unusual . Since this has been put in and ive kept within its boundries ive never had a rejection at all so SMFA interfering with innocent bids over the top now shouldnt happen with a minimum and max shown in the process . Now for the SMFA to block deals and not Chairman to me it now means its not the transfer deal money etc its because of the hidden factors it picks up between the clubs or managers . Now these are very numerous but like i pointed out in 4yrs all mine were for overpriced which do not happen now so it dosnt see anything in my bids within the min or max ,so i know members can still say i dont share ip with mates at school /work /each others houses etc but trouble is we can only on the Forum take your word for it and in 98% of cases they have cheated. But now you cant overbid to me its got to be the latter type for SMFA to have stepped in . Nothing any forumer can do in these situations than say sorry forget the deal it wont happen and try elswhere .
  9. Re: Alberto Aquilani (will he successed or will he flop) He is not in the Italian side because he has been out with injuries so much ,but the talent /skill etc if he is fit can not be underated and just dismissed . Two major gambles by Rafa on him especially with the 20mill price tag which if both go topsy turvy then he will get crucified for 1: Premiership football not all take to it and are succesful thats why when some members call other managers players flops it ammuses me ,yes some are bad buys but others that are classed as bad buys is actually the players not managers fault ,its a gamble/risk factor etc by all managers buying players not accustomed to that league . 2: Injuries to me is what im more concerned about than the first one above ,i think if he can stay injury free when he is available and not become riddled or seem to stay riddled and be a sicknote then he will be a great asset .
  10. Re: Who should Liverpool sack? My answer to this is we need a change of ownership and need to keep Rafa ,to give you my reason why i need to go back into the history of the other top 3 clubs that have been dominating so long . United: Were all told what a great manager Fergie is and who am i to disagree with the pedigree he has ,some say he isnt and was lucky that when he joined in 1986 and after 5 yrs was on the brink of being shown the door ,but a certain Cantona ( he decided was the missing piece and bought ) was going to be the missing catalyst that was going to change all that for Uniteds future and Fergies just as in 95 when team needed a overhall but if it werent for the "kids that will never win anything" ( Alan Hansen ) that season he may have been sacked if Hansen had been proved correct . But he stuck by his guns and his future and Uniteds were now going to go into overdrive . I can stand corrected if i am wrong but he started in 1986 and never won it when it was the old Division 1 the turning point was actually with the start of the Prem . ( 6yrs ) no title . Arsenal: Wenger came in 1996 and actually won it the very next season ,then he went nearly 4yrs 2001–02, 2003–04 has been his only other titles . ( 5yrs ago ) Chelsea : The owner was the turning point for this club Took control in 2003 and didnt believe in rebuilding ,just went out and bought two teams ,he leaves building and putting things together to them that like lego sets . It worked Chelsea won it the following two seasons . 2004/5 and 2005/6 So Chelsea for all the Money they have spent and all will agree Squad depth is better than ours have won it twice ,you go back to 1954–55 when last winning a title . So putting all the above in context i put myself in the same boat as any other LFC fan who thought with the comming of the Americans and the wealth we got told they had ,we were going to do a Chelsea to get the title just like Man city this season going to try it . Well it didnt materalise and when Rafa come he had to start a rebuilding process against two of the biggest clubs that have dominated the prem ( Arsenal having to put up with a few runners up behind the great United sides ) and both these had well established squads and far better youth policy than us . Well he has started team rebuilding process its getting stronger each year and hes changed the whole Academy around to how he wants it and now hoping it will benefit him in the future just like it does already with United and Arsenal . Well Wenger has now been the longest serving Arsenal manager ,Fergie been at United since 1986 and when both had barren spells some of their own fickle supporters keep wanting there heads on the chopping block time after time . Season before last when Fergie got the big two he said he thought it was the best United side ever under him ,well when Rafa came we were about 30 ISH points behind theses top sides and for costly silly draws last year may have actually lifted it ,so seems Fergie rated it the best United side all time under him it tells its own story on how far Rafa has come . If we had lifted it the pathetic owners would have been Swanning all over the place and saying what a great manager and tactician he is ,so now because of the start its pass the buck to Rafa instead of admitting how the owners itself have lost there love of each other and are ruining the club from the inside itself . Fergie and Wenger are two great managers well established to the English game but both are getting old ,67 and 60 respectifully . Rafa is only 49 one of the youngest and giving them a run for there money now and great European success which we wernt before he came ,so because of age i dont think we need to panic because time is on his side to come good . Anyway if you got rid of him who are you going to replace him with ,they would be taking over the Squad in place and seems its not as good as the others they would have to spend big to compete if you wanted it instant ,so if not getting the Chelsea ,City money backing will need to do the same and rebuild all over so again may not fetch success and in 5yrs will be saying on Forum if you dont get rid of so and so you wont win nothing . Well you cant live in the past we may not win it for yrs even by changing Rafa ,times have changed big time and at least even though its not quick enough for some fans and the owners ,we are getting closer and Wenger and Fergie older ,once these go who is to say if they will then be a dominant force .
  11. Re: International management for all free members! Been on the Forum for yrs so must disagree with this ' date='made plenty of invisible mates on here discussing and debating all sorts of stuff on different boards because a Forum isnt just about adressing what you see as SM mistakes ,its just a place if Members want to come together and make new friends you can like or dislike your playing experience it makes no diff . I have certain aspects i dont like since playing SM along the way ,we all will we like differnt things that SM fetch to the table but the Forum itself you make of it what you will . Some members only come on to voice their displeasure wheras many come on to get involved in debates ,discussions and make friends just like i have and many others . For what displeasures some members then yes the Forum still finds a place for this and them using it the place is "suggestions and improvements ". Disagree again ive been going to footie games since 1965 and i always see female supporters at them and its not just because they are shackled to their husband /boyfriends and have no choice ,many females like soccer and know just as much as a lot of males and go to the games because they like and are loyal just as much as any male ,so even though you can have that opinion please keep that type of remark of forum in future because its not needed . Anyway ive cleared some posts up so lets keep to what the thread is about ,so i will give my opnion now .
  12. Re: New tactics page Nah they didnt i was correct So it wasnt done and dusted at the time some of you like usual were just impatient and didnt allow them any leeway.
  13. Re: I'm sick of Soccer Manager...its not fair! If you dont like the engine now think of us some of us 4yrs ago and yes it slowly does get improved its not something i believe is very easy and a quick fix because some of what you complain about needs fixing and wrong with it i actually dont agree otherwise i and others wouldnt have stuck it out 4yrs. Also before i found SM i played most of the other rivals and i can tell you now they were no where near as good as SM and not EVEN now . You take the size of the free members that play SM if the other browser games like this were so far better they would be off LIKE A SHOT nothing to hold them back . Yes it has its faults but the others games have far more and less enjoyable playability factors . To the people tired of SM... have fun finding a better browser-based management game Other member with this remark hit the nail on the head ,because that is human nature and reality ,if there was one the few moaners wouldnt still be playing and moaning now they would have gone over to the other and not had second thoughts about SM ,they would have found a better one they liked and just moved on as happens in life .
  14. Re: Official Red Devils thread On target he was ,he aimed for the wall and hit it ,then an unseen force from another dimension made the ball take a wicked deflection of the poor defender ,teach him to call the outer limits.
  15. ian neller

    Chat Up Lines

    Re: Chat Up Lines Hey "dreamboat" then if another one turned around thinking i ment her and wasnt a stunner then change it to " not you shipwreck "
  16. Re: ABOUT NEW SET_UPs If its all about the money then why is it the free members by far outweigh the Gold members . A lot of SM closest rivals you cant even play free and them you can you have a very limited on these sites main version where you have to pay to get the main features ,plus their games nowhere as good as SM if they were most wouldnt be playing this for free but the others few free versions .
  17. Re: Official Cricket Thread Havnt seen any today been busy ,but according to Jack bannister on talk sport it was a lottery for Batsmen and who ever came out first was going to be unlucky without knowing it . Thinks the pitch will get reported not fit for International cricket ,and the other teams in the other group play on it tommorrow . He says Semi and final if we get through are both played in Pretoria so far better .
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