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cheekylad68

Luis Suarez is gay

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Re: Luis Suarez is gay

Not really. People who spout such nonsense in their daily lives deserved to be treated with the upmost comtempt. How can two people loving each other be a sin? It's completely absurd. I'd like somebody to point out to me where in the bible it says Homosexuality is wrong. Actually give me a direct quote. If there is one' date=' i'd withdraw my religious morons statement and change it to brainwashed morons.[/quote']

utmost contempt??..for disagreeing with your views on tolerance?

You probally missed my last ( ish) post , i personally feel pretty ambivalent to Homosexuals

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Re: Luis Suarez is gay

•Lev. 18:22' date=' "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."1

•Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"

•1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

•Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper[/quote']

Bloody hell (pun intended) and i went to a Catholic school. What a load of rag. Still doesn't excuse people being swept up by a text written a couple of MILLENIUMS ago.

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Re: Luis Suarez is gay

Did you read the debate that followed?

I did not mate, I can only recall the statement that he made.(maybe link me the thread via PM?) But if you took what he said and then read all the comments on this thread, he has got a point.

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Re: Luis Suarez is gay

utmost contempt??..for disagreeing with your views on tolerance?

You probally missed my last ( ish) post ' date=' i personally feel pretty ambivalent to Homosexuals [/color']

That wasn't aimed at you. It was aimed at the people in here earlier and folks like the ones you see in California with matted, dirty hair and lice ridden clothers waving a banner about protesting against Gay marriage. It's ok to be uncomfortable with it as long as you accept it really has nothing to do with you and it'd be better to get on with your life without it unduly troubling you.

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Re: Luis Suarez is gay

That wasn't aimed at you. It was aimed at the people in here earlier and folks like the ones you see in California with matted' date=' dirty hair and lice ridden clothers waving a banner about protesting against Gay marriage. It's ok to be uncomfortable with as long as it you accept it really has nothing to do with you and it'd be better to get on with your life without it unduly troubling you.[/quote']

I know :)

Harris..I did not mate, I can only recall the statement that he made.(maybe link me the thread via PM?) But if you took what he said and then read all the comments on this thread, he has got a point.

http://forum.soccermanager.com/showpost.php?p=1932659&postcount=151

It was one of Infernito's fellow jack boot wearers (:P) but the sentiment is the same :)

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Re: Luis Suarez is gay

He isn't. Or at least I have no proof that he is;)

But what if he was?

Seeing as more and more people are trying to encourage Gay footballers to 'come out' how would YOU feel if your star player came out tomorrow and said he was Gay?

Would your views of him change? Would you like him less? Would you still want him playing for your team?

Many folk feel that 'Homophobia' is still very strong in this day and age' date=' but imo it is only 'very strong' with silly off the cuff comments (such as Macheda and Morrison posted on Twitter) from uneducated idiots.

Many have no issue at all with it, and as long as it doesn't interfere with my life/wellbeing then they can stick it wherever they blooming well like.:o

Imo IF gay footballers were to come out I couldn't envisage the vitriol toward them being any worse than some are subjected to from the crowd now.

*This is not a 'gays aren't natural' etc etc thread, this is merely a thread for expressing if your views would change were your star player ( or any player for that matter ) to 'come out'.[/quote']

Can't see it bothering anyone -except maybe some sponsors and their marketing people-unless of course you need a stranger who kicks a ball between sticks to model your life on, but that might reflect deeper personal issues :o

Not sure when Entertainment became Life replacement..

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Re: Luis Suarez is gay

I really don't think that Religion should come into it' date=' In the 21st Century people should be more tolerable, I actually hate religion being brought into arguments, people not have there own opinion? You have to follow religion to the letter? I guess your the same people who will avoid pre-marital bow chicka wawa ;) Or the guys who go church every week? Or the guys who follow the bible word for word, if you did you wouldn't survive nowadays, things have changed and religion is the minority now.

Anyway I don't think that my opinion would change if Suarez or whoever said he was gay, if he plays well on the pitch he can do what he wants in his own time. Anybody who thinks homosexuality is worse than cheating on your wife needs there head checking.

Homosexuality is a sin, ha were in the future now guys. There choice shouldn't fuss anyone.

And Cheeky of all players to pick you pick the one with the wife and kid, and the Liverpool player ;):P[/quote']

Just wanted to get a few things off my chest.

A number of things with this post just don't seem right.

You seem to be generalising all Christians (I assume Christianity, as you mention the Bible and Churches) by the behaviour of a certain few. I doubt you will find any two Christians that share the same views on every subject, hence there are many denominations each with different doctrines and interpretations of the Bible.

You suggest that fundamentalist Christians "wouldn't survive nowadays," how is that so? I'd also suggest you gather some reliable information, as the majority of people on the earth ARE in fact religious. Religion is far from the minority.

Homosexuality and adultery are considered immoral, by most religions and by a large number of atheists. I've not seen anyone attempt to rank them, however if they did I don't see how they require their "head checking," but you must have reached a point where you feel threatened by anyone with a different view, and you would tell them that there is something wrong with them (hence they must check their head).

I'd say we are living in the present, as opposed to "the future now," but I'm not sure what grasp you have on reality.

Anyhow...

Despite the intentions of Cheeky and others, this thread has declined from hypothetical debate about football into a debate between morals, ethics and religion. I apologize for dragging it on further, but there seems to be a lot of people attacking some people for religious beliefs, which doesn't seem fair.

I've said a few times that I'd happily support homosexual players on a football field, but outside of the sport I wouldn't support them in their behaviour. If they asked me for my opinion, I would tell them how I feel about homosexuality, and why, but I wouldn't attack them for it.

On this thread it seems to be acceptable for some to tell others they are out of order for their disapproval of homosexuality, and then attack someone about their religious beliefs. As for some calling me "out of order," I don't go out of my way to attack others for their beliefs (unlike some). I'd explain to them why I feel like I do, and I would pray for them.

I don't see how I (or others) am out of order for stating my view on homosexuality (that it is an abomination) when I am not telling others how they should think, and yet I am being told that I am "embarrassing," and that my opinion is "full of hate,". Really?

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Re: Luis Suarez is gay

it never was' date='is, and will be '' right '' to be a gay or lesbian

it will always be a freakin disgusting SIN[/quote']

you realise the church that came up with your 'morals' are full of kiddy diddlers, have perpetrated some of the worst most heinous crimes, started wars, killed thousands of innocents all in the name of 'god'. The morals that you spout on about may have been relevant two thousand + years ago when the bible was written but have no place in modern society. Want some more info from your bible,

Sexism within the bible (it's not a women's place to be better then a man)

Children must obey their father on pain of death

An Eye for an Eye is acceptable punishment for many crimes as stated by the bible

Greed is a sin (yet the Catholic church is currently the richest organisation in the world)

You can see that religion has no place in modern society simply by looking at the USA, they are one of the only 1st World countries with 3rd world socio-economic figures, directly correlatable to religion.

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Re: Luis Suarez is gay

Just wanted to get a few things off my chest.

A number of things with this post just don't seem right.

You seem to be generalising all Christians (I assume Christianity' date=' as you mention the Bible and Churches) by the behaviour of a certain few. I doubt you will find any two Christians that share the same views on every subject, hence there are many denominations each with different doctrines and interpretations of the Bible.

You suggest that fundamentalist Christians "wouldn't survive nowadays," how is that so? I'd also suggest you gather some reliable information, as the majority of people on the earth ARE in fact religious. Religion is far from the minority.

Homosexuality and adultery are considered immoral, by most religions and by a large number of atheists. I've not seen anyone attempt to rank them, however if they did I don't see how they require their "head checking," but you must have reached a point where you feel threatened by anyone with a different view, and you would tell them that there is something wrong with them (hence they must check their head).

I'd say we are living in the present, as opposed to "the future now," but I'm not sure what grasp you have on reality.

Anyhow...

Despite the intentions of Cheeky and others, this thread has declined from hypothetical debate about football into a debate between morals, ethics and religion. I apologize for dragging it on further, but there seems to be a lot of people attacking some people for religious beliefs, which doesn't seem fair.

I've said a few times that I'd happily support homosexual players on a football field, but outside of the sport I wouldn't support them in their behaviour. If they asked me for my opinion, I would tell them how I feel about homosexuality, and why, but I wouldn't attack them for it.

On this thread it seems to be acceptable for some to tell others they are out of order for their disapproval of homosexuality, and then attack someone about their religious beliefs. As for some calling me "out of order," I don't go out of my way to attack others for their beliefs (unlike some). I'd explain to them why I feel like I do, and I would pray for them.

I don't see how I (or others) am out of order for stating my view on homosexuality (that it is an abomination) when I am not telling others how they should think, and yet[i'] I[/i] am being told that I am "embarrassing," and that my opinion is "full of hate,". Really?

Totally agree with you . Everything .

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Re: Luis Suarez is gay

you realise the church that came up with your 'morals' are full of kiddy diddlers' date=' have perpetrated some of the worst most heinous crimes, started wars, killed thousands of innocents all in the name of 'god'. The morals that you spout on about may have been relevant two thousand + years ago when the bible was written but have no place in modern society. Want some more info from your bible,

Sexism within the bible (it's not a women's place to be better then a man)

Children must obey their father on pain of death

An Eye for an Eye is acceptable punishment for many crimes as stated by the bible

[/quote']

As usual an aggressive atheist cherry picks the bible ( it could equally be any religious text) to highlight contentious quotes to his own advantage. Have you ever considered applying a little context to the bible ( koran etc)?, or is progressive interpretation not allowed when it comes to faith?. Now whilst you may wish to ignore the first three, where do you stand on the other seven?, they still sound pretty good to me :)

You shall have no other Gods but me.

You shall not make for yourself any idol, nor bow down to it or worship it.

You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God.

You shall remember and keep the Sabbath day holy.

Respect your father and mother.

You must not kill.

You must not commit adultery.

You must not steal.

You must not give false evidence against your neighbour.

You must not be envious of your neighbour's goods. You shall not be envious of his house nor his wife, nor anything that belongs to your neighbour.

Greed is a sin (yet the Catholic church is currently the richest organisation in the world)

Quantify this please?, do you mean income?, or the value of art, buildings etc ?

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Re: Luis Suarez is gay

Gee just seen this thread.....what a load of tripe spoken :o

On the actual subject it would not make a blind bit of difference to me. I would happilly cheer on said player and be fully supportive of him. TBH I think I would have more respect for him having the courage in what is a disturbingly ignorant industry in terms of fans to come out and admit to who he really is.

Does it have any affect on his footballing ability...not at all, would it chnage the way I view him not at all. We are all grown adults and can behave act, fall in love whatever with who we want. It makes absolutely no change to my view of said person as an individual, all you can do is be who you are.

The only gay footballer bar Justin Fashanu I know who has come out is the former Liverpool defender Glen Hysen's son but he plays in Sweden which is much more liberal and tolerant. I really dont think it should be an issue but given the moronic nature of so many fans I can understand why a footabller would be scared to "come out".

I went to Brighton V Crystal palace earlier this season and the amount of homosexual chants from the Palace fans was insane. To be fair some of them were funny and not really offensive in my view such as "does your boyfriend know you're here" but some overstepped the mark which I wont repeat, gladly I am able to say when Liverpool visited the Amex i was there and we didnt engage in any of that but really it is all a matter of where is the line??

Im a Catholic and a member of my Family is Gay, we dont disown said person or think any less of them I am incredibly proud of them for being brave enough to be themselves in such a discrimatory world. one of my best mates is Gay all the stereotypes are complete rubbish but im afraid within the environment of the football world and the vitirol you will probably be subjected to in most grounds it is perfectly understandable why any footballer wouldnt want to deal with the hassle from the stands etc

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Re: Luis Suarez is gay

Gee just seen this thread.....what a load of tripe spoken :o

In a similar vein : I think its quite clear from a footballing perspective ( and that was the starting point of the thread) sexuality/ colour etc rightfully makes no difference at all. Sadly what is equally clear is the ease which many attack those who take a different view of homosexuality off of the pitch. I'm saddened how (clearly) faith has became an easy and acceptable target for puerile abuse and mockery nowadays.. :)

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Re: Luis Suarez is gay

As usual an aggressive atheist cherry picks the bible ( it could equally be any religious text) to highlight contentious quotes to his own advantage. Have you ever considered applying a little context to the bible ( koran etc)?' date=' or is progressive interpretation not allowed when it comes to faith?. Now whilst you may wish to ignore the first three, where do you stand on the other seven?, they still sound pretty good to me :)

You shall have no other Gods but me. (On pain of death)

You shall not make for yourself any idol, nor bow down to it or worship it. (On pain of death)

You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God. (On pain of death)

You shall remember and keep the Sabbath day holy.

Respect your father and mother. (On pain of death)

You must not kill. (On pain of death)

You must not commit adultery. (On pain of death)

You must not steal.

You must not give false evidence against your neighbour.

You must not be envious of your neighbour's goods. You shall not be envious of his house nor his wife, nor anything that belongs to your neighbour. (On pain of death)

Quantify this please?, do you mean income?, or the value of art, buildings etc ?[/b]

-

"The Vatican's treasure of solid gold has been estimated by the United Nations World Magazine to amount to several billion dollars. A large bulk of this is stored in gold ingots with the U.S. Federal Reserve Bank, while banks in England and Switzerland hold the rest. But this is just a small portion of the wealth of the Vatican, which in the U.S. alone, is greater than that of the five wealthiest giant corporations of the country. When to that is added all the real estate, property, stocks and shares abroad, then the staggering accumulation of the wealth of the Catholic church becomes so formidable as to defy any rational assessment."

"The Catholic church is the biggest financial power, wealth accumulator and property owner in existence. She is a greater possessor of material riches than any other single institution, corporation, bank, giant trust, government or state of the whole globe."

Call it cherry picking if you like (not that it's hard since the bible is probably more than a third filled with heinous, hate filled text), but it's nothing that the church hasn't been doing for centuries, in-fact they spurt rubbish about love and tolerance while promoting violence and hate, citing the bible as a 'love' filled document, when in fact it has no place in modern day society. You can try and justify it any way you like or try and interpret it but the black and white truth is there for all to see, funnily enough even the church has started to realise that some parts of the bible are heinous, and have removed parts with each new update.

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Re: Luis Suarez is gay

In an ideal society it wouldnt matter about a players sexuality but I have no doubt that anyone who came out now would do nothing but receive abuse from opposing fans and even some of their own fans. Their lives would become a living hell due to something they have no choice in deciding anymore than someone can choose the colour of their skin.

Religion is just one of the convenient ways some people like to hide behind their prejudice.

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Re: Luis Suarez is gay

Sorry but I just can’t accept that, you are making the fundamental mistake of ignoring the differences between the Old and new testament. Going out on a limb here, but in effect the OT confirms the power of God ( and how to worship him), the rights to existence of the people of Israel ( its civil laws) and most importantly the promise of a new covenant ( of laws) to follow in the teachings of Jesus Christ, the new testament. The differences between the two are marked, but in essence the new testament teaches that the path to salvation is through forgiveness, peace and love as shown by the example of Jesus Christ. I suspect much of the ‘black and white - heinous, hate filled text’ you talk of emits from the OT, but when considering its purpose and when it was written that’s hardly surprising.

Whilst the importance of the OT varies widely between the denominations within the wide umbrella of Christian faith, i instinctively question its usefulness and look to the NT to define the essence of Christianity. The NT should be viewed as how to take the first steps to salvation namely by following the example of Jesus Christ, that does not mean we cannot interpret it in a modern sense, and in turn apply it to a modern society. I have little difficulty accepting that it is right to follow the spirit of what Jesus not the letter of what Jesus taught. It a great disservice to the bible (OT/NT) if it is not viewed literally and figuratively and not to do so ( in my opinion) represents a misunderstanding of the message of the gospels.

All this happily returns us to the whole question of Homosexuality , as I stated earlier whilst I do not consider such behaviour as normal ( and I'm sorry but i doubt(?) I ever will), I firmly believe that there is a place for us all within God. In my long and boring life I have meet far too many Homosexual people who are simply brimming with Christian virtues to doubt this.:)

I read with interest your facts(?) on the wealth of the Vatican, don't get me wrong I am not a Catholic, in fact I was raised in a house hold where the term Catholic was considered a dirty word. Its not a church i could ever belong to, I question its stance on far too many core issues for that. That said in regards to its financial value I'd ask you to again apply some context. It represents over a billion people and has been around for 2000 (?) years. How many priests does it train and pay for?, or children does it feed, cloth, educate and shelter. As I said I often question the Catholic church , but i have no doubt of its magnificent work around the world, for to continue for another 2000 years it has a responsibility to remain financially solvent so is its accumulation of its wealth wrong?. :)

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Guest drseanfitz

Re: Luis Suarez is gay

It always baffles me how those that call for acceptance and tolerance attack those with opinions different to their own. To describe someone whose religious beliefs consider Homosexuality as a sin as a ''religious moron '' is in my opinion way out of line.

very much agree...

but the post below sums up what is likely to happen' date=' irrelevant of what we say here.

In an ideal society it wouldnt matter about a players sexuality but I have no doubt that anyone who came out now would do nothing but receive abuse from opposing fans and even some of their own fans. Their lives would become a living hell due to something they have no choice in deciding anymore than someone can choose the colour of their skin.

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