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Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres


Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres  

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

well' date=' van persie was injured alot last season,

torres played 36 matches and scored 14 league goals, so 0.38 goals a match

van persie played 21 matches and scored 11 league goals - so 0.5 goals a match.

van persie has a better strike rate :rolleyes:

and danny, rosicky cost 6.8m, not 12m ;)[/quote']

lol exactly lol look at the facts and you see the right answers ;) That put you to bed i rest my case VP better

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres Morientes didnt adapt to the style in England' date=' look at shevva, you dont always get it right. Aurelio...nice words of facts there - "not good". Hmm...

Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres Everybody's going to be biased towards their own players, that's just natural as a fan, but you can't compare two players from two different countries, who hav

Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

Bergkamp - 7.5 yep your right :)

Wiltord - 13 million actually' date='club record

Jeffers - 8 million total flop but when he was at Everton he scored 20 goals in 60 matches and was the fox in the box!!...didnt turn out :(

Rosicky - 12 million

Sagna - 6.5 million

Walcott - yes 5 raising to 12

Pires -6 million for a winger who scored 62 goals.

Eduardo - 7 million

Apart from Jeffers imo all them were very good deals and here are a few amazing ones -

Anelka - 500k 65 apps 23 goals. sold for 22.3 million.

Viera - 3.5 million...dont really need to explain the amazing CM.

Toure - 150k ... now one of the best CBs in the game.

Fabregas - Undisclosed but its meant to be around 200k and now R.Madrid want him for 25 million....

Eboue - 1.54 million and now is a starter in Arsenal's squad and Ivory Coast's.

...simply amazing if you ask me :D and this is his record -

[b']

* FA Premier League (3): 1998, 2002, 2004

* FA Cup (4): 1998, 2002, 2003, 2005

* FA Community Shield (3): 1998, 1999, 2002, 2004

* Manager of the Year (3): 1998, 2002, 2004[/b]

and he has a 57.50% of wins and has managed in 600 games.

Yet some more fact that prove a point :D if rafa could ever do this i'll eat my hat lol. This just proves the point. Wenger is the ultimate manager on a tight budget i wonder how rafa would fair on the same srta money ? 20 mill for torres lol rip off

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

Yet some more fact that prove a point :D if rafa could ever do this i'll eat my hat lol. This just proves the point. Wenger is the ultimate manager on a tight budget i wonder how rafa would fair on the same srta money ? 20 mill for torres lol rip off

morientes - 6.3m total failure

aurelio - not good

crouch - cant believe he is competing with the likes of torres for a place

fowler - never any point in signing him

gonzales - 4m - on him way out

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

morientes - 6.3m total failure

aurelio - not good

crouch - cant believe he is competing with the likes of torres for a place

fowler - never any point in signing him

gonzales - 4m - on him way out

Morientes didnt adapt to the style in England' date=' look at shevva, you dont always get it right.

Aurelio...nice words of facts there - "not good". Hmm....i think half of the gunners team isint good, therefore i must be correct! He was doing well before his injury, enough said.

Cant believe Crouch os doing well eh? 29 goals in 91 games in the prem, basically 1 in every 3 games, not bad at all, not to mention 12 in 19 for his country, thats good right? Considering most gunners rave on about Eduardo's intl record...

Fowler was v cheap, and a fans hero, i seem to recall someone on here saying theres no harm in enough cover right? Thats what he was, cover.

Gonzalez, he did ok, nothing spectacular but it was a risk that didnt work out right, again as he didnt adapt to the style, but look at those from Spain who have, Alonso, Sissoko, Reina etc. Cant be telling me they are bad players.

lol exactly lol look at the facts and you see the right answers ;) That put you to bed i rest my case VP better

What a surprise, you can VP is better, not bias at all, you seem to rely on others for facts to back up your argument. No one is saying VP is bad, you cant seem to look through our rose tinted glasses tbh, and admit Torres is a world class F, and you lot would be going crazy is the gunners pulled out a buy like him.

Yet some more fact that prove a point :D if rafa could ever do this i'll eat my hat lol. This just proves the point. Wenger is the ultimate manager on a tight budget i wonder how rafa would fair on the same srta money ? 20 mill for torres lol rip off

Sir Alex is a superb manager, as he has proved over the years, yet he has had cash to spend, so this makes him bad...? Rafa won the lg in Spain with Valencia, caused a shock in Spain really when he did it, not to mention winning the UEFA and reaching 2 CL finals...when did Arsene do that? All managers can be good at their own things, Rafa does better in Europe, 4 CL Finals in a decade isint half bad IMO.

20mil for Torres rip off? Now your clutching at straws, not a rip off, a great buy, Im Sure a few gunners wouldnt mind seeing him in a Arsenal top, but when it doesnt go their way, a few seem to moan.

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

Cant believe Crouch os doing well eh? 29 goals in 91 games in the prem, basically 1 in every 3 games, not bad at all, not to mention 12 in 19 for his country, thats good right? Considering most gunners rave on about Eduardo's intl record...

i have said this time and time before, crouch has scored all his goals against poor teams:

Uruguay

Hungary

Jamaica - 3

Trinidad and Tobago

Greece - 2

Andorra - 2

FYR Macedonia

Estonia

hmmm, not exactly what i would call decent teams, i mean 3 of them have come against jamaica in a friendly :confused:

dudu, however scored the majority of his goals in competitive games, against the likes of russia and england ;)

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

i have said this time and time before' date=' crouch has scored all his goals against poor teams:

Uruguay

Hungary

Jamaica - 3

Trinidad and Tobago

Greece - 2

Andorra - 2

FYR Macedonia

Estonia

hmmm, not exactly what i would call decent teams, i mean 3 of them have come against jamaica in a friendly :confused:

dudu, however scored the majority of his goals in competitive games, against the likes of russia and england ;)[/quote']

Like ive said before...Crouch has scored in competitive games, unless the World Cup doesnt count...or Euro quals?! If he didnt score them, i dont see who would have? He got the goals, thats all that matters.

And yes he scored vs Russia and England, going back to the point that you think i dont rate him, i do, but c'mon, Davide Gualtieri scored after 8.3 seconds vs England once...for San Marino, im guessing his scoring record isint great ;)

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

Like ive said before...Crouch has scored in competitive games' date=' unless the World Cup doesnt count...or Euro quals?! If he didnt score them, i dont see who would have? He got the goals, thats all that matters.

And yes he scored vs Russia and England, going back to the point that you think i dont rate him, i do, but c'mon, Davide Gualtieri scored after 8.3 seconds vs England once...for San Marino, im guessing his scoring record isint great ;)[/quote']

ok, but trinidad and tobago were probably the worst team in the world cup for at least 10 years, he scored 1 goal then, and one or two goals against a few obscure european teams in the qualifiers,

also, i think that shows how bad things have gotten with england now, they are relying on peter crouch, the laughing stock for other countries, to score goals for them

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

ok' date=' but trinidad and tobago were probably the worst team in the world cup for at least 10 years, he scored 1 goal then, and one or two goals against a few obscure european teams in the qualifiers,

[b']also, i think that shows how bad things have gotten with england now, they are relying on peter crouch, the laughing stock for other countries, to score goals for them[/b]

Ok...they must be crap, they still made it to the WC though right?

Also England scored a good 4 or 5 goals in the WC, he got 1, so not that bad is it?

Here you go again, played poor oppo, but look at Eduardo!!! Take away England and Russia and this is what you get:

Hong Kong - friendly

Italy, but friendly

3 vs Israel

1 vs Macedonia...

1 vs Estonia

Yes Italy was good, but a friendly, which you seem to think doesnt count.

Whats Englands current quality got to do with this comparison? :confused: Ah well, you do realise hes only this good because hes Brazilian ;)

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

...simply amazing if you ask me :D and this is his record -

* FA Premier League (3): 1998' date=' 2002, 2004

* FA Cup (4): 1998, 2002, 2003, 2005

* FA Community Shield (3): 1998, 1999, 2002, 2004

* Manager of the Year (3): 1998, 2002, 2004[/b']

and he has a 57.50% of wins and has managed in 600 games.

Benítez has previously managed Valencia CF and five other La Liga teams. Benítez became the most successful Valencia CF manager in their history after just three seasons in charge. In 2002 he led the club to their first La Liga title since 1971 and in 2004 he led the club to a La Liga/UEFA Cup double. In 2005 he guided Liverpool to victory in the UEFA Champions League and the European Super Cup and in 2006 he led them to victory in the F.A.Cup

Benítez became only the third manager, after Bob Paisley and José Mourinho, to win the UEFA Cup and UEFA Champions League in successive seasons. He is also the first manager to achieve this with two different clubs. He became the second Liverpool manager, after Joe Fagan, to win the European Cup/UEFA Champions League in his first season in charge. Throughout his career Benítez has also won several individual awards. He was awarded Manager Of the Year titles by both Don Balón and El País in 2002 while at Valencia CF and was named Madrid Coach of the Year for 2005 by Seven Stars Sport.

He has proven his self in two different countries ,the above you have given is just for the Prem over 10 yrs,nothing on the european front,yet Rafa has won the Spanish twice against all odds ,won trophys in europe with spanish club as well as english ,also won the domestic cups in England just not the big title yet,but hey its early days for him ,not 10 yrs.

Wenger has not lifted the title for 4 yrs his self, yet hes had 10 yrs in English game.

As for better with a tight budget read on and learn :D

Benítez has achieved success at both Valencia CF and Liverpool with mainly inherited squads. Of the fourteen players used in the 2005 UEFA Champions League Final, twelve were at Liverpool when Benítez arrived. He has also developed an eye for spotting talented players such as Mista, Curro Torres, Luis García, Xabi Alonso and Mohamed Sissoko. His successful career, both at Valencia and Liverpool, has earned him a reputation as one of the best coaches in the world.

Since Rafa Benitez joined Liverpool in June 2004 he has signed 34 players. He has also unloaded 36, thereby cutting his net outlay to around 44m.His signings are:

Josemi (Malaga 2m,), Luis Garcia (6m), Xabi Alonso (Sociedad 10.5m), Antonio Nunez (R Madrid swap), Mauricio Pellegrino (Valencia free), Fernando Morientes (R Madrid 6.3m, now ), Scott Carson (750,000), Jose Reina (Villarreal 6m), Mark Gonzalez (Albacete 4.5m), Boudewijn Zenden (Middlesbro free), Antonio Barragan (Sevilla free), Mohamed Sissoko (Valencia 5.6m), Peter Crouch (So�ton 7m), Godwin Antwi (Zaragoza free), Jack Hobbs (Lincoln free), Paul Anderson (Hull free), Jan Kromkamp (Villarreal swap, ), David Martin (MK Dons free), Daniel Agger (Brondby 5.8m), Robbie Fowler (Man City free), Craig Bellamy (Blackburn 6m), Gabriel Paletta (Ban? eld 2m), Fabiano Aurelio (Valencia free), Jermaine Pennant (Birmingham 6.7m), Dirk Kuyt (Feyenoord 9m), Nabil El Zhar (St Etienne free), Alvaro Arbeloa (Deportivo 2.6m), Francisco Duran (Malaga free), Javier Mascherano (West Ham ? Possible 10 m)

Voronin ( free) Babel ( 11.5 mill ) Torres ( 20 mill ) Benayoun ( undisclosed )

Leiva ( 8 mill )

Like Wenger he has just started building the youth program up by getting top quality youngsters ,LFC have just won the Trophy back to back so things are also going in the right direction there also.:)

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

The problem is as that last post just totaly proved is alot of people on here just post views but dont even check there stats or anything at all to back them up.

A personal view is totaly useless unless its backed up in some way or form.

made me laugh when i saw someone say i would love to see Rafa manage on Wengers budget.

Someone check how much he spent in his 1st season at Anfield you know the season he lifted the CL something wenger has never been able to do. excluding last year hes never really come close either.

Wenger is an excellent manager but hes had 10 bloody years fergie has had even more give Rafa a chance check what hes spent and what hes won in the few years he has been in England.

Lets not forget Rafa has been competing with the crap houiller left him at the start were as Arsenal and Man Utd have had there team for a few years now.

Arsenal were re-building last season but Rafa has been rebuilding since he got here. except hes won trophys doing it.

ppl are only starting to say about the money because we signed Torres.. big deal 1 massive signing ever.

alonso was signed just over £10mil whats he worth now? Agger what he worth now?

Have you noticed on most threads how Arsenal fans are starting to seem very bitter and VERY biased towards there own players ive never seen anything like it for ages. (not all Arsenal fans) I think leigh and a couple of others have some very good views.

But you cant compare Wenger to Benitez untill they have had the same amount of time in the EPL.

I cant belive people are trying to compare Torres and he hasnt even kicked a bloody ball in the EPL its a joke.

also anyone calling Crouch... he only scores against poor teams? if thats so easy why cant the other England forwards manage many themselves?

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

This is what I think about all these player vs. player threads... only if they have been playing in the same leagues for a period of time can they be compared, and also if they play in similar positions. van Persie and Torres have never played in the same leagues. Their goalscoring records dont matter right now because the Spanish and English leagues are vastly different. The only time I'd compare the two are possibly at the end of this season of maybe in two years time. After all, van Persie took around 6 months to really get into his groove.

I dont know how Crouch got into this argument, but Benitez likes him and I dont blame him because he is a brilliant target-man. He would win around at least 60% of headers and this is his strength. As for Eduardo, he was playing in a really poor league before this step, but with Wenger at the helm Im pretty certain he can cut it.

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

This is what I think about all these player vs. player threads... only if they have been playing in the same leagues for a period of time can they be compared' date=' and also if they play in similar positions. van Persie and Torres have never played in the same leagues. Their goalscoring records dont matter right now because the Spanish and English leagues are vastly different. The only time I'd compare the two are possibly at the end of this season of maybe in two years time. After all, van Persie took around 6 months to really get into his groove.

I dont know how Crouch got into this argument, but Benitez likes him and I dont blame him because he is a brilliant target-man. He would win around at least 60% of headers and this is his strength. As for Eduardo, he was playing in a really poor league before this step, but with Wenger at the helm Im pretty certain he can cut it.[/quote']

You have a point there Darshan j :D

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

Ok...they must be crap' date=' they still made it to the WC though right?

Also England scored a good 4 or 5 goals in the WC, he got 1, so not that bad is it?

Here you go again, played poor oppo, but look at Eduardo!!! Take away England and Russia and this is what you get:

Hong Kong - friendly

Italy, but friendly

3 vs Israel

1 vs Macedonia...

1 vs Estonia

Yes Italy was good, but a friendly, which you seem to think doesnt count.

Whats Englands current quality got to do with this comparison? :confused: Ah well, you do realise hes only this good because hes Brazilian ;)[/quote']

ok, so he has scored 5 competitive goals, and against a second string italy team, but a second string italy team is better than what sort of teams crouch has scored against.

people have said he is a good header of the ball, as if!! he can only score from headers if the ball lands on his head, and players like drogba and bent are far better.

as for the brazilian thing, yes i suppose he is, but he plays for croatia, and i reckon by the end of the year, dudu will be at least 92, and crouch will not play many games and will not make much progress

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

ok' date=' so he has scored 5 competitive goals, and against a second string italy team, but a second string italy team is better than what sort of teams crouch has scored against.

people have said he is a good header of the ball, as if!! he can only score from headers if the ball lands on his head, and players like drogba and bent are far better.

as for the brazilian thing, yes i suppose he is, but he plays for croatia, and i reckon by the end of the year, dudu will be at least 92, and crouch will not play many games and will not make much progress[/quote']

I dont get why you think Eduardo is better. First we would have to compare the Croat league and the EPL. The EPL is easily better. So, the fact that Crouch can bang in 10-20 goals a season for a club where he doesnt always play week in week out is fantastic.

Secondly, I look at the international thing this way...eduardo is Croatia's top stiker so you expect him to score a lot, whereas Crouch is not a first choice player for England so the fact that he has got 12 goals in a high class team is brilliant.

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

I dont get why you think Eduardo is better. First we would have to compare the Croat league and the EPL. The EPL is easily better. So' date=' the fact that Crouch can bang in 10-20 goals a season for a club where he doesnt always play week in week out is fantastic.

Secondly, I look at the international thing this way...eduardo is Croatia's top stiker so you expect him to score a lot, whereas Crouch is not a first choice player for England so the fact that he has got 12 goals in a high class team is brilliant.[/quote']

yeah but Eduardo has signed for Arsenal which apparently makes him 99 bound already.

And according to the (some) Gunners fans doesnt matter that hes only scored goals in a poor league because he can still score 20+ goals in the prem no probs.

Although.... Torres is a different matter because hes only ever played in spain against top opposition so hes not going to be as good.

being your top goal scorer for the last 5 seasons for lets face it not the best of spanish teams (position wise) isnt that good.

Yeah you figure out there logic :)

also as for the Crouch debate loads and loads of managers rate him very highly so what do we know compared to them? and Tim can you answer my question from earlier if its only because its against poor oposition why cant the other England forwards score past them on a regular basis

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

Excellent points.

This thread was initially debating RVP vs Torres, however, it seems to have turned into Eduardo vs Crouch.

Torres and Eduardo can only really be debated when they start playing, you can talk about all the facts of their previous clubs and previous leagues until you are blue in the face, but everybody knows the EPL is a different kettle of fish.

Some players suceed and go on to greatness, some players flop and never recover, some take a season to get used to the pace of the EPL, it's all on the player.

As for the Crouch debate, you can't really take his goal to game ratio, as he isn't a "fox-in-the-box" striker, he is great at assisting other strike partners and personally i would love to have him in any squad as he is a player that can easily change a game because of his height ability. He had a great season before he joined Liverpool at Southampton, scoring frequently, against top opposition, including Liverpool, so he certainly knows where the net is. And, as Neller pointed out, why have all the other England strkers struggled against more or less every opposition ?

Eduardo surely then is better than Rooney, Crouch, Owen, Bent and Johnson put together ?

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

I dont get why you think Eduardo is better. First we would have to compare the Croat league and the EPL. The EPL is easily better. So' date=' the fact that Crouch can bang in 10-20 goals a season for a club where he doesnt always play week in week out is fantastic.

Secondly, I look at the international thing this way...eduardo is Croatia's top stiker so you expect him to score a lot, whereas Crouch is not a first choice player for England so the fact that he has got 12 goals in a high class team is brilliant.[/quote']

which comes back to the point that crouch has never scored against a top international team, like top 20 say,

and as for the EPL thing, lets see how eduardo adapts, i think he will be a great signing for the gunners, and as for englands top striker, who is it??? they dont have a main striker who scores lots for them ;)

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

which comes back to the point that crouch has never scored against a top international team' date=' like top 20 say,

and as for the EPL thing, lets see how eduardo adapts, i think he will be a great signing for the gunners, and as for englands top striker, who is it??? they dont have a main striker who scores lots for them ;)[/quote']

Yeah and thats a good thing for McLaren because lots of different players score for him :). Better to have 5 players on 5 goals than one player on 25 because if he goes then who is gonna score?

As for Eduardo, thats the point... he is not better than Crouch, you just said it! Crouch has adapted and scores goals against top teams (Arsenal) and also top scorer in the Champs League for Liv last year.

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

also as for the Crouch debate loads and loads of managers rate him very highly so what do we know compared to them? and Tim can you answer my question from earlier if its only because its against poor oposition why cant the other England forwards score past them on a regular basis

the honest answer is that the english play a poor formation, which favours booting the ball up to a target man, which is crouch, however, for decent footballers like rooney and defoe, they dont really benefit, but anyway, crouch isnt a good finisher, headerer of the ball, has no real dribbling ability. the only reason why he has got playing for england is because he played quite well and scored a few goals for southampton at the last half of the season, if he hadnt transferred then, he would be on the fringes of a poor team which is where he belongs to be honest

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

the honest answer is that the english play a poor formation' date=' which favours booting the ball up to a target man, which is crouch, however, for decent footballers like rooney and defoe, they dont really benefit, but anyway, crouch isnt a good finisher, headerer of the ball, has no real dribbling ability. the only reason why he has got playing for england is because he played quite well and scored a few goals for southampton at the last half of the season, if he hadnt transferred then, he would be on the fringes of a poor team which is where he belongs to be honest[/quote']

Tell me, how long ago was Crouch at Southampton and why exactly does it matter?

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

Ok...they must be crap' date=' they still made it to the WC though right?

Also England scored a good 4 or 5 goals in the WC, he got 1, so not that bad is it?

Here you go again, played poor oppo, but look at Eduardo!!! Take away England and Russia and this is what you get:

Hong Kong - friendly

Italy, but friendly

3 vs Israel

1 vs Macedonia...

1 vs Estonia

Yes Italy was good, but a friendly, which you seem to think doesnt count.

Whats Englands current quality got to do with this comparison? :confused: Ah well, you do realise hes only this good because hes Brazilian ;)[/quote']

1. Various teams qualify for the WC. Some continents aren't so great in football, yet the National teams from that continent qualify for WC. If they played in Europe they would never qualify, IMO. I don't have nothing aginsta them but the facts are pointing that way.

2. Doesn't matter how many goals England scored. He scored one that is not much. Croatia scored 11 goals on Wc 98, Suker scored 6. Without him Croatia scored 5 goals. That is similar number England scored. If Crouch scored more England would score more.

3. You cant take away anything. Take away Henrys 20 goals and you will have nothing.

I'm not trying to say that Crouch is bad player. I actually think he is undervalued. But your criteria isn't consistent. You tend to modify the facts so they actually prove your point. You may be skillful in that but that doesn't mean you are right.

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

Yeah and thats a good thing for McLaren because lots of different players score for him :). Better to have 5 players on 5 goals than one player on 25 because if he goes then who is gonna score?

As for Eduardo' date=' thats the point... he is not better than Crouch, you just said it! Crouch has adapted and scores goals against top teams (Arsenal) and also top scorer in the Champs League for Liv last year.[/quote']

i never said he was worse than crouch did i? my point about adapting thing is that eduardo has never EVER played in the premiership, or ever experienced english football for that matter, crouch is born in england, so he doesnt need to adapt to his own countries style of play does he??

are you saying that players that shevchenko, morientes, ballack are inferior players to him just because they dont really have the right game for english football? if your saying crouch is better than any of those players, i cant really take you seriously.

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

i never said he was worse than crouch did i? my point about adapting thing is that eduardo has never EVER played in the premiership' date=' or ever experienced english football for that matter, crouch is born in england, so he doesnt need to adapt to his own countries style of play does he??

are you saying that players that shevchenko, morientes, ballack are inferior players to him just because they dont really have the right game for english football? if your saying crouch is better than any of those players, i cant really take you seriously.[/quote']

When on earth did I mention Ballack, Sheva and Morientes?

It doesnt matter whether the player is playing in England, Spain, Germany, France or Italy because those countries are where the level of football is higher. So, from this, an international class player from one of those countries are most likely better than one from Korea or Croatia in this instance. Ballack, Sheva and Morientes have proven themselves and have adapted to top leagues and the fact remains that Eduardo has not. Not yet at least. Which means, he is not better than Crouch yet.

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

1. Various teams qualify for the WC. Some continents aren't so great in football, yet the National teams from that continent qualify for WC. If they played in Europe they would never qualify, IMO. I don't have nothing aginsta them but the facts are pointing that way.

m8, we all know about how american teams and the rest easily qualify for every major tournament, that doesnt really have much to do with what i am saying though. of course trinidad & tobago would never have a chance of qualifying in european qualifcation groups, end of that.

and, i never modify facts, they are all true for that matter, if i just gave out an opinion without giving out facts to back it up, then that would be pointless. i agree, a goal is a goal, and he has scored 10 'international' goals, but against teams which are arguably not international class.

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