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Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres


Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres  

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

1. Various teams qualify for the WC. Some continents aren't so great in football' date=' yet the National teams from that continent qualify for WC. If they played in Europe they would never qualify, IMO. I don't have nothing aginsta them but the facts are pointing that way.

2. Doesn't matter how many goals England scored. He scored one that is not much. Croatia scored 11 goals on Wc 98, Suker scored 6. Without him Croatia scored 5 goals. That is similar number England scored. If Crouch scored more England would score more.

3. You cant take away anything. Take away Henrys 20 goals and you will have nothing.

I'm not trying to say that Crouch is bad player. I actually think he is undervalued. But your criteria isn't consistent. You tend to modify the facts so they actually prove your point. You may be skillful in that but that doesn't mean you are right.[/quote']

Croatia scored 11 goals in WC 98, Nav said England scored 4-5. If people are blaming Crouch for that were the **** was the other forwards.

Also comparing 1 of the (old) words best in Suker isnt really a good comparison, why not just compare him to Pele?

I agree about the continets thing if they was in euorope then hardly any of those would make it.

Nav was just trying to defend crouch against tom who is basicly saying hes poor, i keep forgetting Tom knows more about a player than Rafa, Mcclaren, Redknapp, etc etc

I dont think Crouch is a world beater but his record speaks for itself, people will say he cant score against good oposition so in that case then Arsenal and co are not very good because hes scored past most teams in the prem with Liverpool and for SO.

Also Tom that wasnt what Darshan said at all if theres anyone that shouldnt be taken seriously on this thread its you, Darshan has made some excellent points and doesnt just base it all on his personal opinion at least facts back him up

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres Morientes didnt adapt to the style in England' date=' look at shevva, you dont always get it right. Aurelio...nice words of facts there - "not good". Hmm...

Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres Everybody's going to be biased towards their own players, that's just natural as a fan, but you can't compare two players from two different countries, who hav

Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

m8' date=' we all know about how american teams and the rest easily qualify for every major tournament, that doesnt really have much to do with what i am saying though. of course trinidad & tobago would never have a chance of qualifying in european qualifcation groups, end of that.

and, i never modify facts, they are all true for that matter, if i just gave out an opinion without giving out facts to back it up, then that would be pointless. i agree, a goal is a goal, and he has scored 10 'international' goals, but against teams which are arguably not international class.[/quote']

either you or I need to start reading posts properly because im sure he was talking to Nav.

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

When on earth did I mention Ballack' date=' Sheva and Morientes?

It doesnt matter whether the player is playing in England, Spain, Germany, France or Italy because those countries are where the level of football is higher. So, from this, an international class player from one of those countries are most likely better than one from Korea or Croatia in this instance. Ballack, Sheva and Morientes have proven themselves and have adapted to top leagues and the fact remains that Eduardo has not. Not yet at least. Which means, he is not better than Crouch yet.[/quote']

Using your logic you can't say he is worse either.

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

m8' date=' we all know about how american teams and the rest easily qualify for every major tournament, that doesnt really have much to do with what i am saying though. of course trinidad & tobago would never have a chance of qualifying in european qualifcation groups, end of that.

and, i never modify facts, they are all true for that matter, if i just gave out an opinion without giving out facts to back it up, then that would be pointless. i agree, a goal is a goal, and he has scored 10 'international' goals, but against teams which are arguably not international class.[/quote']

It was a reply to Nav m8! :D

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

When on earth did I mention Ballack, Sheva and Morientes?

It doesnt matter whether the player is playing in England, Spain, Germany, France or Italy because those countries are where the level of football is higher. So, from this, an international class player from one of those countries are most likely better than one from Korea or Croatia in this instance. Ballack, Sheva and Morientes have proven themselves and have adapted to top leagues and the fact remains that Eduardo has not. Not yet at least. Which means, he is not better than Crouch yet.

well, you said that players who havnt adapted, are not as good as the ones that have, like crouch for example. i would have dudu any day, he is a great finisher, quite versatile, and plays with pace and flair, however playing crouch restricts the type of game you can play, and makes your general play boring and one dimensional, if anyone sees england playing with crouch, it is only slightly more interesting than dog poo (i cant swear). and who wants to see a boring team which is not producing results?

crouch is also very poor technically, and the only usefull thing he can do is head a ball on, to no-one usually :D , if anyone saw england vs portugal last year they were just lauching the ball upfield, but no one was near him to do anything. a striker like tevez would be chasing every ball down and looking to make breaks.

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

well' date=' you said that players who havnt adapted, are not as good as the ones that have, like crouch for example. i would have dudu any day, he is a great finisher, quite versatile, and plays with pace and flair, however playing crouch restricts the type of game you can play, and makes your general play boring and one dimensional, if anyone sees england playing with crouch, it is only slightly more interesting than dog poo (i cant swear). and who wants to see a boring team which is not producing results?

crouch is also very poor technically, and the only usefull thing he can do is head a ball on, to no-one usually :D , if anyone saw england vs portugal last year they were just lauching the ball upfield, but no one was near him to do anything. a striker like tevez would be chasing every ball down and looking to make breaks.[/quote']

Crouch plays for Liverpool aswell as England and we dont play how u are saying.

Englands football doesnt even suit Crouch, people think lumping a ball up to him suits his game well you cant be anymore wrong.

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

Also Tom that wasnt what Darshan said at all if theres anyone that shouldnt be taken seriously on this thread its you, Darshan has made some excellent points and doesnt just base it all on his personal opinion at least facts back him up

well.....

i have said this time and time before, crouch has scored all his goals against poor teams:

Uruguay

Hungary

Jamaica - 3

Trinidad and Tobago

Greece - 2

Andorra - 2

FYR Macedonia

Estonia

hmmm, not exactly what i would call decent teams, i mean 3 of them have come against jamaica in a friendly

dudu, however scored the majority of his goals in competitive games, against the likes of russia and england

if those are not facts, then something is wrong with you :)

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

Croatia scored 11 goals in WC 98' date=' Nav said England scored 4-5. If people are blaming Crouch for that were the **** was the other forwards.

Also comparing 1 of the (old) words best in Suker isnt really a good comparison, why not just compare him to Pele?

I agree about the continets thing if they was in euorope then hardly any of those would make it.

Nav was just trying to defend crouch against tom who is basicly saying hes poor, i keep forgetting Tom knows more about a player than Rafa, Mcclaren, Redknapp, etc etc

I dont think Crouch is a world beater but his record speaks for itself, people will say he cant score against good oposition so in that case then Arsenal and co are not very good because hes scored past most teams in the prem with Liverpool and for SO.

Also Tom that wasnt what Darshan said at all if theres anyone that shouldnt be taken seriously on this thread its you, Darshan has made some excellent points and doesnt just base it all on his personal opinion at least facts back him up[/quote']

I'm not blaming him for not scoring more. I'm just saying that his logic isn't right. England scored 5 so 1 Crouch's goal is great because it is 20% of all England goals. One goal is one goal. It is a goal but it isn't much.

I'm not comparing Suker to Crouch. I was trying to show that Croatia would have scored 5 goals without him, but that didn't stop him to add 6 more.

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

and if people read Nellers argument throughly they would realise he said, he is not calling Crouch a world beater, he also pointed out that even if some of his goals came against poor opposition, where were all Englands other star players ??? please answer that. End of the day, he delivered the goods. He also delivered the goods for Liverpool. can you argue against that ?

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

well.....

if those are not facts' date=' then something is wrong with you :)[/quote']

may I ask were I said those wasnt facts?

Why do you keep skipping the fact hes scored loads of goals in the EPL inc a hatrick against Arsenal and hes also scored goals in the CL

You seem to reply to certain parts and skip others, also you get confused as to what people have said.

last few posts prove this :)

Let me ask you 1 question tho... loads of managers and pundits say Crouch is very technicly good, other managers also rate him very highly who are we compared to them?

surely they know there stuff, they manage and make millions we are on an online forum

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

I'm not blaming him for not scoring more. I'm just saying that his logic isn't right. England scored 5 so 1 Crouch's goal is great because it is 20% of all England goals. One goal is one goal. It is a goal but it isn't much.

I'm not comparing Suker to Crouch. I was trying to show that Croatia would have scored 5 goals without him' date=' but that didn't stop him to add 6 more.[/quote']

Yeah I know what you mean but England play to Crouch's strength as much as they do Gerrards.. they dont.

Crouchs game is getting on the end of incoming crosses look at some of the goals hes scored for Liverpool doing that.

England fire the ball up to him and he has to turn and run, this doesnt suit his game at all it would be like saying to Henry stand in the box and get on the end of headers.

Croatia had an amazing world cup in 98 but how can that be compared to the WC just gone by?

England whole team and tactics were awfull we barely created any chances at all, im not defending crouch because belive it or not im not a massive fan myself.

but i juts dont think some of the things said against him are true, especially from Tom.

I see crouch 90mins week in and week out and hes far more than just an average player

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

Let me ask you 1 question tho... loads of managers and pundits say Crouch is very technicly good, other managers also rate him very highly who are we compared to them?

surely they know there stuff, they manage and make millions we are on an online forum

ok, can i just ask you what nationality they are? besides, they usually say what they people want to hear, if they were completely honest all the time, they would get hate mail etc,

at least on forums people arent afraid to express their real point of view, but if someone on TV says something offensive or disrespectful towards a player, they have the player to answer to :rolleyes: .

also, when was the last time you heard a pundit say how good fred is for example, they talk about english players because the viewers are english. wait until you watch football in another country, because they dont treat england specially like we do over here ;)

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

I would just like to make it clear that i'm not trying to compare Eduardo and Crouch. That is pointless and also this is the wrong thread for doing that. I'm just disagreeing with some opinions.

Yeah mate same for me, I didnt mean you either when i said people comparing the 2.

Im lookiing forward to seeing Eduardo, forum should be fun either way once we start going.

especially on that Arsenal gossip thread :)

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

ok' date=' can i just ask you what nationality they are? besides, they usually say what they people want to hear, if they were completely honest all the time, they would get hate mail etc,

at least on forums people arent afraid to express their real point of view, but if someone on TV says something offensive or disrespectful towards a player, they have the player to answer to :rolleyes: .

also, when was the last time you heard a pundit say how good fred is for example, they talk about english players because the viewers are english. wait until you watch football in another country, because they dont treat england specially like we do over here ;)[/quote']

lol!

Sorry but thats just wrong, pundits are always calling players poor. and im talking about 1 of the worlds best managers in Rafa. The so called England manager Mclaren and Redknapp rates him very highly.

as for Pundits, Guillit, Souness, Wilkinson, Andy Gray etc etc they are usually pretty honest especially Guillit.

Also unless you have answered it while i was typing this can you please reply to your Crouch cant score against good oposition when hes got a hatrick against Arsenal and goals past most the EPL sides and also Liverpools top scorer in the CL.

He also changed the CL final when he came on.

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

and neller' date=' you being a liverpool fan, and crouch playing 4 them aswell, you are obviously going to be slightly biased in your opinion on him[/quote']

im sorry but as i have mentioned although u must have missed it im not a Crouch fan. I just think your logic behind your debate of him its totaly wrong.

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

Yeah mate same for me' date=' I didnt mean you either when i said people comparing the 2.

Im lookiing forward to seeing Eduardo, forum should be fun either way once we start going.

especially on that Arsenal gossip thread :)[/quote']

D**n right!:D

I can already see the posts: " I told you!":D

Hope i will be the one with a right to say this:D

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

and neller' date=' you being a liverpool fan, and crouch playing 4 them aswell, you are obviously going to be slightly biased in your opinion on him[/quote']

No if again you read his post he said he isnt that much of a fan of Crouchs. You argument is flawed as it is all " if buts and maybe's". We dont hear about other strikers, because why would a pundit in the middle of a england game go, oh and that brazilian fred is a handy player :confused: it wouldnt happen.

You seem to skip each point Neller makes, end of the day, he delivered for england when our other players didnt, he has scored in the EPL and CL.

and as for your point down playing pundits and managers knowledge thats laughable. sorry if i seem to be mocking you but thats such a awful opinion. if a manager wanted to down play a players ability he would. if he wanted to criticise him , he would. but no one has said that about crouch, and Rafa bought him, to do a job and he did it. your a cardiff city fan, your just jelous you dont have a good striker :rolleyes:

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

No if again you read his post he said he isnt that much of a fan of Crouchs. You argument is flawed as it is all " if buts and maybe's". We dont hear about other strikers' date=' because why would a pundit in the middle of a england game go, oh and that brazilian fred is a handy player :confused: it wouldnt happen.

You seem to skip each point Neller makes, end of the day, he delivered for england when our other players didnt, he has scored in the EPL and CL.

and as for your point down playing pundits and managers knowledge thats laughable. sorry if i seem to be mocking you but thats such a awful opinion. if a manager wanted to down play a players ability he would. if he wanted to criticise him , he would. but no one has said that about crouch, and Rafa bought him, to do a job and he did it. your a cardiff city fan, your just jelous you dont have a good striker :rolleyes:[/quote']

well we are going for fowler, having just sold chopra, who to be honest i would rather have them than crouch any day, remember though that cardiff are in division 2

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

well we are going for fowler' date=' having just sold chopra, who to be honest i would rather have them than crouch any day, remember though that cardiff are in division 2[/quote']

well that really does show your weak logic behind all your points, because no one, who should know anything about football would agree with your comment. Fowler - thats another thread, and as for going for him, that hardly means you have got him does it ?

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

1. Various teams qualify for the WC. Some continents aren't so great in football' date=' yet the National teams from that continent qualify for WC. If they played in Europe they would never qualify, IMO. I don't have nothing aginsta them but the facts are pointing that way.

2. Doesn't matter how many goals England scored. He scored one that is not much. Croatia scored 11 goals on Wc 98, Suker scored 6. Without him Croatia scored 5 goals. That is similar number England scored. If Crouch scored more England would score more.

3. You cant take away anything. Take away Henrys 20 goals and you will have nothing.

I'm not trying to say that Crouch is bad player. I actually think he is undervalued. But your criteria isn't consistent. You tend to modify the facts so they actually prove your point. You may be skillful in that but that doesn't mean you are right.[/quote']

Your rating Crouch to Suker?! Im keeping this on Eduardo :) I was also mentioning the ratio, 1 out of 5. Suker had 6 out of 11, dont see what this has to do with my point, Rooney...scored 0 n the WC, he must be poor right?

Ok then, i am not right, but who am i proving this too? Few biased gooners? Not gonna keep me up at night if it doesnt get through.

I rate Crouch, no matter what people say, they say hes scored vs bad teams etc, he has done it vs good clubs too, just like Eduardo and all Fs. You say Henry, you telling me he doesnt score lots of goals ve weaker nations? He scored goals for Saints a few years ago, got his move, and despite people not liking him, he does his job, which is to score when he plays.

of course trinidad & tobago would never have a chance of qualifying in european qualifcation groups' date=' end of that.[/b']

and, i never modify facts, they are all true for that matter, if i just gave out an opinion without giving out facts to back it up, then that would be pointless. i agree, a goal is a goal, and he has scored 10 'international' goals, but against teams which are arguably not international class.

Well they arent in Europe for a start! You telling me the likes of Mexico and the US would make it? They do so well, but might not make it in Europe. You cant compare things like that, as they have been playing their all their careers, totally random comparison IMO.

They are intl class, otherwise they wouldnt have an intl team :rolleyes: Teams like Estonia, teams Eduardo has scored against, also, Eduardo is Cro's main F atm, has more games and chances to score vs teams, Crouch has far less as hes often 3rd/4th choice F.

And if you call Uruguay + Greece poor teams, then theres something a tad strange about you....considering Eduardos goals barring Russia/Eng/Italy have been vs 'poor' teams too.

I'm not blaming him for not scoring more. I'm just saying that his logic isn't right. England scored 5 so 1 Crouch's goal is great because it is 20% of all England goals. One goal is one goal. It is a goal but it isn't much.

Yes its 20%, but it was 1 out of 5! You have to look at how many goals were scored before you can say 20% is bad, especially considering 1 of those was an O.G.

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

I dont get why you think Eduardo is better. First we would have to compare the Croat league and the EPL. The EPL is easily better. So' date=' the fact that Crouch can bang in 10-20 goals a season for a club where he doesnt always play week in week out is fantastic.

Secondly, I look at the international thing this way...eduardo is Croatia's top stiker so you expect him to score a lot, whereas Crouch is not a first choice player for England so the fact that he has got 12 goals in a high class team is brilliant.[/quote']

yeah but Eduardo has signed for Arsenal which apparently makes him 99 bound already.

And according to the (some) Gunners fans doesnt matter that hes only scored goals in a poor league because he can still score 20+ goals in the prem no probs.

Although.... Torres is a different matter because hes only ever played in spain against top opposition so hes not going to be as good.

being their top goal scorer for the last 5 seasons for lets face it not the best of spanish teams (position wise) isnt that good.

Yeah you figure out there logic :)

also as for the Crouch debate loads and loads of managers rate him very highly so what do we know compared to them? and Tim can you answer my question from earlier if he cant score against good oposition then how has he gotten goals past nearly all the teams in the prem inc hatrick Vs the gunners and also goals in the CL

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Re: Robin Van Persie vs Fernando Torres

Everybody's going to be biased towards their own players, that's just natural as a fan, but you can't compare two players from two different countries, who haven't played in the same league.

What if Crouch had moved to the Croatian league ? Would we be praising him or doubting him ? Nobody knows. What about if RVP moved to La Liga as Torres is going the other way, would he succeed ? Probably, but again nobody really knows for sure, as nobody knows about Torres, Crouch and Eduardo.

So how can they be compared ?

And Arsenal fans, i'm not biased towards any of these players, but your calling Crouch's ability, isn't this the same guy who netted a hat-trick against you last season ?

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