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Re: Bundesliga Ratings 2012/2013

Hi Guys,

I've got quite a few Bundesliga players and I was wandering how they will do in the next rating changes (Whenever they are):

Jan Kirchhoff

Xherdan Shaqiri

David Alaba

Manuel Neuer

Mario Gomez

Bastian Schwiensteiger

Sven Bender

Mats Hummels

Stephen Kiessling

Roman Neustadter

Benedict Howedes

Kevin De Bruyne

Granit Xhaka

Julien Draxler

Thanks for any help that I may get.

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Re: Bundesliga Ratings 2012/2013

Did you watch the game?

Hummels AND Subotic got caught out so many times' date=' every Bayern attack made them look awkward. I am really surprised anyone can say they both had a good game...

Bayern only had trouble because Weidenfeller had an unbelievable game and their attack was nowhere near as potent as normal. Largely due to Robben's greed, which after enough attempts finally paid off.[/quote']

Wrong. Hummels and Subotic had good to middling games for the first 80 minutes. From where I was sitting in Stand E, you could see that the game was lost by a collective lack of cohesion, pressing and confidence in the back four and defensive midfield among Dortmund's ranks in the last 10-15 minutes. Previously, where Bender, Gundogan, and the back four had tracked back and broken up the play, leaving Muller , Robben, Ribery and Mandzukic to make themselves look dangerous mostly only from set plays, they then looked tired and nervous. Weidenfeller was excellent, admittedly, but his defence did a decent job until those fateful minutes at the end. Bayern were made to look awkward at the back for long stretches of the game too. Lewandowski's hold up play meant he could bring Reus, Kuba and Grosskreutz into the game, and the diagonal ball from the wider channels into the areas round the edge of the penalty areas looked to be Dortmund's best weapon. Dante and Boateng were made to look stupid sometimes too. Lahm had a super solid game again. If you manage to get hold of the full 92 minute version of the game, rather than just the highlights, you will see that Bayerns winning goal came from a bit of unsporting play from Boateng. He was simulating cramp, having committed a foul. Getting up limping at first, he saw the opening with the free kick beckoning, and - lo and behold - suddenly became cramp-free!

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Re: Bundesliga Ratings 2012/2013

Hi Guys' date='

I've got quite a few Bundesliga players and I was wandering how they will do in the next rating changes (Whenever they are):

Jan Kirchhoff - [b']stay[/b]

Xherdan Shaqiri - rise

David Alaba - 50/50 rise

Manuel Neuer - 50/50 rise

Mario Gomez - stay

Bastian Schwiensteiger - 50/50 rise

Sven Bender - 50-50 rise

Mats Hummels - stay

Stephen Kiessling -rise

Roman Neustadter - rise

Benedict Howedes - stay

Kevin De Bruyne - rise

Granit Xhaka - stay

Julien Draxler - rise

Thanks for any help that I may get.

........................

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Re: Bundesliga Ratings 2012/2013

Wrong. Hummels and Subotic had good to middling games for the first 80 minutes. From where I was sitting in Stand E' date=' you could see that the game was lost by a collective lack of cohesion, pressing and confidence in the back four and defensive midfield among Dortmund's ranks in the last 10-15 minutes. Previously, where Bender, Gundogan, and the back four had tracked back and broken up the play, leaving Muller , Robben, Ribery and Mandzukic to make themselves look dangerous mostly only from set plays, they then looked tired and nervous. Weidenfeller was excellent, admittedly, but his defence did a decent job until those fateful minutes at the end. Bayern were made to look awkward at the back for long stretches of the game too. Lewandowski's hold up play meant he could bring Reus, Kuba and Grosskreutz into the game, and the diagonal ball from the wider channels into the areas round the edge of the penalty areas looked to be Dortmund's best weapon. Dante and Boateng were made to look stupid sometimes too. Lahm had a super solid game again. If you manage to get hold of the full 92 minute version of the game, rather than just the highlights, you will see that Bayerns winning goal came from a bit of unsporting play from Boateng. He was simulating cramp, having committed a foul. Getting up limping at first, he saw the opening with the free kick beckoning, and - lo and behold - suddenly became cramp-free![/quote']

Most of the stuff you write is tactically wrong.

The Dortmund defense struggled the entire time (except that first half an hour when Bayern couldn't even get past the half-way line); not just the last 10-15 minutes. They played a high line and time and time again, Bayern players spurted into the space behind them. This happened in the first half already and even more frequently in the second half.

That's where Klopp failed as a manager. Dortmund was tired at the end but they didn't change their style of play dramatically and he continued to let them play that high line (apart from the fact that he didn't sub til the 90th minute)

They were lacking the pressing up front eventually (which was always going to happen, can't blame the players for that) but still stood rather high and were therefore exposed to long balls over the defense or through balls splitting the defense.

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Re: Bundesliga Ratings 2012/2013

Most of the stuff you write is tactically wrong.

The Dortmund defense struggled the entire time (except that first half an hour when Bayern couldn't even get past the half-way line); not just the last 10-15 minutes. They played a high line and time and time again' date=' Bayern players spurted into the space behind them. This happened in the first half already and even more frequently in the second half.

That's where Klopp failed as a manager. Dortmund was tired at the end but they didn't change their style of play dramatically and he continued to let them play that high line (apart from the fact that he didn't sub til the 90th minute)

They were lacking the pressing up front eventually (which was always going to happen, can't blame the players for that) but still stood rather high and were therefore exposed to long balls over the defense or through balls splitting the defense.[/quote']

I can live with that. What I have failed to make clear to you is that the hard work of Gundogan and Bender in front of the back four masked that high line as you call it. However, Bayern were playing exactly the same 'high line' in the first half.

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Re: Bundesliga Ratings 2012/2013

Did you watch the game?

Hummels AND Subotic got caught out so many times' date=' every Bayern attack made them look awkward. I am really surprised anyone can say they both had a good game...

Bayern only had trouble because Weidenfeller had an unbelievable game and their attack was nowhere near as potent as normal. Largely due to Robben's greed, which after enough attempts finally paid off.[/quote']

Do you read the posts?I said that Subotic had to cover Hummels aswell who was in 1 leg.Conclusion: Some of Subotic mistakes were because he had to do Hummels's job aswell....and Hummels played in 1 leg which resulted with a pretty awful performance.Quite hard with the logic isn't it?

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Re: Bundesliga Ratings 2012/2013

I can live with that. What I have failed to make clear to you is that the hard work of Gundogan and Bender in front of the back four masked that high line as you call it. However' date=' Bayern were playing exactly the same 'high line' in the first half.[/quote']

Gündogan and Bender playing in front of that back 4 doesn't help you when Dante or Boateng play a long ball.

Those long balls (the kind Juve and even Dortmund at times play) can only be defended by 3 ways.

1) high pressing (the kind of pressing they showed the first 25 minutes; not sustainable though) - obviously not giving the defender or the def mid who drops deep time on the ball will take those long balls away

2) deeper defensive line - self-explanatory

3) superior positioning of the Centre-backs. - self-explanatory

Dortmund failed in all 3 regards in that CL final. They didn't press the second half. They didn't stand deeper. They didn't show superior defending, their positioning was awful at times (especially Hummels / Schmelzer; you had Piszcek as the last man defending Ribery at the top of the box in the last minute when the goal happened, what kind of positioning is that?)

i will quote zonal marking now since they can explain it much better than I can and they are also talking about that high defensive line (among other things)

Five chances in behind the Dortmund defence

But the Bayern attackers, particularly Robben, continued to exploit that high Dortmind defensive line. There were five key moments that summed up Bayern’s strength in this regard.

The first was the opening goal – Robben picked up the ball in a central position, swapped passes with Ribery while sprinting in behind the defence, rounded Weidenfeller and squared for Mandzukic to tap in. The Croatian’s finish was simple, but earlier in the move he’d excellently collected a long ball on his chest, knocking it down to Robben to start the attack – that simple touch sums up why he’s been so vital for Bayern this season.

Then there was a huge, accurate diagonal ball from David Alaba into the path of Mandzukic on 62 minutes – he got in behind the defence but his finish was poor from a tight angle – Robben was up alongside him, waiting for a square pass.

After Dortmund’s equaliser (a penalty from Ilkay Gundogan after Dante’s error), there was another Bayern chance on 71 minutes because of simple pace in behind the defence – Muller raced forward in the inside-right channel past Marcel Schmelzer, rounded Weidenfeller (a common theme – with Dortmund playing so high up, he spent most of the game as a sweeper) and rolled the ball towards the goal. Again, Robben was up in support, but Neven Subotic got ahead of him to clear dramatically.

On 76 minutes, the Robben-Muller-Mandzukic combination caused problems again behind the Dortmund defence – this time Muller was the man through on goal, from Robben’s pass, with Mandzukic up in support. Muller was half-fouled by Subotic and simultaneously played a poor pass to Mandzukic, who shot into the sidenetting from a tight angle.

At this point, having conceded four decent chances from Bayern casually knocking the ball in behind the defence, it was obvious that Dortmund needed to sit deeper. They didn’t – and they were punished two minutes from time.

Jerome Boateng’s chip over the top of the defence to Franck Ribery was a fantastic pass and showed great vision, but Dortmund were inviting Bayern to create a succession of chances – they just needed to knock the ball over the top and force the Dortmund centre-backs to turn.

This time, Ribery’s backheel found Robben storming into the box to roll the ball gently past Weidenfeller and into the net for the winner.

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Re: Bundesliga Ratings 2012/2013

Anyone reckon Draxler can rise by 2? Also' date=' if one were to chose between Shaqiri and Draxler who would you pick (neither will be a starter for me)[/quote']

draxler for me

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Re: Bundesliga Ratings 2012/2013

Anyone reckon Draxler can rise by 2? Also' date=' if one were to chose between Shaqiri and Draxler who would you pick (neither will be a starter for me)[/quote']

Close one, but I would choose Draxler due to personal preference

:)

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Re: Bundesliga Ratings 2012/2013

The Dortmund defense struggled the entire time (except that first half an hour when Bayern couldn't even get past the half-way line); not just the last 10-15 minutes. They played a high line and time and time again' date=' Bayern players spurted into the space behind them. This happened in the first half already and even more frequently in the second half. [/quote']

Finally someone who watched the game and didn't see it through SM hype eyes.

Do you read the posts?I said that Subotic had to cover Hummels aswell who was in 1 leg.Conclusion: Some of Subotic mistakes were because he had to do Hummels's job aswell....and Hummels played in 1 leg which resulted with a pretty awful performance.Quite hard with the logic isn't it?

Nicely patronising, I'm aware Hummels was injured, thats not the point is it. I'm not debating why they had a bad game, im saying they both had a bad game...

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Re: Bundesliga Ratings 2012/2013

Finally someone who watched the game and didn't see it through SM hype eyes.

Nicely patronising' date=' I'm aware Hummels was injured, thats not the point is it. I'm not debating why they had a bad game, im saying they both had a bad game...[/quote']

To be fair it's a Bayern fan and a Dortmund fan, they view the same thing in a very different way :P

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Re: Bundesliga Ratings 2012/2013

Now that Bayern Munich have won Bundesliga and Champions League, that certainly justify Schweinsteiger, am I right?

60-70 - A player who has just started his career or playing non-league football;

70-75 - A player who has just started his career or playing in the fourth tier within the major world leagues;

75-80 - A player who has proved himself on a regular basis in the third tier within the major world leagues or 'minor' leagues;

80-85 - A player who has proved himself on a regular basis in the second tier within the major world leagues or 'lesser' leagues;

85-90 - A player who has proved himself on a regular basis in one of the major world leagues or excelled in a 'lesser' league;

90-95 - A player who has proved his class on a regular basis in one of the major world leagues or for a top ranked national team or on the continental stage;

95+ - A player who has proved his class both on the domestic and continental or international stage.

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Re: Bundesliga Ratings 2012/2013

Gündogan and Bender playing in front of that back 4 doesn't help you when Dante or Boateng play a long ball.

Those long balls (the kind Juve and even Dortmund at times play) can only be defended by 3 ways.

1) high pressing (the kind of pressing they showed the first 25 minutes; not sustainable though) - obviously not giving the defender or the def mid who drops deep time on the ball will take those long balls away

2) deeper defensive line - self-explanatory

3) superior positioning of the Centre-backs. - self-explanatory

Dortmund failed in all 3 regards in that CL final. They didn't press the second half. They didn't stand deeper. They didn't show superior defending' date=' their positioning was awful at times (especially Hummels / Schmelzer; you had Piszcek as the last man defending Ribery at the top of the box in the last minute when the goal happened, what kind of positioning is that?)

i will quote zonal marking now since they can explain it much better than I can and they are also talking about that high defensive line (among other things)[/quote']

only two long balls of note. Dante tries the long ball too often. Most of his long balls on Saturday went to Pizszeck or Schmelzer.

And Gundogan and Bender were extremely helpful. With lesser DMids in front of them, the shaky moments of the centre backs would have run into dozens.

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Re: Bundesliga Ratings 2012/2013

This is getting a bit confusing now.

We got a-ry' date=' A-J, Alex P., ARP, Abiducus etc. all on the last 2 pages. Come on gents, pick a nickname that stands out more :P

I don't even know who wrote what :D[/quote']

What exactly is a 'stand out' nickname? Buckwurst?

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Re: Bundesliga Ratings 2012/2013

This is getting a bit confusing now.

We got a-ry' date=' A-J, Alex P., ARP, Abiducus etc. all on the last 2 pages. Come on gents, pick a nickname that stands out more :P

I don't even know who wrote what :D[/quote']

:D I uploaded an avatar but its not showing, I tired to be different :'(

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Riferimento: Re: Riferimento: Bundesliga Ratings 2012/2013

Neither should rise. Ter Stegen done nothing to warrant a rise. Team performed worse' date=' he himself performed worse etc. this season.[/quote']

sure that neither will rise?

what about robben, that dropped recently but decided the final? And at last, kroos will rise also if he got a lot of injury?

thanks

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Re: Bundesliga Ratings 2012/2013

Who do you think BVB will take to replace Gotze & Lewandowski. For Lewandowski altough it is not official yet, it's only a matter of time before he transfers to Bayern. Thanks in advance :)

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Re: Bundesliga Ratings 2012/2013

Who do you think BVB will take to replace Gotze & Lewandowski. For Lewandowski altough it is not official yet' date=' it's only a matter of time before he transfers to Bayern. Thanks in advance :)[/quote']

De Bruyne, Eriksen AM Lukaku, Son, Negredo striker

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Re: Bundesliga Ratings 2012/2013

If you manage to get hold of the full 92 minute version of the game' date=' rather than just the highlights, you will see that Bayerns winning goal came from a bit of unsporting play from Boateng. He was simulating cramp, having committed a foul. Getting up limping at first, he saw the opening with the free kick beckoning, and - lo and behold - suddenly became cramp-free![/quote']

Absolute rubbish.

Recorded the replay just to see this as that claim was quite intriguing.

The foul happens at 87:50. He is up at 87:57 limping a bit backwards indeed, doesn't simulate a cramp at all though (why would he, we had very good chances before that (Alaba shot, Schweinsteiger shot) and clearly wanted to score another goal. No point in simulating anything as that would have only helped the tired Dortmund team.

Bayern players walk up the pitch, Dortmund players backwards. Boateng limps 3 steps backwards.

Dante passes the ball forwards to the spot of the foul and Javi Martinez actually straight away plays the free kick at 88:06 to the left to Alaba but the ref doesn't like it (ball was still rolling.. debatable).

So the ball is passed back again to the spot of the foul and now Boateng plays the free-kick at 88:15. That 25 seconds after the foul and a bit less than 20 seconds after he got up and after the freekick was actually executed but had to be put back.

So please, don't make up stuff that a player simulated, the Dortmund team with the big heart waited and then half a minute later the defense 50 meters down the pitch still wasn't set because of it :rolleyes:

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