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Re: Official Red Devils Thread

I'd be pretty livid with Moyes if he were to sell Kagawa and bring in Fellaini. That in no way' date=' shape or form improves our midfield options.

Starting to get a little concerned.[/quote']

Should of been concerned when Moyes came in anyway, there is a reason why Everton fans weren't that bothered when he left. I've always believed that bar one or two class players that United have every season a lot of the team is distinctly average and with that Fergie was an unreal manager and tactician and did so well to get the best out of every player. It's something I don't think Moyes has. Fergie's name is also a massive pull for players around the world i'm sure you would have got somebody with him in charge now. I've never rated Moyes, he should have won something at Everton and the financial tight string is a bit of a myth he got very good financial support at Everton add to that his record against the big teams is terrible. I stand by the fact I don't think Moyes will be succesful at United. Right now he's just happy to use Fergies team and not change anything.

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Re: Official Red Devils Thread

Ozil wasn't in Madrid's plans' date=' he aint going cheap! PSG and cheap is a rare combo :)[/quote']

Ozil's delivered for Madrid. Kagawa looked promising in his first season but I bet all of you hoped he'd push on more this season. I'm not sure Moyes realises how valuable he is and Woodward seems clueless too.

@Stifler, if that £4.4m is the difference between the defence we've had in the past 2 games and a competent one then it's an absolute bargain.

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Re: Official Red Devils Thread

Should of been concerned when Moyes came in anyway' date=' there is a reason why Everton fans weren't that bothered when he left. I've always believed that bar one or two class players that United have every season a lot of the team is distinctly average and with that Fergie was an unreal manager and tactician and did so well to get the best out of every player. It's something I don't think Moyes has. Fergie's name is also a massive pull for players around the world i'm sure you would have got somebody with him in charge now. I've never rated Moyes, he should have won something at Everton and the financial tight string is a bit of a myth he got very good financial support at Everton add to that his record against the big teams is terrible. I stand by the fact I don't think Moyes will be succesful at United. Right now he's just happy to use Fergies team and not change anything.[/quote']

I'll be very unhappy having looked at the business other clubs have done if Moyes decides not to add to the squad.

Yes we won the title comfortably last season but that was down to signing the right player at the right time.

It appears now more then ever that United need that kind of player in central midfield and I fear that without investment a midfield duo of Cleverly and Carrick simply isn't incisive enough to do damage to top teams.

Our flanks are ok for the season though I'd like them to be improved but centrally we are lacking and without Sir Alex I don't think we'll have enough of a boost in terms of mentality to compensate.

Today was one of the first days I've seen a United team with 5 mins left look dejected.

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Re: Official Red Devils Thread

I would be happy if we could just bring in someone like Coentrao and of course a midfielder like De Rossi would be fantastic although both signings pretty much won't happen. People saying Ozil? yeah he's fantastic and I would have him but do we really need a ATTACKING midfielder? Maybe but someone to replace Scholes in that more deep-lying playmaker role would be ideal.

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Re: Official Red Devils Thread

A few thoughts on Kagawa and United's style/formation in general.....

Because of the CM's we have at our disposal and a preference for having wingers/wide men in a flat 4 in midfield, in general we tend to play 4-4-1-1 / 4-4-2.

The issue with this is that you are choosing between Rooney and Kagawa rather than accommodating both. If you do play Kagawa in this system, he is also short of options when he is picking up the ball with either van persie or a pass out wide his usual option. It is far better suited to Rooney to be the number 10 in this system.

The other issue for us is that much of your attacking threat needs to come from your widemen and ours have had a collective dip in form for the past 12 months.

FIG1_zps61ca26c9.jpg

Most top teams have now also evolved into playing either a 4-2-3-1 system or a 4-3-3 system - either of which could potentially accommodate Kagawa.

In the below 4-2-3-1, we have full-back options that would give the width required however we are lacking CDM 2 to go alongside Carrick in order to pull it off effectively against other big sides.

The threat here comes from the interchange of your 3 AM's (ala Chelsea) and the width that your fullbacks provide.

One decent CDM and this system looks viable.

FIG2_zps5a825d30.jpg

Alternative 2 is adopting the 4-3-3 type system favoured by the Barca/Real/Bayerns of this world with the front 3 effectively given licence to play as they please and I feel a Kagawa/Rooney/RVP front-3 could work. the difficulty with this system is that we are two signings away from having the CM talent available to pull it off in big games.

FIG3_zps7cd05284.jpg

If the system doesn't change, I can only see Shinji playing a limited role as he did last year.

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Re: Official Red Devils Thread

A few thoughts on Kagawa and United's style/formation in general.....

Because of the CM's we have at our disposal and a preference for having wingers/wide men in a flat 4 in midfield' date=' in general we tend to play 4-4-1-1 / 4-4-2.

The issue with this is that you are choosing between Rooney and Kagawa rather than accommodating both. If you do play Kagawa in this system, he is also short of options when he is picking up the ball with either van persie or a pass out wide his usual option. It is far better suited to Rooney to be the number 10 in this system.

The other issue for us is that much of your attacking threat needs to come from your widemen and ours have had a collective dip in form for the past 12 months.

FIG1_zps61ca26c9.jpg

Most top teams have now also evolved into playing either a 4-2-3-1 system or a 4-3-3 system - either of which could potentially accommodate Kagawa.

In the below 4-2-3-1, we have full-back options that would give the width required however we are lacking CDM 2 to go alongside Carrick in order to pull it off effectively against other big sides.

The threat here comes from the interchange of your 3 AM's (ala Chelsea) and the width that your fullbacks provide.

One decent CDM and this system looks viable.

FIG2_zps5a825d30.jpg

Alternative 2 is adopting the 4-3-3 type system favoured by the Barca/Real/Bayerns of this world with the front 3 effectively given licence to play as they please and I feel a Kagawa/Rooney/RVP front-3 could work. the difficulty with this system is that we are two signings away from having the CM talent available to pull it off in big games.

FIG3_zps7cd05284.jpg

If the system doesn't change, I can only see Shinji playing a limited role as he did last year.

Rafael or Valencia for RB?Think its pretty clear who's our RB.

Nani or Welbeck?Nani's twice of a player :D

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Re: Official Red Devils Thread

It's been suggested before and he's also been tried there but why not stick Rooney next to Carrick? You saw today how useless RVP was when he didn't have service and that was due to having no link between your midfield and attack. You just had Welbeck dropping deep and he doesn't have the vision to make chances IMO, he's more of a poacher.

Even if you slot Kagawa into those formations Stifler, he's playing out of position and whilst Rooney is much more dynamic than Welbeck, he still lacks the technique of Shinji IMO. Kagawa was the best player in 11/12 for essentially the same team that reached the CL final last season and I think he's vastly underrated, even by those who rate him on here. I think a player of his class should be playing every week in his preferred role. Rooney's versatile enough to move to accommodate him.

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Re: Official Red Devils Thread

It's been suggested before and he's also been tried there but why not stick Rooney next to Carrick? You saw today how useless RVP was when he didn't have service and that was due to having no link between your midfield and attack. You just had Welbeck dropping deep and he doesn't have the vision to make chances IMO' date=' he's more of a poacher.

Even if you slot Kagawa into those formations Stifler, [b']he's playing out of position[/b] and whilst Rooney is much more dynamic than Welbeck, he still lacks the technique of Shinji IMO. Kagawa was the best player in 11/12 for essentially the same team that reached the CL final last season and I think he's vastly underrated, even by those who rate him on here. I think a player of his class should be playing every week in his preferred role. Rooney's versatile enough to move to accommodate him.

If he doesn;t play as an AM / WF, where does he play then? :confused:

The one thing we can't do is replicate his conditions at Dortmund - we don;t have the same players. His strengths lie in his technical ability in the final third of the pitch and his timing in arriving in the box - as long as the system he plays in provides freedom to pick up good positions and people running beyond him, it should work.

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Re: Official Red Devils Thread

Kagawa is such a class player and I could not understand why is Giggs playing ahead of Kagawa. He kinda remind me of Coutinho except that he is better than Coutinho in almost every aspect. Not to mention, its the best time to give Kagawa chance since Rooney was out. RvP looked dangerous every time he had the ball but he was not at the right position with proper service. Maybe you guys should free Kagawa if Moyes could not appreciate his talent.

Again, Cleverley is such a pointless player. Offered nothing forward and lack of communication with the team. Welbeck, created problems to Liverpool but again another pointless player if he can't create chances to the team or convert it to goals.

Really want to hear United fans saying Cleverley/Welbeck is a pointless player :D

Kagawa > Cleverley,Giggs,Welbeck.

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Re: Official Red Devils Thread

The problem with Kagawa is that he can only play that central attacking midfield position and nothing else.

You can't play him as a winger hence why Giggs plays ahead of him. You can't play him as one of the deeper central midfielders hence why Cleverley is playing ahead of him.

It's Sahin 2.0 basically. Big clubs just splashing out the money without thinking about how to accomodate the player and if he'd actually fit the system and if he is actually good enough as well.

Next problem with Kagawa is that even if you play him as an AMC, you have to sub him at the 60 minute mark as he is out of stamina.

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Re: Official Red Devils Thread

Japan you mean?

Still it's a bit early to rush for a friendly vs Guatemala on September 6th no?

Don't all international teams meet up at the start of the week before their games? They basically finish playing at the weekend or in Kagawa's case sitting at home twiddling his thumbs, and then leave for wherever they are playing internationally. I think that what happens anyway:)

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Re: Official Red Devils Thread

Guillem Balague has suggested that Baines and Fellaini will join us, as 2 European Clubs wanted to enquire about them, but were told not to bother as they were joining Man Utd.

Also apparently Ozil will reject Arsenal and fight for his place at Madrid, although a fee has apparently been agreed.

Might cry if he joins Arsenal

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Re: Official Red Devils Thread

Not sure why people are getting so hysterical about Kagawa. Moyes has been on record saying that the 2 pre-season games he had to turn up for in Japan set him back as far as fitness goes and it showed in the Sevilla game where he had a horror show. Moyes was not going to risk him with our tough start to the season. He'll get his chance soon enough.

And for me him drifting in from the left is no biggie. He does it for Japan with great success and was beginning to get show what he could do towards the end of last season.

Most top teams have now also evolved into playing either a 4-2-3-1 system or a 4-3-3 system - either of which could potentially accommodate Kagawa.

In the below 4-2-3-1' date=' we have full-back options that would give the width required however we are lacking CDM 2 to go alongside Carrick in order to pull it off effectively against other big sides.

The threat here comes from the interchange of your 3 AM's (ala Chelsea) and the width that your fullbacks provide.

One decent CDM and this system looks viable.

FIG2_zps5a825d30.jpg

That's our best team even with Cleverley in there. The only time we played that last season was in the 2nd half against Spurs where we were brilliant. All three are technically top draw and can play anywhere across the front three. And with Nani you have the option of either pushing him out wide or bringing him inside something Valencia doesn't really give.

However some things are becoming clear though. Nani is our best winger (and by some distance) and should start whenever fit. Giggs should never start, same goes for Young. Jones should either play CB or not play at all. Rafael should be first choice RB with his brother as the back up.

Woody needs to take the blame for this shambles of a transfer window. It beggars belief that we are apparently baulking at paying the 5m extra to meet Herrera's release clause.

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Re: Official Red Devils Thread

Herrara was an unused sub for Bilbao vs Real yesterday despite starting every other game, apparently Bilbao have asked United to stump up the release clause or he won't be leaving.

Even if we're overpaying we should still buy him, we're the biggest/one of the biggest clubs in the world and I'm not sure why we should be so scared to splash out the money, Glazers holding funds back?

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Re: Official Red Devils Thread

Herrara was an unused sub for Bilbao vs Real yesterday despite starting every other game' date=' apparently Bilbao have asked United to stump up the release clause or he won't be leaving.

Even if we're overpaying we should still buy him, we're the biggest/one of the biggest clubs in the world and I'm not sure why we should be so scared to splash out the money, Glazers holding funds back?[/quote']

He's not worth the asking price, that's why they won't stump up the cash.

For me, he's not worth half the asking price. Why pay that much for him when you can bang an extra buck on and get Ozil? Stupid Moyes & Woodward.

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