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Official Manchester United Thread


Rishabh Desai
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Re: Official Red Devils Thread

£30m for Fabregas. £25m for Lallana.

No brainer.

Il repeat what I said on the Liverpool thread, taking the fee in isolation is irrelevant you need to factor in wages which you can imagine Fabregas will be say £100k a week more than Lallana so give em both a five year contract say Fab is about 180k and Lallana at a reported 70k and Fabregas costs about 75m and Lallana costs about 42m....

Fans need to recognise that taking just a fee at face value is naive....

Also and an even bigger point to address is what actually suits your style of play, look at Chelsea's handling of Mata who was jettisoned out because of the exact same reasons I don't see Fabregas fitting in at Liverpool.....

Style of play and how a player compliments that, more important than a solitary monetary value......people sometimes need to look beyond the obvious...

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Re: Official Red Devils Thread

Il repeat what I said on the Liverpool thread' date=' taking the fee in isolation is irrelevant you need to factor in wages which you can imagine Fabregas will be say £100k a week more than Lallana so give em both a five year contract say Fab is about 180k and Lallana at a reported 70k and Fabregas costs about 75m and Lallana costs about 42m....

Fans need to recognise that taking just a fee at face value is naive....

Also and an even bigger point to address is what actually suits your style of play, look at Chelsea's handling of Mata who was jettisoned out because of the exact same reasons I don't see Fabregas fitting in at Liverpool.....

Style of play and how a player compliments that, more important than a solitary monetary value......people sometimes need to look beyond the obvious...[/quote']

I never claimed to look at anything other than the initial transfer fee.

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Re: Official Red Devils Thread

I never claimed to look at anything other than the initial transfer fee.

Well there in lies the problem you need to....

not every club is like Chelsea, City and can throw money around like Confetti..

Clubs have to take everything into consideration before knowing the full price of a "deal" which includes wages, agents fees etc etc....

30m for Fabregas is just a base it aint his true cost to a football club, he is an absolutely huge investment for any club.....

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Re: Official Red Devils Thread

30m for Fabregas is just a base it aint his true cost to a football club' date=' he is an absolutely huge investment for any [b']big[/b] club.....

That's why Liverpool won't buy him ;)

I understand what you mean but I think another valid point comes in the form of perception.

Now if you sign Lallana, which is very possible, you'll be getting a great British talent for about the going rate for British talents. But he'll have the stigma of Downing and Carroll's overpriced failures hanging over him in the press (despite being much better than both) and isn't considered by many in international football to be anywhere near a world class signing.

Contrast that with Fabregas and it's a real statment about where your club is heading. Bagging one of the best CM's in the world could be huge for Liverpool especially if Rodgers is able to adapt him to your system (which let's face it he could do because he make Henderson a very good player!) and eventually Fabregas could go on to replace Gerrard as your deep playmaker.

I think while there is hidden costs to a fee the bonus of having such a talented (arguably world class CM) in your side is too much to put a price on especially when those kind of talents only come along once every blue moon.

Speaking of blue moons I wouldn't be surprised if he goes to City because they are a side who unfortunately have enough money and sense at the moment to bag the big players.

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Re: Official Red Devils Thread

That's why Liverpool won't buy him ;)

I understand what you mean but I think another valid point comes in the form of perception.

Now if you sign Lallana' date=' which is very possible, you'll be getting a great British talent for about the going rate for British talents. But he'll have the stigma of Downing and Carroll's overpriced failures hanging over him in the press (despite being much better than both) and isn't considered by many in international football to be anywhere near a world class signing.

Contrast that with Fabregas and it's a real statment about where your club is heading. Bagging one of the best CM's in the world could be huge for Liverpool especially if Rodgers is able to adapt him to your system (which let's face it he could do because he make Henderson a very good player!) and eventually Fabregas could go on to replace Gerrard as your deep playmaker.

I think while there is hidden costs to a fee the bonus of having such a talented (arguably world class CM) in your side is too much to put a price on especially when those kind of talents only come along once every blue moon.

Speaking of blue moons I wouldn't be surprised if he goes to City because they are a side who unfortunately have enough money and sense at the moment to bag the big players.[/quote']

Let me know who you draw in the Champions League won't you being such a big club I look forward to hearing all about it....:)

I have explained previously why I think he would not fit and we ain't going to make that kinda investment in a single player, it won't happen and TBH if we were to be interested in anybody from Barca I would be sure Rodgers would rather look at a Sanchez or Pedro.

Lallana won't suffer because of of past players he like anybody else wherever he is will be judged by performances as I say I fully expect people to think I am bonkers but I think he is a much better fit for our style than Fabregas who slows everything down, plays at his own pace, does not press well etc.

You have him I really won't be bothered.

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Re: Official Red Devils Thread

Let me know who you draw in the Champions League won't you being such a big club I look forward to hearing all about it....:)

:P

I have explained previously why I think he would not fit and we ain't going to make that kinda investment in a single player' date=' it won't happen and TBH if we were to be interested in anybody from Barca I would be sure Rodgers would rather look at a Sanchez or Pedro.

Lallana won't suffer because of of past players he like anybody else wherever he is will be judged by performances as I say I fully expect people to think I am bonkers but I think he is a much better fit for our style than Fabregas who slows everything down, plays at his own pace, does not press well etc.

You have him I really won't be bothered.[/quote']

I understand and have seen your posts on it but I'd stand by the fact that a player like Fabregas could adapt to your style under a great manager like Rodgers and be beneficial long term.

But I would also say that for Liverpool this transfer window should be about adding quality depth over too many first team players for high fees as really your starting 11 is in good condition to make it top 4 it's just your squad that is lacking.

The recent signing of Lambert (congrats btw he's a good signing) is indicative of this stance and I'd wager that they'll be one or 2 sub £10m signings overall from you guys this window.

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Re: Official Red Devils Thread

The only difficulty with a player like Fabregas is that he'll undoubtedly improve the team that he does sign for significantly. I don't think that signing players to prevent rivals from strengthening is a good idea, but I'd much rather see City pay £30m for Fabregas even if he doesn't quite fit than see Chelsea pay £30m for him and he fit right in.

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Re: Official Red Devils Thread

The only difficulty with a player like Fabregas is that he'll undoubtedly improve the team that he does sign for significantly. I don't think that signing players to prevent rivals from strengthening is a good idea' date=' but I'd much rather see City pay £30m for Fabregas even if he doesn't quite fit than see Chelsea pay £30m for him and he fit right in.[/quote']

Or why not just stay in Spain? :P

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Re: Official Red Devils Thread

I understand and have seen your posts on it but I'd stand by the fact that a player like Fabregas could adapt to your style under a great manager like Rodgers and be beneficial long term.

But I would also say that for Liverpool this transfer window should be about adding quality depth over too many first team players for high fees as really your starting 11 is in good condition to make it top 4 it's just your squad that is lacking.

The recent signing of Lambert (congrats btw he's a good signing) is indicative of this stance and I'd wager that they'll be one or 2 sub £10m signings overall from you guys this window.

With the wages etc is exactly why we won't because it drains funds from the task of adding to the squad....unfortunatley we don't have the finance that a Chelsea, City, United have so have to go accordingly. If we take it that the Moreno deal is very close to completion that is probably a 1/3 to a 1/4 of our funds gone and add what we get in sales.

If United could convince him to sign again yes it is a "statement" but again I ain't sure he is really what you need I ain't sure he is a great fit in a two in midfield, in a three I can see him being a much bigger success but again he will want the space which Rooney, Kagawa, Mata etc all want in terms of position in the pitch..

I have a sneaky feeling Fabregas might end up at Chelsea, however personally I would love him to join Spurs just if nothing else to see the hissy fit on the Arsenal Thread :P

I accept this wont happen but a pleasant thought :)

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Re: Official Red Devils Thread

I don't really wanna discuss Fabregas too much

Two pages later :P

Going back to my original post. I still feel we should be concentrating more on players that we desperately need, players such as Strootman / Carvalho rather than adding players to a position where we seemingly have fairly decent options (Rooney, Mata, Kagawa).

Of course, in an ideal world I could come out and say 'let's sign Fabregas, Strootman and Carvalho' but that's just fantasy football and I'm a realist.

I just don't want United signing players as they have done in the past which leads to us neglecting the huge voids in our squad. The papers can't make up their minds at present, first Barca weren't interested in selling, now they want rid. First United wanted Cesc, then didn't, now want him again.

Although I love the transfer windows but am more often than not, let down by the reality of them. This one is just crazy!

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Re: Official Red Devils Thread

Two pages later :P

Going back to my original post. I still feel we should be concentrating more on players that we desperately need' date=' players such as Strootman / Carvalho rather than adding players to a position where we seemingly have fairly decent options (Rooney, Mata, Kagawa).

Of course, in an ideal world I could come out and say 'let's sign Fabregas, Strootman and Carvalho' but that's just fantasy football and I'm a realist.

I just don't want United signing players as they have done in the past which leads to us neglecting the huge voids in our squad. The papers can't make up their minds at present, first Barca weren't interested in selling, now they want rid. First United wanted Cesc, then didn't, now want him again.

Although I love the transfer windows but am more often than not, let down by the reality of them. This one is just crazy![/quote']

I know I wanted to avoid this mindless drivel but it's pulled me in :P

I agree I'd rather we get the key positions all done then have one big name but I would never say no to a player of his quality.

It's been the worst window for speculation to date IMO worse than last year!

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Re: Official Red Devils Thread

I know I wanted to avoid this mindless drivel but it's pulled me in :P

I agree I'd rather we get the key positions all done then have one big name but I would never say no to a player of his quality.

It's been the worst window for speculation to date IMO worse than last year!

Sometimes it's impossible to avoid being caught up in the transfer madness :P I try to avoid it as much as possible in all honesty.

I know who I'd like to see come in and they don't necessarily need to be players deemed 'world class'.

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Re: Official Red Devils Thread

Great to see so many of our talented players representing there countries in Brazil.

Despite our poor season we have a great squad of players and with the addition of a few new recruits and a dictator as a manager to lead us we will be back to our old selves in no time.

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Re: Official Red Devils Thread

Great to see so many of our talented players representing there countries in Brazil.

Despite our poor season we have a great squad and with the addition of a few new recruits and a dictator as a manager to lead us we will be back to our old selves in no time.

I'm probably gonna be slaughtered for saying this in the United thread, but here it goes: I don't think you guys have a great squad. You definitely have players to do better than you did this season, but you need to sign at least 3 or 4 quality players.

You really have to bring in some young blood, mainly for your defence imo. Your midfield also needs strengthening.

I'd get rid of Nani, Smalling and Cleverley, too. I reckon a big club, like United, could find much better alternatives.

And, in the next 1-2 seasons, you have to start thinking about replacing some very good players (like Carrick and RVP), who aren't getting any younger.

I'm sure this will be a very active Summer for United. :D

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Re: Official Red Devils Thread

I'm probably gonna be slaughtered for saying this in the United thread' date=' but here it goes: I don't think you guys have a great squad. You definitely have players to do better than you did this season, but you need to sign at least 3 or 4 quality players.

You really have to bring in some young blood, mainly for your defence imo. Your midfield also needs strengthening.

I'd get rid of Nani, Smalling and Cleverley, too. I reckon a big club, like United, could find much better alternatives.

And, in the next 1-2 seasons, you have to start thinking about replacing some very good players (like Carrick and RVP), who aren't getting any younger.

I'm sure this will be a very active Summer for United. :D[/quote']

You have basically just said the same thing that has been written here by other fans/supporters or haters.

Everyone knows we need to shape up our defense because clearly we lost Vidic/Ferdinand.

Those players you mentioned we need to get rid of have been spoken about numerous times on here about them moving on or aren't good enough.

Carrick and RVP can stay for some time.

Flick back a few pages and read the posts by others and you will see what you have written is the most obvious that could be written.

Blind Freddy knows we need to fix up our defense and bring in a solid mid or 2.

We don't have a great squad but we have many great/good individual players.

smileys-rabbits-401599.gif

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Re: Official Red Devils Thread

You have basically just said the same thing that has been written here by other fans/supporters or haters.

Everyone knows we need to shape up our defense because clearly we lost Vidic/Ferdinand.

Those players you mentioned we need to get rid of have been spoken about numerous times on here about them moving on or aren't good enough.

Carrick and RVP can stay for some time.

Flick back a few pages and read the posts by others and you will see what you have written is the most obvious that could be written.

Blind Freddy knows we need to fix up our defense and bring in a solid mid or 2.

We don't have a great squad but we have many great/good individual players.

smileys-rabbits-401599.gif

Alright, I rarely visit this thread, so I didn't know you guys felt that way. :o

But I don't think United have many top players either.

Imo those players are De Gea, Carrick, RVP (who won't have many years left at the highest level, I think), Mata and Rooney.

Then you have Januzaj, who has big potential, but is still very young. Apart from that, I believe United don't have that much quality tbh.

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Re: Official Red Devils Thread

I'm probably gonna be slaughtered for saying this in the United thread' date=' but here it goes: I don't think you guys have a great squad. You definitely have players to do better than you did this season, but you need to sign at least [b']3 or 4 quality players.[/b]

You really have to bring in some young blood, mainly for your defence imo. Your midfield also needs strengthening.

I'd get rid of Nani, Smalling and Cleverley, too. I reckon a big club, like United, could find much better alternatives.

And, in the next 1-2 seasons, you have to start thinking about replacing some very good players (like Carrick and RVP), who aren't getting any younger.

I'm sure this will be a very active Summer for United. :D

Slaughtered? Why? You'd probably get slaughtered for saying the opposite.

I would have agreed with you on the "3 or 4 quality players", but bear in mind that this is still the exact same team that won the title under Ferguson, albeit with a few "reinforcements".

In no way am I implying that LvG and SAF are on the same level, but LvG has a proven experience to get the best out of his players, which is in theory the only thing Fergie needed to do.

The strengthening speaks for itself, with the amount of (expected) departures.

I personally wouldn't get rid of Smalling, Nani and, God forbid, Cleverly yet. We all know what Nani is "capable" of. What we don't know is whether the old fireworks will reignite under LvG or whether he'll sink deeper into his despair.

What Smalling and Cleverly need is a fixed position at the moment. Both have not had any definitive role under Moyes, and even under SAF in Cleverly's case, which makes it hard for a player to become good in a particular aspect of play.

I believe that, with a bit of (very) good coaching, Smalling can be a reliable CB, which would save the cost of overspending on someone like Mangala. That doesn't mean that United shouldn't worry about looking for a new CB though. After all, one of their best CB duo's has just been dismantled.

And now it's my time to get slaughtered, but I believe that, to a certain extent, that could be the case with Cleverly as well, although the CM spot really needs a new face. Cleverly could still be a useful utility player in my opinion (à la James Milner), considering he gets the right coaching.

I'm not terribly worried about Carrick and RvP to be honest. LvG will definitely do a decent job with his compatriot, and as for Carrick, well, LvG did get the best out of MvB, so that might just work out for him too.

And finally, as many are saying that this will be a busy summer, I believe quite the opposite. I have absolutely no trust in that clown who goes by the name of Edward Woodward. The whole Shaw situation says enough really.

So yes, while Chelsea, Liverpool and all the other big clubs are getting their targets, United watch and wait. I predict two players to come, tops, of which one might even be an abundance. But with low expectations come massive surprises (if there are any), so patience is the key at the moment.

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Re: Official Red Devils Thread

Slaughtered? Why? You'd probably get slaughtered for saying the opposite.

I would have agreed with you on the "3 or 4 quality players"' date=' but bear in mind that this is still the exact same team that won the title under Ferguson, albeit with a few "reinforcements".

In no way am I implying that LvG and SAF are on the same level, but LvG has a proven experience to get the best out of his players, which is in theory the only thing Fergie needed to do.

The strengthening speaks for itself, with the amount of (expected) departures.

I personally wouldn't get rid of Smalling, Nani and, God forbid, Cleverly yet. We all know what Nani is "capable" of. What we don't know is whether the old fireworks will reignite under LvG or whether he'll sink deeper into his despair.

What Smalling and Cleverly need is a fixed position at the moment. Both have not had any definitive role under Moyes, and even under SAF in Cleverly's case, which makes it hard for a player to become good in a particular aspect of play.

I believe that, with a bit of (very) good coaching, Smalling can be a reliable CB, which would save the cost of overspending on someone like Mangala. That doesn't mean that United shouldn't worry about looking for a new CB though. After all, one of their best CB duo's has just been dismantled.

And now it's my time to get slaughtered, but I believe that, to a certain extent, that could be the case with Cleverly as well, although the CM spot really needs a new face. Cleverly could still be a useful utility player in my opinion (à la James Milner), considering he gets the right coaching.

I'm not terribly worried about Carrick and RvP to be honest. LvG will definitely do a decent job with his compatriot, and as for Carrick, well, LvG did get the best out of MvB, so that might just work out for him too.

And finally, as many are saying that this will be a busy summer, I believe quite the opposite. I have absolutely no trust in that clown who goes by the name of Edward Woodward. The whole Shaw situation says enough really.

So yes, while Chelsea, Liverpool and all the other big clubs are getting their targets, United watch and wait. I predict two players to come, tops, of which one might even be an abundance. But with low expectations come massive surprises (if there are any), so patience is the key at the moment.[/quote']

You make plenty of very good points.

I'd just like to add 2 things.

You're right: Utd has basically the same squad from when they were champions, for the last time.

But you guys had a slightly younger Evra, Ferdinand and Vidic, while you had a beast of a RVP.

And you still had one of the best coaches / managers in the history of football. But you're in good hands with van Gaal, from my point of view.

As for Nani, yes, he's capable of a lot more.

I feel it's more of a mental problem now. I honestly believe he needs a change of club and United would also benefit from that imo.

But don't get me wrong lads, United has a good squad. However, it hasn't got the same quality and depth as Chelsea and mainly City's, for me.

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