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Rishabh Desai

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By young I mean U21's perhaps I should have been more specific.

I would genuinely like to know of these 15 better young forwards because I look at the market and don't see much available to be honest.

1. Lacazette

2. Fekir

3. Vietto

4. Morata

5. Dybala

6. Berardi

7. Alcacer

8. Kane

9. Berahino

10. Lukaku

11. Jese

12. Volland

13. Firmino

14. Son

15. Destro

You could even make more of a case for players like Batshuayi, Zaza, Origi, Calum Wilson, at a stretch even Gabriel Barbosa.

Of course, u21 narrows it slightly but you get the gist.

You have to admit, the fee cannot be justified at all.

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1. Lacazette

2. Fekir

3. Vietto

4. Morata

5. Dybala

6. Berardi

7. Alcacer

8. Kane

9. Berahino

10. Lukaku

11. Jese

12. Volland

13. Firmino

14. Son

15. Destro

You could even make more of a case for players like Batshuayi' date=' Zaza, Origi, Calum Wilson, at a stretch even Gabriel Barbosa.

Of course, u21 narrows it slightly but you get the gist.

You have to admit, the fee cannot be justified at all.[/quote']

I don't agree with many of those selections but you're entitled to your opinion.

The thing is Martial is only 19 too so he has a good 4 years worth of development on some of the players you mentioned above before you can start to look at a more finished package.

Nobody on here or that I have spoken to has tried to justify the player as being a great one but undoubtedly he has some potential, his physical attributes are already of a good enough standard and from what I understand and have heard he is not exactly poor technically either.

What also needs to be factored in is that some of the above players are not available or do not fit the style of the PL and the type of player that Manchester United needs.

The only players I would like from that list at United are Lacazette, Kane and Morata but none of them are up for grabs this window and when you consider that Martial is 3 years younger than Morata and Kane and 5 years younger than Lacazette you see how much room he has to develop.

£36m is a high fee no question about it and Martial is not in his current ability worth that amount but it would be naive of anybody to suggest he will not be worth that and then some in 3 - 5 years time when he can realistically be expected to be performing at a level at or maybe even above all of the forwards you mention.

I will however controversially say this, if Martial at 19 is £36m then Sterling at £49m is not as laughable as I first felt the market is officially silly money now.

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I will however controversially say this' date=' if Martial at 19 is £36m then Sterling at £49m is not as laughable as I first felt the market is officially silly money now.[/quote']

You can't list Sterling's price with all of the add-ons (dependent on PL and CL titles) and compare to Martial's without. Looks like the media have got you conned on that one. I'd also suggest that a fair chunk of Martial's extras will be based on games and goals, rather than team success considering they amount to over £20m and Monaco seem fairly confident of getting them.

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[uSER=7425]Ben C[/uSER] all of those players listed are better than Martial, and a high majority will probably remain better too.

Some were unobtainable yes, but a lot weren't.

I love transfer deadline day for the transfer manic-ness but I hate it for the constant nothing there rumours.

The latest being Utd only wanting to pay £50m for Reus and not the £60m Dortmund asked for. If that ever turns out the be true that is major LOLZ. Surely it can't be though, surely...

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Martial - only played 50+ games infront for 12,000 Monaco fans

Martial - let see if he makes an impact

People was and still are talking about Shaw value and he is proving himself

Everyone knows United has Money and want to get as much out of them

Redknapp was tallking about Mata being the number 10 and Martial talking his spot as United lacks pace that side, just see what LVG does

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You can't list Sterling's price with all of the add-ons (dependent on PL and CL titles) and compare to Martial's without. Looks like the media have got you conned on that one. I'd also suggest that a fair chunk of Martial's extras will be based on games and goals' date=' rather than team success considering they amount to over £20m and Monaco seem fairly confident of getting them.[/quote']

Not conned at all Stu merely ignorance on the Sterling fee front.

If you look Martial's add ons they rely on him becoming Golden Boy, Ballon D'or and top PL goal scorer if he gets any of them then he'll be doing a very good job for United!

So not just getting a handful of goals and appearances...

I was actually being complimentary towards the business Manchester City have done hence saying controversial...

If they are confident of getting them then I am delighted and we might have a player better than anyone realises or they are deluded only time will tell.

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For £36M, United could have probably signed Harry Kane - a striker who is at his best with a secondary striker near/behind him. Rooney's days as a lone striker are numbered (if not over), and if anything, Rooney and Kane could have formed a formidable partnership up front. Even for a few million more he would have been worth it, as his game is that of a true striker - Martial's game isn't.

I do look forward to seeing him play, but he has a LOT of work to do before justifying the fee, which is still absurd to say the least.

Don't forget that Mendes is a vile being; willing to screw over his most loyal customers if it meant he would be pocketing some extra change. The guy has a despicable attitude towards customers, and Falcao is still one of his prize assets, so if anything, he would care more for him than for his other clients.

As for the hypotheses, I have to be honest and say that I mostly got them from other forums and discussion pages, so by no means reliable; hence "hypotheses". The main reason as to why I would believe this to be true is because of the inexplicable fee.

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For £36M' date=' United could have probably signed Harry Kane - a striker who is at his best with a secondary striker near/behind him. Rooney's days as a lone striker are numbered (if not over), and if anything, Rooney and Kane could have formed a formidable partnership up front. Even for a few million more he would have been worth it, as his game is that of a true striker - Martial's game isn't.

I do look forward to seeing him play, but he has a LOT of work to do before justifying the fee, which is still absurd to say the least.

Don't forget that Mendes is a vile being; willing to screw over his most loyal customers if it meant he would be pocketing some extra change. The guy has a despicable attitude towards customers, and Falcao is still one of his prize assets, so if anything, he would care more for him than for his other clients.

As for the hypotheses, I have to be honest and say that I mostly got them from other forums and discussion pages, so by no means reliable; hence "hypotheses". The main reason as to why I would believe this to be true is because of the inexplicable fee.[/quote']

Harry Kane couldnt even score a 1 on 1 vs Howard and Levy prob want 50+mil

I like to Martial play- see what impact he does, forget about the fee

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Not conned at all Stu merely ignorance on the Sterling fee front.

If you look Martial's add ons they rely on him becoming Golden Boy' date=' Ballon D'or and top PL goal scorer if he gets any of them then he'll be doing a very good job for United!

So not just getting a handful of goals and appearances...

I was actually being complimentary towards the business Manchester City have done hence saying controversial...

If they are confident of getting them then I am delighted and we might have a player better than anyone realises or they are deluded only time will tell.[/quote']

I heard £5mil if he gets Ballon D'or

He scored 9 goals last year, hope he can make find the net more

Man Utd been scouting him for months, he must of caught United eye

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Breakdown of the Martial fee:

€50M is the standard fee:

€30M paid up front - transaction probably happening right now.

€5M per year he finishes at United - payment being on the 31st of July. Over four years, this amounts to €20M.

€30M is the fees received from possible objectives:

€5M for every time he finishes top goalscorer in England - three times being the maximum [€15M].

€5M if he wins the Golden Boot - one time payment.

€10M if he wins the Ballon D'Or.

And let's face it; he's probably not going to get any of those any time soon.

€50M is still very, very steep...

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For £36M' date=' United could have probably signed Harry Kane - a striker who is at his best with a secondary striker near/behind him. Rooney's days as a lone striker are numbered (if not over), and if anything, Rooney and Kane could have formed a formidable partnership up front. Even for a few million more he would have been worth it, as his game is that of a true striker - Martial's game isn't.

I do look forward to seeing him play, but he has a LOT of work to do before justifying the fee, which is still absurd to say the least.

Don't forget that Mendes is a vile being; willing to screw over his most loyal customers if it meant he would be pocketing some extra change. The guy has a despicable attitude towards customers, and Falcao is still one of his prize assets, so if anything, he would care more for him than for his other clients.

As for the hypotheses, I have to be honest and say that I mostly got them from other forums and discussion pages, so by no means reliable; hence "hypotheses". The main reason as to why I would believe this to be true is because of the inexplicable fee.[/quote']

I can promise you now there is no way Manchester United could have signed Harry Kane for £36m. Young English CF off the back of a 30 goal season for Spurs with Daniel Levy as chairman, United would have been bled dry to a similar fee like Sterling's £50m.

Now I am not saying I would have cared had that happened, I do like Kane and hope he does well again this season even for Spurs, but it's not true to suggest we could have bought him for £36m. He has a long contract, is English, had a great season and Levy is involved...

There is no reason Rooney and Martial can't be formidable in the future, Martial offers us something we've lacked in our attack since Saha, pace and technique. Kane's game is well suited to the PL if he gets the service, Martial has the pace that he can run onto loose balls etc and worry a slower CB, think Gomis VS Blind only 19 year old who will only improve.

I absolutely agree he has a LOT to do to come close to justifying his £36m but I really do not believe this has been a knee jerk signing. We've scouted him since he was 14/15 I have heard and those in the know in France are absolutely gutted he's leaving the French league so soon in his development.

This is what I mean about these hypotheses, I know Mendes is a dirty puppet master but Manchester United had no obligation to Falcao otherwise they would be in a legal battle now. The fee for me is entirely explicable when viewed in the context of this window. Every club knew with RVP, Falcao and Hernandez gone United needed an attacker, AS Monaco made United pay for that need and at 19 years old there is potential for a lot of resale value. I really doubt Monaco would insist on the types of clauses they put in if they felt they had no chance of ever receiving those payments.

Anyway he's our new number 9 so I will get behind him 100% when he plays at OT and give him a very warm welcome on behalf of the forum Martial law is now in effect!

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I can promise you now there is no way Manchester United could have signed Harry Kane for £36m. Young English CF off the back of a 30 goal season for Spurs with Daniel Levy as chairman' date=' United would have been bled dry to a similar fee like Sterling's £50m.

Now I am not saying I would have cared had that happened, I do like Kane and hope he does well again this season even for Spurs, but it's not true to suggest we could have bought him for £36m. He has a long contract, is English, had a great season and Levy is involved...

There is no reason Rooney and Martial can't be formidable in the future, Martial offers us something we've lacked in our attack since Saha, pace and technique. Kane's game is well suited to the PL if he gets the service, Martial has the pace that he can run onto loose balls etc and worry a slower CB, think Gomis VS Blind only 19 year old who will only improve.

I absolutely agree he has a LOT to do to come close to justifying his £36m but I really do not believe this has been a knee jerk signing. We've scouted him since he was 14/15 I have heard and those in the know in France are absolutely gutted he's leaving the French league so soon in his development.

This is what I mean about these hypotheses, I know Mendes is a dirty puppet master but Manchester United had no obligation to Falcao otherwise they would be in a legal battle now. The fee for me is entirely explicable when viewed in the context of this window. Every club knew with RVP, Falcao and Hernandez gone United needed an attacker, AS Monaco made United pay for that need and at 19 years old there is potential for a lot of resale value. I really doubt Monaco would insist on the types of clauses they put in if they felt they had no chance of ever receiving those payments.

Anyway he's our new number 9 so I will get behind him 100% when he plays at OT and give him a very warm welcome on behalf of the forum Martial law is now in effect![/quote']

Added "a few million more", but guaranteed, Levy would have made United's life a living hell. For all it's worth, they could have placed a similar bid on Kane and seen the effect of it. Levy might seem like the "shrewd money mastermind", but he's got his fair share of flaws as well. An offer of say £40M might have just started to get him slightly dizzy, especially with the "one season wonder" tags already starting to surface. And let's face it, Levy is absolutely clueless when it comes to actual football; he's a finance figure and that's basically it.

Also, I must reinstate that I'm very familiar with Martial's game, but there was a small thing I forgot to add in my quoted post. As I mentioned, Kane is, for me, the "ideal" striker - Shearer's doppelgänger when it comes to style and general mentality - a guy who can create danger from absolutely everywhere, and that without having to make it "fancy", so to say. The last person United signed "of that kind" was Ruud van Nistelrooy, and the rest is history.

However, Martial does have the added advantage of versatility - a smaller frame, but deceivingly strong and lightning fast [i'd hazard a guess and say that he'd give guys like Bellerin and Walcott a run for their money (no pun intended)]. He could be a figure to feature on the wing, although in my opinion, he would be sort of wasted there, as I believe him to be capable of offering more as a striker. His finishing is definitely one of those things people tend to blast, without having a fair idea of how his finishing actually is, and it's pretty good. For one, he's got two good feet, with his right having a pretty potent shot.

Bearing in mind that Monaco are an incredibly defensive team [if the Chelsea guys are "parking the bus", these guys are "bringing in a whole depot of busses"; it's really that bad (or good) at times], meaning that the forwards have very little to work with (Yannick FC and Berbatov also struggled because of this), but despite that, he was involved in 25% of Monaco's goals last season, which is pretty decent. His dribbling is okay; nothing exquisite, as he does tend to rely on pace and power, but he could pass his man pretty easily on his day. His positional play is at times excellent, at times woeful. Some games he was easily able to create acres of space (and a lot of danger in the process), whilst in others he was making, frankly, daft runs, hindering his team mates more often than not. His passing does need a lot of improvement - much like Januzaj; at times he does find some excellent passes, but his general passing play is inconsistent, ergo poor, but if anything, it's a determinant, as the team plays a huge role in the way an individual distributes.

To conclude, he is an incredibly hard worker (ever since our days "sur l'île") and determined to succeed, and will definitely put in a shift when asked to do so. Not complacent either, which means that he won't blow Louis' fusebox too quickly.

Bearing all of that in mind; all I can hope for right now is that his explosiveness will "wake up" United's soporific attack sooner rather than later. As you say, it is perfectly possible that Martial and Rooney form a great partnership too, but I'm not betting my money on anything as yet, as more than the actual player, I have absolutely no faith in Louis. I didn't like his initial appointment, and until now, he's not done anything to make me change my mind.

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Added "a few million more"' date=' but guaranteed, Levy would have made United's life a living hell. For all it's worth, they could have placed a similar bid on Kane and seen the effect of it. Levy might seem like the "shrewd money mastermind", but he's got his fair share of flaws as well. An offer of say £40M might have just started to get him slightly dizzy, especially with the "one season wonder" tags already starting to surface. And let's face it, Levy is absolutely clueless when it comes to actual football; he's a finance figure and that's basically it.

Also, I must reinstate that I'm very familiar with Martial's game, but there was a small thing I forgot to add in my quoted post. As I mentioned, Kane is, for me, the "ideal" striker - Shearer's doppelgänger when it comes to style and general mentality - a guy who can create danger from absolutely everywhere, and that without having to make it "fancy", so to say. The last person United signed "of that kind" was Ruud van Nistelrooy, and the rest is history.

However, Martial does have the added advantage of versatility - a smaller frame, but deceivingly strong and lightning fast [i'd hazard a guess and say that he'd give guys like Bellerin and Walcott a run for their money (no pun intended)']. He could be a figure to feature on the wing, although in my opinion, he would be sort of wasted there, as I believe him to be capable of offering more as a striker. His finishing is definitely one of those things people tend to blast, without having a fair idea of how his finishing actually is, and it's pretty good. For one, he's got two good feet, with his right having a pretty potent shot.

Bearing in mind that Monaco are an incredibly defensive team [if the Chelsea guys are "parking the bus", these guys are "bringing in a whole depot of busses"; it's really that bad (or good) at times], meaning that the forwards have very little to work with (Yannick FC and Berbatov also struggled because of this), but despite that, he was involved in 25% of Monaco's goals last season, which is pretty decent. His dribbling is okay; nothing exquisite, as he does tend to rely on pace and power, but he could pass his man pretty easily on his day. His positional play is at times excellent, at times woeful. Some games he was easily able to create acres of space (and a lot of danger in the process), whilst in others he was making, frankly, daft runs, hindering his team mates more often than not. His passing does need a lot of improvement - much like Januzaj; at times he does find some excellent passes, but his general passing play is inconsistent, ergo poor, but if anything, it's a determinant, as the team plays a huge role in the way an individual distributes.

To conclude, he is an incredibly hard worker (ever since our days "sur l'île") and determined to succeed, and will definitely put in a shift when asked to do so. Not complacent either, which means that he won't blow Louis' fusebox too quickly.

Bearing all of that in mind; all I can hope for right now is that his explosiveness will "wake up" United's soporific attack sooner rather than later. As you say, it is perfectly possible that Martial and Rooney form a great partnership too, but I'm not betting my money on anything as yet, as more than the actual player, I have absolutely no faith in Louis. I didn't like his initial appointment, and until now, he's not done anything to make me change my mind.

I feel we haven't pursued Kane because he isn't a make something from nothing player and never will be. That isn't to say he cannot go on to be a very good striker but he is, like most, reliant on his service. You can see this season what Kane is like without constant service he isn't someone who will suddenly break through and game change (again I would have still loved to have him here). Kane isn't the 2nd coming of Shearer, he's a bigger lad who is a bit more mobile than most and works hard but Shearer was a monster! He certainly won't ever be United's next Ruud van Nistelrooy who lacked everything Kane has physically but excelled at positioning and finishing with aplomb. That man could finish a sentence before it had started.

Now you look at the side Martial has come from and I largely agree with your views on him having done my homework (not Youtube skill videos) however I feel I am probably more optimistic in my view of him based on the same ideas you have.

He's surprisingly strong for his age and he is rapid, something our attack is screaming out for and when you look at him he certainly can finish. I do believe he has better control that many feel, in fact I was pleasantly surprised by some examples in high profile matches of him rolling the ball and shifting it forward with pace and I am very pleased having seen him work on both feet from a young age so that he can genuinely use both to a good standard.

I agree Monaco haven't provided much service to him but when he has been given the ball he wants to drive forward. As a winger/forward he heads straight for goal which is why I feel he sometimes gets in the way and closes off space but that all comes down to maturity and training. The fact is his instinct is to get to goal which is something I love to see in young forwards with pace, directness. He also runs at people when he does so and instantly defenders hate that, they back off which is something they haven't been doing with Rooney who no longer does this. He isn't a playmaker and I'd agree most people feel this could be improved but he can play some nice balls.

I think if LVG can get Martial to think about when to run wide, when to cut inside and train his decision making we could see him develop quite nicely quite quickly. I think his physical attributes alone combined with surprisingly good technique might surprise doubters. I certainly hope so at least.

I think with LVG you have to realise just how huge a job he has on his hands. He has had to tear most of our players out and shift a Noah's ark worth of dead wood. Think about all the players sold and all those bought, we have sold pretty much every useless player we've had since Fergie and replaced them with players capable of doing something, or young enough to have time to prove themselves.

I can't turn around and say I'm 100% delighted by everything LVG has done but at the same time he has made our squad younger, hungrier for success, cut our wage bill, added quality where needed and showed confidence that has taken us from 7th to 4th and I am genuinely convinced this season we will be moving to 3rd/2nd with De Gea in goal.

We are not title challengers but IMO we are 1 season and 1 top player (Bale, Muller, Reus etc) away from that happening and I do believe next summer we will add the final piece of the puzzle.

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Here's how I would view United's transfer window:

Goalkeepers

Romero is not good enough. He's already cost you points that De Gea would have saved against Swansea and it says something that he was available as a free agent. I don't think De Gea still being at the club is anything to shout about - he'll be in no mood to play and is bound to be angry at United (justly or not) that a deal couldn't be pushed through. Plus, Van Gaal is far too stubborn to start picking him now. The same goes for Valdes, who Van Gaal has also fallen out with. With the sale of Lindegaard, that realistically leaves you with Johnstone backing up Romero. Nowhere near top class.

The farcical nature of the De Gea transfer reflects badly on both United and Real.

Defence

Darmian is a good player and a definite upgrade on Rafael. I can't believe you haven't signed a top class CB. You thought you were getting Hummels at the start of the window, then Ramos as part of a De Gea deal and then interest in Otamendi. After all that you're left with a pairing of Smalling and Blind with Rojo seemingly also falling out with Van Gaal and Jones injured. Shaw has been OK since the start of the season. Massive questions about depth though - you'll have to play a lot more games this season than last and are already resorting to Blind (a DM) at CB. I don't think you've got any bespoke backups at full back with players like Smalling, Jones, Valencia and Blind having to move out of their comfortable positions to provide cover.

Deeper Midfield

The best improvements are here. With Schneiderlin, Carrick, Schweinsteiger, Blind and possibly Herrera you have a group of fairly solid players. I do think Schweinsteiger is a little bit past it though (he's given away possession a lot so far) and he might be on too high a wage to not play regularly.

Attacking Midfield

Depay could turn out to be a good signing but he's hardly set thee league alight so far and was definitely a gamble coming from the far inferior Dutch league. Mata's decent but IMO you have to put Herrera in the hole behind the striker or you really lack creativity. Again, maybe lacking depth after letting Januzaj go.

Strikers

Rooney's off the pace and you've decided to support him with a completely untested 19 year old who's immediately under enormous pressure due to the incredible fee paid for him and that you also have no depth here either (unless you really want to count Fellaini). Selling Hernandez and Van Persie (and losing Falcao) without bringing in a senior striker is very daft IMO. Martial has only completed 6 games in his entire career and 8 of his 9 goals last season were against teams in the bottom half of a much worse league than the PL. He is the biggest gamble I can remember ever seeing a club take on a player.

In short, I don't think you've really improved this summer since the effective loss of De Gea will cost you more points than the unproven attacking players you've brought in are likely to add. You've lost an awful lot of depth as well with more games on your calendar since you're back in the CL. You may well get in the top 4 again but I find it incredible that that's the aim after the amount of money Van Gaal has spent making the team his. I find it even more incredible, the easy ride the media are giving you for apparently having no title credentials despite the money spent. When City had spent a similar amount we were being derided for not winning the Champions League, yet alone competing for domestic honours.

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Here's how I would view United's transfer window:

Goalkeepers

Romero is not good enough. He's already cost you points that De Gea would have saved against Swansea and it says something that he was available as a free agent. I don't think De Gea still being at the club is anything to shout about - he'll be in no mood to play and is bound to be angry at United (justly or not) that a deal couldn't be pushed through. Plus' date=' Van Gaal is far too stubborn to start picking him now. The same goes for Valdes, who Van Gaal has also fallen out with. With the sale of Lindegaard, that realistically leaves you with Johnstone backing up Romero. Nowhere near top class.

The farcical nature of the De Gea transfer reflects badly on both United and Real.

Goalkeeper - IMO Romero didn't cost United points, the whole squad are to blame vs Swansea. LVG and De Gea are reportingly gonna resolve their relationship and hopefully De Gea will be back. He bound to angry, yes but I think he is professional enough to put that aside. LVG might put him back in goal, LVG said Romero hasn't impressed him or he number 1 keeper. Valdes - If he had problems, why didn't he move to Turkey? Who knows De Gea might(slight hope) sign a new deal with United.

Defence

Darmian is a good player and a definite upgrade on Rafael. I can't believe you haven't signed a top class CB. You thought you were getting Hummels at the start of the window, then Ramos as part of a De Gea deal and then interest in Otamendi. After all that you're left with a pairing of Smalling and Blind with Rojo seemingly also falling out with Van Gaal and Jones injured. Shaw has been OK since the start of the season. Massive questions about depth though - you'll have to play a lot more games this season than last and are already resorting to Blind (a DM) at CB. I don't think you've got any bespoke backups at full back with players like Smalling, Jones, Valencia and Blind having to move out of their comfortable positions to provide cover.

They all been great, I'm a glad to see no rotation like last year. Smalling been a beast, Blind has had good games but he the weak link cause of physical and pace therefore teams will target him, I've said many of times that he need bulking. I like LVG to give Rojo a try, I know they had a 'bust up' but Rojo wants to stay and fight for place, he could be like a new signing as he has that pace and physical part to his game. Jones should be back soon from the blood clot in his leg, You forgot McNair as back up.

Deeper Midfield

The best improvements are here. With Schneiderlin, Carrick, Schweinsteiger, Blind and possibly Herrera you have a group of fairly solid players. I do think Schweinsteiger is a little bit past it though (he's given away possession a lot so far) and he might be on too high a wage to not play regularly.

I agree, this is the area United been missing for years, Schweinsteiger needs he fitness up and he knows that by hiring a Munich physio to help him.

Attacking Midfield

Depay could turn out to be a good signing but he's hardly set thee league alight so far and was definitely a gamble coming from the far inferior Dutch league. Mata's decent but IMO you have to put Herrera in the hole behind the striker or you really lack creativity. Again, maybe lacking depth after letting Januzaj go.

LVG needs to find his best 3 in this area, Depay has alight in Europe but needs to do it in the league and I am sure he can do that, Mata - He is creative but lacks pace and likes to cut in which leaves a whole in the area or Darmain has to overwork. I am not sure on Herrera in the whole. IMO Januzaj needed a loan, he needs to quicken up his game and not hold onto the ball.

Strikers

Rooney's off the pace and you've decided to support him with a completely untested 19 year old who's immediately under enormous pressure due to the incredible fee paid for him and that you also have no depth here either (unless you really want to count Fellaini). Selling Hernandez and Van Persie (and losing Falcao) without bringing in a senior striker is very daft IMO. Martial has only completed 6 games in his entire career and 8 of his 9 goals last season were against teams in the bottom half of a much worse league than the PL. He is the biggest gamble I can remember ever seeing a club take on a player.

Rooney- doubt him or not, He will get goals if he gets the opportunities which he hasn't had much, We still have Wilson or maybe Depay

I have to laugh at the stuff you say about Martial, Only completed 6 games and 8 or 9 goals vs bottom half teams. Last year - started 19 games, doesn't matter if he completed them as players do get subbed. PSG, Saint Etienne, Rennes are bottom half teams? Real Madrid, Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham were all linked with him

In short, I don't think you've really improved this summer since the effective loss of De Gea will cost you more points than the unproven attacking players you've brought in are likely to add. You've lost an awful lot of depth as well with more games on your calendar since you're back in the CL. You may well get in the top 4 again but I find it incredible that that's the aim after the amount of money Van Gaal has spent making the team his. I find it even more incredible, the easy ride the media are giving you for apparently having no title credentials despite the money spent. When City had spent a similar amount we were being derided for not winning the Champions League, yet alone competing for domestic honours.

LVG fixing Moyes mess

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Here's how I would view United's transfer window:

Goalkeepers

Romero is not good enough. He's already cost you points that De Gea would have saved against Swansea and it says something that he was available as a free agent. I don't think De Gea still being at the club is anything to shout about - he'll be in no mood to play and is bound to be angry at United (justly or not) that a deal couldn't be pushed through. Plus' date=' Van Gaal is far too stubborn to start picking him now. The same goes for Valdes, who Van Gaal has also fallen out with. With the sale of Lindegaard, that realistically leaves you with Johnstone backing up Romero. Nowhere near top class.

The farcical nature of the De Gea transfer reflects badly on both United and Real.[/quote']

Romero is good enough as back up for the season with De Gea in goal. Now he is staying LVG will play him and De Gea will play out of his skin so he reaches the Euros with Spain. Del Bosque has already said he needs to be playing so do you think De Gea won't just get his head down right from the off and work hard to get there?

Valdes won't be selected but LVG has said time and time again that De Gea will be available for selection after the transfer window closes, people seem to be deliberately ignoring that.

Defence

Darmian is a good player and a definite upgrade on Rafael. I can't believe you haven't signed a top class CB. You thought you were getting Hummels at the start of the window' date=' then Ramos as part of a De Gea deal and then interest in Otamendi. After all that you're left with a pairing of Smalling and Blind with Rojo seemingly also falling out with Van Gaal and Jones injured. Shaw has been OK since the start of the season. Massive questions about depth though - you'll have to play a lot more games this season than last and are already resorting to Blind (a DM) at CB. I don't think you've got any bespoke backups at full back with players like Smalling, Jones, Valencia and Blind having to move out of their comfortable positions to provide cover.[/quote']

I am surprised we didn't given all the hype around Otamendi/Hummels but with De Gea in goal now and Schneidelin screening I'd fancy United to have one of the lowest goals conceded of any team in the league, at least the top 3. My concern is more with whats happened at the other end of the pitch.

Shaw has been better than OK he has performed very well. I think we have a strong first choice defence however I do agree that the depth of selection isn't as strong as City's. Also I think if you actually watch Blind play alongside Smalling he's been very calming and very good. People are too quick to lambast him just because he was a DM.

Deeper Midfield

The best improvements are here. With Schneiderlin' date=' Carrick, Schweinsteiger, Blind and possibly Herrera you have a group of fairly solid players. I do think Schweinsteiger is a little bit past it though (he's given away possession a lot so far) and he might be on too high a wage to not play regularly.[/quote']

Fairly solid? Come on Stu you know Schneiderlin, Carrick, Schweinsteiger and Herrera are all terrific players, this area has hugely improved from last season and arguably is the best CDM/CM we've had since Scholes and Keane. Schweinsteiger has been playing forward passes trying to play people in. I would much prefer he do that and his % go down slightly than him play safe football a la Cleverly. I really think you're being negative for the sake of it in this area.

Attacking Midfield

Depay could turn out to be a good signing but he's hardly set thee league alight so far and was definitely a gamble coming from the far inferior Dutch league. Mata's decent but IMO you have to put Herrera in the hole behind the striker or you really lack creativity. Again' date=' maybe lacking depth after letting Januzaj go.[/quote']

Letting go of Januzaj absolutely is baffling seeing as he plays all across the AM roles and we need depth here. I like Depay he's shown what is to come in glimpses but lets not forget he's 21 and not the finished package. He is going to have good and bad games but the good games he lights up the stadium!

Mata is more than decent...

I like Herrera in the hole because he offers forward quick passing as well as not being too shabby defensively.

Strikers

Rooney's off the pace and you've decided to support him with a completely untested 19 year old who's immediately under enormous pressure due to the incredible fee paid for him and that you also have no depth here either (unless you really want to count Fellaini). Selling Hernandez and Van Persie (and losing Falcao) without bringing in a senior striker is very daft IMO. Martial has only completed 6 games in his entire career and 8 of his 9 goals last season were against teams in the bottom half of a much worse league than the PL. He is the biggest gamble I can remember ever seeing a club take on a player.

In short' date=' I don't think you've really improved this summer since the effective loss of De Gea will cost you more points than the unproven attacking players you've brought in are likely to add. You've lost an awful lot of depth as well with more games on your calendar since you're back in the CL. You may well get in the top 4 again but I find it incredible that that's the aim after the amount of money Van Gaal has spent making the team his. I find it even more incredible, the easy ride the media are giving you for apparently having no title credentials despite the money spent. When City had spent a similar amount we were being derided for not winning the Champions League, yet alone competing for domestic honours.[/quote']

Rooney unfortunately will always end up scoring goals, I hope he can get 20+ but I don't know. Like I've said before there wasn't the world class striker we needed to replace him available this window but we have brought in the right style of player albeit for more than expected. We needed some pace and we got that as well as some good potential too. I completely agree we needed to add one more striker/winger to this squad (not including keeping Januzaj) but to be honest other than that I cannot disagree with any of LVG's business in terms of how it's shaped the team. We now actually have some quality all over the pitch and most importantly, even though Madrid made it very messy, we still have David De Gea.

For anyone outside the club I can understand why it seems bizarre to not be challenging for titles but I don't think you know how badly Moyes mucked up.

LVG is rebuilding us slowly (with a shed load of cash) but I would rather build slowly and expensively short term to benefit long term from players like Shaw, Depay, Martial etc.

The fact is we've gone from 7th to 4th whereas City have been 1st/2nd and it's not like the teams around us have stood still. United invested heavily in a very poor squad but as that was happening Chelsea were adding Fabregas, Matic, Costa etc. The 7th place finish left us playing catch up massively but LVG is setting us on the right direction. If we finish top 2/3 I'll be happy for this season. Next season however Manchester United should be involved in a very serious title challenge and I would consider anything less than that a failure.

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Moyes messed up more than you think

- Start he went on a month holiday then sacked the staff behind the scene, messed around in the Market, only getting 1 player each market

- Playing style was awful and his comments were a joke like I dunno what we have to do to win

- Never renewed contracts of players - He could of done De Gea contract during his time

- Finish with no European football

LVG 1st season -

He had to build a team with 3 of the 4 defenders leaving for free

He had to get them to his philosophy which their were signs 2nd half but came together during and after Arsenal FA Cup defeat

He got United to 4th and back in Champs League

1 important thing from that season - head to head vs top 6, United came top

LVG 2nd season

- Fans wanted a RB, solid Midfield, Winger, CB and maybe a striker - sell the deadwood, all happened except a CB and maybe missing 1 more striker

- It is Solid at back but Blind the target for teams, Blind reads the game well but its the pace and power

- Possession is fine but need more positive possession

- Attacking side needs improving with more creativity and movement

- Martial - Let see what he can bring to United - I am fed up with price tag talk when he not even kicked a ball in the united shirt yet

- United atm are 2 points better off than last season atm and If we beat Liverpool, United will be 5 points better off then last season first 5 games

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Ben' date=' Blind is beyond poor at CB.[/quote']

Based on what?

He is very intelligent, passes well links the defence and midfield together and rather than diving into challenges looks to intercept or harry opponents into safe situations.

I will agree 100% he is not physically strong enough to cope with certain types of strikers but he can work on that in the gym; it's much harder to coach the tactical side which he excels at.

Besides we have Smalling for the dirty work.

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Based on what?

He is very intelligent' date=' passes well links the defence and midfield together and rather than diving into challenges looks to intercept or harry opponents into safe situations.

I will agree 100% he is not physically strong enough to cope with certain types of strikers but he can work on that in the gym; it's much harder to coach the tactical side which he excels at.

Besides we have Smalling for the dirty work.[/quote']

His positioning, his pace, his decision making when running back.

To be fair I don't know why I'm arguing, long may it continue with him at CB :)

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His positioning' date=' his pace, his decision making when running back.

To be fair I don't know why I'm arguing, long may it continue with him at CB :)[/quote']

Haha yeah why are you? :P

I'd agree again physically he's not strong or quick but mentally I think he's got enough to get by against most attackers in the PL. He's got 2 good defensive fullbacks in Shaw and Darmian plus Smalling all of whom are quick and strong plus Schneiderlin sitting in front of him and De Gea behind him.

He's not a world class CB but so far he's done better than Chelsea's back 4.... ;)

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Ben C is right about Blind - only letting in 2 goals in the league atm is ok, just need the goals the other end but people are going to target him and Smalling can't always help him out

I wish LVG could test Rojo out - He has pace n physical power - He could be like a new CB signing

I think most have done better than Chelsea back 4

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