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Liga BBVA Ratings Predictions thread


Kazzer

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Re: Liga BBVA Ratings 2012/2013

(so we can assume that Del Bosque "noticed" him' date=' too[/b'] :rolleyes: )

When you're a coach you need to look at the players potential as well as the performance but when your rating him you look at his performance only. I've mentioned this earlier as well.

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Re: Liga BBVA Ratings 2012/2013

He deserves a +1 for last part of the season and a +1 for this season. No more than that. And thanks for telling me Isco is a midfielder. I've never compared Isco and El Sha's rating in the previous posts if you look carefully.

You commented on their scoring rate that's why i mentioned their positions. ANYWAY, i've stated my points, it's clear that we have different opinions about Isco's future rating so i don't want to continue this, since it's SM's decision after all and it's pointless arguing before his review.

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Re: Liga BBVA Ratings 2012/2013

Isco is not a centre forward but he is an attack oriented player. His stats are' date=' though, that of a defensive midfielder. 4 goals and 1 assist after 17 games this season in the league and 2 goals in the champions league. Now Isco plays beautiful football which is great to watch - and I'm not questioning his talent - but surely with this kind of stats one cant expect him to jump directly from 87 to 90 at one go and that too in the mid season.

And not just Isco, in general I'm not liking the fact that players are getting so much rise all of a sudden. I'm not sure El Sha deserves 89 too but they got carried away by his goals tally this season. But given the fact that he has got more goals than established star strikers such as Cavani or Vucinic and that too in a Milan shirt who have been so poor this season its not really a big surprise IMO.

Also 87>90 is a bigger jump than 86>89 I think players shouldnt get to the 90 mark that quickly. There are lot of forumers enjoying these big rises I know but I'm not one of them. For me we have to see a player over [i']time[/i] before giving him a proper rise. Some even suggests that Gotze deserves a 93 in this review! I think the players that are more skillful and plays attractive football and popular etc are getting some ludicrous rises too quickly. Theres a difference between a players potential and his performance and ratings should be strictly based on performances.

I don't think I'm the only one with brains enough to realise that these rating changes are to raise the bar. I.e 90 is the new 91. These high ratings will equal out over the year. And yes Isco deserves to be higher rated then El Shaarway. :P

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Re: Liga BBVA Ratings 2012/2013

I don't think I'm the only one with brains enough to realise that these rating changes are to raise the bar. I.e 90 is the new 91. These high ratings will equal out over the year. And yes Isco deserves to be higher rated then El Shaarway. :P

He got World Golden Boy, ahead of El Sha and Courtois. He's gonna rise to 90, on that alone, which is an outstanding achievement.

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Riferimento: Liga BBVA Ratings 2012/2013

Come on guys, Serie A isn't a weaker league than la Liga, there are Serie B teams better than Liga teams, and it is way easier to score in Liga, nobody in Serie A has scored 30 goals except Toni in 2006 for 50 years I think, and players like Ronaldo or Trezeguet or Shevchenko weren't that bad :rolleyes:

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Re: Riferimento: Liga BBVA Ratings 2012/2013

Come on guys' date=' Serie A isn't a weaker league than la Liga, there are Serie B teams better than Liga teams, and it is way easier to score in Liga, nobody in Serie A has scored 30 goals except Toni in 2006 for 50 years I think, and players like Ronaldo or Trezeguet or Shevchenko weren't that bad :rolleyes:[/quote']

I don't see a quality striker in Italy. There's no doubt the defences in Italian football are great. And thats your answer for Luca scoring 30 goals. Ronaldo, Sheva, Trezeguet were all dead when they entered Italian teams. And the coach's mentality in using Pato, Ibra, Totti, Eto'o & others also counts for this.

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Re: Riferimento: Liga BBVA Ratings 2012/2013

The first line of your post is indicative of a lot of forumers these days who are unable to argue any points made and therefore make a random outlandish statement with zero meaning as the base of their argument' date=' so I will skip over that ;)

However with relation to your second point:

There have been 496 goals scored in Serie A this season. There have been 485 goals scored in La Liga this season. La Liga has played one less game than Serie A so you can argue the difference in negligable.

Last season there were 972 goals scored in Serie A, 1050 were scored in La Liga. A difference of 78, which can easily be made up with the difference of goals scored by the top 2 in each division. 142 by the Italians and 232 by the Spaniards. Given the massive gulf in quality of Barcelona to Juventus and Real Madrid to AC Milan it would be safe to say should each of these clubs play in the opposite league then the goal ratio would continue to increase further and further apart in favour of Serie A being the easier league to score goals in.

Regardless of variations in the quality of La Liga's top teams to Serie A's, it is still remarkably even in terms of goals scored. Exatly what this has to do with El Sha being 89 and Isco being 90 I have no idea. Unless you are under the impression Isco is a centre forward...

However what can not be argued is the fact the Italian league is so far away from the standard of La Liga that it is actually closer in standard to the Ukrainian league ;)

I'd love to hear a good argument as to why Isco should not be higher rated than El Sha, but I know i wont because there isn't one ;)[/quote']

El Shaa deservs 89 just cose he play for a legendary team , Isco is at an obscure team that was artificial made 2 years ago...i dont gonna compare the potencial of those two , but it's easy to see that in a number game EL Shaa wins , this being a number based game , Isco should be at the same level as El Shaa

Come on guys' date=' Serie A isn't a weaker league than la Liga, there are Serie B teams better than Liga teams, and it is way easier to score in Liga, nobody in Serie A has scored 30 goals except Toni in 2006 for 50 years I think, and players like Ronaldo or Trezeguet or Shevchenko weren't that bad :rolleyes:[/quote']

you forgot Ibrahimovic...

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Re: Riferimento: Liga BBVA Ratings 2012/2013

Come on guys' date=' Serie A isn't a weaker league than la Liga, there are Serie B teams better than Liga teams, and it is way easier to score in Liga, nobody in Serie A has scored 30 goals except Toni in 2006 for 50 years I think, and players like Ronaldo or Trezeguet or Shevchenko weren't that bad :rolleyes:[/quote']

That's typical for an italian.I know at least 10 italians who belives they have the strongest league in the world.Typicall.I hate italians for being very arrogants people.

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Riferimento: Re: Riferimento: Liga BBVA Ratings 2012/2013

That's typical for an italian.I know at least 10 italians who belives they have the strongest league in the world.Typicall.I hate italians for being very arrogants people.

I rank

Premier

Bundesliga

Serie A

Liga

Ligue 1

In Italy there are more competitives team, Catania will probably finish sixth in Liga, we have Juve, Milan, Inter, Lazio, Roma, Fiorentina, Napoli, Udinese ahead of Catania. It's not a matter of being arrogant, in Liga there aren't as many good teams as in Italy, they haven't a "middle class", they just have big teams and rubbish ones

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Riferimento: Re: Riferimento: Liga BBVA Ratings 2012/2013

I don't see a quality striker in Italy. There's no doubt the defences in Italian football are great. And thats your answer for Luca scoring 30 goals. Ronaldo' date=' Sheva, Trezeguet were all dead when they entered Italian teams. And the coach's mentality in using Pato, Ibra, Totti, Eto'o & others also counts for this.[/quote']

You must be crazy, Sheva and Trezeguet had their best seasons in Italy and Ronaldo was 21 or 22 when he joined Inter, he was the best forward in the world.. And I made a few names, I could also mention Ibra, Van Basten, Weah, Vieri, Batistuta, were they all dead?

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Re: Riferimento: Re: Riferimento: Liga BBVA Ratings 2012/2013

I rank

Premier

Bundesliga

Serie A

Liga

Ligue 1

In Italy there are more competitives team' date=' Catania will probably finish sixth in Liga, we have Juve, Milan, Inter, Lazio, Roma, Fiorentina, Napoli, Udinese ahead of Catania. It's not a matter of being arrogant, in Liga there aren't as many good teams as in Italy, they haven't a "middle class", they just have big teams and rubbish ones[/quote']

yeah I agree! Serie A is a better league than La Liga. Juve, Milan, Inter, Roma, Lazio, Udinese, Napoli are the tittle contenders in Italy. In Spain, only Barca, Real, Atletico, Valencia. And in Bundesliga you can see any one can win.

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Re: Riferimento: Re: Riferimento: Liga BBVA Ratings 2012/2013

You must be crazy' date=' Sheva and Trezeguet had their best seasons in Italy and Ronaldo was 21 or 22 when he joined Inter, he was the best forward in the world.. And I made a few names, I could also mention Ibra, Van Basten, Weah, Vieri, Batistuta, were they all dead?[/quote']

I was talking about the 21st century:D. I really feel bad for qualities like Pato, Totti playing in Italy. They could have been better than this. Pato still has time.

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Re: Riferimento: Re: Riferimento: Liga BBVA Ratings 2012/2013

yeah I agree! Serie A is a better league than La Liga. Juve' date=' Milan, Inter, Roma, Lazio, Udinese, Napoli are the tittle contenders in Italy. In Spain, only Barca, Real, Atletico, Valencia. And in Bundesliga you can see any one can win.[/quote']

I would disagree, the italian sides are terribly managed, and never tend to stay at the top, unlike Barce and Real etc.

The Italian leagues are also heavily plagued by match fixing, crowd violence, some of the worst attendances I've ever seen and many other scandals.

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Riferimento: Re: Riferimento: Re: Riferimento: Liga BBVA Ratings 2012/2013

I would disagree' date=' the italian sides are terribly managed, and never tend to stay at the top, unlike Barce and Real etc.

The Italian leagues are also heavily plagued by match fixing, crowd violence, some of the worst attendances I've ever seen and many other scandals.[/color']

That's definitely true, but every single Spanish team is in debts, whereas the Italian ones sell their players if they can't afford them (for example Ibra and Thiago)

This is also true, but corruption is everywhere (Michu in the last match of last season or Vida in Lyon-Dinamo Zagreb) and so is bad attendance (Rio in Manchester derby)

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Re: Riferimento: Liga BBVA Ratings 2012/2013

El Shaa deservs 89 just cose he play for a legendary team ' date=' Isco is at an obscure team that was artificial made 2 years ago...i dont gonna compare the potencial of those two , but it's easy to see that in a number game EL Shaa wins , this being a number based game , Isco should be at the same level as El Shaa[/quote']

Nottingham Forest are a "legendary team" does that mean their players should be rated higher than, say Aguero who plays for an "artificial team"?

Fact is AC Milan are not a good team right now, as proved by losing to some "obscure team" in the Champions League.

Since this is a "numbers game" heres some numbers for you to mull over:

In the last 18 months El Sha has played 2293 league minutes, Isco has played 3972 league minutes, not far off double the amount!

Spain is ranked as top league by Uefa with 84.168 points over the last 5 years.

Italy is ranked 4th with 60.481 points, a massive difference of 23.687.

France is only 3 points behind Italy, and Ukraine is only 11 points behind Italy.

Then lets look at the Champions League Group table:

1. Malaga P6 W3 D3 L0 F12 A5 D+7 P12

2. Milan P6 W2 D2 L2 F7 A6 D+1 P8

And that's despite Malaga playing their B team in the final two group gams, having already easily qualified from the group.

So to summarise: Player A has played substantially more minutes in a substantially better league for a better team than player B, so why shouldn't player A be rated higher than player B again :rolleyes:

Oh and not to mention that Isco, despite playing for an "obscure team" still managed to beat EL Sha playing for a "legendary team" to the Golden Boy Award, again thus proving his superiority.

Come on guys' date=' Serie A isn't a weaker league than la Liga, there are Serie B teams better than Liga teams, and it is way easier to score in Liga, nobody in Serie A has scored 30 goals except Toni in 2006 for 50 years I think, and players like Ronaldo or Trezeguet or Shevchenko weren't that bad :rolleyes:[/quote']

Serie A is a much much much weaker league than La Liga, to argue otherwise is ludicrous.

I've also already answered the myth that Serie A is harder to score goals in than La Liga. Yes in years gone by when the Italians had better defence's and the managers approach was always defence first, but the Serie A's has slipped across the board massively in recent years. If Ronaldo, Shevchenko or Trezeguet were in their prime in Serie A these days they would all get past 30 goals easily. Then again if they were around in their prime these days they would not be playing in Italy - more chance of seeing them in France these days ;)

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Re: Riferimento: Liga BBVA Ratings 2012/2013

Nottingham Forest are a "legendary team" does that mean their players should be rated higher than' date=' say Aguero who plays for an "artificial team"?

Fact is AC Milan are not a good team right now, as proved by losing to some "obscure team" in the Champions League.

Since this is a "numbers game" heres some numbers for you to mull over:

In the last 18 months El Sha has played 2293 league minutes, Isco has played 3972 league minutes, not far off double the amount!

Spain is ranked as top league by Uefa with 84.168 points over the last 5 years.

Italy is ranked 4th with 60.481 points, a massive difference of 23.687.

France is only 3 points behind Italy, and Ukraine is only 11 points behind Italy.

Then lets look at the Champions League Group table:

1. Malaga P6 W3 D3 L0 F12 A5 D 7 P12

2. Milan P6 W2 D2 L2 F7 A6 D 1 P8

And that's despite Malaga playing their B team in the final two group gams, having already easily qualified from the group.

So to summarise: Player A has played substantially more minutes in a substantially better league for a better team than player B, so why shouldn't player A be rated higher than player B again :rolleyes:

Oh and not to mention that Isco, despite playing for an "obscure team" still managed to beat EL Sha playing for a "legendary team" to the Golden Boy Award, again thus proving his superiority.

Serie A is a much much much weaker league than La Liga, to argue otherwise is ludicrous.

I've also already answered the myth that Serie A is harder to score goals in than La Liga. Yes in years gone by when the Italians had better defence's and the managers approach was always defence first, but the Serie A's has slipped across the board massively in recent years. If Ronaldo, Shevchenko or Trezeguet were in their prime in Serie A these days they would all get past 30 goals easily. Then again if they were around in their prime these days they would not be playing in Italy - more chance of seeing them in France these days ;)[/quote']

If playing more matches is the criteria then I think Jack Wilshere must fell to 81. But its not. El Shaarawy is the top scorer in Serie A. So is Isco in Malaga in the Champions league. But comparing their game qualities I barely see any difference. And if Isco gets 90 then I think 89 for El Shaa is unfair for him. And so is for Belhanda. His 90 is totally wrong. And if Belhanda is 90, Cabella should be 89, Wilshere 91. And by that Gotze and Hazard must be 94. This is what I think is wrong in the system. El Shaa, Belhanda & Isco should all be equal whether 89 or 90.

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Re: Riferimento: Liga BBVA Ratings 2012/2013

If playing more matches is the criteria then I think Jack Wilshere must fell to 81. But its not. El Shaarawy is the top scorer in Serie A. So is Isco in Malaga in the Champions league. But comparing their game qualities I barely see any difference. And if Isco gets 90 then I think 89 for El Shaa is unfair for him. And so is for Belhanda. His 90 is totally wrong. And if Belhanda is 90' date=' Cabella should be 89, Wilshere 91. And by that Gotze and Hazard must be 94. This is what I think is wrong in the system. El Shaa, Belhanda & Isco should all be equal whether 89 or 90.[/quote']

Playing more matches, playing in a better league, playing for a better team, playing at a higher standard. Those are pretty much the main criteria for ratings. And Isco wins them all.

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Riferimento: Re: Riferimento: Liga BBVA Ratings 2012/2013

Serie A is a much much much weaker league than La Liga' date=' to argue otherwise is ludicrous.

I've also already answered the myth that Serie A is harder to score goals in than La Liga. Yes in years gone by when the Italians had better defence's and the managers approach was always defence first, but the Serie A's has slipped across the board massively in recent years. If Ronaldo, Shevchenko or Trezeguet were in their prime in Serie A these days they would all get past 30 goals easily. Then again if they were around in their prime these days they would not be playing in Italy - more chance of seeing them in France these days ;)[/quote']

In Spain only the big teams score, the little don't because their attack is just as poor as their defence.

Spanish defenders in Italy failed (Josè Angel, Didac, Victor Ruiz) and so did Spanish forwards like Josè Mari or Portillo whereas Italian defenders do well in Spain (Volta for example, but also Lanzaro and Contini were decent) and Italian forwards like Rossi or Longo find it a joke to score in Liga.

I forgot Borja Valero, but he is a midfielder and everybody knows you are the best for midfielders

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Re: Riferimento: Liga BBVA Ratings 2012/2013

Playing more matches' date=' playing in a better league, playing for a better team, playing at a higher standard. Those are pretty much the main criteria for ratings. And Isco wins them all.[/quote']

what does Belhanda had for a 90 then. And El Shaa also completes the above criteria. Isco plays in La Liga but not so well as El Shaa does in Serie A. Both plays in UCL in same standard. Isco has played more matches but El Shaa has played much better in every game. Belhanda and M'Vila does not fulfil any criteria from these all. Then why are they higher?:confused:

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Re: Riferimento: Re: Riferimento: Liga BBVA Ratings 2012/2013

In Spain only the big teams score' date=' the little don't because their attack is just as poor as their defence.

Spanish defenders in Italy failed (Josè Angel, Didac, Victor Ruiz) and so did Spanish forwards like Josè Mari or Portillo whereas Italian defenders do well in Spain (Volta for example, but also Lanzaro and Contini were decent) and Italian forwards like Rossi or Longo find it a joke to score in Liga.[/quote']

Jose Mari and Portillo, how prolific were they in La Liga like? :rolleyes:

Rossi 54 goals in 136 games in La Liga, not a terrible scoring record, but not exactly "a joke to score in Liga".

And Longo, do you mean the guy with 3 La Liga goals to his name?

Italian defenders do well in Spain? Your going to have to do better than the 3 names you have come up with. Volta? I mean who is he? Can't be the Levante player who has not kicked a ball in La Liga.

what does Belhanda had for a 90 then. And El Shaa also completes the above criteria. Isco plays in La Liga but not so well as El Shaa does in Serie A. Both plays in UCL in same standard. Isco has played more matches but El Shaa has played much better in every game. Belhanda and M'Vila does not fulfil any criteria from these all. Then why are they higher?:confused:

If El Sha has played much better in every game then why didn't he win the Golden Boy Award?

Belhanda & M'Vila have been playing consistently for a much longer time, which i guess is why they are higher rated...

However they have nothing to do with the discussion which is El Sha and Isco.

SM have set the new standard with their review of Italy, if El Sha went 88 then Isco likely would get 89, as El Sha went 89 guess what, Isco will get 90 :)

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Riferimento: Liga BBVA Ratings 2012/2013

Portillo was consided a top prospect at Real Madrid, and he failed at Fiorentina, Rossi and Longo surely are doing better.

Didac and Ruiz are the clear example: well in Liga, nothing in Serie A.

Should I mention Panucci to say that Italian defenders do well in Liga?

Edit: Ivan Helguera also failed

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Re: Riferimento: Re: Riferimento: Liga BBVA Ratings 2012/2013

Jose Mari and Portillo' date=' how prolific were they in La Liga like? :rolleyes:

Rossi 54 goals in 136 games in La Liga, not a terrible scoring record, but not exactly "a joke to score in Liga".

And Longo, do you mean the guy with 3 La Liga goals to his name?

Italian defenders do well in Spain? Your going to have to do better than the 3 names you have come up with. Volta? I mean who is he? Can't be the Levante player who has not kicked a ball in La Liga.

If El Sha has played much better in every game then why didn't he win the Golden Boy Award?

Belhanda & M'Vila have been playing consistently for a much longer time, which i guess is why they are higher rated...

However they have nothing to do with the discussion which is El Sha and Isco.

SM have set the new standard with their review of Italy, if El Sha went 88 then Isco likely would get 89, as El Sha went 89 guess what, Isco will get 90 :)[/quote']

amo Isco will be 90, no doubt. But my point is that this system is not consistent for all. M'Vila did nothing to be 91. And so is with Belhanda. Bonucci too don't deserve a 91. Nor does the own goal scorer Ranocchia. Juan should have been 87-88. So you can see many mistakes in recent ratings.

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Re: Riferimento: Liga BBVA Ratings 2012/2013

Portillo was consided a top prospect at Real Madrid' date=' and he failed at Fiorentina, Rossi and Longo surely are doing better.

Didac and Ruiz are the clear example: well in Liga, nothing in Serie A.

Should I mention Panucci to say that Italian defenders do well in Liga?[/quote']

Considered a top prospect, but failed, hence why they sold him.

Didac has been injured which is why he has not played for Milan this season, and I have already make my feelings on Ruiz clear in this thread, I do not rate him as a defender.

Panucci? How long ago was that? Sorry didn't realise we were talking 15 years ago :eek:

But your first main example Volta? So that is the guy who has never played in La Liga then? :o

amo Isco will be 90' date=' no doubt. But my point is that this system is not consistent for all. M'Vila did nothing to be 91. And so is with Belhanda. Bonucci too don't deserve a 91. Nor does the own goal scorer Ranocchia. Juan should have been 87-88. So you can see many mistakes in recent ratings.[/quote']

I dont argue that may of their ratings are wrong, and indeed until Italy was reviewed I had Isco down for an 89, but now there is simply no other rating he can get other than 90.

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Riferimento: Re: Riferimento: Liga BBVA Ratings 2012/2013

Considered a top prospect' date=' but failed, hence why they sold him.

Didac has been injured which is why he has not played for Milan this season, and I have already make my feelings on Ruiz clear in this thread, I do not rate him as a defender.

Panucci? How long ago was that? Sorry didn't realise we were talking 15 years ago :eek:

But your first main example Volta? So that is the guy who has never played in La Liga then? :o[/quote']

Yes the same Volta, I failed with my example, but Contini and Lanzaro in the previous seasons played about 15-25 matches, more than Didac or Ruiz.

And be honest, Milan bought Didac in 2011 and he was fit, and played only the last match, when Milan had already won the title, and then Milan loaned him to Espanyol because he was not good enough.

And even if you don't rate Ruiz as a defender, we're talking about average players, not stars, it is obvious that Ramos would settle in Italian football without any problem.

Our average players are better than yours, that's all.

Your star players are better than ours, and this makes La Roja the best NT, but Liga isn't the best league

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