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Loans from Unmanaged clubs


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Re: Loans from Unmanaged clubs

i thought a load of new managers had joined my gameworld when i received loads of loan bids for my players.

it has saved me 600k of wages for my dortmund team. i am a self confessed player hogger but the way i managed my teams meant i knew the risks of big wage bills and concerns but i tried to manage them.

i feel a bit guilty about sending all my players out on loan as it does make it all a bit easier but i may as well take advantage. It does seem pointless when teams take a 75 that wouldn't get in their team so it would seem more sensible for unmanaged clubs to only bid for players that would get in their 16 man match squad.

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Re: Loans from Unmanaged clubs Exactly - the loans are extremely random and don't seem to be there to improve any of the teams...I've seen unmanaged teams with an average rating of 87 making loan bid

Re: Loans from Unmanaged clubs I have to admit, I've rejected a few bids for 60 rated players in my squads, it just seemed too unrealistic (even on SM) to send them out to teams who have starting ele

Re: Loans from Unmanaged clubs Now people can horde even more young players without worrying about their wages............... Great! I'm really confused by the steps SM are making recently, in my op

Re: Loans from Unmanaged clubs

I have to admit, I've rejected a few bids for 60 rated players in my squads, it just seemed too unrealistic (even on SM) to send them out to teams who have starting elevens averaging low to mid 80s. It would be good if there was way it could be ensured you only receive offers from clubs who will actually benefit from signing the players.

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Re: Loans from Unmanaged clubs

i thought a load of new managers had joined my gameworld when i received loads of loan bids for my players.

it has saved me 600k of wages for my dortmund team. i am a self confessed player hogger but the way i managed my teams meant i knew the risks of big wage bills and concerns but i tried to manage them.

i feel a bit guilty about sending all my players out on loan as it does make it all a bit easier but i may as well take advantage. It does seem pointless when teams take a 75 that wouldn't get in their team so it would seem more sensible for unmanaged clubs to only bid for players that would get in their 16 man match squad.

Aren't we being a little over-sensitive on this matter? I guess all of us want the game to be the most aproximately to real life and i found this as a big improvement. Well, for a start in real life all clubs are managed. In here we have lots of setups with 5-10% occupation. If you can't loan players to unmanaged then it's unfair for most of setups.

Then, another real life fact. The hoggers are out there. Look at Man City for example. They grab all youngsters and then they just put the guys on loan list. Lots of them will never make it to the top. Chelsea, Liverpool, manu, etc are the same stuff and I could spent the whole week talking about 4 portuguese clubs that use that system. They hog the market every year seeking youngsters and in the end lots of those younglings will barely have the chance to make a 23-team and are simply loaned out.

I also wonder how many real life clubs feel guilty for sending their players on loan and they can't make it to a starting eleven. If they want a 60-rated player then they will have it. We cannot judge the IA(:D) for it's decisions. What could be changed is the loan termination thing. If for some reason you want to terminate the loan earlier than the deadline you should pay a compensation to the clubs. That could prevent the managers from terminating the loans as soon as the transfer ban ends to sell the players.

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Re: Loans from Unmanaged clubs

In here we have lots of setups with 5-10% occupation.

That's the whole problem with SM if you ask me. No one wants to manage a team unless they have a big club. I've seen countless new GW's where all the big teams are taken yet no one wants to manage a team like Crewe or Bolton. But they are happy to rape the smaller clubs of any talent and just keep them in the reserves to see if they become a star or not.

As heaven forbid if they managed a smaller team they would actually have to use their brain and skill when it comes to building a team and using tactics.

It seems SM is just introducing these things to keep the 5-10% of setups happy. So they can player hog to their hearts content, loan players out and make more money. Doesn't matter about smaller clubs, as this 5-10% would never manager a small club nor wish to. But at the first sign of players concerns they are on the forums moaning for changes.

If it was upto me i'd introduce a ranking system where once you joined SM you couldn't manage a Top Team straight away. But then, i guess alot wouldn't enjoy playing with crewe for a few months, till they proved they could use their brain instead of just walking into a top team

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Re: Loans from Unmanaged clubs

In the last couple of days I have loaned out enough players to save me an extra million a game (have plenty more I can loan out too)

That's going to work out at an extra 40+million saved a season for my club now.

Money that could be thrown at buying players concerns off.

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Re: Loans from Unmanaged clubs

If it was upto me i'd introduce a ranking system where once you joined SM you couldn't manage a Top Team straight away. But then' date=' i guess alot wouldn't enjoy playing with crewe for a few months, till they proved they could use their brain instead of just walking into a top team[/quote']

Definitely agree on that suggestion.

I guess that could also help preventing the bunch of cheaters that everyday create a new user and start managing top tems to sell to the preferred team.

You won't see me moan because I have players concerns. We all had that and the way you deal with it is up to you. Either you play them, adress their concerns or you sell them. You must remember too that not every player could be loaned out. In my team I can loan guys up to 89. And bigger teams can loan up to 90.

And for the moment we're not positive sure that the players concerns will vanish with the loans... at least I'm not and hope not. :D

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Re: Loans from Unmanaged clubs

Good addition. Don't know why all the negativity. There comes a point in game worlds where nobody will even contemplate loaning any player below the rating of 80. World and euro championships its worse because people won't loan below 86 because its too easy to get players of those ratings.

Most game worlds are 20-30% full. Anything that can maybe improve the quality of teams when every half decent player has been taken from all unmanaged clubs is a welcome addition in my eyes. It helps out every team' date=' not just the big clubs.[/quote']

Agree!

I joined a very competative game world and started in the 3rd division gaining promotion and now im in the top flight. i used loan players to help me get there until i had wheeled and dealed enough that i didnt need to loan players anymore :)

Also the only way for me to get the top players i can see is to have a large youth team full of prospects and hope that i have the next big things amongst them, however up until now i have had 2 sell my higher rated youths due 2 wages, now i can loan them out like the real life teams would! :)

As for the big teams signing young talent from allover the world and loaning them out thats what happens in real life :P

Oh and the wee teams moan about it in real life aswell, but in real life they take the cash and get on with it as they know there is no alternative!!

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Re: Loans from Unmanaged clubs

Originally Posted by Monkeyshuffl

I'm pretty sure Ive had loan requests for 94 rated players. 93 rated 100% certain I have.

Probably' date=' depends on the setup you're in.

I can't even put a 90 rated on loan list.[/quote']

Well that just shows player hogging to the extreme in my view. For player to be available for loan you chairman must think you have enough cover and squad depth so they won't be missed. In other words, forwards wise if you had five strikers and only player 2 of them, then your chairman would let 1 maybe 2 go out on loan.

This is one of the big problems with teams who have 20+ players who are 94 rated. Instead of punishing them for hogging players who they don't plan on playing, they can now send them out on loan for a season.

They would only play them players if people in their first team started to go down in rating.

How is having that amount of high rated players fair to other managers within his game world, it isn't pure and simple. Which will result in people leaving the game world.

people are going on that all clubs hog players and it's healthy for the game as it happens in real life. Where in world does a team have over 200 youth players, not just average players but the cream of world talent.

I don't see the likes of Chelsea or Man City looking at Ajax and buying 6/7 of their players because of the quality of the young players. last time i checked Fischer, Eriksen, Van Rhijn, Anderson, Rits and Dijks are still at Ajax

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Re: Loans from Unmanaged clubs

Well that just shows player hogging to the extreme in my view.

I agree.

I have more than forty 90+ rated players and even some 95's can't get a game for me.

But why am I going to sell a 90 who might rise in the future and become a first teamer when I don't need too?

This loan feature and the player concern buyout has given me far far far less of a reason to sell than before.

The only way these new introductions make any sense is if squad caps are on the horizon. Even then that should have been introduced first.

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Re: Loans from Unmanaged clubs

I agree.

I have more than forty 90+ rated players and even some 95's can't get a game for me.

But why am I going to sell a 90 who might rise in the future and become a first teamer when I don't need too?

This loan feature and the player concern buyout has given me far far far less of a reason to sell than before.

The only way these new introductions make any sense is if squad caps are on the horizon. Even then that should have been introduced first.

I don't blame people for hogging players, at the end of the day everyone wants to try and build the best team. So you want to keep hold of top players once you have them. I understand that and any person on here who says they aint hogged players at some point is lying as everyone has done it at some point.

I just feel there needs to be a balance of how it's used with the game, as SM seem to be encouraging it as of late. I think having a Max squad number of 50 players would help sort the issue out. As it would help make the GW's more active, not just have a group of 6/7 teams having all the best players.

But having the players spread out over the league, it would make the game more enjoyable, would have managers building teams for themself's, having active transfers with other clubs. having leagues with over 50% of managers where they aren't quitting after a few weeks. No one wants to be in a gameworld where only 5-10% of clubs are taken. Where's the challenge in that

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Re: Loans from Unmanaged clubs

This isn't a terrible idea, but one that is going to be horribly exploited by certain managers. A guy in my game world has 182 players all for the purpose of cashing in on them at the next ratings change. The only balance to this tactic was the £2m wage bill he had to incur every turn. Today he's loaned out 71 players and has another 50 or so on the loan list. He's gonna be £1m better off per turn and cash in on 100+ players every 3 months. I like to think normal people a) don't have time to employ these tactics and B) have more about them in the first place. A squad cap needs to come in ASAP otherwise this guys gonna outbid for every player in the game.

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Re: Loans from Unmanaged clubs

Oh, and to every one saying its realistic, its not. Do you think Mancini personally oversees every single youth player coming in and arranges for them to be loaned out? No, he has a huge team of people that do it for him on a full time basis. In soccermanager you are the only person. So basically this rule only benefits those that have hours on end to play it and find enjoyment in buying countless nameless players just to make money off of them.

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Re: Loans from Unmanaged clubs

This isn't a terrible idea' date=' but one that is going to be horribly exploited by certain managers. A guy in my game world has 182 players all for the purpose of cashing in on them at the next ratings change. The only balance to this tactic was the £2m wage bill he had to incur every turn. Today he's loaned out 71 players and has another 50 or so on the loan list. He's gonna be £1m better off per turn and cash in on 100+ players every 3 months. I like to think normal people a) don't have time to employ these tactics and B) have more about them in the first place. A squad cap needs to come in ASAP otherwise this guys gonna outbid for every player in the game.[/quote']

OK, now he can outbid any offer because in the past you and the rest of the managers were all sleeping...or just don't have too much time to waste hogging players. That could be understated as dedication to his team. Now he's collecting the prize of your lack of dedication. :D

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Re: Loans from Unmanaged clubs

OK' date=' now he can outbid any offer because in the past you and the rest of the managers were all sleeping...or just don't have too much time to waste hogging players. That could be understated as dedication to his team. Now he's collecting the prize of your lack of dedication. :D[/quote']

Isn’t that a bit worrying though, when it gets to the point that sleeping, having a full time job and caring for your family gets in the way of playing what we must remember is just a game. I’ve been playing 4 years, managed nearly 2000 games and logged in pretty much every day. When that becomes classed as a lack of dedication what does it say for the playing community as a whole?

People have already made comments that there are only 5% to 10% of teams taken and committed managers. So when I class myself as one of them and become worried that I’m still not spending enough time on the game it can only mean we’ll soon be looking at only 1% of managers actually devoted to the game. Rules need to be implemented that make the game more attractive to more casual players and having top players spread more thinly over many teams is the only way to do that in my opinion.

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Re: Loans from Unmanaged clubs

I like to think normal people a) don't have time to employ these tactics and B) have more about them in the first place.

You might want to stop trying to belittle others who are better at managing their club than you. It just makes you sound pathetic :rolleyes:

I do think though that like a normal transfer players should not be able to be loaned-out until their 'Transfer Ban' is up.

Yeah this might help paper over some of the cracks of the poorly implemented idea.

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Re: Loans from Unmanaged clubs

I have heavily invested in youth players in all my teams as in the long term this is the only way i can see of having some of the best players and making cash, i dont see the problem with it. I once had a low budget team which i built a good team but not a great team and that was about as far as i could take it as i only had a small youth team and had no cash generation.

Now i have good teams ive built up and they all have large youth teams which has been hard 2 manage at times, but overall i got it 2 work. as for the new loan rule that helps me give my youth players game time and aquire some stats :) it also helps the wage bill both real life things :)

I have noticed only few managers buy youth players, personally i think the ones that dont are missing a trick, as u can wheel and deal with them and cash in on them and potentially have the best players in the future if u spot the right talent.

Thats what the big clubs in real life do aswell they try and sign the worlds best potential talent young, so they dont have 2 fork out silly money for them in the future. Like Lucas and Oscar were sold for thats because they were spotted young by there clubs and then they the small clubs cashed in on them having tied them down with crazy buyout clauses.

So its simple start signing young talent!! And its your own fault if you havent done so before :P

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Re: Loans from Unmanaged clubs

You might want to stop trying to belittle others who are better at managing their club than you. It just makes you sound pathetic :rolleyes:

I'm sorry if you feel my comment came across that way as it certainly wasn't my intention to belittle anybody. I've won countless championships and cups without ever having to player hog or cash in on hundreds of youth players so don't feel many players are better at managing their club than me.

Thats my point though, if I'm now required to invest hours of time (which I can assure you most people don't have) to exploit this new rule then I will become a weaker manager due to the simple fact I don't play long enough or do enough transfers.

This will put off many new players from continuing as the game will only be suited to the hardcore player. My point of people having more about them relates to the fact they should maybe consider these factors before thinking they are a good manager simply cause they have more time.

I personally think a transfer cap may be better than a squad cap, say no more than 30 transfers per season.

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Re: Loans from Unmanaged clubs

arguing about what managing styles people use is pointless, as everyone plays the game in a different way so no one is going to be able to agree which way it should be done.

There are some on here for which the game is a pass time, nothing serious as they have work, family life which comes before a game. Then their are others who seem to live on here like it was world of warcraft.

Then I've know people who have been playing the game for over a year then via chatting in PM about maybe selling a player, have only just found out about the forum when they asked me why i bought five players from china;).

We all have different goals from the game as well. Some want to take a small club through the ranks and beat the big boys. Others like myself aren't blinded by big clubs and will stick with 1 club no matter what and slowly build a team to challenge.

Then their are the small % of people who play the game where they have to win no matter what! They don't really care about the GW they enter as there only interested in collecting all the youth players from every club across the world.

Alot of the time i just laugh at these people as they will snap up anyone who appears on the "new players" thread. For which just shows the level of footballing brain they have. As they often no nothink about tactics which resulting in them quitting after a month or so

The game needs to be more fairer tho and more balanced for all. If we had squad limits i think it would balance the game up more. You'd still get playing hogging but managers would have to then decided which players they need to sell so they can bring in others.

With this loaning out to unmanaging clubs it could be the start of some very worrying times for SM. There are some teams who already have 200 youth players ranging from 75-88 with a wage bill of 1 million plus. Under the old system each game 1 million would be wiped from the club so at some point that manager would have to sell to keep the club falling into the red. Now they don't have to bother, they can loan all the players out. In return earning 1 Million a game and maybe adding to youth squad and buying more players which they loan out straight away. We could get to the stage where clubs have 500 players!

For me it seems SM is rewarding player hogging, which i hope wasn't their intention but that's how it looks

I personally think a transfer cap may be better than a squad cap' date=' say no more than 30 transfers per season.[/quote']

isn't a bad idea tbh could see it working well, as you'd aim to buy the right players rather than blind buying. Still think a squad cap needs to be brought in.

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Re: Loans from Unmanaged clubs

Isn’t that a bit worrying though' date=' when it gets to the point that sleeping, having a full time job and caring for your family gets in the way of playing what we must remember is just a game. I’ve been playing 4 years, managed nearly 2000 games and logged in pretty much every day. When that becomes classed as a lack of dedication what does it say for the playing community as a whole?

People have already made comments that there are only 5% to 10% of teams taken and committed managers. So when I class myself as one of them and become worried that I’m still not spending enough time on the game it can only mean we’ll soon be looking at only 1% of managers actually devoted to the game. Rules need to be implemented that make the game more attractive to more casual players and having top players spread more thinly over many teams is the only way to do that in my opinion.[/quote']

I don't see any worries. You just admitted that you spend more time on SM than me. Even though you say you don't have time to hog... I just have one team and really feel like it doesn't take to much of my time to hog players.

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Re: Loans from Unmanaged clubs

The way i see it is that the feature that won't aid hogging of players but help develop your team without the pressure to sell off potential stars when the wage bill gets too much.

I wonder why managers have a problem with people who build large youth squads anyway? Is it because these managers have stacks of cash to burn with nothing to spend it on? Is it because these managers won't sell you a particular player? Who knows why but play the game the way you choose. If you choose to loan out 50 players to unmanaged clubs that are never goin to get a human manager anyway then why do people bother moaning about a smart manager who is using a in game feature.

Personally I only see unmanaged clubs loaning players as a positive feature

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Re: Loans from Unmanaged clubs

I don't see any worries. You just admitted that you spend more time on SM than me. Even though you say you don't have time to hog... I just have one team and really feel like it doesn't take to much of my time to hog players.
The way i see it is that the feature that won't aid hogging of players but help develop your team without the pressure to sell off potential stars when the wage bill gets too much.

I wonder why managers have a problem with people who build large youth squads anyway? Is it because these managers have stacks of cash to burn with nothing to spend it on? Is it because these managers won't sell you a particular player? Who knows why but play the game the way you choose. If you choose to loan out 50 players to unmanaged clubs that are never goin to get a human manager anyway then why do people bother moaning about a smart manager who is using a in game feature.

Personally I only see unmanaged clubs loaning players as a positive feature

This is a great thing for the game.It can cure player concerns as long as they do play for the club they are loaned to.:)

I have to laugh.

This is a great thing what making the game easier than it has ever been and eliminating any real sense of squad management...managing finances, selective player recruitment etc

I dont know about most people but if a game is to easy it loses it's appeal, this game with the ridiculous introductions lately is FAR to easy.

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