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AI to choose from all 24 formations


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What do people think? facing a random formation from a list of 24 previous was (3or4), now i feel that going up against the AI will be a "luck" think due to not knowing what formation whatsoever you must select to counter..

Versus AI from now on will be a case of luck or no luck, im not convinced this will be popular once people start losing more versus weaker AI controlled teams..

if this game is about tactical intuition then this alteration has blasted that, perhaps if we could preview the AI's next teams formation & then choose which formation tactics we'd like, instead of trying to guess etc this would be much better & tbh more realistic

Infact i think it's a necessity to be able to preview you next opponents tactics (unmanaged) to allow you counter instead of being in the dark..

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Re: AI to choose from all 24 formations

What do people think? facing a random formation from a list of 24 previous was (3or4)' date=' now i feel that going up against the AI will be a "luck" think due to not knowing what formation whatsoever you must select to counter..

Versus AI from now on will be a case of luck or no luck, im not convinced this will be popular once people start losing more versus weaker AI controlled teams..

if this game is about tactical intuition then this alteration has blasted that, perhaps if we could preview the AI's next teams formation & then choose which formation tactics we'd like, instead of trying to guess etc this would be much better & tbh more realistic

Infact i think it's a necessity to be able to preview you next opponents tactics (unmanaged) to allow you counter instead of being in the dark..[/quote']

i came up against it tonight, v a very weak Chelsea in a custom GW, they AV about 84, i was 91 and i got MULLERED 3-1

makes the AI much harder to beat as they seem to counter your formation.

BUT....

as it says, it will be a formation selected on the players at there disposal. and AI sides dont make many, if any, signings so they will keep the side lineup as long as they have the same group of players.

So in essence it will end up being the same and up to you to look back at their previous matches and see what formations they use, and counter accordingly.

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Re: AI to choose from all 24 formations

it will be a formation selected on the players at there disposal. and AI sides dont make many' date=' if any, signings so they will keep the side lineup as long as they have the same group of players.

So in essence it will end up being the same and up to you to look back at their previous matches and see what formations they use, and counter accordingly.[/quote']

good point, might be odd alteration if players in certain posisitions get inj etc, but tbh i think it's more likly to be random.. we'll see over next few weeks.. there might not be too much alterations going on

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Re: AI to choose from all 24 formations

@OP, I completely agree. I just had a look at some of the results from tonight's Shield Cup results for the two gameworlds I have teams in, the results were mixed to say the least. The idea that the AI selects the best starting 11 and puts it in to a formation is so far disproved from my observations. Firstly I have found that the AI will now sort of 'hard' selects players for positions, for example two AI teams that selected the 3-3-4 formation. They used a DR, DC, DL, RM, CM, LM. It could easily have had 3 DC and 3 D/CM or 1 CM with two AM on either side. It opted for DR and DL players that were far lower in quality, 82 and 83 rated rather than between 3 other DC that were 87-88 rated, simply because it wanted to stick exactly to the formation positions.

The forwards however, were random. Example, it chose to stick an 86 rated AM RL on the right wing when it could have chosen Arda Turan (on the bench!), 90 rated AM RLC, to do the same job?! One team did stick the 2 FC in the right place and a FRLC either side. That said and done, it most certainly does not select the best starting 11 and assign a formation, it chooses the formation and then assigns the players. Total guess work for us managers as of Wednesday then. To make matters worse, two well managed player controlled teams were beaten in their respective semi-finals tonight, the final will be played by CPU teams!!!

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Re: AI to choose from all 24 formations

good point' date=' might be odd alteration if players in certain posisitions get inj etc, but tbh i think it's more likly to be random.. we'll see over next few weeks.. there might not be too much alterations going on[/quote']

just checked another GW, the AI played 3-4-3 and i hammered them 1-9! :D

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Re: AI to choose from all 24 formations

@OP' date=' I completely agree. I just had a look at some of the results from tonight's Shield Cup results for the two gameworlds I have teams in, the results were mixed to say the least. The idea that the AI selects the best starting 11 and puts it in to a formation is so far disproved from my observations. Firstly I have found that the AI will now sort of 'hard' selects players for positions, for example two AI teams that selected the 3-3-4 formation. They used a DR, DC, DL, RM, CM, LM. It could easily have had 3 DC and 3 D/CM or 1 CM with two AM on either side. It opted for DR and DL players that were far lower in quality, 82 and 83 rated rather than between 3 other DC that were 87-88 rated, simply because it wanted to stick exactly to the formation positions.

The forwards however, were random. Example, it chose to stick an 86 rated AM RL on the right wing when it could have chosen Arda Turan (on the bench!), 90 rated AM RLC, to do the same job?! One team did stick the 2 FC in the right place and a FRLC either side. That said and done, it most certainly does not select the best starting 11 and assign a formation, it chooses the formation and then assigns the players. Total guess work for us managers as of Wednesday then. To make matters worse, two well managed player controlled teams were beaten in their respective semi-finals tonight, the final will be played by CPU teams!!![/quote']

was players fitness an issue? i think the AI drops players who arent 100% match fit...

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Re: AI to choose from all 24 formations

was players fitness an issue? i think the AI drops players who arent 100% match fit...

To the best of my knowledge, CPU teams do not suffer from fatigue. They are assumed 100% at all times. Suspensions and injuries do count though. Can someone correct me if I am wrong?

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Re: AI to choose from all 24 formations

I think I might have figured out why my future CPU opponent opted for the 3-3-4 formation. They have the minimum allowed squad of 21 players and a staggering number of those players can be in an attacking position i.e AM(RLC)/F(RLC), 11 players to be precise. So for the CPU it would make sense to choose a formation with the maximum amount of attacking positions available and fill the rest of the pitch accordingly. That leaves the 4-2-4 and the 3-3-4 formations.

Further still, I found that the "Sir Metz's SoccerManager Guide to Football/Soccer" thread was very useful as one of the CPU teams I saw using the 3-3-4 was successfully countered by a player using the 3-4-1-2, as recommended in this thread, thrashing them by 9 goals to nil! :o I think this might just turn out alright in the end if this is the case come Wednesday. Get reading that thread!

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Re: AI to choose from all 24 formations

just checked another GW' date=' the AI played 3-4-3 and i hammered them 1-9! :D[/quote']

ya but the next day the AI will play a random formation (MAYBE) & noting you can do..:o :o :o :o i think i like my idea that we get to preview the tactics the AI will select, thats what a manager game is about.. not hoping the formation the AI picks is unsuited the the formation you select to win..

SM is trolling us otherwise?.

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Re: AI to choose from all 24 formations

ya but the next day the AI will play a random formation (MAYBE) & noting you can do..:o :o :o :o i think i like my idea that we get to preview the tactics the AI will select' date=' thats what a manager game is about.. not hoping the formation the AI picks is unsuited the the formation you select to win..

SM is trolling us otherwise?.[/quote']

i dont think the preview would work as you cant preview Human managers tactics before a game as they can change up to 8pm.

im pretty sure the AI wont keep changing formation randomly every game...

have to see what happens

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Re: AI to choose from all 24 formations

i dont think the preview would work as you cant preview Human managers tactics before a game as they can change up to 8pm.

im pretty sure the AI wont keep changing formation randomly every game...

have to see what happens

Preview would be great m8, of course it could work easily, every match v unmanaged now is pot luck, this is a manager game were tactics are important, AI can't just play random then thats pointless to the human controlled team. (i dont want to be logging into find my teams losing to unmanaged not because im bad tactician but because the AI played a formation that i didn't have the chance to counter at any stage, before 8pm or during the match

Human can change to any tactic he wants but of course this is just the way, seeing as tough tactics is the most important thing over players in team, every match v unmanaged now is pointless somewhat as no skill is needed & if you lose there's not a whole lot you could of done, an introduction as i stated would be challanging but much better over what is the situation right now. (of course thats if this thing turns out to random samuel every game :o)

& losing to unmanaged, thats gets peoples gears grinded big time espcially when the human teamsheet is much stronger on paper, they will all me in here then

for example i had a shield charity final match tonight, i played 352 but i had no idea of what the AI was choosing.. no logic from a gaming perspective there, i won 4-1 & the AI played 3-5-2 as did myself, really i won this game beause the AI choose this form, another form would have seen me lose possibly..

Also there's many forms on SM BUT NOT ALL ARE POPULAR AMONG MANAGERS, caps :) if the AI starts playing these forms then it will challange many of us to find tactics to beat these forms we're not so used to going up against, playing vs AI should not be hard or pot luck, but if you have alittle skill on SM then you should be able to overcome them..

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Re: AI to choose from all 24 formations

If the CPUs stick to certain tactics as opposed to randomly choosing 1 of24 formations it should be a good change IMO.

One thing I would like to be introduced is 'scout reports' of your next opposition by your assistant that would show you the most popular formations chosen by your opposition (by percentage), their highest rated players in def/mid/att, top scorers/assists and current injury/suspension list. And maybe tell you if your opponents are likely to "play a short passing game in which they make sure that any shots are taken from clear chances" etc. (ie they use short passing and defensive tactics etc.)

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Re: AI to choose from all 24 formations

Maybe there's a way of judjing what form your going up against but tbh i don't think there is much there tbh, quietly hoping my suggestion would be added to the game or at least something similar..

give it another couple matches and see if anyone can predict what the ai's form will be (start a new predict game ha!! :rolleyes:)

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Re: AI to choose from all 24 formations

Shelbourne FC I really don't think you need to worry. From what I can see the AI selects a formation and sticks with it. In one of my game worlds we've had a world cup i.e. up to 3 matches since the new modification. I checked the AI teams who made progress and guess what? Same formation in each game. So as someone else said, this will be a good change, it will mean you will have to switch it around a bit to beat AI teams, but you should be able to work out a counter to how they line up.

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Re: AI to choose from all 24 formations

Shelbourne FC I really don't think you need to worry. From what I can see the AI selects a formation and sticks with it. In one of my game worlds we've had a world cup i.e. up to 3 matches since the new modification. I checked the AI teams who made progress and guess what? Same formation in each game. So as someone else said' date=' this will be a good change, it will mean you will have to switch it around a bit to beat AI teams, but you should be able to work out a counter to how they line up.[/quote']

:P same formation likly, might be few alterations now and then maybe, but if one player gets inj/suspended then the next match a new form may be played, working what this form will be.. im not sure if it will be so possible to judge what that will be, as most teams have one or more playyers in each posisitions.. so trying to base a teams form on the players they have might not be so easy.. we see how it goes tough :)

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Riferimento: AI to choose from all 24 formations

No, I played against unmanaged team that does not change module until Saturday, 442 also lined up against human opponents who used my own tatctics. Last night the unmanaged used a 424 and I drew a match: 85 vs my 93 average player, 0-0. ***?

SMFA should make the game more realistic, not a joke or my money for GOLD they can forget it.

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Re: AI to choose from all 24 formations

What do people think? facing a random formation from a list of 24 previous was (3or4)' date=' now i feel that going up against the AI will be a "luck" think due to not knowing what formation whatsoever you must select to counter..

Versus AI from now on will be a case of luck or no luck, im not convinced this will be popular once people start losing more versus weaker AI controlled teams..

if this game is about tactical intuition then this alteration has blasted that, perhaps if we could preview the AI's next teams formation & then choose which formation tactics we'd like, instead of trying to guess etc this would be much better & tbh more realistic

Infact i think it's a necessity to be able to preview you next opponents tactics (unmanaged) to allow you counter instead of being in the dark..[/quote']

Preview would be great m8' date=' of course it could work easily, every match v unmanaged now is pot luck, this is a manager game were tactics are important, AI can't just play random then thats pointless to the human controlled team. (i dont want to be logging into find my teams losing to unmanaged not because im bad tactician but because the AI played a formation that i didn't have the chance to counter at any stage, before 8pm or during the match

Human can change to any tactic he wants but of course this is just the way, seeing as tough tactics is the most important thing over players in team, every match v unmanaged now is pointless somewhat as no skill is needed & if you lose there's not a whole lot you could of done, an introduction as i stated would be challanging but much better over what is the situation right now. (of course thats if this thing turns out to random samuel every game :o)

& losing to unmanaged, thats gets peoples gears grinded big time espcially when the human teamsheet is much stronger on paper, they will all me in here then

for example i had a shield charity final match tonight, i played 352 but i had no idea of what the AI was choosing.. no logic from a gaming perspective there, i won 4-1 & the AI played 3-5-2 as did myself, really i won this game beause the AI choose this form, another form would have seen me lose possibly..

Also there's many forms on SM BUT NOT ALL ARE POPULAR AMONG MANAGERS, caps :) if the AI starts playing these forms then it will challange many of us to find tactics to beat these forms we're not so used to going up against, playing vs AI should not be hard or pot luck, but if you have alittle skill on SM then you should be able to overcome them..[/quote']

These ^^^^^^.

For years I've said this is a game similar to 'rock/paper/scissors'.

Certain formations counter others but never all.

Obviously, quality players also count for something and I always relished going up against the stronger clubs.

But this match engine has begun spewing out even more ridiculous results. As Shell says above, it nullifies any tactics you may implement. Essentially, you don't know what you are up against other than their player ratings. The tactical aspect of the game is in large part what attracted me to the game. If it is now a completely random choice of formation then I'll probably just give it up & play the lottery instead. I may be better compensated.;)

But I think SM's motivation for doing so may be to close up some of the old game worlds that are not populated with many human managers. Frustrate the ones that are still there so they leave & consequently populate game worlds with more human managers where they could avoid such ridiculous results.

TBF, I feel far more confident going up against another human manager who's squad's ave rating is 5-10 points higher than mine than an unmanaged team with a lower rating.

That's not the way the game should be.

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Re: AI to choose from all 24 formations

These ^^^^^^.

For years I've said this is a game similar to 'rock/paper/scissors'.

Certain formations counter others but never all.

Obviously' date=' quality players also count for something and I always relished going up against the stronger clubs.

But this match engine has begun spewing out even more ridiculous results. As Shell says above, it nullifies any tactics you may implement. Essentially, you don't know what you are up against other than their player ratings. The tactical aspect of the game is in large part what attracted me to the game. If it is now a completely random choice of formation then I'll probably just give it up & play the lottery instead. I may be better compensated.;)

But I think SM's motivation for doing so may be to close up some of the old game worlds that are not populated with many human managers. Frustrate the ones that are still there so they leave & consequently populate game worlds with more human managers where they could avoid such ridiculous results.

TBF, I feel far more confident going up against another human manager who's squad's ave rating is 5-10 points higher than mine than an unmanaged team with a lower rating.

That's not the way the game should be.[/quote']

I agree 100%...unmanaged teams using 24 random formations renders tactics useless and pointless...I've got to the point where I don't bother changing formation anymore for unmanaged teams...I'm losing trophies right, left and centre to rubbish unmanaged teams...the odds are better playing a team thats managed..its farcical...you can bet your life Fergie knows that Man City are likely to use 4-2-3-1 on sunday...Mancini's used the same formation for every league match this season....if its going to be random there should be a preview at least....if it ain't broke don't fix it. :)

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Re: AI to choose from all 24 formations

Now you must pay (using coins) for help to work out the AI's next formation.. kinda goes against everything SM previously stood by?

formations the AI play for me so far have been "random"

SM wont make my suggestion, which i believe is in the good of the game as they want you to pay for this addition.. every match you play :)

maybe i got it all wrong.

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Re: AI to choose from all 24 formations

Hi,

The AI does not now pick a 'random' formation from the 24 available formations, quite the opposite.

It used to purely pick a random formation, either 4-4-2, 4-3-3 or 4-5-1.

Now it picks a formation based on the strengths of its squad and you should start to see clubs picking the same or very similar formations. Therefore by looking at a clubs squad and available players, and also their recent past formations you should be able to work out what type of formation they will play against you in their next match.

For example, if an unmanaged squad has a lot of good forward players it will try and include them all and pick 3-3-4 or 4-2-4.

As I said earlier this wasn't possible as it used to be a completely random choice of 3 formations.

So with a little effort you should be able to predict your oppositions formation and line-up yourself.

However, we have built the Scout Opposition tool to enable managers a 'short-cut' on analysing the opposition and for this there is a tiny charge of SM Credits.

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Re: AI to choose from all 24 formations

I'll wait and see but at the moment I just stick to 3-5-2 and usually win the league and a cup or two. There's a whole thread about countering formations but for me its just stick to the one that works for as long as you can... will be interesting to see if this change affects that.

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Re: AI to choose from all 24 formations

I'll wait and see but at the moment I just stick to 3-5-2 and usually win the league and a cup or two. There's a whole thread about countering formations but for me its just stick to the one that works for as long as you can... will be interesting to see if this change affects that.

Wish you continued good luck against the AI but be wary of coming up against someone who knows how to counter your 352.

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