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Riferimento: Re: How about making a realistic game engine ?

TACTIC SECRETS:

Use 3-5-2 slow' date=' attacking, last 3 checked-----unbelievable results.

Its not like we can hack in SM and fix the match engine. Here is the SECRET to not LOSING!

And If they try to counter that tactic, buy half time switch to 4-4-1-1 or 4-5-1 defensive, and you will manage a tie. PROOF:

I had Man City squad, and by half time, I was losing 3-1. I immediately switched tactics and beat Real Madrid! (3-3 by end of game--------Won 3-1 in penalties) :D:D:D:D:D:D Hope this works for all

ZLOOKY-PEDIA

What are this incredible results?

You play in competitive gw, gold championship or national championship (usually not competitive)? There are some differences, custom gw are harder than national championship. Let me know. :)

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Re: Riferimento: Re: Riferimento: How about making a realistic game engine ?

Sorry' date=' but till it's just your thought on how the engine works, and not how it works effectively, could you please share your informations with us, so that we can verify it for ourself?

You wouldn't disclose us the real functioning of the engine but just what you think you have discovered in your game experience.

Then we will also able to experiment, improve our experience and share our results with the community.

What do you think?

However thank you for your important contribution to this topic.[/quote']

Sure.

The experiments i tried where based on my attempt to come up with assumptions that would logically reflects real life. I put myself in SMs shoes and started making theories (as if I was programming a football management game) and checked these one by one. I have to add here that this is average based and the sample size is not large enough to make these conclusions concrete, but like you said the community can improve on them.

The patterns that emerged from these experiments tell me that the match engine follows these rough guide-lines:

1. Tactics is the main thing that determines who wins/loses.

2. Number of attackers vs number of defenders in tactics is a key point. More defenders means less goals conceded (but not necessarily a win).

3. Number of midfielders is directly related to possession. DMs and AMs count as midfielders.

4. Using arrows that actually transfers a player's position (from D to M or M to F) play a role in the final count of Ds, Ms, and Fs.

5. Teams with more possession tend to win more games.

6. Instructions for tactics play a big role in the overall outcome of that tactic (meaning the same tactic but with different instructions can have very different outcomes).

7. Ratings are not individual but rather team based because this is basically a team sport. Having Messi (99) in attack with a team of 90s is no different than having a team of 91s.

8. Condition and morale can have a negative effect on the outcome.

9. There is no horizontal effect on tactics, from left side to right side. (no pattern that i can see, may be needs more experimentation since they have these in the instructions).

Now applying these guidelines are not match specific. You can have more Ds and Ms and possession and shot and still lose. These pattern will start to emerge in the outcome of a whole season. With these guidelines applied on choosing my tactics for each individual match (i don't just use 1 tactic all the time - i choose my tactics depending on my opponent), I was able to win 3 leagues, 2 cups, finish a season without defeats, win a game 11-0, etc.

It doesn't mean I figured the engine out. It doesn't mean I'm invincible.

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Re: Riferimento: Re: How about making a realistic game engine ?

What are this incredible results?

You play in competitive gw' date=' gold championship or national championship (usually not competitive)? There are some differences, custom gw are harder than national championship. Let me know. :)[/quote']

Any sm owned gameworlds. Fors custom championships, they dont work.

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Re: How about making a realistic game engine ?

TACTIC SECRETS:

Use 3-5-2 slow' date=' attacking, last 3 checked-----unbelievable results.

Its not like we can hack in SM and fix the match engine. Here is the SECRET to not LOSING!

And If they try to counter that tactic, buy half time switch to 4-4-1-1 or 4-5-1 defensive, and you will manage a tie. PROOF:

I had Man City squad, and by half time, I was losing 3-1. I immediately switched tactics and beat Real Madrid! (3-3 by end of game--------Won 3-1 in penalties) :D:D:D:D:D:D Hope this works for all

ZLOOKY-PEDIA

3-5-2 is popular against unmanaged teams because it has the highest number of midfielders and forwards possible (all other tactics with 5 midfielders, including DMs and AMs, have 1 forward). This means that you tend to have a higher possession percentage and also higher ration of attackers vs defenders which tends to lead to more goals scored.

'Attacking' instruction tend to give more leverage for scoring (provided you have enough attacker v defender ration). This is a double edge sword. More leverage for scoring is always good to have a higher probability to win but sometimes what you want is a leverage towards not conceding (you were losing 3-1 at half time - may be 1 of those 3 goals could have been avoided).

'Slow' instruction tend to decrease the overall amount of scoring chances for the match. Again a double edge sword because if you have a dominant tactic against your opponent, it will mean you probably win with a lower score than possible (and will not have the achievement like 10-0 for example).

In a league with a majority of unmanaged clubs (or a lot of human managers who don't know what they are doing :)), you can use the 3-5-2 tactics with all normal instructions and never change that till the end of the season and still win it (provided you log on cup matches to refresh your player selection so they don't NMF).

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Riferimento: Re: Riferimento: Re: Riferimento: How about making a realistic game engi

Sure.

The experiments i tried where based on my attempt to come up with assumptions that would logically reflects real life. I put myself in SMs shoes and started making theories (as if I was programming a football management game) and checked these one by one. I have to add here that this is average based and the sample size is not large enough to make these conclusions concrete' date=' but like you said the community can improve on them.

The patterns that emerged from these experiments tell me that the match engine follows these rough guide-lines:

1. Tactics is the main thing that determines who wins/loses.

2. Number of attackers vs number of defenders in tactics is a key point. More defenders means less goals conceded (but not necessarily a win).

3. Number of midfielders is directly related to possession. DMs and AMs count as midfielders.

4. Using arrows that actually transfers a player's position (from D to M or M to F) play a role in the final count of Ds, Ms, and Fs.

5. Teams with more possession tend to win more games.

6. Instructions for tactics play a big role in the overall outcome of that tactic (meaning the same tactic but with different instructions can have very different outcomes).

7. Ratings are not individual but rather team based because this is basically a team sport. Having Messi (99) in attack with a team of 90s is no different than having a team of 91s.

8. Condition and morale can have a negative effect on the outcome.

9. There is no horizontal effect on tactics, from left side to right side. (no pattern that i can see, may be needs more experimentation since they have these in the instructions).

Now applying these guidelines are not match specific. You can have more Ds and Ms and possession and shot and still lose. These pattern will start to emerge in the outcome of a whole season. With these guidelines applied on choosing my tactics for each individual match (i don't just use 1 tactic all the time - i choose my tactics depending on my opponent), [b']I was able to win 3 leagues, 2 cups, finish a season without defeats, win a game 11-0, etc.[/b]

It doesn't mean I figured the engine out. It doesn't mean I'm invincible.

Very good, but in custom gameworlds this is impossible, especially if is a competitive gw. You said that choose your tactics depending on your opponent, can you tell me what counter formations do you use? thanks :)

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Re: Riferimento: Re: Riferimento: Re: Riferimento: How about making a realistic game

Very good' date=' but in custom gameworlds this is impossible, especially if is a competitive gw. You said that choose your tactics depending on your opponent, can you tell me what counter formations do you use? thanks :)[/quote']

1 league and 1 cup of those was in custom GWs against majority managed clubs. I'm still relatively new to this game so I'm only recently started to get in contact with the Big Guns around here :) I'm currently looking to join those highly competitive custom GWs to further test my theories.

As for countering, I usually look at (or try to predict) an opponent tactic then choose a tactic that is both higher in number of midfield and highest in attacker vs defender ration. If this is not possible then same number in midfield and highest attacker vs defender ratio. Attacker vs defender ratio means if he has 4 Ds, you should have 2 or more Fs (including AMs that have forward arrows to F).

By the way, if you have a higher team rating than your opponent (2 or 3 points higher), it's usually a good idea to use the same tactics they are using (while considering instructions that favor attack and possession eg. 'Attack' mentality and 'Short' passing).

The possibilities to counter a certain tactic are several (taking into account the use of direction arrows and the effects of 'instructions' like attacking/defending, fast/slow, short/long, etc.). That's why I can't come up with a counter tactic list, like the ones posted on the forums. I don't think I have enough experience to do that yet.

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Riferimento: Re: Riferimento: Re: Riferimento: How about making a realistic game engi

Sure.

The experiments i tried where based on my attempt to come up with assumptions that would logically reflects real life. I put myself in SMs shoes and started making theories (as if I was programming a football management game) and checked these one by one. I have to add here that this is average based and the sample size is not large enough to make these conclusions concrete' date=' but like you said the community can improve on them.

The patterns that emerged from these experiments tell me that the match engine follows these rough guide-lines:

[/quote']

The problem is the sample size, as you said. I won, i'd say, 50% of 200 matches with my old 3-5-2, but the problem is when you start losing (it happens in real life too, of course) and you can't find another good tactic...

Let's see point by point..

1. Tactics is the main thing that determines who wins/loses.

And this is the point of discussion. Is it real? is it not? the mistery continues...

2. Number of attackers vs number of defenders in tactics is a key point. More defenders means less goals conceded (but not necessarily a win).

3. Number of midfielders is directly related to possession. DMs and AMs count as midfielders.

Based on my experience' date=' i've got some doubt about it. 5 middlefielders are not enough to conquer the ball even facing a team with less middlefielders. And about the forwards, you can't have less than 3 defenders and you can't have more than 4 forwards, so it would be impossibile to score (unless a 334 is facing a 352 or similar).

4. Using arrows that actually transfers a player's position (from D to M or M to F) play a role in the final count of Ds, Ms, and Fs.

This is a very interesting point. If it's true, points 2 and 3 may be right, but apart from that it may true that the arrows modify the global count by role. I have to experiment it...

5. Teams with more possession tend to win more games.

I agree' date=' at least for 95% of matches it's true.

6. Instructions for tactics play a big role in the overall outcome of that tactic (meaning the same tactic but with different instructions can have very different outcomes).

Instructions are the biggest mistery in the game. I am starting to believe they are bugged (a simple example: i indicate a penalty shooter, the game makes penalty shot by another one. The same for free kicks. While offside/tight marking seem to have no effect of the game at all).

7. Ratings are not individual but rather team based because this is basically a team sport. Having Messi (99) in attack with a team of 90s is no different than having a team of 91s.

It may be true' date=' but i'm not sure.

8. Condition and morale can have a negative effect on the outcome.

It's true in theory, but i had wonderful matches by players with 95% of condition or 85 morale and awful matches by players with 100 in both of them. Maybe the global/average of the team is involved?

9. There is no horizontal effect on tactics' date=' from left side to right side. (no pattern that i can see, may be needs more experimentation since they have these in the instructions).

[/quote']

I didn't understand this point. :confused:

So, basing on my own experience, the thing i agree is on ball control and the arrow thing is interesting, but about the rest i think that, even if true, things are a bit more complicated than it seems! nice work, anyway! :)

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Re: How about making a realistic game engine ?

3-5-2 is popular against unmanaged teams because it has the highest number of midfielders and forwards possible (all other tactics with 5 midfielders' date=' including DMs and AMs, have 1 forward). This means that you tend to have a higher possession percentage and also higher ration of attackers vs defenders which tends to lead to more goals scored.

'Attacking' instruction tend to give more leverage for scoring (provided you have enough attacker v defender ration). This is a double edge sword. More leverage for scoring is always good to have a higher probability to win but sometimes what you want is a leverage towards not conceding (you were losing 3-1 at half time - may be 1 of those 3 goals could have been avoided).

'Slow' instruction tend to decrease the overall amount of scoring chances for the match. Again a double edge sword because if you have a dominant tactic against your opponent, it will mean you probably win with a lower score than possible (and will not have the achievement like 10-0 for example).

In a league with a majority of unmanaged clubs (or a lot of human managers who don't know what they are doing :)), you can use the 3-5-2 tactics with all normal instructions and never change that till the end of the season and still win it (provided you log on cup matches to refresh your player selection so they don't NMF).[/quote']

its random: Won 10-0 with it, and won 5-4 with it.

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Re: How about making a realistic game engine ?

TACTIC SECRETS:

Use 3-5-2 slow' date=' attacking, last 3 checked-----unbelievable results.

Its not like we can hack in SM and fix the match engine. Here is the SECRET to not LOSING!

And If they try to counter that tactic, buy half time switch to 4-4-1-1 or 4-5-1 defensive, and you will manage a tie. PROOF:

I had Man City squad, and by half time, I was losing 3-1. I immediately switched tactics and beat Real Madrid! (3-3 by end of game--------Won 3-1 in penalties) :D:D:D:D:D:D Hope this works for all

ZLOOKY-PEDIA

i just won with Barca against Stuttgart 9-2 at home with this tactic-3-5-2...stupid...

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Riferimento: How about making a realistic game engine ?

My last match against Phil's Montpellier. He asked me to upload it here :rolleyes: so we can collect your thought on it.

The result was fine for me, i mean it was realistic according to stats, for once. But according to SM, fast tempo + attacking mentality (Montpellier tactic) should bring to a lowest ball possession, while instead...

And, according to King Leo theory on arrows, he played with 6 forwards.

2wrou2o.jpg

And here they are the starting teams

24e4za1.jpg

I think we all need an ufficial and updated SM guide to tactic: not from an expert user (useful, of course, but not official), something from the staff on which we can have no doubt.

I don't mean a guide on "how to win with no doubt" discovering the game secrets, but "what the SM tactics and indication actually mean" , since we see everyday that what the guide means is not what the engine realizes at the end: that would allow the managers to actually enjoy the game, i think.

PS: PrestonDan,me too i won 100 % of matches on my gameworlds, from times to times. But i still think that there's something to clear on the rules of the game or to fix in the engine, at your choice.

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Riferimento: Re: How about making a realistic game engine ?

i have heard a rumour of a 2d match engine and updates to the engine itself' date=' so im willing to wait to see how that goes, but come on SM please give us a time frame on this!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote']

What is the source?

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Re: How about making a realistic game engine ?

SM themselves mentioned it a long long long time ago - it was only going to be a "watch the Score Centre as 2D match highlights instead of commentary" sort of thing though so nothing to get too excited about...

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Re: How about making a realistic game engine ?

Here's realism for you: injury-prone stars.

I got Ronaldo (98) and in the first game he gets injured for... 7 weeks.

I love you SoccerManager :mad:

Oh.... and this. I played against an unmanaged Greece

B2MKOn6.png

izbJ7cO.png

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