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Riferimento: Re: How about making a realistic game engine ?

Hah! Just saw this-- A Barcelona manager that has been inactive for 9 days now won 2-0 against Man. city in Euro Champ' date=' with Pinto ( GK ) on the wing, arrow going down. Pinto scored in the 18th minute! Granted the line-up and formation was not his decision.

( was going to show a screenshot, but don't know how to paste it here )[/quote']

lol

I love you soccer manager too

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Re: How about making a realistic game engine ?

I know that on this topic people will always say that it is down to tactics or the fact that sometimes the big guns get beaten, I have just had a look at something interesting:

The last two seasons I have been knocked out of the SMFA cup by SS Lazio with a highest player rating of 89 - I have the likes of messi ronaldo etc etc. I have matched their tactics on all occasions and have only managed 1 draw vs 3 loses.

I could take this without getting too worried or conerned at first, but I just checked the history of Lazio in the SMFA cup (as they aren't available to manage) and this is their history:

season 22 - SMFA shield winner

season 23 - SMFA super cup run-up

season 26 - SMFA shield winner

season 27 - SMFA super cup winner

season 28 - SMFA champions cup winner

season 29 - SMFA super cup run-up

season 30 - in the SMFA shampions cup final

I find it extremely hard to believe that this unmanaged club with no player above 90 is 'getting lucky' with these results.

I don't mind the underdog winning now and again as everyone does, but not season after season SM!

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Re: How about making a realistic game engine ?

I know that on this topic people will always say that it is down to tactics or the fact that sometimes the big guns get beaten' date=' I have just had a look at something interesting:

The last two seasons I have been knocked out of the SMFA cup by SS Lazio with a highest player rating of 89 - I have the likes of messi ronaldo etc etc. I have matched their tactics on all occasions and have only managed 1 draw vs 3 loses.

I could take this without getting too worried or conerned at first, but I just checked the history of Lazio in the SMFA cup (as they aren't available to manage) and this is their history:

season 22 - SMFA shield winner

season 23 - SMFA super cup run-up

season 26 - SMFA shield winner

season 27 - SMFA super cup winner

season 28 - SMFA champions cup winner

season 29 - SMFA super cup run-up

season 30 - in the SMFA shampions cup final

I find it extremely hard to believe that this unmanaged club with no player above 90 is 'getting lucky' with these results.

I don't mind the underdog winning now and again as everyone does, but not season after season SM![/quote']

good interesting post that Harry, in my setup i don't have the problem in the SMFA cup, but i do in all the other cups and i've not won a world cup in the 5 years i've played sm.

I've won every SMFA cups bar two, thats out of the 7 seasons the cups been available i won it 5 times, ironically my original team has won the other 2.

I usually defend SM but its peoples attitudes that bother me but you've managed to say what you want without any attitude or malice, i think the match engine is slightly different for cups and my usual responce to people is if that it stops the superteams ie My Barca team and the team you mentioned with Messi and Ronaldo winning it every year and keeps it interesting. You might say its not the point but it stops setups having one manager in it.

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Riferimento: Re: How about making a realistic game engine ?

Let's play a game. I report the stats of 3 of my last matches, you guess the results, i want to see who will get closer to the truth.

I know that also some other details are important, but let's see how these stats work, to you.

Of course, nobody can guess the exact result, but it's just a game to see if you consider them realistic...

(numbers are: formations, average of the team, possessions, total shoots, shoots on goal)

River-Twente

442 (diamond) vs 32221

88-88

poss. 49% - 51%

t.s. 12-18

s.o.g. 4-10

Fiorentina-Celtic

4231 vs 352

91-90

poss. 49%-51%

t.s. 9-16

s.o.g. 6-8

Manchester UTD - Tottenham

433 (wings) - 3421

90-91

57%-43%

t.s. 22-11

s.o.g. 11-4

Manchester with a red card at 51' (a midfielder)

good interesting post that Harry' date=' in my setup i don't have the problem in the SMFA cup, but i do in all the other cups and i've not won a world cup in the 5 years i've played sm.

I've won every SMFA cups bar two, thats out of the 7 seasons the cups been available i won it 5 times, ironically my original team has won the other 2.

I usually defend SM but its peoples attitudes that bother me but you've managed to say what you want without any attitude or malice, i think the match engine is slightly different for cups and my usual responce to people is if that it stops the superteams ie [b']My Barca[/b] team and the team you mentioned with Messi and Ronaldo winning it every year and keeps it interesting. You might say its not the point but it stops setups having one manager in it.

When you report that everything in tactics works fine and you keep winning, you aren't referring to a world in which you use Barça, don't you? :confused: Just to understand...

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Re: Riferimento: Re: How about making a realistic game engine ?

Let's play a game. I report the stats of 3 of my last matches' date=' you guess the results, i want to see who will get closer to the truth.

I know that also some other details are important, but let's see how these stats work, to you.

Of course, nobody can guess the exact result, but it's just a game to see if you consider them realistic...

(numbers are: formations, average of the team, possessions, total shoots, shoots on goal)

[b']River-Twente [/b]

442 (diamond) vs 32221

88-88

poss. 49% - 51%

t.s. 12-18

s.o.g. 4-10

Fiorentina-Celtic

4231 vs 352

91-90

poss. 49%-51%

t.s. 9-16

s.o.g. 6-8

Manchester UTD - Tottenham

433 (wings) - 3421

90-91

57%-43%

t.s. 22-11

s.o.g. 11-4

Manchester with a red card at 51' (a midfielder)

When you report that everything in tactics works fine and you keep winning, you aren't referring to a world in which you use Barça, don't you? :confused: Just to understand...

i wont guess the scores but i think..

TWENTE won..

FIORENTINA won..

Totthenham won...

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Re: Riferimento: Re: How about making a realistic game engine ?

River-Twente

442 (diamond) vs 32221

88-88

poss. 49% - 51%

t.s. 12-18

s.o.g. 4-10

Fiorentina-Celtic

4231 vs 352

91-90

poss. 49%-51%

t.s. 9-16

s.o.g. 6-8

Manchester UTD - Tottenham

433 (wings) - 3421

90-91

57%-43%

t.s. 22-11

s.o.g. 11-4

Manchester with a red card at 51' (a midfielder)

First Game - River win (scoring 3 or 4) with the Twente GK getting a 5.

Second Game - To be honest, any score would be realistic for this one. A 5-0 win for either teams or even a 5-5 draw. The formations allow for either to happen (4 Ds against 2 Fs vs 3 Ds against 1F both with 5 Ms).

Third Game - Tottenham win (scoring 3 or 4) with the Man Utd GK getting a 5.

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Riferimento: Re: Riferimento: Re: How about making a realistic game engine ?

Thanks to JMH and King Leo for joining my little experiment. Of course, i think nobody can understand a result from the match stats, even in real football and i did not expect you to guess it, it's not a contest. Point was not to see how good you are about football, i hope it was clear. Point was jut to make you think on what kind of matches these statistics would suit.

So, let's see what really happened.

;2476928']

TWENTE won..

First Game - River win (scoring 3 or 4) with the Twente GK getting a 5.

River - Twente 2-2

;2476928']

FIORENTINA won..

Second Game - To be honest' date=' any score would be realistic for this one. A 5-0 win for either teams or even a 5-5 draw. The formations allow for either to happen (4 Ds against 2 Fs vs 3 Ds against 1F both with 5 Ms).

[/quote']

Fiorentina-Celtic 0-5

;2476928']

Totthenham won...

Third Game - Tottenham win (scoring 3 or 4) with the Man Utd GK getting a 5.

Manchester - Totthenam 8-1

You can continue this experiment by yourself if you wish: see how many results you can guess from the stats only in your gameworlds, i think that the results not coherent with the stats will be more than expected.

I like this game and i'd like to give my contribution to improving it, that's why i write these things. So, it's not that we complain just when we lose (at least, i'm not satisfied but an absurd win like my 8-1 to spurs, even if i'm happier to win of course :D ) , if the engine is not perfectly fixed it affects all the matches, also the ones in which we have a good result.

It's not a "complain against the evil engine" thread to me. It's a "Let's share our observations on the engine to help SM improve it" one...

Two questions, then:

Do the stats actually affect the results or not?

( i do believe that the result depends on the tactics more than on the stats, but the first have so many variables to check that we are unable to understand if they work, we can just hope they do and keep on looking for the best tactic for oure teams).

Why do approx. in half of the matches results, tactics and stats seem to be coherent and incoherent in some way in the other half? (from my experience, these are the figures) . In real football it happens often, but not in so many matches. We should understand what happens in matches in which the engine works fine.

Keep on posting your observations... :)

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Riferimento: Re: How about making a realistic game engine ?

That was easy' date=' you could tell who was going to win based on the formations.

Another weekend with p5 w4 d1 so no complaints about the match engine for me.[/quote']

If it was easy, King Leo and JMH (that is quite expert of the game, for what i know :rolleyes:) would have guessed at least who won one of the match, but they could guess not even one. The only match guessed was Fiorentina-Celtic by King Leo, but only because King Leo said that "any score would be realistic for this one. A 5-0 win for either teams or even a 5-5 draw" (the more general you make a prediction , the greater the probability you'll guess, but he guessed the 5 goals, at least).

The point was that it was not difficult to guess, it was impossible and i knew that.

I said nothing about what was before the match but the averages and formations (nothing about trend, moral, condition, indications, etc : all things that influence the result, of course), i just reported what was the descriptions that SM gave of the matches ( i.e. the match stats) . And, from the formations and the descriptions it has been impossible to understand the match. This doesn't sound good, to me.

Anyway, just 3 matches and 2 people guessing isn't a good statistic. We could keep on posting things like those, but i think we'll keep on noticing what we know yet: the results seem to have nothing to do with the formations and the final stats...

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Re: Riferimento: Re: How about making a realistic game engine ?

If it was easy' date=' King Leo and JMH (that is quite expert of the game, for what i know :rolleyes:) would have guessed at least who won [b']one[/b] of the match, but they could guess not even one. The only match guessed was Fiorentina-Celtic by King Leo, but only because King Leo said that "any score would be realistic for this one. A 5-0 win for either teams or even a 5-5 draw" (the more general you make a prediction , the greater the probability you'll guess, but he guessed the 5 goals, at least).

The point was that it was not difficult to guess, it was impossible and i knew that.

I said nothing about what was before the match but the averages and formations (nothing about trend, moral, condition, indications, etc : all things that influence the result, of course), i just reported what was the descriptions that SM gave of the matches ( i.e. the match stats) . And, from the formations and the descriptions it has been impossible to understand the match. This doesn't sound good, to me.

Anyway, just 3 matches and 2 people guessing isn't a good statistic. We could keep on posting things like those, but i think we'll keep on noticing what we know yet: the results seem to have nothing to do with the formations and the final stats...

To be honest, that's not exactly what I was doing. I thought the original post was about how the match engine was 'broken' so I was going for the extreme predictions that could still make 'sense' in real life.

Also, my past week results seems to have influenced my predictions. They included 4 games where I had better overall stats than the opponents but lost 3 and drew 1 because the opponent GKs got 9/10 and were MoM in 3 games and my GK got a 4 in 1. They were similar stats to the games posted, that's why.

For me, it's an interesting approach for discussion.

Here's some interesting examples:

Team A: 352

Rating 91 - Pos. 46% - Shots 14/11

Team B: 442

Rating 91 - Pos. 54% - Shots 9/5

Team C: 451 Defensive

Rating 91 - Pos. 46% - Shots 16/11

Team D: 4231

Rating 89 - Pos. 54% - Shots 9/7

Results?

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Riferimento: Re: Riferimento: Re: How about making a realistic game engine ?

For me' date=' it's an interesting approach for discussion.

[/quote']

Thanks, i'm glad you understood the reason to do an experiment like this! :)

Team A: 352

Rating 91 - Pos. 46% - Shots 14/11

Team B: 442

Rating 91 - Pos. 54% - Shots 9/5

My guess based on SM games : team B won (and with at least a couple of goals more: 2-0' date=' 3-1...)

My guess based on logic: team A should have won

Team C: 451 Defensive

Rating 91 - Pos. 46% - Shots 16/11

Team D: 4231

Rating 89 - Pos. 54% - Shots 9/7

My guess: team C won

I add three other matches, for every body willing to join the experiment. They happened today in the same GW (so, just one of them is my team) .

Team A: 3-2-2-2-1

Rating: 88 Pos 50% Shots 26/15

Team B: 3-4-1-2

Rating:89 Pos 50% Shots 21/9 (1 red card at 47': a CB)

Team C: 4-3-3

Rating:89 Pos: 28% Shots 12/4

Team D: 4-5-1

Rating: 90 Pos: 72% Shots 16/8

Team E: 4-3-1-2

Rating: 90 Pos: 33% Shots 15/12

Team F: 4-2-3-1

Rating : 89 Pos: 67% Shots 9/4 (1 red card at 78' : a RB)

Results?

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Re: Riferimento: Re: Riferimento: Re: How about making a realistic game engine ?

Thanks' date=' i'm glad you understood the reason to do an experiment like this! :)

My guess based on SM games : team B won (and with at least a couple of goals more: 2-0, 3-1...)

My guess based on logic: team A should have won

My guess: team C won

I add three other matches, for every body willing to join the experiment. They happened today in the same GW (so, just one of them is my team) .

Team A: 3-2-2-2-1

Rating: 88 Pos 50% Shots 26/15

Team B: 3-4-1-2

Rating:89 Pos 50% Shots 21/9 (1 red card at 47': a CB)

Team C: 4-3-3

Rating:89 Pos: 28% Shots 12/4

Team D: 4-5-1

Rating: 90 Pos: 72% Shots 16/8

Team E: 4-3-1-2

Rating: 90 Pos: 33% Shots 15/12

Team F: 4-2-3-1

Rating : 89 Pos: 67% Shots 9/4 (1 red card at 78' : a RB)

Results?[/quote']

Team B and D won, 0-3 and 0-2 and in my opinion it has to do with the forward arrows both teams gave for their wide players.

The ones you posted:

1) They are both having 3Ds 4Ms 3Fs but I would say Team B won.

2) High scoring game and Team D won.

3) A draw or Team F won (GK ratings play a role here).

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Re: How about making a realistic game engine ?

Hello everyone.

Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to provide feedback as this helps us continue to tweak the match engine which we believe to be already very good. There are some good ideas within this thread so please keep them coming as we do read your constructive posts and pass them on to the development team and some of them are also incorporated into the match engine :)

I've also noticed that some of the feedback that has been provided contains bugs, for example a player getting a red card in the 68th minute and then scoring in the 80th minute. If you experience anything like this or anything else irregular (i'm not talking about a low rated team beating a high rated team :)) could you please report this as a bug (this can be done via Help > Report Bug) so that we can fix this problem.

So keep your ideas coming no matter how simple or crazy they are and you never know they could be incorporated into the match engine :)

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Re: How about making a realistic game engine ?

Hello everyone.

Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to provide feedback as this helps us continue to tweak the match engine which we believe to be already very good. There are some good ideas within this thread so please keep them coming as we do read your constructive posts and pass them on to the development team and some of them are also incorporated into the match engine :)

I've also noticed that some of the feedback that has been provided contains bugs' date=' for example a player getting a red card in the 68th minute and then scoring in the 80th minute. If you experience anything like this or anything else irregular (i'm not talking about a low rated team beating a high rated team :)) could you please report this as a bug (this can be done via Help > Report Bug) so that we can fix this problem.

So keep your ideas coming no matter how simple or crazy they are and you never know they could be incorporated into the match engine :)[/quote']

So what exactly defines a bug in a match? Things that are not realistic? Things that are not logical? Things that don't make sense? I mean how about a GK playing as ML and scoring a goal, is that a bug? How about a player getting MoM when his match rating is 9 but another player has match rating of 10, is that a bug? How about a player scoring a goal and making 3 assists getting a match rating of 7 while another player who didn't score or assists getting match rating of 9 (and not GK), is that a bug? How about a team winning 2-0 with 8 of its 11 players getting a match rating of 5, is that a bug?

I am not being sarcastic here, I am really asking because I saw all these cases happen. Should I report all these as bugs? And if I do (and fellow forumers do as well) what will the feedback be?

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Re: How about making a realistic game engine ?

Hello everyone.

Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to provide feedback as this helps us continue to tweak the match engine which we believe to be already very good. There are some good ideas within this thread so please keep them coming as we do read your constructive posts and pass them on to the development team and some of them are also incorporated into the match engine :)

I've also noticed that some of the feedback that has been provided contains bugs' date=' for example a player getting a red card in the 68th minute and then scoring in the 80th minute. If you experience anything like this or anything else irregular (i'm not talking about a low rated team beating a high rated team :)) could you please report this as a bug (this can be done via Help > Report Bug) so that we can fix this problem.

So keep your ideas coming no matter how simple or crazy they are and you never know they could be incorporated into the match engine :)[/quote']

You believe the match engine is very good!!!

The SMFA Cup match engine is shockingly bad and shockingly predictable as there are way too many upsets and stupid results.

In a gold championship where fitness counts my 95rtd 100% fit team recently lost to a 90rtd nmf team 5-2 at home....how does a nmf team win a game let alone win 5-2.If you believe the current match engine is very good then I'm very worried.

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Re: How about making a realistic game engine ?

You believe the match engine is very good!!!

The SMFA Cup match engine is shockingly bad and shockingly predictable as there are way too many upsets and stupid results.

In a gold championship where fitness counts my 95rtd 100% fit team recently lost to a 90rtd nmf team 5-2 at home....how does a nmf team win a game let alone win 5-2.If you believe the current match engine is very good then I'm very worried.

Nicely said.

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Re: How about making a realistic game engine ?

So what exactly defines a bug in a match? Things that are not realistic? Things that are not logical? Things that don't make sense? I mean how about a GK playing as ML and scoring a goal' date=' is that a bug? How about a player getting MoM when his match rating is 9 but another player has match rating of 10, is that a bug? How about a player scoring a goal and making 3 assists getting a match rating of 7 while another player who didn't score or assists getting match rating of 9 (and not GK), is that a bug? How about a team winning 2-0 with 8 of its 11 players getting a match rating of 5, is that a bug?

I am not being sarcastic here, I am really asking because I saw all these cases happen. Should I report all these as bugs? And if I do (and fellow forumers do as well) what will the feedback be?[/quote']

Hello King Leo. The only bug would be "a GK playing as ML and scoring a goal", as all the others points you have raised are perfectly reasonable in football.

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Re: How about making a realistic game engine ?

Hello everyone.

Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to provide feedback as this helps us continue to tweak the match engine which we believe to be already very good. There are some good ideas within this thread so please keep them coming as we do read your constructive posts and pass them on to the development team and some of them are also incorporated into the match engine :)

I've also noticed that some of the feedback that has been provided contains bugs' date=' for example a player getting a red card in the 68th minute and then scoring in the 80th minute. If you experience anything like this or anything else irregular (i'm not talking about a low rated team beating a high rated team :)) could you please report this as a bug (this can be done via Help > Report Bug) so that we can fix this problem.

So keep your ideas coming no matter how simple or crazy they are and you never know they could be incorporated into the match engine :)[/quote']

We don't want new ideas, we want a match engine that functions the way it should. If you want to see some examples of how it should not be then please just read through this thread. You're only commenting on the bugs which could very well be bugs, yet you do not comment on people who lose 5-2 to a NMF team with team rated 5 points lower and don't say that's the only case and it 'sometimes' happens, because those sorts of matches happen, frequently!

I know you're just doing your job and you probably work hard like everyone else does, but if you decide to comment please address all problems and not just the ones that are bugs :rolleyes: Otherwise I have to be honest and say that its better not to post here at all..

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Re: How about making a realistic game engine ?

Hello everyone.

Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to provide feedback as this helps us continue to tweak the match engine which we believe to be already very good. There are some good ideas within this thread so please keep them coming as we do read your constructive posts and pass them on to the development team and some of them are also incorporated into the match engine :)

I've also noticed that some of the feedback that has been provided contains bugs' date=' for example a player getting a red card in the 68th minute and then scoring in the 80th minute. If you experience anything like this or anything else irregular (i'm not talking about a low rated team beating a high rated team :)) could you please report this as a bug (this can be done via Help > Report Bug) so that we can fix this problem.

So keep your ideas coming no matter how simple or crazy they are and you never know they could be incorporated into the match engine :)[/quote']

Yet again your pathetic machine engine strikes in the smfa cup!

SMFA Cup ko rnd1- Real Salt Lake 3 Bayern Munich(me) 0...3 shots on target and 3 goals.These results are just so predictable that you just come to expect them from the Match Engine you believe to be very good....laughable!

Why do these upsets just keep on happening? And why by such big margins?

The games are never close, a 1-0 loss you can accept but 3-0 is pathetic from this very good match engine:rolleyes:

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Re: How about making a realistic game engine ?

Yet again your pathetic machine engine strikes in the smfa cup!

SMFA Cup ko rnd1- Real Salt Lake 3 Bayern Munich(me) 0...3 shots on target and 3 goals.These results are just so predictable that you just come to expect them from the Match Engine you believe to be very good....laughable!

Why do these upsets just keep on happening? And why by such big margins?

The games are never close' date=' a 1-0 loss you can accept but 3-0 is pathetic from this very good match engine:rolleyes:[/quote']

In last week's real-life Bundesliga fixtures Bayern were playing Fortuna Dusseldorf (15th - a team that is only 1 step away from the relegation zone) and it was a home game. Bayern Munich, in real life, top of the league with 20 points away from the second place team and everybody is saying they might win a treble this year. So what happened in that match? Up to the 71st minute Bayern were down 1-2 although they had more than 70% possession and about 17 shots on goal. Dusseldorf had only 4 shots on goal and only 2 on target scoring twice! Ok, Bayern went on to equalize and score the winner in the 86th minute.

How did they do that? It was not just saying that we are the better team and we should win. No. They made 3 subs, they went into ultra attack mode, they starting pushing players forward (the winner was scored by a defender from a cross by the right back).

Yes, the match engine could use some tweaking to produce better results (or more accurately, better representation of results) but the example you use to 'prove' that the match engine is a joke is a joke by itself.

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