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simsim7676

Players hogging and collecting

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I wish you guys make some improvement, that would enforce managers, that go around buying all the players, and never really using them, while they are develepoing concerns. I know, at one point, they will hand in their transfer request. My suggestion, is make it sooner, way sooner. Right now, you almost have to wait for couple of seasons, for them to hand in a leave request. SO, please do something about that, to make the play more fair. How is it fair, in one gw, where one person has the top 40 players in sm, while using starting eleven, that don't even has one of thse top players. So why buy them???? why ruin it for everybody else????? Please, as soon as a player develps a concern, they should have about a week to address it.

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Re: Players hogging and collecting

That will never change mate...in fact they've helped those managers by allowing unmanaged teams to loan players from them....I've been playing 5 years and I can honestly say the game's become an absolute joke...you just have to go with the flow or quit.

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Re: Players hogging and collecting

There are many flaws in SM, like there are in any game, but this isn't one of them. I don't see a problem of realism: the problem probably lies more in your impatience.

In real life, players are typically contracted for three, four and five years at a time, so clubs are under no obligation to get rid of players in an instant. Players can easily potter around at the fringes of a big club's squad for a good year or two - or longer if they're being paid well - before being shifted on.

Hleb stayed at Barcelona for four years despite playing just nineteen games in that time. Song's only been used in a third of Barca's La Liga fixtures since joining, but he's no chance to leave unless Barcelona is desperate to offload him. And so on.

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Re: Players hogging and collecting

There are many flaws in SM' date=' like there are in any game, but this isn't one of them. I don't see a problem of realism: the problem probably lies more in your impatience.

In real life, players are typically contracted for three, four and five years at a time, so clubs are under no obligation to get rid of players in an instant. Players can easily potter around at the fringes of a big club's squad for a good year or two - or longer if they're being paid well - before being shifted on.

Hleb stayed at Barcelona for four years despite playing just nineteen games in that time. Song's only been used in a third of Barca's La Liga fixtures since joining, but he's no chance to leave unless Barcelona is desperate to offload him. And so on.[/quote']

Problem of realism... if you can provide me with an example of a club with 100+ players (16+), I won't argue with you. And if you want to talk about those kind of examples, let's talk about Fryers, Pogba & Morrison (all from United) who left because of their wages/game time

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Re: Players hogging and collecting

Player hogging seemed to be slowing down with the introduction of player concerns but recently everything seems to have become less strict.

Concerns are less strict, I have barely 2 players in each of my teams with worries and have probably at least 20+ 90+ rated players.

The introduction of loaning out 200 players means teams can hog players to an even greater extent than before. no wages = no negative reasons not to buy every young up coming talent.

Sm is becoming more dumbed down than ever before. I'm not complaining. I'm not as active as I once was. I can happily manage my 2 awesome teams with minimum worries now. Unfortunately all you can do is join them because you wont beat them. Try to get in to a new set up early and snap up the talent.

Its a case of 1 step forward 3 steps back.

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Re: Players hogging and collecting

Player concerns were quite fast few months ago in a sense that it was easy for players to develop concerns for lack of playing times, especially after SM "tweak" the concerns' settings... and people here were going on a shooting rampage because of that :D and demanded that concerns to be reasonable... or else they will organize a mass resignation from the game.

SM agreed and it toned down the concerns' setting. Not only that, SM also introduced this new feature called "unmanaged clubs can now loan your players," presumably to satisfy the no-squad-cap brigade's Game World domination :D

Therefore, the only way to be competitive is to purchase the coins, reserve either Barcelona or Real Madrid, and buy all those players that you have always wanted in your squad. After few weeks, one manager will resign after the other and then it's only you and 1 or 2 other managers which will never be able to compete with you anyway.

When so many clubs are unmanaged, you can easily continue your spending spree and then loan them back to unamanged clubs, and then you can go to sleep at night thinking "yes, I am the King of All Kings, and I will win every single competition in my game world and nobody can stop me.. HAHAHAHA..."

or something like that.... :D

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Re: Players hogging and collecting

Player concerns were quite fast few months ago in a sense that it was easy for players to develop concerns for lack of playing times' date=' especially after SM "tweak" the concerns' settings... and people here were going on a shooting rampage because of that :D and demanded that concerns to be reasonable... or else they will organize a mass resignation from the game.

SM agreed and it toned down the concerns' setting. Not only that, SM also introduced this new feature called "unmanaged clubs can now loan your players," presumably to satisfy the no-squad-cap brigade's Game World domination :D

Therefore, the only way to be competitive is to purchase the coins, reserve either Barcelona or Real Madrid, and buy all those players that you have always wanted in your squad. After few weeks, one manager will resign after the other and then it's only you and 1 or 2 other managers which will never be able to compete with you anyway.

When so many clubs are unmanaged, you can easily continue your spending spree and then loan them back to unmanaged clubs, and then you can go to sleep at night thinking "yes, I am the King of All Kings, and I will win every single competition in my game world and nobody can stop me.. HAHAHAHA..."

or something like that.... :D[/quote']

Indeed. I forgot to mention should a player dare get a level 4 concern you can just pay him off and (probably) loan him out again until he will sign a lower contract again. Either way he isnt leaving unless you say! Totally makes sense! :)

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Re: Players hogging and collecting

Player Trading is the only way to make money in this game. Yeah you can argue that you can win and make money but for a lower league club this is the most effective way.

In more sophisticated management games (CM, FM, etc) you can make money in other ways as you can control almost every aspect of your club.

Ideally a a maximum of 100 is reasonable. 50 First team 50 youth. I know real clubs never have this but it will kill the game is the limit is lower.

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Re: Players hogging and collecting

The answer to the problem of player collecting/hoarding is quite simple. People do it because they can! So, don't allow them to do it.

If a squad cap was introduced, let's say for arguments sake 75 players max.(that way you have a 1st team, a reserve team and a youth teamof 25 players in each) then when there is a new player available that you want to buy you need to make room if your squad is full. This allows new managers or smaller teams the opportunity to buy new players themselves, instead of being stuck with what they've got, and also stops the bigger clubs, or longer serving managers from collecting/hoarding all the best players! It is that simple, AND there is no downside from what I can figure! Maybe a slightly increased premium on players that are transfer Listed, but then if they don't sell they can't buy!

People may argue that it is unrealistic to introduce a squad cap, but by the same token, having a squad of 100+ players is unrealistic so that's a non-starter as far as I'm concerned.

I have been a manager on SM for nearly 2 years and I NEVER need to have more than around 50 players at any one time, simply because it's pointless, apart from wanting £millions in transfer fees available to you, but it is detrimental to the whole game. Leagues never fill up simply because the longer serving managers collect/hoard all of the top players so there are none available for the newer managers who join in. Fairness is the way to go to keep everyone involved and we clearly cannot rely on the individual to keep things fair. So, this is my suggestion/solution to an ever increasing problem and, I think anyway, a particularly good one....if I don't say so myself! :) I'm sure I'm not the 1st person to suggest it either!

SM.....please make this happen!!!

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Re: Players hogging and collecting

Here's a new solution - why let the big team managers in a game world get to the stage where they have the best new talent? Surely you have the same opportunity to sign them in new game worlds?

Or is it Old game worlds?......what makes you think that as a new manager you are entitled to come in and expect to sign the best players and talent off managers who have put a lot of effort into havin the foresight to sign their next generation team? You have to gain the long term managers respect by hangin around 1st and build your own good team to compete and trade with... It ain't hard, frustrating at times yeah but just need patience.

Go manage a big team if you want instant success in a game world, thousands of them available in soccermanager. You obviously aren't patient enough for this game if you cant go into almost any game world and build a nice team and find great youth players from scratch. Blaming managers for 'hogging' is admitting defeat and proves your too weak a manager to be in that game world in the 1st place

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Re: Players hogging and collecting

I wish you guys make some improvement' date=' that would enforce managers, that go around buying all the players, and never really using them, while they are develepoing concerns. I know, at one point, they will hand in their transfer request. My suggestion, is make it sooner, way sooner. Right now, you almost have to wait for couple of seasons, for them to hand in a leave request. SO, please do something about that, to make the play more fair. How is it fair, in one gw, where one person has the top 40 players in sm, while using starting eleven, that don't even has one of thse top players. So why buy them???? why ruin it for everybody else????? Please, as soon as a player develps a concern, they should have about a week to address it.[/quote']

simsim, im sorry but you are missing a point, some of these managers have been managing these teams since day one, they have built that team up and earned the right play whoever they want. Would it really be fair for a new mananger to come along and complain to want the rules changed ? How would you like it if in 5 years time people complain and say how you do things is wrong and you get told how to run your teams ?

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Re: Players hogging and collecting

Here's a new solution - why let the big team managers in a game world get to the stage where they have the best new talent? Surely you have the same opportunity to sign them in new game worlds?

Or is it Old game worlds?......what makes you think that as a new manager you are entitled to come in and expect to sign the best players and talent off managers who have put a lot of effort into havin the foresight to sign their next generation team? You have to gain the long term managers respect by hangin around 1st and build your own good team to compete and trade with... It ain't hard' date=' frustrating at times yeah but just need patience.

Go manage a big team if you want instant success in a game world, thousands of them available in soccermanager. You obviously aren't patient enough for this game if you cant go into almost any game world and build a nice team and find great youth players from scratch. Blaming managers for 'hogging' is admitting defeat and proves your too weak a manager to be in that game world in the 1st place[/quote']

I totally agree with this. If you are sick of the player hogging, go and move to another team in another league. Most people who hog all of these players wont be around in the long run anyway as most of them are 15-18 and mostly unproven and rated in the 70's

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Re: Players hogging and collecting

Here's a new solution - why let the big team managers in a game world get to the stage where they have the best new talent? Surely you have the same opportunity to sign them in new game worlds?

Or is it Old game worlds?......what makes you think that as a new manager you are entitled to come in and expect to sign the best players and talent off managers who have put a lot of effort into havin the foresight to sign their next generation team? You have to gain the long term managers respect by hangin around 1st and build your own good team to compete and trade with... It ain't hard' date=' frustrating at times yeah but just need patience.

Go manage a big team if you want instant success in a game world, thousands of them available in soccermanager. You obviously aren't patient enough for this game if you cant go into almost any game world and build a nice team and find great youth players from scratch. Blaming managers for 'hogging' is admitting defeat and proves your too weak a manager to be in that game world in the 1st place[/quote']

Nobody is suggesting the rules be changed for existing leagues where managers have worked hard to build there squads, not at all! There are, however, new leagues being opened every day! So why not start opening new leagues with a squad cap in place? There is no reason this can't happen! My comments are not made in the interest of me, but in the interest of the majority of managers I converse with about this topic. I would say 90% would agree with a squad cap. And it's not because we want instant success either! Again, it's in the interest of fairness for everyone, new managers and old! Personally, I've been around for a couple of years so I'm hardly a new manager and I'm involved with some very competitive leagues, but when you see squads of 100+ some even with 200+ you have to ask..."what are they doing with all those players???" The answer is not a lot...using them to make money so they can eventually try to buy a ll the best players!

Currently, in La Liga in Spain, there is a 1st team squad cap of 25! This is so that the top teams, e.g. Barca and Real can't buy up all the best players and continue to dominate with no hope for other teams. Instead, any young players coming through that are preferred sees the older players sold off to make room, which in turn benefits another club and so on and so forth. Currently, in SM this rarely happens because managers want extortionate prices for players they no longer require! This is just pure greed, in my opinion! The idea of a game like this is to have competition (if I wanted to play by myself I would go play offline manager sims, like FM, or CM), so to increase competition the rules need to be fairer....and I don't think anyone can disagree (unless you have a team with a squad of 100+ players)!!

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Re: Players hogging and collecting

Player hogging isn't a problem in this game. The main things that kill gameworlds are bad managers who mess up teams with making bad decisions in the transfer market, get bored and quit a day, days or a week later n move on n do it all again. Why would you want to go to a ruined team in a gameworld when you can go get a fresh 1 or better 1 in another? Cheating is another problem that can devastate a gameworld. Happens too frequently in standard gameworlds for my liking so tend to avoid them like the plague these days!

Who cares if a manager who wants to stick around n make a go of a gameworld and signs a 100 free agents who nobody else is buying? Law of averages says you'll get a few gems. Seeing as this game isn't about making players good, you as a football fanatic have to play a waiting game whilst you wait and see if players come good in real life. So you gota sit an watch that player grow in ratings as they progress in real life (sometimes years). Most wont amount to much, decide when's best to sell off that player or if you believe they will make your 1st team keep for the future n have 1 over your rivals.

Hate to say it but that's football. All the best teams sign loads of youth players. Some teams have squads of teams in every age category below under 21 level, they chop and change until they find a few diamonds. So in effect your barca's n man utds of this world will hog the best youths of world football so they stay ahead of their rivals.

On the subject of teams who sign players who may never play for them just look at Benfica or udinese who frequently gamble in the transfer market, they just loan players out and watch to see if they progress to a good standard. If not they just get the chop.

So... No to small squad caps. Some teams I have 100+ players some 30. Who cares, Aint cheating, ain't ruining gameworlds, never leave a team in bad shape (IF i leave) and never play in leagues with less that 20% human managed so ain't ruining anybody else's fun.

If a small squad cap got imposed I'd probably leave my coveted gameworlds along with a lot of the other managers.

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Re: Players hogging and collecting

Do SM help or hinder when it comes to how many players a manager might need when fighting on more than one front?

Sat 26 Jan Division 1 [A] - Newcastle United

Mon 28 Jan SMFA Champions Cup Semi Final Leg 1 [H] Manchester City

Wed 30 Jan Division 1 [H] - Wigan Athletic

Fri 1 Feb English Cup Semi Final [A] - Newcastle United

Sat 2 Feb Division 1 [A] - Manchester City

Sun 3 Feb SMFA Champions Cup Semi Final Leg 2 [A] Manchester City

Wed 6 Feb Division 1 [H] - Sunderland

Those of us that, as a matter of principle, like to play players when they are only properly fit, would need thirty odd players, all of similar standard, in order not to ruin our season!

Onwards and upwards,

Bobby

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Re: Players hogging and collecting

I agree that player hogging is some what of a problem and an irritant, but I can also see it would be unfair to managers that have spent years building up their teams, to have their squads ripped apart.

I would however be in favour of adding a squad cap of around 50/60 for all new games worlds that are to be created in future.

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Re: Players hogging and collecting

I posted this suggestion in another thread before, might as well post it here.

The introduction of 'Registration'.

At the start of the season, each manager has to register a max of 25 players for the league, 25 players for the cups, and 25 players for SMFA competitions. They can register the same 25 players for all competitions or use 25 different players for each, it's their choice.

That way, there is no 'cap' on the number of players a manager can buy (effectively the current 255 limit). This will be useful for managers who like to buy young future risers either for the money or for their potential. At the same time, the top rated player who are not registered will grow concerns every season or two and would be introduced to the transfer market again.

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Re: Players hogging and collecting

I posted this suggestion in another thread before' date=' might as well post it here.

The introduction of 'Registration'.

At the start of the season, each manager has to register a max of 25 players for the league, 25 players for the cups, and 25 players for SMFA competitions. They can register the same 25 players for all competitions or use 25 different players for each, it's their choice.

That way, there is no 'cap' on the number of players a manager can buy (effectively the current 255 limit). This will be useful for managers who like to buy young future risers either for the money or for their potential. At the same time, the top rated player who are not registered will grow concerns every season or two and would be introduced to the transfer market again.[/quote']

Wouldn't work in this game. Maybe in custom gameworlds where a transfer window is in place but generally for standard and gold worlds it would kill the transfer market. People couldn't transfer out registered players because it would hinder chances of winning prizes. Game becomes stale, people leave, Gameworld dies!

Also casual gamers are at a disadvantage, miss the registration day, get stuck with AI chosen squads, get stuck with players you don't want to use and end up with a team full of concerns resulting in players leaving!

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Re: Players hogging and collecting

I agree that player hogging is some what of a problem and an irritant' date=' but I can also see it would be unfair to managers that have spent years building up their teams, to have their squads ripped apart.

I would however be in favour of adding a squad cap of around 50/60 for all [b']new[/b] games worlds that are to be created in future.

Well I have a few issues with your statement.....

1) What do you mean building up a team? 99% of all managers on here don't scout talent, they buy any and every player they can get their hands on, in hopes of some hitting 89+ rating. If managers spent countless hours scouting all 255 players and are 100% sure that they will increase in rating, then i can agree with your statement. But it seems to me buying any player defeats the purpose of scouting. Any manager who buys for the sake of buying, in hopes to hit big, in my eyes is lucky as i would call it.

2) Reducing squad sizes will not hurt teams, it would make teams 100% better and more competitive. 100% better and more competitive in my eyes makes the game more enjoyable to play, and worlds will be filled up. Plus even if squad sizes reduced by 155 to 100, do you think that would hurt teams? No it wont, because you are still getting about 70 players that you can still profit off of, and the 155 players you sell will be ones you probably bought at 100k and sold for $1,000,000 making you 900k in profit.

3) Hoarding is due to lack of scouting. Like I said before, if SM were to introduce player AI, you could get some players rejecting your bid due to too many youth players or not enough playing time, which in turn reduces the chances of managers getting players, which reduces squad sizes. For example if Man United were to buy a youth player rated 80, the 80 rated player could say "Transfer will not happen due to too many youth players!" Then a team like Leicester could bid and transfer could say " Accepted". Could open up the transfer market this way and stop hoarding.

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Re: Players hogging and collecting

Well I have a few issues with your statement.....

1) What do you mean building up a team? 99% of all managers on here don't scout talent' date=' they buy any and every player they can get their hands on, in hopes of some hitting 89+ rating. If managers spent countless hours scouting all 255 players and are 100% sure that they will increase in rating, then i can agree with your statement. But it seems to me buying any player defeats the purpose of scouting. Any manager who buys for the sake of buying, in hopes to hit big, in my eyes is lucky as i would call it.

2) Reducing squad sizes will not hurt teams, it would make teams 100% better and more competitive. 100% better and more competitive in my eyes makes the game more enjoyable to play, and worlds will be filled up. Plus even if squad sizes reduced by 155 to 100, do you think that would hurt teams? No it wont, because you are still getting about 70 players that you can still profit off of, and the 155 players you sell will be ones you probably bought at 100k and sold for $1,000,000 making you 900k in profit.

3) Hoarding is due to lack of scouting. Like I said before, if SM were to introduce player AI, you could get some players rejecting your bid due to too many youth players or not enough playing time, which in turn reduces the chances of managers getting players, which reduces squad sizes. For example if Man United were to buy a youth player rated 80, the 80 rated player could say "Transfer will not happen due to too many youth players!" Then a team like Leicester could bid and transfer could say " Accepted". Could open up the transfer market this way and stop hoarding.[/quote']

1, let them then, if they sign such players there saving other managers the time and cash wasted on such players, why do you care if someone has 255 players that never count to anything :confused: :confused: don't worry that another manager has a useless squad/prospects, worry about getting the best for your team, if someone is buying out of hope then let them, you should be in a better posistion than them so why complain that there doing a bad job.. (they can have max 255 players from a database of over 50,000 anyway)

2, your 2nd point is again more utter nonsence, i've detailed this in previous posts on the squad size thread, if you wish you can quote me on this exact same issue in the squad size thread & argue why i'm wrong in my point of view.

this shows after you posted in the squad size thread that you never read my point of argument of exactly what you've just stated, every day someone makes the argument you just made (what you just stated is exactly TO A WORD what i've seen so many times and rebutted so many times), but i've shown that arguement having no validity, it's simly not true & not necessary.

If SM want to reduce significantly the squad cap of teams in new setups, then they will, but they never have after 6 years of people suggesting that they do.

if the squad cap of 255 players was such a hindrence to the playability of the game (and the gameworlds) then they surly would have done it by now, a squad cap of 255 players is not an issue in gold gameworlds, so it's hardly an issue in setups with 15/20 managers in them, an even more so less of an issue when the minority of clubs use up this allocation to begin with.

3, again your suggestion that a player refuses to go to (man united/a big club) because he's rated 80 stops managers from signing players they see as prospects.. (core part of the game) and never is SM goin to introduce such a rule.

I'm not trying to be a bawbag but if every single week in every single new thread the exact same arguments (practically word for word) that you make which i've rebutted from my previous posts time & again well this becomes somewhat monotonous & frustrating ;)

i might not mind so much but i only argued the points you made a few days/1/2weeks ago, it's not like it's something i did 1 year ago

I've no problim with you having a different opinion (maybe at the end of it i'm wrong) but you need to argue against my points of view over simply repeating that which others have already stated.

By repeating what has already been said (without directly responding to my point of view which i've already given) to me by others simply shows you have not read the thread(s) in question or simply refused to counter my argument.

If you feel the argument i made one or 2 weeks ago is completly rubbish then quote me on it and tell why it is.

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Re: Players hogging and collecting

Wouldn't work in this game. Maybe in custom gameworlds where a transfer window is in place but generally for standard and gold worlds it would kill the transfer market. People couldn't transfer out registered players because it would hinder chances of winning prizes. Game becomes stale' date=' people leave, Gameworld dies!

Also casual gamers are at a disadvantage, miss the registration day, get stuck with AI chosen squads, get stuck with players you don't want to use and end up with a team full of concerns resulting in players leaving![/quote']

I see your point, but I think that would mimic reality. Clubs are reluctant to make more than 1 or 2 transfers outside of Jan where there is a 1 month transfer window (and a new registration). If registration is introduced, it can be enforced after 25% of league games (5 turns in case of 20 club league - or 1 turn in 8 club leagues) and again at mid season for say double that (10 turns or 2 turns). In that case, managers will not afraid to 'shuffle' their squads as they can modify registrations at mid season. I think that would actually refresh the transfer market during those 'grace' periods. The thing is the players who grow concerns are only the top rated players who are not playing, and a mid season registration amendment would be the window where their managers transfer them and fresh and 'content' players.

This is just off the top of my head really. It would need some tweaking of course. Also, there will always be the ability to disable that system in custom world for those who wish (just like you can do with the whole Concerns system).

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Re: Players hogging and collecting

I see your point' date=' but I think that would mimic reality. Clubs are reluctant to make more than 1 or 2 transfers outside of Jan where there is a 1 month transfer window (and a new registration). If registration is introduced, it can be enforced after 25% of league games (5 turns in case of 20 club league - or 1 turn in 8 club leagues) and again at mid season for say double that (10 turns or 2 turns). In that case, managers will not afraid to 'shuffle' their squads as they can modify registrations at mid season. I think that would actually refresh the transfer market during those 'grace' periods. The thing is the players who grow concerns are only the top rated players who are not playing, and a mid season registration amendment would be the window where their managers transfer them and fresh and 'content' players.

This is just off the top of my head really. It would need some tweaking of course. Also, there will always be the ability to disable that system in custom world for those who wish (just like you can do with the whole Concerns system).[/quote']

Also sounds a bit too complicated for a casual gamer to bother with. This is Basicly the next step up from a fantasy football game not football manager. By all means introduce these type of things in a custom world but leave the game the way it is and only let custom gameworld owners decide how they wish to play.

Squad caps, registering players etc just won't work in gold worlds where squads of 50+ are common site because of the demands of game schedules. Not unusual to end up with entire squads decimated by injuries either. I'm not sure anybody would like to play 5 games in 7 days with 12 players after injuries

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