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PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!


Glenn Hysén
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PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!  

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  1. 1.

    • I want SM to reintroduce the rating schedule
      258
    • I think the new random rating changes are better
      37


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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

Got to love this feed back from SM Community Manager on the "How about making a realistic game engine"

http://forum.soccermanager.com/showthread.php?t=130189

Hi all,

Lots of interesting posts here and, as I have mentioned a few times, please keep them coming as we do use the constructive ones as the basis of making improvements to the games.

We generally make a formal game announcement about big changes and features that are made but there are also a whole host of smaller tweaks and improvements which happen continually. Reviewing what our managers think is a big part of this process so please keep letting us know.

We can't answer every individual request given there are a lot more of you than there are of us, but we do read as much as we can - especially here on the development threads.

Eric

So in a nut shell, people can moan about the game engine and they get feed back from a SM developer, but this thread which voices peoples views/concerns and even has a poll just gets overlooked because it's within the miscellaneous part of the forum, so won't be read nor does are views really matter.

I hate to say it and wish it wasn't the case but do SM really have the out of sight, out of mind approach

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

Got to love this feed back from SM Community Manager on the "How about making a realistic game engine"

http://forum.soccermanager.com/showthread.php?t=130189

So in a nut shell' date=' people can moan about the game engine and they get feed back from a SM developer, but this thread which voices peoples views/concerns and even has a poll just gets overlooked because it's within the miscellaneous part of the forum, so won't be read nor does are views really matter.

I hate to say it and wish it wasn't the case but do SM really have the out of sight, out of mind approach[/quote']

I've sent the link to this thread to one of the devs and pretty much as expected I haven't got any feedback.

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

I thought Portugal would get a full review but after some days where we have seen a lot of updates for Porto, Benfica and Braga it seems like today has been totally random with a few reviews for a lot of different leagues.

What I don't understand is how the reviewers are gonna have a chance to keep track on all these random reviews.

If I have counted right todays review has been:

Ireland (Premier and first division mixed) - 17 updates

Russia (Premier League and FNL mixed) - 11 updates

Serbia Prva Liga - 6 updates

England (League 2 and conference mixed) - 4 updates

Sweden Allsvenskan - 1 update

Chile Primera B - 1 update

Portugal Primeira Liga - 1 update

France Ligue 2 - 1 update

Estonia Meistriliiga - 1 update

Lithuania Virsliga - 1 update

Deutschland Regionalliga - 1 update

Argentina Primera B - 1 update

Costa Rica Primera division - 1 update

Australia A-League - 1 update

Guatemala Liga Nacional - 1 update

That makes it 49 updates from 18 different leagues.

Where will this leave us a year from now if this continues day after day??

Maybe I'm a bit negative now but I see only chaos.

I can't see anyone being able to keep track of this no matter how structured you may be...

It seems obvious to me that it should be a reasonably equal timeframe between the reviews of players from the same league, otherwise you will have to depend on luck to get your player reviewed.

Or even worse! You'll have to go on SockerWiki and suggest a nickname or some other rubbish just to get a voting on SW and then hope for a rating review at the same time.

The league by league rating system isn't perfect but as far as I can see it's the best option to maintain some kind of structure.

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

Where will this leave us a year from now if this continues day after day??

Maybe I'm a bit negative now but I see only chaos.

I can't see anyone being able to keep track of this no matter how structured you may be...

It seems obvious to me that it should be a reasonably equal timeframe between the reviews of players from the same league' date=' otherwise you will have to depend on luck to get your player reviewed.

Or even worse! You'll have to go on SockerWiki and suggest a nickname or some other rubbish just to get a voting on SW and then hope for a rating review at the same time.

The league by league rating system isn't perfect but as far as I can see it's the best option to maintain some kind of structure.[/quote']

I share your concerns, so your not alone. But were thinking like this because of the lack of feedback from SM, with how they plan to keep the ratings upto date. I really dislike coming on here at the moment as my posts seem to be all negative.

SW has been a massive balls up for SM but they won't admit it. Letting people become more involved with the game by submitting info about players might sound like a good idea but it's resulted in the mess we see today and it's only going to get worse.

It also hasn't take long for people to find a bug in which they could get players reviewed twice and maybe have their rating increased, by just submitting a new position for that player. Top marks SW, that's great work

If SM are focusing on users to update SW when it comes to future ratings, then this game is only gonna take one direction.

It's gonna be focused on the top clubs and players, that's it. Why would people be bothered about giving any future ratings for players at Sheffield Wednesday or Dijon, It's just not going to happen! As people will just focus on the players they have within their team or what are on some top 100 list causing an in-balance at the other clubs and players in other leagues.

This is what the old ratings system protected. It stopped this random update of players within a team and leaving the rest. It gave a fair and balanced full review of the said leagues within a time-frame but more importantly you knew that leagues would get reviewed.

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

I'm NOT looking for the old system back, it was so terribly SLOW. You have to go back more than 3 years (appx) to see a speed of reviews that was anywhere NEAR ACCEPTABLE.

I had HOPED that the SW system would improve things, seeing other people were doing the work for SM :) BUT SW seems to be EVEN SLOWER, MUCH SLOWER :(:(:(

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

I've sent the link to this thread to one of the devs and pretty much as expected I haven't got any feedback.

Apparently SM will listen to people on the forum and change things. See this thread.

http://forum.soccermanager.com/showthread.php?t=149775&page=13

Makes the lack of communication all the more baffling. They made an announcement about yesterdays cosmetic changes before they were done, and then made changes to it on the same day because of posts on the forum.

If they can do this for cosmetic changes, why no communication or response on something as important as the ratings review system?

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

Gradually losing my will / enthusiasm to carry on playing SM :o After about 5 years I might add.

SM are declining / drifting further & further away, with bad decision after bad decision. SW has seized up while web design is tinkered with endlessly :(:(:(

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

Hello everyone :) All of our data is transferred over from the Soccer Wiki and it is their community that keeps it up to data. Due to their community being able to update any data at any time it is not practical to have a league schedule.

Ok thank u for reply, that's Not a problem for me, it's just the extreme slowness of SW & rating reviews? Any improvement to come & any idea when?

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

Hello everyone :) All of our data is transferred over from the Soccer Wiki and it is their community that keeps it up to data. Due to their community being able to update any data at any time it is not practical to have a league schedule.

Well personally i think that means from now on our community will only focus on the elite leagues and players within them. As the "community" will vote on changes on players they have within their teams which only affects the big clubs.

Might as well accept that only reviews from the top leagues and players on a top 100 list will happen from now on. The rest will be thrown into the abyss

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

Hello everyone :) All of our data is transferred over from the Soccer Wiki and it is their community that keeps it up to data. Due to their community being able to update any data at any time it is not practical to have a league schedule.

Some questions to you:

1. What decides which players that will get a review?

2. How are you gonna be able to keep track on when a player should get a review?

3. Does the outcome of this poll affect you in any way? I mean it's quite clear that most of us (your customers) want to go back to a league by league review.

4. Who decides the ratings? (SM or SW)

Looking forward to an answer!!

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

Well personally i think that means from now on our community will only focus on the elite leagues and players within them. As the "community" will vote on changes on players they have within their teams which only affects the big clubs.

Might as well accept that only reviews from the top leagues and players on a top 100 list will happen from now on. The rest will be thrown into the abyss

There is no reason, IF THEY SPEED UP, SM/SW can't improve & cover ALL players. Just about what resources they want to put to the task.

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

There is no reason' date=' IF THEY SPEED UP, SM/SW can't improve & cover ALL players. Just about what resources they want to put to the task.[/quote']

Well that's the big question which they fail to answer what resources SM/SW are using. If it's left to the community then the player reviews will only be focused towards players in the top leagues.

I've started selling the few players i have from the likes of Bulgaria, Australia and Japan as i just can't see them players getting updated. I'm just going to focus on buying elite players or youth stars, as from all the latest reviews these players will be updated, some have even been reviewed twice in the past 6 weeks.

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

Hello everyone :) All of our data is transferred over from the Soccer Wiki and it is their community that keeps it up to data. Due to their community being able to update any data at any time it is not practical to have a league schedule.

Firstly thank you Vicky for taking the time to look at this thread. I look forward to reading feedback from you regarding the communities concerns :)

When I first started playing SM four and a half years ago there was a summer/winter rating schedule in place for a database that was about 30-35k in size and although not perfect it ran pretty well if a little slow at times but was still the fastest Ive seen reviews done in my time playing this game.

Fast forward to today and the schedule has been replaced by SW and an database of 50k exists yet the speed in which reviews are being done is a lot slower than it used to be.

With this in mind I would like to ask if you could give us some feedback on the speed of the reviewing system and how SM hopes to keep its ever expanding database reasonably up to date.

Thanks

Monkeyshuffl

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

Hello everyone :) All of our data is transferred over from the Soccer Wiki and it is their community that keeps it up to data. Due to their community being able to update any data at any time it is not practical to have a league schedule.

In what way does/should SW make the reviews better?

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

I think the new rating system is better. It is more adequate, and it is more real. Players should be reviewed when they deserve to be reviewed, and not with a specific date. Every thing beside from not been able to assign players the number that you please them to have, soccer manger is great, and the best online game out there. How can you guys expect more, if it is a free game? So my best advice is, enjoy sm while you can, because I know if they start charging to use it, not even half of you guys will be here.

Love you SoccerManager.

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

In what way does/should SW make the reviews better?

It doesn't make it any better & from the sound of it SM will stick with SW thru thick & thin.

BUT' date=' SW for me has the POTENTIAL to improve the rating reviews. Consider the principle of maybe ignoring every player that DOESN'T require a rating review. That would make the task smaller. IF they can speed up SW so that within say 6 months every player that requires a medium to large increase gets it, then half the task might be done. That's where it gets complicated as u still have say +1 risers to do & ALL the droppers.

This is [b']FAR, FAR [/b]from perfect but better than we've had to put up with. It has the advantage of "The Community via SW" relieving pressure on SM, to get some "hard" work done, checking SW & changing players (actually don't know why this should be so hard for SM :confused:)

Bottom line, that's the possiblity BUT UP TO NOW SW has FAILED to achieve anything much, purely because they are far too SLOW. Improving that, is the key. Still not great but better than what we have.

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

If soccerwiki is used as the main mechanism of player ratings changes, is there a danger that the focus will shift from leagues to individual players (as most people have favorite players) ratings change, and since it maybe easier to give/gain support for RVP a +2/3/4 rating upgrade than most of the other Man U squad that players ratings maybe become disproportionate to the team/league ?

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

If soccerwiki is used as the main mechanism of player ratings changes' date=' is there a danger that the focus will shift from leagues to individual players (as most people have favorite players) ratings change, and since it maybe easier to give/gain support for RVP a +2/3/4 rating upgrade than most of the other Man U squad that players ratings maybe become disproportionate to the team/league ?[/quote']

You are right in a way Wraith & it is already happening for some time now that individual players are being selected by SW. BUT Leagues are being done as well but extremely slowly, unfortunately.

Your other concern that RVP (or similar) will get a +2/3/4 increase won't happen as players at this high a level don't jump by 3 or 4's & SM decide this even after it's voted on by us. So someone giving a large increase to someone who didn't deserve it, would/should just be ignored.

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

You are right in a way Wraith & it is already happening for some time now that individual players are being selected by SW. BUT Leagues are being done as well but extremely slowly' date=' unfortunately.

Your other concern that RVP (or similar) will get a +2/3/4 increase won't happen as players at this high a level don't jump by 3 or 4's & SM decide this even after it's voted on by us. So someone giving a large increase to someone who didn't deserve it, would/should just be ignored.[/quote']

Well any lag between player and teams/leagues may tend to bend reality a bit making the players rating "unhinged" from real life performances. The RVP scenario was an example -as if enough Man U fans decide it's deserving it may well happen just like Arsenal fans may decide Wilshere needs a raise or Chelsea's Lampard etc.

Also if teams are being done, albeit slowly who does them? There aren't many who will research and rate second/third string players and chances are they will get fewer votes than the top stars.

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

Well any lag between player and teams/leagues may tend to bend reality a bit making the players rating "unhinged" from real life performances. The RVP scenario was an example -as if enough Man U fans decide it's deserving it may well happen just like Arsenal fans may decide Wilshere needs a raise or Chelsea's Lampard etc.

Also if teams are being done' date=' albeit slowly who does them? There aren't many who will research and rate second/third string players and chances are they will get fewer votes than the top stars.[/quote']

Not sure how many votes a player gets, affects how soon a player gets re-rated. Tho i have heard it said by one forumer it does. Probably JMH who posts on here, is your man for that question, as he is an admin on SW :)

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

Hello everyone :) All of our data is transferred over from the Soccer Wiki and it is their community that keeps it up to data. Due to their community being able to update any data at any time it is not practical to have a league schedule.

Why have the links to soccer wiki been removed in the latest update to the layout of SM? If soccer wiki is the only way that the data is kept up to date shouldn't you be helping to promote it within the game?

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  • 1 month later...

Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

Hello everyone :) All of our data is transferred over from the Soccer Wiki and it is their community that keeps it up to data. Due to their community being able to update any data at any time it is not practical to have a league schedule.

I think it's not about practicality, it's about what's good for the reputation of SM compared to the competition isn't it? If someone joins the game now and finds Gotze already part of Bayern's team, then they won't really trust the integrity of match results, will they? Especially when they are still in the learning phase and will probably suffer some seemingly unexplainable match results.

The real question here is, does SM control SW?

If so, then SM are the ones who should have the final approval on changes, taking the community votes as guide only.

If not, then SW has the power to completely ruin the SM experience with unrealistic, untimely, and biased updates by any 'organized' batch of users.

There needs to be a pre-approved and scheduled approach to updating the top 5 European leagues as they are the core of this game (or any football game for that matter). They are the main attraction of the game and I'm sure they draw the highest number of users. Having a set number of leagues (the top divisions in Spain, Germany, England, Italy, and France) would make planning for scheduled updates a practical possibility. The community would then be responsible for all other league updates, which even if malicious, would not hugely affect the integrity of the game.

I would really appreciate it if one of the Devs/Admins/Managers of SM gave us a brief explanation on how the SM/SW model works highlighting how the update approval system works.

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