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PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!


Glenn Hysén
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PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!  

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  1. 1.

    • I want SM to reintroduce the rating schedule
      258
    • I think the new random rating changes are better
      37


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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

SM could revert to the old review system, and use SW as either the communitys tuppence on who gets a rise, or have it as an appeal system. Whereby for a week after the German changes if you think Gotze should be 95, you can start a vote, and if so many people vote, then SM will reconsider the rating, and if they feel the appeal is justified, they change it

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

I think the old system was better however...they could improve on this...

Example...say Italian Ratings are 3 months away but Inter Milan have a player that is playing exceptional...and to wait for 3 months to reflect his ability would not be accurate...then raise his rating...regardless of schedule.

This could be applied to palyers that have shown unexpected exceptional preformances like ;

http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=58389

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

I think the old system was better however...they could improve on this...

Example...say Italian Ratings are 3 months away but Inter Milan have a player that is playing exceptional...and to wait for 3 months to reflect his ability would not be accurate...then raise his rating...regardless of schedule.

This could be applied to palyers that have shown unexpected exceptional preformances like ;

Agree with this. If you look back in this thread there is a lot of comments about how the old system wasn't perfect and needed improving. SW added to the old system would have been great as suggested by this post.

However alot of the misgivings about SW that were posted early in this thread appear to be coming true.

Still baffled by the lack of communication from SM how it will work going forward and how its an improvement.

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

Agree with this. If you look back in this thread there is a lot of comments about how the old system wasn't perfect and needed improving...

One of the devs is a personal friend and drinking buddy of mine and when he told me about SM when it was being developed and that ratings would reflect real life rather than a computer simulated training schedule...I thought the idea was innovative!

However' date=' that system [b']HAS TO[/b] be kept up to date otherwise the whole game loses it's integrity.

Sadly, this is what is happening...the game is becoming stale.

Back in the day...ratings happened faster and quite often 2-3 would be added or removed, so the ratings had more of an impact.

GET IT SORETED LADS PLEASE!

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

Definitely prefer a fixed schedule.. it is more consistent and less bias. What if some guy perform like mad for 2-3 weeks, then he gets a rise? How will someone grade a drop then? Injury? No games?

A review of 3-4 times a season with fixed timing is the way, e.g. 10th epl game, 20th epl game, 30th epl game, and before season starts(31July).

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

So HIGUAÍN get a +1 to 95!

The real surprise here (aside from the unrealistic increase) is that this is only in-game for SM and it is not on SW!

This is a whole new element to the equation. What I understood is that SW is where the ratings are reviewed by the community (with the 'Propose New Rating' link for each player) and then the exact raise/drop is decided and approved by SM and then reflected in-game.

Now we see an example of an SM exclusive update that is not even reflected on SW!?

Again, I'm asking someone who represents SM/SW to officially explain how the system works. It's not about rating schedules anymore, it is much more fundamental. This is the core of the game.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

Rating schedule was something that made me look forward to logging in each day knowing that my players would be rated but now i don't even look at the player ratings or new players page. :(

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

;2589318']its a thing of the past. it didnt work. besides so many players that would never have got reviewed are getting done so now.

Neither does the current system and a lot of players that would and should have been reviewed under the old system by now are being neglected.

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

Neither does the current system and a lot of players that would and should have been reviewed under the old system by now are being neglected.

but you must say its improved/improving? as i posted elsewhere, currently ongoing is Egypt, Ecuador, South Africa, Scotland Div3, League 2, Germany Regionaliga & Portgual Div2 ??? its all there to be seen on the votes page. of course it wont be live tomorrow but its whats going to be occuring over the next week or so.

today has seen a selection of Ligue 2 (Monaco, Nantes, Guingamp)

not gonna go back into the debate again, but the old way was a flop. Yes you got a whole league up to date but then never touched again for up to 3 years.

id rather see players who needed a major ratings change done all be it randomly, than sit and wait for his league to be reviewed. You still have a case atm with players such as Kolasinac, Alberto Moreno, Rudiger etc low rated but starting for high level clubs but the chance of them rising and having a respectable rating to use in SM as a first team player greatly increased rather than waiting 6 months for the Bundesliga or La Liga to be reviewed in full.

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

;2590044']but you must say its improved/improving?

Compared to what was happening around December/January time when you were saying give it more time - Yes.

BUT..... lets put that into context that the player rating reviews where nearly at a halt with days and days on end passing with no rating reviews. It wasn't hard to improve on that and I dread to think what it might descend to again come the next European transfer window.

;2590044']as i posted elsewhere' date=' currently ongoing is Egypt, Ecuador, South Africa, Scotland Div3, League 2, Germany Regionaliga & Portgual Div2 ??? its all there to be seen on the votes page. of course it wont be live tomorrow but its whats going to be occuring over the next week or so.

today has seen a selection of Ligue 2 (Monaco, Nantes, Guingamp)

not gonna go back into the debate again, but the old way was a flop. Yes you got a whole league up to date but then never touched again for up to 3 years.

id rather see players who needed a major ratings change done all be it randomly, than sit and wait for his league to be reviewed. You still have a case atm with players such as Kolasinac, Alberto Moreno, Rudiger etc low rated but starting for high level clubs but the chance of them rising and having a respectable rating to use in SM as a first team player greatly increased rather than waiting 6 months for the Bundesliga or La Liga to be reviewed in full.[/quote']

You could list all the countries in the world as being ongoing which under SW I suppose they technically are but it does'nt change the fact...

Some players are getting rises in teams when their deserving teammates arnt.

Some players are getting multiple reviews at the expense of others getting any review.

The general speed of reviewing is still too slow and has no chance of keeping up with the size of the database especially with the amount of new players being constantly added to it. This admittedly was the old systems failing too but how has the SW system improved on this? It hasn't.

I could list other concerns with SW but really my problem with it revolves around these issues.

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

Compared to what was happening around December/January time when you were saying give it more time - Yes.

BUT..... lets put that into context that the player rating reviews where nearly at a halt with days and days on end passing with no rating reviews. It wasn't hard to improve on that and I dread to think what it might descend to again come the next European transfer window.

You could list all the countries in the world as being ongoing which under SW I suppose they technically are but it does'nt change the fact...

Some players are getting rises in teams when their deserving teammates arnt.

Some players are getting multiple reviews at the expense of others getting any review.

The general speed of reviewing is still too slow and has no chance of keeping up with the size of the database especially with the amount of new players being constantly added to it. This admittedly was the old systems failing too but how has the SW system improved on this? It hasn't.

I could list other concerns with SW but really my problem with it revolves around these issues.

Have to agree entirely with Monkeyshuffl, he sums it up well. SW a month or 2 ago was SlowWorking (Very) now its just SlightlyWorking (No more than) & we await the next "drought". I know the SW supporters don't like this being repeated, but when we had the Summer / Winter Schedules SM struggled to keep up with that but their efforts were still 100% better than SW is even NOW.

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

OR may be SM is cutting expenses by moving the review duties to the community itself.

Reviewing all players from around the world in a schedule is a task to be done by dozens of researchers. The last scheduled update was too slow probably because SM doesn't have the sufficient number of researchers for that task. The long term solution was to 'shift' that research duty to the community through SW. Now all they have to do is approve changes. No 'real' research is needed there since they can simply average out the votes (or use some other algorithm that takes into account reputation and location of voters).

This is in fact a brilliant idea as I believe in crowdsourcing (ie. wikipedia) but the transition is very rough. It would be much better if SM did the research and review for the top 5 leagues only and followed the SW model for all the rest. With time, they could build a good database of contributors (a la wikipedia) and can develop much accurate algorithms with that. The top 5 leagues are the most important in the world of football. They are most probably the main attraction for anyone to join an online football management game and they need to be the most accurate, comprehensive, and scheduled updates.

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

There hasn't been very many votes made lately but I think it's safe to say that even now after SW's improvements most people still seems to vote for a return of the "rating schedule" or the "league by league" review.

And I'm sorry to say that the SW improvements lately hasn't changed my point of view. I still find the old method better, not faster but better.

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

Can't say i've been 100% sold on SW as of yet. I know it's had it's problems and a rep system has been put in place to help filter out the rubbish posted on SW. But the flow of player changes has been slow to zero but the same group of youth players keep on rising every 6-8 weeks.

Were told how SW an better method as the old reviewing system was ran by select group of forumers who helped decide and more or less knew ratings before everyone else.

But the new method which is ran by dedicated SW users from this forum, is the way forward and won't turn into a clique and the problems of the old system slowly rise to the surface.

I guess it wouldn't help when them members even in their best intentions post updates on what leagues are being updated like below

  • England League 2
  • Scotland Division 3 - looks like the whole league
  • Egypt - several clubs over the last week and still being voted on
  • South Africa
  • Ecuador - Macara,Emelec
  • Portugal lower league clubs
  • Germany Lower league clubs Hallescher & Stuttgart Kickers

That was the problem with the old system. A select few having priori knowledge to any future updates and it still remains, it's not going to change. I see no difference between the old and the new method other the process hiding behind a mask called Soccerwiki. Letting people think they have say in the outcome but in fact it's illusion, they don't really have any power at all.

We then hear of people being banned from SW for posting data which is correct but goes against what some SW admin have previously decided. How is that ever going to build trust with users in a system where they are being overruled with decisions. It fine for them to do all the leg work tho, update profiles, club history's and photos.

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

IMO with the recent changes to wages, loans etc it adds more theory to why they removed said scheduling/ league by league reviews

SM Dev John's post

levelling the playing field for all

stops mass hoarding of risers if people had knowledge of upcoming changes enabling an easy way to generate funds

but i guess there will always be people who are unwilling to accept change ie SW, ultimately its becoming clear it will progress the databases ability to be more up to date than ever before using previous methods. It has come on leaps and bounds in the last 6 weeks - i can personally vouch for this as systems have been created, forums set up and communication lines established to get the things moving on.

Its still an ongoing project, every day glitches are found, questions raised, ideas bounced around but i can say im starting to get impressed by their direction they are taking...

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

Can't say i've been 100% sold on SW as of yet. I know it's had it's problems and a rep system has been put in place to help filter out the rubbish posted on SW. But the flow of player changes has been slow to zero but the same group of youth players keep on rising every 6-8 weeks.

Were told how SW an better method as the old reviewing system was ran by select group of forumers who helped decide and more or less knew ratings before everyone else.

But the new method which is ran by dedicated SW users from this forum' date=' is the way forward and won't turn into a clique and the problems of the old system slowly rise to the surface.

I guess it wouldn't help when them members even in their best intentions post updates on what leagues are being updated like below

[list']

[*]England League 2

[*]Scotland Division 3 - looks like the whole league

[*]Egypt - several clubs over the last week and still being voted on

[*]South Africa

[*]Ecuador - Macara,Emelec

[*]Portugal lower league clubs

[*]Germany Lower league clubs Hallescher & Stuttgart Kickers

That was the problem with the old system. A select few having priori knowledge to any future updates and it still remains, it's not going to change. I see no difference between the old and the new method other the process hiding behind a mask called Soccerwiki. Letting people think they have say in the outcome but in fact it's illusion, they don't really have any power at all.

We then hear of people being banned from SW for posting data which is correct but goes against what some SW admin have previously decided. How is that ever going to build trust with users in a system where they are being overruled with decisions. It fine for them to do all the leg work tho, update profiles, club history's and photos.

seriously? its all there for everyone to see! its public on the voting page........... so i should remain silent when all the nay-say carries on when people are oblivious to what is happening as they dont go and check.

plus we dont have any idea what the ratings will be.....we dont run it as you seem to think....

flow of player changes has been slow to zero? are you joking? try looking at the recent changes pages...people seem to assume the player ratings changes page on SM is the result of the previous days 'work' at SW....completely incorrect. Not every player requires a rating change you know.

one member banned. one. people complained about the number of positions chopping and changing and he unfortunately made a mistake. a handful of games at a unlisted position isnt enough to warrant a change. so we start taking action. Research Christian Clemens. 8 games in his whole career at AM. So you would perceive that as correct to be a AM??? Even then the sites where you can see said data isnt always 100% accurate, they may have the formation down wrong and label him an AM when he played as a winger as usual...

what is the solution then!?! do we let it run wild, or do we start to make firm decisions.....which are finalised by SW!

and his ban is up? 7 days...come on..

your clutching at straws here

in fact, why not put yourself forward to come help admin before you make all these ridiculous assumptions.

its posts like this make me wonder why on earth i bother to even try and act as a bridge between SM & SW as you get absolute garbage waffle such as this.......

surprised you havent actually labelled it another one of your conspiracy theories to be honest.

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

Why not explain the way players are rated in-game rather than it being told on the forums only. I remember when I first played way back in 2006 and I had no idea for a long while how players went up and down. Not until I went on the forums did I understand how things worked.

How about a way for game users to get a tutorial on the ways the rating changes work. This may help to level the playing field a bit. I imagine most won't be bothered, but a good amount probably will.

And to help level this playing field, and to help out many more people who do not use the forums, but will check out the tutorials; scheduled rating changes will be a great help. They may learn to look up leagues a few months beforehand, and they may learn to keep a few of these risers through a tutorial which explains that players getting plenty of minutes at big teams are worth keeping etc.

Hoarding will still go on anyways. Some people know which players are the best to buy, and can be kept regardless of knowing when ratings are done. The best risers will still be bought, and will be kept. And mostly those buying teams can keep them for ages, as it is wayyyy to easy to keep a team healthy with loads of players. Hoarders will still get the best players first, as that is what they do. They look for the best players getting lots of minutes in every decent league, and they grab them and keep them. And it does not matter when the changes are done. They do not need to know.

And it does not matter, as the current rating formula gets all the best risers a decent, or better, rise of some kind. And the hoarders know that. They don't care if it takes a couple of months, as they will be able to afford it. Next season they will see some guy in a top league get a few minutes or a start here and there, and will be snapped up. They don't need to know when they will be reviewed. They will be bought.

There are all those players left over which the hoarders do not care about. And those are the ones which those viewing the tutorials may thing are worth getting; but only if they have an idea when the leagues will be done. Those other people, who are a much larger section than those who know that soccerwiki will take care of them, may need to have a few of those guys rise, a +3 here or a +4 there. They will need these as they want to play the game hard, and they want to see those players which they know will rise through a tutorial get the same kind of recognition as the players who rise more.

And keep in mind that those hoarders do not buy all the risers. Just the ones which will be known to the forumers as the best to get. And they will be bought well before a rating is scheduled to happen. Others will want to make their team more profitable (and will probably be the guys/gals taking up smaller teams) buy changing their teams up as much as they can. That is the aspect of this game which is the most fun in my opinion. Making your team the best that you can through having an idea how the market, or the ratings work. We should be showing it to the masses, and keeping it out of the hands of those who know that certain players will get rated quicker through whatever popularity is working.

So offer the knowledge in the game of how this game works. Show how players rise at teams and this knowledge will rub off. Hoarders still get the best players, but give others the tools to challenge that fairly. And I think that a ratings schedule is fairer for most (by getting good risers left over by the few) and will be more likely to help their teams than those who hoover up the top players that will be rewarded the soonest by soccerwiki.

That is just a thought, as I do not buy that having no ratings schedule will be the best for all teams in a setup. I mean that it will no effect on the same teams buying the best risers. And there should be a way for more SM users get to know how the rising thing works. We should encourage more people to know what kind of player to buy. We need a ratings schedule.

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

good post Derm, id direct this to the improvement & developments section to regarding the first half regarding tutorials and explanations to newcomers, i do agree the communication in how the ratings all work and where it happens is somewhat lacking. But you run the risk of attempting to draw up guidelines into what constitutes a rise and how much a player will rise and that we all know is extremely difficult to judge.

but...

Ratings Schedules lasted long enough and was eventually a failure. They tried to maintain it but as leagues grew, more players, more hold ups, more delays - the time gaps got bigger, leagues got missed etc etc etc

It is not plausible to wait 2-3 years for certain leagues/players ratings to change, we are still bearing the brunt of that failure now as you can see many player too highly rated in lesser leagues that should of dropped along time ago for example recently Egypt. Lots of 85/84/83 getting knocked right down.

And works the other way too, you can look over 'archived' threads at reems of low rated rated players in leagues that have been waiting years to be re rated....Also picking up a player rated 75 who was a first teamer in say a EPL side and not getting a rise for nearly 6 months is ludicrous IMO. He would have no impact on your team when in real life he turned out week in week out.

also a schedule was an easy way to generate cash, as the Devs have come out (as i posted further up) and IMO possibly hint they want to stop this and get the 'being a challenge' essence back into the game. Also the rich got richer & the poor got poorer as the financially worse off cant compete with the cash rich in the mad scramble for risers when 'Outer Mongolia Division 1' was 'announced'..

I remember days on the forum when people would post up league risers and generate a dash to in essence waste cash in bidding wars and take away the 'advantage' of those who put time into the game and scouting. I felt was always a consensus that people didnt really like seeing said posts on the forum but there is nothing wrong with sharing knowledge to help others, IMO i just thought sometimes it was a little misleading to the new player or those looking for advice on the forum.

it resulted in a on going cycle of those 'in the know' getting ahead of the competition and creating IMO an unfair playing field. Now all managers can pick up players and all be within the same chance of them having a ratings change the very next day.

rating 'schedules' just don't work, as most leagues across the world run concurrently, there is a very little time frame to review all this data if you were doing it one league at a time.

the only way to maintain or increase the performance of that league by league method would ultimately be a drastic increase in staff/volunteers reviewing data daily, which no doubt would mean a greater cost for SM which would have to be passed on to the users increased fees

going forward i will imagine a number of the top leagues will still be systematically reviewed, but as the database is still along way off being completed it wont happen any time soon. And surely if the SW can eventually give every league/club/player a chance of being reviewed then that just has to be an improvement.

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Re: PLEASE SM - Reintroduce the rating schedule!!

Thanks for the quick reply JMH, I will get back to this with my reply tomorrow if I can. I have a few more ways of improving stuff to suit both ends; needless to say it boils down to a system where there is a set schedule and where the tidying up stuff gets done. I do think all parties can be satisfied here. :)

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