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Financial Fair Play 2- We Care About Money Only


Justin X
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Re: Financial Fair Play 2- We Care About Money Only

I also have a suggestion for this problem about wages and the fact that player's wage will increase on the same day that their rating increases. Because i think we all agree that this is gonna mess up everything and be very hard for the GW creators to monitor. So how about this?

Transfers are only allowed between two seasons. So that is once every 3 months. And the wage mass HAS to be under the allowed budget by the end of the last day of mercato. Then during the season, it does not matter if a player's rating increases and his increased wage brings the club over budget, but off course the team will have to change something in the next mercato because they will not be allowed to be overwage at the end of the next mercato.

Now positive points of this :

-Jus10 and Venk only have to check everyone's wage mass once per season

-There is no need to monitor team's wages during the season, because teams are not allowed to buy any players so only way they could increase their wage mass is if players raise but we just said we would 'ignore' their wage increase until the next season.

-Less of a pain in the ass for everyone. As rating increases are now done completely randomly and there is no way to predict when your player might raise, at least now everyone will break their arses during the interseason because of them players that rose, but once season start, they are safe until next mercato.

tl;dr: much simpler, less of a pain in the ass, same 'challenge level'

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Re: Financial Fair Play 2- We Care About Money Only

I also have a suggestion for this problem about wages and the fact that player's wage will increase on the same day that their rating increases. Because i think we all agree that this is gonna mess up everything and be very hard for the GW creators to monitor. So how about this?

Transfers are only allowed between two seasons. So that is once every 3 months. And the wage mass HAS to be under the allowed budget by the end of the last day of mercato. Then during the season' date=' it does not matter if a player's rating increases and his increased wage brings the club over budget, but off course the team will have to change something in the next mercato because they will not be allowed to be overwage at the end of the next mercato.

Now positive points of this :

-[u']Jus10[/u] and Venk only have to check everyone's wage mass once per season

-There is no need to monitor team's wages during the season, because teams are not allowed to buy any players so only way they could increase their wage mass is if players raise but we just said we would 'ignore' their wage increase until the next season.

-Less of a pain in the ass for everyone. As rating increases are now done completely randomly and there is no way to predict when your player might raise, at least now everyone will break their arses during the interseason because of them players that rose, but once season start, they are safe until next mercato.

tl;dr: much simpler, less of a pain in the ass, same 'challenge level'

lol....... I like your proposal but much more than that I liked my name's short form.:D:D:D Jus10.....lol....can't stop laughing:D:D:D

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Re: Financial Fair Play 2- We Care About Money Only

I also have a suggestion for this problem about wages and the fact that player's wage will increase on the same day that their rating increases. Because i think we all agree that this is gonna mess up everything and be very hard for the GW creators to monitor. So how about this?

Transfers are only allowed between two seasons. So that is once every 3 months. And the wage mass HAS to be under the allowed budget by the end of the last day of mercato. Then during the season' date=' it does not matter if a player's rating increases and his increased wage brings the club over budget, but off course the team will have to change something in the next mercato because they will not be allowed to be overwage at the end of the next mercato.

Now positive points of this :

-Jus10 and Venk only have to check everyone's wage mass once per season

-There is no need to monitor team's wages during the season, because teams are not allowed to buy any players so only way they could increase their wage mass is if players raise but we just said we would 'ignore' their wage increase until the next season.

-Less of a pain in the ass for everyone. As rating increases are now done completely randomly and there is no way to predict when your player might raise, at least now everyone will break their arses during the interseason because of them players that rose, but once season start, they are safe until next mercato.

tl;dr: much simpler, less of a pain in the ass, same 'challenge level'[/quote']

i want to have the right to buy and sell any player i want to, anytime as well, as long it is not affecting my wage budget limit

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Re: Financial Fair Play 2- We Care About Money Only

i want to have the right to buy and sell any player i want to' date=' anytime as well, as long it is not affecting my wage budget limit[/quote']

I think it just is a lot more realistic with transfer windows and it would make it much easier for the GW creators to monitor everyone.

Plus, seasons are so short... 10 weeks only, so there would be a 5 transfer windows per year, which is still a lot.

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Re: Financial Fair Play 2- We Care About Money Only

I will be honest, I am getting more and more concerned with this GW each day with all these comments. The solution is VERY simple. If you don't have the money, don't spend it! Don't assume you will sell your players, buy only after they have gone. Concerned about your wages, leave a safe margain in your allowance for if and when it happens.

It seems people have signed up for this FINANACIALY ORIENTATED GAMEWORLD and are now whining because it is a genuine challenge.

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Re: Financial Fair Play 2- We Care About Money Only

I will be honest' date=' I am getting more and more concerned with this GW each day with all these comments. The solution is VERY simple. If you don't have the money, don't spend it! Don't assume you will sell your players, buy only after they have gone. Concerned about your wages, leave a safe margain in your allowance for if and when it happens.

It seems people have signed up for this FINANACIALY ORIENTATED GAMEWORLD and are now whining because it is a genuine challenge.[/quote']

i agree with that. ;)

it was my point of view the whole time.

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Re: Financial Fair Play 2- We Care About Money Only

I will be honest' date=' I am getting more and more concerned with this GW each day with all these comments. The solution is VERY simple. If you don't have the money, don't spend it! Don't assume you will sell your players, buy only after they have gone. Concerned about your wages, leave a safe margain in your allowance for if and when it happens.

It seems people have signed up for this FINANACIALY ORIENTATED GAMEWORLD and are now whining because it is a genuine challenge.[/quote']

I'm sorry but it is not at all genuine.

In real life, players wage doesnt suddenly increase one morning because they played a series of good games. Here we have no way to predict anything, maybe 1 player will have his rating go up before the end of the season, maybe 15, we have no way to tell. In real life player's wage rise when they renegociate their contract. and they do that when they have concerned about being underpaid for their level. But this was already implemented. Player gets better, starts being concerned and after a while you renegociate the wage. That leaves you a margin to be prepared. Here we have nothing, one morning you can wake up and have 6 players who suddenly cost you more. And it's even more UNgenuine with that stupid wage gap that is between 89 and 90, each player getting only 1 small point increase has his wage increasing by a whole 50% (from 30k to 45k).

So no i'm sorry, but this GW was supposed to be closer to reality and it was, but with this SM addition, it is just nowhere even close to reality and makes it just dumb. (unless we check wages only once every 3 months as suggested, at least that gives everyone a margin and i don't even begin to understand why you'd be opposed to that?)

I also stringly disagree with your solution being "VERY SIMPLE". It is nothing but simple, GW owners will have to check all 20 teams on a weekly basis? My solution is way more simple and i doubt we can find any simpler (but if anyone has a great idea, i'm all ears)

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Re: Financial Fair Play 2- We Care About Money Only

I will be honest' date=' I am getting more and more concerned with this GW each day with all these comments. The solution is VERY simple. If you don't have the money, don't spend it! Don't assume you will sell your players, buy only after they have gone. Concerned about your wages, leave a safe margain in your allowance for if and when it happens.

It seems people have signed up for this FINANACIALY ORIENTATED GAMEWORLD and are now whining because it is a genuine challenge.[/quote']

Rubba I completely agree with you.

The problem is that everyone was spending money and buying players,

before they had sold players to get their finances in line with the rules.

So the disaster was already set into motion.

In the original FFP, the rule was:

Absolutely no one can buy players until they have sold players to get their finances in line with the rules.

But that didn't happen this time in FFP2

So we now have a bit of chaos.

In all honesty it's been a bit of a mess BUT it's nothing that can't be solved.

..............................................................................

I think we need a simple and easy way to solve this,

because things could get very messy and over complicated in a hurry.

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Re: Financial Fair Play 2- We Care About Money Only

OK, so to reply to those responses.

I'm sorry but it is not at all genuine.

It is a 20 team world league that includes Stoke City signing Eden Hazard and St Etienne buying young players to manipulate their wage bill and hope that one of these people they have bought might crack it big. These would never happen either and that is because it is a game. Everyone knows Soccer Manager has 'realism' issues so that arguement is complete nonsense.

Also it seems you are saying youngsters who show talent don't get wage rises or new contracts? I would say that is VERY realistic. Look at the rush with Raheem Sterling this season when he showed form for just 10 games to desperatley increse his wages almost 10 fold!

Fact: Everyone was told what their budget was up front.

Fact: Everyone was told what their restrictions were

You can't argue with these points. The issue is managers, yet again, going for the ultra 'I need world superstars right here, right now' rather than forward planning or factoring in anything beyond the immediate here and now. That is what the other game worlds are for (and why I avoid a great many of them).

~ José Nowinho ~ - I agree but the fault is the MANAGERS, not the game world or it's set up and I see no manager taking responsibility for their own ignorance to the rules and THAT is what frustrates me.

Justin X - Indeed, cause and consequence. :)

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Re: Financial Fair Play 2- We Care About Money Only

mate i understand your frustration, but these 2 issues are not whinning, let me explain why:

1) the new update of SM is brand new. you can't say this is NOT a problem, because it changes the way the game is played. before you had weeks before contract renewal, time for planning, now you have not, so you must change your way of playing this GW. This is a problem, and it is new, noone could predict it. A solution will be found on this, that's the discussion about. but you can't say that this is not an issue and it shouldn't be discussed, come on..

2) the transfer/wage budget adjustment WAS going to be introduced on FFP1. It's not something new, but due to changes to FFP2, it was forgotten. It's completely justified to have adjustments of transfer and wage budget, on a FINANCIAL gw... Budget is one, and is up to managers how much they spend on transfers or wages, in reality and in games too.. One might want to give more on wages, and other not to have expensive players, but give more money on transfers. it's simple logic..

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Re: Financial Fair Play 2- We Care About Money Only

mate i understand your frustration' date=' but these 2 issues are not whinning, let me explain why:

1) the new update of SM is brand new. you can't say this is NOT a problem, because it changes the way the game is played. before you had weeks before contract renewal, time for planning, now you have not, so you must change your way of playing this GW. This is a problem, and it is new, noone could predict it. A solution will be found on this, that's the discussion about. but you can't say that this is not an issue and it shouldn't be discussed, come on..

2) the transfer/wage budget adjustment WAS going to be introduced on FFP1. It's not something new, but due to changes to FFP2, it was forgotten. It's completely justified to have adjustments of transfer and wage budget, on a FINANCIAL gw... Budget is one, and is up to managers how much they spend on transfers or wages, in reality and in games too.. One might want to give more on wages, and other not to have expensive players, but give more money on transfers. it's simple logic..[/quote']

OK, but to argue it is not fair because it is not realistic is B/S, can we agree on that front? At no point have I said it should not be discussed but I also say again, if you are working so close to the wind that 1 player raising 2-3 points screws up your entire finances, then you haven't really thought about things enough.

As for offsetting wage against transfer funds, it does sound like a good idea and could help out many BUT it is an after thought. It was NOT in the terms set up for this game world when it started so it is no excuse for the here and now.

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Re: Financial Fair Play 2- We Care About Money Only

RUBBAFISH

You have written an inaccurate comment about my team,

Saint-Ettine.

Manipulation of wage bills and finances,

is the very essence of what FFP is all about.

I have 4 players to sell.

I'm just waiting for their external bids to come in.

As soon as they are sold, my finances will be in perfect health.

The reason I bought a host of 70 and under rated players,

was to manipulate the average wage of my squad,

which has to be £14'500.

You are right about that.

And this is perfectly acceptable, perfectly within the rules.

I will admit that I have completely messed up my transfer by buying too many high rated, high wage players and not putting together a more balanced squad.

My mistake, I should've planned better.

But many of the low rated players I have bought are guaranteed risers.

How do I know this?

Because I know those players, have bought most of them in other GW's

and I do my research.

{I am a football nerd, it helps in this game but sometimes I spend way too much time searching for up and coming players to buy}

Of course a couple of those players are randoms that I picked up coz they were cheap. But not all them.

So I won't allow you to make that huge and inaccurate assumption.

Regardless of that.

Your overall point about this GW and mangers behaviour, myself included, is correct!

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Re: Financial Fair Play 2- We Care About Money Only

RUBBAFISH

You have written an inaccurate comment about my team' date='

Saint-Ettine.

Manipulation of wage bills and finances,

is the very essence of what FFP is all about.

I have 4 players to sell.

I'm just waiting for their external bids to come in.

As soon as they are sold, my finances will be in perfect health.

The reason I bought a host of 70 and under rated players,

was to manipulate the average wage of my squad,

which has to be £14'500.

You are right about that.

And this is perfectly acceptable, perfectly within the rules.

I will admit that I have completely messed up my transfer by buying too many high rated, high wage players and not putting together a more balanced squad.

My mistake, I should've planned better.

But many of the low rated players I have bought are guaranteed risers.

How do I know this?

Because I know those players, have bought most of them in other GW's

and I do my research.

{I am a football nerd, it helps in this game but sometimes I spend way too much time searching for up and coming players to buy}

Of course a couple of those players are randoms that I picked up coz they were cheap. But not all them.

So I won't allow you to make that huge and inaccurate assumption.

Regardless of that.

Your overall point about this GW and mangers behaviour, myself included, is correct![/quote']

Mate, I agree with you. It was a loop hole you took advantage of and I am not debating that, was a smart move on your part. Ethics are arguable but as you say, nothing in the rules against it. I am also a football 'statto' having a history of updating both Soccerwiki and being one of the data researchers for the FM games.

In regards to yourself, I also re-read and did mistype in my original message which I had corrected before this post. I did not mean to say 'random' and you are right, that was disrespectful and for that I apologise. I do kinda maintain you are hoping that break big time though because unless they are in the high 80's they will never break in to your first team. The 'rises' from 70 to whatever is purely financial, right? Buy cheap, sell high.

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Re: Financial Fair Play 2- We Care About Money Only

Mate' date=' I agree with you. It was a loop hole you took advantage of and I am not debating that, was a smart move on your part. Ethics are arguable but as you say, nothing in the rules against it. I am also a football 'statto' having a history of updating both Soccerwiki and being one of the data researchers for the FM games.

In regards to yourself, I also re-read and did mistype in my original message which I had corrected before this post. I did not mean to say 'random' and you are right, that was disrespectful and for that I apologise.[/quote']

You hurt my feelings dude.. LOL :D

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Re: Financial Fair Play 2- We Care About Money Only

OK' date=' but to argue it is not fair because it is not realistic is B/S, can we agree on that front? At no point have I said it should not be discussed but I also say again, if you are working so close to the wind that 1 player raising 2-3 points screws up your entire finances, then you haven't really thought about things enough.

[/quote']

Actually it shows that I have. And much more than some i think. I've gotten a wage bill that is 800 euros under my budget. That's called optimization. And it's actually the essence of this GW, value every dollar you got. Don't take it as "uncareful planning" because when i did that the SM rules were different, and if a player had an increase in rating i would have had at least 10 weeks before I had to increase his wage, similar to real life. Even Sterling's contract took several weeks before increasing, and if they had said no, what would have happened? he would have grown concerns but couldn't say anything, he's got a contract. I'm prefer my players developping concerns after a few weeks rather than their wage going up one morning without notice and making me overwage.

This apart, now that this rule is here, how are you supposed to do for next season? how big a margin should you have? you may have 1 player rise, you may have all of them rise. 6 players going from 89 to 90 is 90k more wages. And maybe you'll need even more margin. It's completely unplannable. I'm the type of guy to plan the finances of the club to the nearest 1k dollar, i don't like to leave the place for "chance", specially when it is so artificial.

And again I ask, if you are open to discussion as you said, sincerely, what part of my suggestion is even starting to bother you?:confused:

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Re: Financial Fair Play 2- We Care About Money Only

Actually it shows that I have. And much more than some i think. I've gotten a wage bill that is 800 euros under my budget. That's called optimization. And it's actually the essence of this GW' date=' value every dollar you got. Don't take it as "uncareful planning" because when i did that the SM rules were different, and if a player had an increase in rating i would have had at least 10 weeks before I had to increase his wage, similar to real life. Even Sterling's contract took several weeks before increasing, and if they had said no, what would have happened? he would have grown concerns but couldn't say anything, he's got a contract. I'm prefer my players developping concerns after a few weeks rather than their wage going up one morning without notice and making me overwage.

This apart, now that this rule is here, how are you supposed to do for next season? how big a margin should you have? you may have 1 player rise, you may have all of them rise. 6 players going from 89 to 90 is 90k more wages. And maybe you'll need even more margin. It's completely unplannable. I'm the type of guy to plan the finances of the club to the nearest 1k dollar, i don't like to leave the place for "chance", specially when it is so artificial.

And again I ask, if you are open to discussion as you said, sincerely, what part of my suggestion is even starting to bother you?:confused:[/quote']

Well for next season you get revised budgets and chaiman targets for a start, the same as in the last gameworld. And I say again, based on what you just said, you have a wage budget of £650k and you have total wages of £649,200, a financial window of just over 0.1% Spending every single penny you have is not optimization. As for Sterling as the example given, he could sit out the season and leave at the end of his contract (I don't believe that happens on this game, you have to release them) or gone on strike like Van Hoijdoonk. Also, how can you have issue with realism but don't want 'chance' factored in. That makes no sense!

You disagree, that's fine but I really don't see a fault in the gameworld as it is as I have explained in depth in past posts.

At the end of the day, it's a game based on a financial challenge. This is a financial challenge.

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Re: Financial Fair Play 2- We Care About Money Only

Well for next season you get revised budgets and chaiman targets for a start' date=' the same as in the last gameworld. And I say again, based on what you just said, you have a wage budget of £650k and you have total wages of £649,200, a financial window of just over 0.1% Spending every single penny you have is not optimization. [/quote']

Yes it is, with the way SM was working at the time, there was absolutely 0 risk in doing that. And in real life there would be no risk either, cus you would tell the player 'i understand you want an increase, but you'll have to wait next financial plan which will be revised in 1 to 9 weeks...

As for Sterling as the example given' date=' he could sit out the season and leave at the end of his contract (I don't believe that happens on this game, you have to release them) or gone on strike like Van Hoijdoonk. [/quote']

All that because he had to wait MAXIMUM 10 weeks before seeing his wage increased? sure buddy, sure...

Also' date=' how can you have issue with realism but don't want 'chance' factored in. That makes no sense! [/quote']

Please don't state dumb arguments when you know yourself they are dumb, because it will not help us move forward. You know very well "real life" chance has nothing to do with "SM creators have decided to review all your players in the same night" chance. This one is completely artificial, unpredictable, and should have no impact on our management.

At the end of the day' date=' it's a game based on a financial challenge. This is a financial challenge.[/quote']

No it is not. Not when player ratings are increased randomly, at anytime and their wages increased one morning without notice and without you having a say in it. But if you still don't get that...

And you STILL have not told me one good argument of why my suggestion was not good.

So rather than telling me that having an absurd +45,000 wage mass overnight because a 3 89 players raised to 90 because SM decided to raise them today is "natural chance" and part of financial fairplay purposes.... how about we actually have a constructive discussion and find a way to avoid the chaos that will happen in the near future with those completely chaotic wage changes that will fall on us.

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Re: Financial Fair Play 2- We Care About Money Only

1339359861-leftists-anarchists-protest-against-uefa-euro-2012--poznan_1267636.jpg

Football in Financial Problems

Following the changes that occured in the wage increase with rating increase of player coming in action, many managers across world went to protest against the rule. Especially the managers of clubs involved in the Financial Fair Play League as they were the most to get hit by this rule. Managers began protesting saying that they want the Budget accomodation option.

us-snow-5.jpg?w=320

The fans were too against these instant changes. As DC United fans were doomed seeing that their manager was absent from the last match. Spartak Moscow's manager Bel along with Atalanta manager Velvis & Jef United manager Weston have threatened FFP committee to leave the FFP League.

Michel-Platini-006.jpg

Finally, the FFP League manager & UEFA President Mitchel Platini came out of the dark and gave the letter to the managers involved in this league stating the situation & measures taken to improve them. Here is a copy of what it says:

uefa_fair_play_2004.jpg

NOTICE

Subject : Problems with Instant Increase in wages and 50% wages to be paid by owner club.

Dear Managers,

After doing a complete research and analysis of your views and the recent changes in the rules of SM, we have bought the points that may cause chaos in this GW. These are as follows:

1. The instant wages increase of players don't seem to affect when player is a low rated one but it affects when the player is a high rated one. Especially when the rating changes from 89 to 90 or from 90,91 to 92 or above. This can cause a overwaging of about 60-80k for 1 player. This is a huge effect that cannot be sorted out as everything is unpredictable in rating change.

2. After the rules changed, we now have a rule of the owner as well as the loaning club paying 50% of wages of a player. We have 22 players loaned out automatically at Real Sociedad and 12 players at Cruzeiro. Some other clubs also have 6-7 players out on loan. Due to this, R. Sociedad are now over wage budget by 200k & Cruzeiro by 170k. As this changes were not known before the making of the GW and came all of a sudden, it has created a very problematic situation for some managers.

So, for these 2 reasons, we've planned to introduce the Budget accomodation Option. By this, you can transfer money from your transfer budget to your wage budget. Though the final conversion rates are not provided as such, we want your views over what shall be the conversion rates.

Please note that this feature is available in the 1st season only and may be excluded in the coming seasons.

So this sums up saying that budget accomodation is added and managers are free to discuss over the conversion rates.

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