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Which is the best League in the World?


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Which is the best League in the World?  

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Re: Which is the best League in the World?

;2572271']when you start talking about CL/European matches' date=' you are going off topic for the 'best league'...if your comparing how sides far against each other for how 'good' a league is in 'one-off occasions, maybe you should think about how for example the EPL 15th placed side would get on v Bundesligas 15th placed team?

IMO, it breaks down like this:

for entertainment, excitement its the EPL hands down. The relegation battle is just as enthralling as the race for 4th....compared to Bundesliga - i mean just 2 relegation spots filled by more or les the same clubs all season...thats boring....and they 'playoff' for the 3rd spot :rolleyes:

for structure and the best for 'fans', hands down Bundesliga....it is the model how all leagues in the world should be organised and run.

Serie A does have a degree of excitement for the CL places, but Juve have romped it this season....but meh, im not that interested in Italian football..

The worst is definitely La Liga. I actually detest it, and how anyone can call it the best league is way off......gulf in clubs is unfair due to completely outrageous distribution of wealth and television money, plus banks & government being lax with Barca & Reals awful finances..........finally pretty sure back handers are rife with teams in the bottom half towards the back end of the season....Levante are under scrutiny for there shocking 2nd half of the season, and rumours of clubs bidding against each other to throw matches.....[/quote']

The fight for CL playoff place is hot in Spain, as is the relegation battle, so by those standards, you should love it.

For entertainment and excitement, it's Ligue 1, hands down. EPL title was decided in February, Ligue 1 champion is not even known yet. Still an immense battle for the last CL place, let alone the two EL spots. To me your way of thinking is revealed in the paragraph for Serie A: "meh, I'm not interested in non-English football." Of course, if you are not interested in it, it is not exciting to you. But that is no argument.

Btw, Serie A is otherwise interesting for a gambler, but the constant worry about match-fixing sort of spoils the taste. Allegedly same in Spain as well, and I can well believe. Their finances alone bring a taste of puke to my mouth, no matter how nice their passing game is (spoiler: it is not, that is a myth built by Spanish NT and Barcelona, other Spanish teams do not excel in passing game relatively to non-Spanish teams, although the statistics are twisted due to La Liga clubs having to play Real and Barcelona)

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Re: Which is the best League in the World?

The fight for CL playoff place is hot in Spain' date=' as is the relegation battle, so by those standards, you should love it.

For entertainment and excitement, it's Ligue 1, hands down. EPL title was decided in February, Ligue 1 champion is not even known yet. Still an immense battle for the last CL place, let alone the two EL spots. To me your way of thinking is revealed in the paragraph for Serie A: "meh, I'm not interested in non-English football." Of course, if you are not interested in it, it is not exciting [i']to you[/i]. But that is no argument.

Joey Barton is keeping Marseille in the league title race nearly single handedly. Fair play to him, but he is banned for calling Silva a sissy.

You dont see name calling like that in the Barclays Prem or Bundesliga.

A silly ban, which has cost Marseille the title.

If your talking about brute entertainment for a title race, then Eridivisee destroys every league in entertainment.

There's usually every season 5 tems in for the title with 5 games to go.

Entertainment:

1 - Bundesliga

2 - Eridivisee

3 - Barclays Prem

4 - Ligue 1

5 - Serie A

6 - La Liga

Quality

1 - Bundesliga

2 - Barclays Prem

3 - La Liga

4 - Ligue 1

5 - Eridivisee

6 - Serie A

^ Thats how the real life standings would be to majority of worldwide fans.

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Re: Which is the best League in the World?

Joey Barton is keeping Marseille in the league title race nearly single handedly. Fair play to him' date=' but he is banned for calling Silva a sissy.

You dont see name calling like that in the Barclays Prem or Bundesliga.

A silly ban, which has cost Marseille the title.

If your talking about brute entertainment for a title race, then Eridivisee destroys every league in entertainment.

There's usually every season 5 tems in for the title with 5 games to go.

Entertainment:

1 - Bundesliga

2 - Eridivisee

3 - Barclays Prem

4 - Ligue 1

5 - Serie A

6 - La Liga

Quality

1 - Bundesliga

2 - Barclays Prem

3 - La Liga

4 - Ligue 1

5 - Eridivisee

6 - Serie A

^ Thats how the real life standings would be to majority of worldwide fans.[/quote']

Its Eredivisie pal not Eridivisiee

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Re: Which is the best League in the World?

Barton isn't properly banned. It is a 2-match suspended ban

hmm, the ligue 1 title is just about hanging in the balance by a thread then.

Barton is the heart of 2013 Marseille, without him, they'd struggle to finish 5th!!

P.s

on the basis of this poll, i find it laughable not the 18-20 people have voted the Barclays Prem, because that's understandable with all the PR and marketing involved with it,

but that someone actually voted for Serie A!!! hahahaahhaha. Serie A????

Is someone majorly trolling there?? haha!!

Who enjoys sitting back and watching a predictable 1-0 match, that isnt even considered a well thought, top-defending chess-like match? Boring 1-0's?? Reallllly??

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Re: Which is the best League in the World?

hmm' date=' the ligue 1 title is just about hanging in the balance by a thread then.

Barton is the heart of 2013 Marseille, without him, they'd struggle to finish 5th!!

P.s

on the basis of this poll, i find it laughable not the 18-20 people have voted the Barclays Prem, because that's understandable with all the PR and marketing involved with it,

but that someone actually voted for Serie A!!! hahahaahhaha. Serie A????

Is someone majorly trolling there?? haha!!

Who enjoys sitting back and watching a predictable 1-0 match, that isnt even considered a well thought, top-defending chess-like match? Boring 1-0's?? Reallllly??[/quote']

Opinions Commander. They are all valid for their own reasons and should be respected; whether you agree with them or not.

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Re: Which is the best League in the World?

I'd tend to agree with you on the majority of points but the relegation remarks don't make a lot of sense.

Reading and QPR have occupied bottom 2 spots in EPL all season too.

Second-last Bundesliga team is 2 points away from safety' date=' 3rd last Bundesliga team is tied on points with the safe team.

Second-last EPL team is 10 points away from safety, 3rd-last EPL team is 3 points away from safety.[/quote']

kinda rushed my reply, but the relegation battle in EPL is being contested from 11th place down, Stoke can still be mathematically relegated..

Yes Reading & QPR have sat there all season, but the 3rd spot is the exciting battle, its automatic relegation, unlike Bundesliga which is a playoff so that club could still stay up...IMO more exciting in that perspective as many more clubs are involved it could go any number of ways...

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Re: Which is the best League in the World?

Last time I saw' date=' Schalke absolutely dominated Arsenal. City looked worse against Dortmund than half of the Bundesliga teams. You are much underrating the Bundesliga teams just because you don't know them.[/quote']

So you base your judgment on 2 games?

Evian won against Paris in french cup, they are definitely way stronger then?

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Re: Which is the best League in the World?

Premier league for.me. in terms of pure excitement, the transfers, rumours managers, just the complete package for me, but bundesliga is the only league I would out close to it.ignoring commanders bias, bundesliga, aside from tending to have Bayern as perennial favourites is very unpredictable in where teams end up (the el spots can throw real surprises) and the onething epl could definately learn from is the ticket prices and consequentailly fan support

The way bundelsiga is run financially and for the fans is am incredible achievement, and is what I think could lead of past the premier league in years to come (i believe it has suorpassed the greedy 2 horse race that is la liga)

I do think bundes'll iga shoukdnt have a playoff relegation spot, makes it a bit less calamitous to fin 16th but that's just opinion.

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Re: Which is the best League in the World?

¡La Liga!

Let's take a little ride on the European competition history train since the start of the millenium and see how La Liga clubs did:

2000 CL

Semifinal - Real Madrid, Valencia, and Barcelona.

Final - Real Madrid and Valencia.

Winner - Real Madrid.

2001 CL

Semifinal - Real Madrid and Valencia.

Final - Valencia.

2001 EL

Semifinal - Alavés and Barcelona.

Final - Alavés.

2002 CL

Semifinal - Real Madrid and Barcelona.

Final and Winner - Real Madrid.

2003 CL

Semifinal - Real Madrid.

2004 CL

Semifinal - Deportivo La Coruña.

2004 EL

Semifinal - Valencia and Villarreal.

Final and Winner - Valencia.

2006 CL

Semifinal - Barcelona and Villarreal.

Final and Winner - Barcelona.

2006 EL

Semifinal - Sevilla.

Final and Winner - Sevilla.

2007 EL

Semifinal - Sevilla, Espanyol, and Osasuna.

Final Sevilla and Espanyol.

Winner Sevilla.

2008 CL

Semifinal - Barcelona.

2009 CL

Semifinal - Barcelona.

Final and Winner - Barcelona.

2010 CL

Semifinal - Barcelona.

2010 EL

Semifinal - Atlético Madrid.

Final and Winner - Atlético Madrid.

2011 CL

Semifinal - Barcelona and Real Madrid.

Final and Winner - Barcelona.

2011 EL

Semifinal - Villarreal.

2012 CL

Semifinal - Real Madrid and Barcelona.

2012 EL

Semifinal - Atlético Madrid, Athletic Bilbao, and Valencia.

Final - Atlético Madrid and Athletic Bilbao.

Winner - Atlético Madrid.

2013 CL

Semifinal - Real Madrid and Barcelona.

So to provide the totals for La Liga clubs in European competitions since the year 2000:

Barcelona | 3 Winners - 3 Finals - 10 Semifinals

Real Madrid | 2 Winners - 2 Finals - 7 Semifinals

Atlético Madrid | 2 Winners - 2 Finals - 2 Semifianls

Sevilla | 2 Winners - 2 Finals - 2 Semifinals

Valencia | 1 Winner - 3 Finals - 4 Semifanls

Athletic Bilbao | 1 Final - 1 Semifinal

Espanyol | 1 Final - 1 Semifinal

Alavés | 1 Final - 1 Semifinal

Villarreal | 3 Semifinals

Osasuna | 1 Semifinal

Deportivo La Coruña | 1 Semifinal

Totals for La Liga:

11 Clubs | 10 Winners - 15 Finals - 33 Semifinals

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Re: Which is the best League in the World?

¡La Liga!

Let's take a little ride on the European competition history train since the start of the millenium and see how La Liga clubs did:

2000 CL

Semifinal - Real Madrid' date=' Valencia, and Barcelona.

Final - Real Madrid and Valencia.

Winner - Real Madrid.

2001 CL

Semifinal - Real Madrid and Valencia.

Final - Valencia.

2001 EL

Semifinal - Alavés and Barcelona.

Final - Alavés.

2002 CL

Semifinal - Real Madrid and Barcelona.

Final and Winner - Real Madrid.

2003 CL

Semifinal - Real Madrid.

2004 CL

Semifinal - Deportivo La Coruña.

2004 EL

Semifinal - Valencia and Villarreal.

Final and Winner - Valencia.

2006 CL

Semifinal - Barcelona and Villarreal.

Final and Winner - Barcelona.

2006 EL

Semifinal - Sevilla.

Final and Winner - Sevilla.

2007 EL

Semifinal - Sevilla, Espanyol, and Osasuna.

Final Sevilla and Espanyol.

Winner Sevilla.

2008 CL

Semifinal - Barcelona.

2009 CL

Semifinal - Barcelona.

Final and Winner - Barcelona.

2010 CL

Semifinal - Barcelona.

2010 EL

Semifinal - Atlético Madrid.

Final and Winner - Atlético Madrid.

2011 CL

Semifinal - Barcelona and Real Madrid.

Final and Winner - Barcelona.

2011 EL

Semifinal - Villarreal.

2012 CL

Semifinal - Real Madrid and Barcelona.

2012 EL

Semifinal - Atlético Madrid, Athletic Bilbao, and Valencia.

Final - Atlético Madrid and Athletic Bilbao.

Winner - Atlético Madrid.

2013 CL

Semifinal - Real Madrid and Barcelona.

[b']So to provide the totals for La Liga clubs in European competitions since the year 2000:[/b]

Barcelona | 3 Winners - 3 Finals - 10 Semifinals

Real Madrid | 2 Winners - 2 Finals - 7 Semifinals

Atlético Madrid | 2 Winners - 2 Finals - 2 Semifianls

Sevilla | 2 Winners - 2 Finals - 2 Semifinals

Valencia | 1 Winner - 3 Finals - 4 Semifanls

Athletic Bilbao | 1 Final - 1 Semifinal

Espanyol | 1 Final - 1 Semifinal

Alavés | 1 Final - 1 Semifinal

Villarreal | 3 Semifinals

Osasuna | 1 Semifinal

Deportivo La Coruña | 1 Semifinal

Totals for La Liga:

11 Clubs | 10 Winners - 15 Finals - 33 Semifinals

Why are you counting semi finals if the team won the competition? Your making it look like they have more...

You could quite easily do this with the EPL and have just a good a record. Off the top of my head Man United, Liverpool and Chelsea won the CL, aswell as all three reaching another final (If were doing it yor way thats an another 8 semi-finals?). Arsenal also reaching the final. Chelsea this season reach the EL final (Likely to win), Middlesbrough reached a EL final, theres probably more but thats what I know without looking on websites.

Anyway, these mean f all to how good a league is, dunno why people are confusing success in Europe to how good a LEAGUE is.

And stop living in the past. Today, La Liga is the arguably the worse league in Europe. Barca and Real Madrid thrash every team 3-0+ all the time and are top of the table by 20 odd points every season. The 2 teams are fantastic to watch, and are easily 2 of the best in the world, but that doesn't make the league the best. It is boring and very predictable and the TV revenue goes 50% to those 2 teams, which is so unfair. Match fixing scandal with Levante a few weeks ago too, and im sure they had some in the past too.

Also one of the worse supported leagues. Always see stadiums with empty seats and no atmosphere.

Idiots need to stop looking at European competitions to judge this....

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Re: Which is the best League in the World?

Why are you counting semi finals if the team won the competition? Your making it look like they have more...

You could quite easily do this with the EPL and have just a good a record. Off the top of my head Man United' date=' Liverpool and Chelsea won the CL, aswell as all three reaching another final (If were doing it yor way thats an another 8 semi-finals?). Arsenal also reaching the final. Chelsea this season reach the EL final (Likely to win), Middlesbrough reached a EL final, theres probably more but thats what I know without looking on websites.

Anyway, these mean f all to how good a league is, dunno why people are confusing success in Europe to how good a LEAGUE is.

And stop living in the past. Today, La Liga is the arguably the worse league in Europe. Barca and Real Madrid thrash every team 3-0+ all the time and are top of the table by 20 odd points every season. The 2 teams are fantastic to watch, and are easily 2 of the best in the world, but that doesn't make the league the best. It is boring and very predictable and the TV revenue goes 50% to those 2 teams, which is so unfair. Match fixing scandal with Levante a few weeks ago too, and im sure they had some in the past too.

Also one of the worse supported leagues. Always see stadiums with empty seats and no atmosphere.

Idiots need to stop looking at European competitions to judge this....[/quote']

Exactly I based mine on league. La ligas revenue is so biased towards the top 2, and as you say way too many blowouts 6-2 yesterday real Madrid v Malaga I believe. That's like city thrashing Liverpool 6-2. And it happening every week. No fun to follow, unless your watching Spanish teams in champions league as you mentioned.

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Re: Which is the best League in the World?

This thread (or at least the opening question) is both interesting and pointless at once.

Interesting as comparing different leagues and talking about their weaknesses and strengths often can open the mind. Pointless as it surely can't be said which one of the mentioned leagues is the best in the world purely because the mentioned leagues are all leagues on the highest level with only slight differences in quality.

Moreover it's simply impossible to discuss without defining the term "best league in the world". How can the best be measured?

  • Does the best mean, that in this league are playing the strongest teams? Or the strongest players? And how do we measure the strength of a team and player then?
  • Or does the best mean, that it's the wealthiest league with only few clubs being in debt? But how can this be exactly determined with clubs having rich owners or lots of subsidiaries that bear the main debts?
  • Or is the most entertaining league the best? Where most goals are scored and where it never can't be said which team will win the upcoming match?
  • It also might be that the most tactical skilled league can be called the best. Where teams don't score many goals due to having a collective tactical understanding of the game?
  • And last but not least the best could also be measured by the results in Europe by how the teams present in the Champions League and in the Europa League. However there you have the problem that only parts of a league take part (e.g. in the CL 4 teams for each league at most). And how can the results in the EL be rated if teams of the big leagues rather focus on the league than on the low-earning Europa League?

As you see it's not quite easy to discuss which league is the best. In my opinion it's a mixture of everything mentioned above (and probably of many more things that I've forgotten right now).

A league that claims to be the best league for sure needs strong teams and players - meaning teams that aren't only recognized as strong domestically but also being seen as strong abroad. Same applies for the players of course. Based on SM the best players of the world are playing in Spain right now (e.g. Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi, Iniesta). Of course I don't want to base my argumentation on SM ratings - we all know that they aren't the answer to everything - in fact based on these ratings we would normally have a Spanish CL final this year instead of a German one. But nevertheless it's in accord with my personal feeling: The best players are playing in Spain (respectively in Madrid and Barcelona) currently.

But in Spain you also find clubs with apparently having serious financial issues. Clubs that had spent more than they take in. Clubs that were affected by the financial crisis more than other clubs. Though I don't want to delve into this much more due to not having fundamental knowledge, Valencia directly comes in my mind as they sold quality players like Villa, David Silva and Mata in the past as they needed the money and therefore significantly weakened their squad.

In my opinion it's not a quality sign for a league when the clubs aren't financially solid and could collapse "any now and then".

The entertainment factor of a league is important for sure, too. It's not too good for a league if there is a team (or even two teams) that contrast(s) from the rest in a way that the team(s) will probably win most of their league games. It's far more entertaining if most matches are level - if you can't say which team will win the game (with both teams ideally scoring many goals). Having a tough fight for the title and having another tough fight in the relegation zone is very important for the entertainment of a league.

However in terms of title-fight-entertainment most of the top leagues haven't been too interesting this season (with Juventus, ManUtd, Bayern being already champions and Barcelona might becoming this weekend).

Viewing the scored goals in each league this season might also be interesting.

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unbenannt05u2e.jpg

Of course this can now also been interpreted in both ways - saying either that the Bundesliga/Primera Division are having the best attackers or the worst defenders/goalkeepers. Nevertheless it shows that you have seen most goals per game in those 2 leagues this season.

Finally the most used measure to compare 2 leagues are the results in the international competitions such as CL and EL. But again - as already mentioned before - it's not that easy. How should international achievements be compared? What does count as an achievement? Getting out of the group stage? Reaching the semi-finals? Winning the title? Only in the CL or also in the EL? Or just relying on the UEFA Country ranking that compares the leagues based on all results in Europe over the past 5 years? But are 5 years enough or too much? For example Inter won the CL in 2009 by beating Barcelona in the semis and Bayern in the final. Nowadays they might not even qualify for the EL over the league. It's hard to believe that a strength of a league can be compared by performances of a completely different playing team 4 years ago.

Still the country ranking is probably the fairest method to compare the leagues. And currently it shows that Spain is leading with England being second and Germany third - all leagues with similar quality. 4th is the Serie A slight behind and nearly on a par with the French Ligue 1 and the Portuguese league. I tend to agree with that but still I'm saying that all of those leagues are quite strong and most of the top teams of the leagues are able to beat each other on a good day.

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Re: Which is the best League in the World?

The fight for CL playoff place is hot in Spain' date=' as is the relegation battle, so by those standards, you should love it.

For entertainment and excitement, it's Ligue 1, hands down. EPL title was decided in February, [b']Ligue 1 champion is not even known yet. Still an immense battle for the last CL place, let alone the two EL spots.[/b] To me your way of thinking is revealed in the paragraph for Serie A: "meh, I'm not interested in non-English football." Of course, if you are not interested in it, it is not exciting to you. But that is no argument.

Btw, Serie A is otherwise interesting for a gambler, but the constant worry about match-fixing sort of spoils the taste. Allegedly same in Spain as well, and I can well believe. Their finances alone bring a taste of puke to my mouth, no matter how nice their passing game is (spoiler: it is not, that is a myth built by Spanish NT and Barcelona, other Spanish teams do not excel in passing game relatively to non-Spanish teams, although the statistics are twisted due to La Liga clubs having to play Real and Barcelona)

If you are going by this.. has to be the Portuguese First Division.

Two games to go and..

Porto is two points behind Benfica but play them tonight.. Benfica win and are champions, a draw and all be decided in the last game, Porto wins today and got one point in front but in the last game have to travel to Paços de Ferreira that is fighting for a CL place with Braga.. Paços plays today against one of the 6(!!!) teams that are trying to avoid relegation. While Braga plays against one of the 5 teams that is fighting for one Europa League spot as Guimarães is already qualified due to Portuguese Cup final.

So, 2 teams fighting to win the league, other 2 for the 3rd CL place, 5 fighting for an EL Place and 6 fighting for avoiding relegation. 15 out of 16 teams are fighting for something. Because if Vit. Guimarães wasn't already qualified for EL due to the cup final would be 16... There are gaps between each battle but each battle will be imense!

But apart from the top 8 our teams aren't great and of course we don't have the "best league in the world".. :)

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Re: Which is the best League in the World?

Why are you counting semi finals if the team won the competition? Your making it look like they have more...

You could quite easily do this with the EPL and have just a good a record. Off the top of my head Man United' date=' Liverpool and Chelsea won the CL, aswell as all three reaching another final (If were doing it yor way thats an another 8 semi-finals?). Arsenal also reaching the final. Chelsea this season reach the EL final (Likely to win), Middlesbrough reached a EL final, theres probably more but thats what I know without looking on websites.

Anyway, these mean f all to how good a league is, dunno why people are confusing success in Europe to how good a LEAGUE is.

And stop living in the past. Today, La Liga is the arguably the worse league in Europe. Barca and Real Madrid thrash every team 3-0+ all the time and are top of the table by 20 odd points every season. The 2 teams are fantastic to watch, and are easily 2 of the best in the world, but that doesn't make the league the best. It is boring and very predictable and the TV revenue goes 50% to those 2 teams, which is so unfair. Match fixing scandal with Levante a few weeks ago too, and im sure they had some in the past too.

Also one of the worse supported leagues. Always see stadiums with empty seats and no atmosphere.

Idiots need to stop looking at European competitions to judge this....[/quote']

You need to learn the difference between subjective and objective. Although English is not first language, I'll try to explain it to you.

Subjective: is simply a person's opinion. An editorial in a newspaper is the 'subjective' opinion of the editor in chief. Even if it is based on facts, it is still the interpretation of the facts in the person's opinion. My first line of the post was subjective as I stated my opinion based of some facts.

Objective: is simply the facts without personal bias or opinion. This is what a reporter should do in a newspaper report. Personal opinion should be put aside and only the facts stated. Some analysis could be added but in that case they have to represent all views and not just personal opinion. The list I provided is only facts of how Spanish clubs performed in their regional competitions since the year 2000.

Now, when comparing different leagues to select 1 that is 'better', the only way to do that is by using the competitions where representatives of those leagues meet head to head and see how the results went. These representatives are chosen to participate in the european competitions based on their annual performance in their domestic leagues. So each year the participates in the CL for example are the top teams in their leagues. So the success level of clubs from each league could then be counted in an objective way by listing semifinal appearances in european championships in an average period of time. To be in the top 4 in a european competition is the minimum I chose (someone could only chose the final only or even just winners but I think semifinals gives a better representation).

It is a different thing to just analyse how a league functions individually and then compare it with the analysis of another league. This is not an indication for who is 'better', it is just a comparisons of systems or set of rules or philosophy. It disregards the football aspect as there is no head to head comparison based on performance on the pitch. This is why it is breaked down to financial schemes, entertainment factor, fan appeal, etc. and it is impossible to factor football performance in this.

As timesle has indicated in his post, "how can the best be measured?" I chose to measure it according to head to head performance on the pitch. For me, this is the only available unbiased way to compare leagues. The footballing performance of the selected top clubs each year from each league on the pitch against each other. This is the only case where they actually go head to head. Any other analysis without direct interaction is simply 'subjective' opinion of its writer.

When Bayern and Dortmund eliminated Real Madrid and Barca this season, everybody started saying the Bundesliga is 'better'. News outlets started the hype of analysing the Bundesliga model only this year. Why? Because of performance on the pitch. Because of footballing reasons. Where? In the competition that gathers the best in europe and make them play against each other. The Bundesliga was very competitive and exciting the past 2 seasons but it didn't create such a big hype (compared to what we see daily now). Why? Because on the pitch in the past european competitions, they were not as impressive as this year. It all comes down to football performance on the pitch. This is the only objective way to compare league strength.

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Re: Which is the best League in the World?

This thread (or at least the opening question) is both interesting and pointless at once.

Interesting as comparing different leagues and talking about their weaknesses and strengths often can open the mind. Pointless as it surely can't be said which one of the mentioned leagues is the best in the world purely because the mentioned leagues are all leagues on the highest level with only slight differences in quality.

Moreover it's simply impossible to discuss without defining the term "best league in the world". How can the best be measured?

  • Does the best mean' date=' that in this league are playing the strongest teams? Or the strongest players? And how do we measure the strength of a team and player then?
    [*']Or does the best mean, that it's the wealthiest league with only few colubs being in debt? But how can this be exactly determined with clubs having rich owners or lots of subsidiaries that bear the main debts?
  • Or is the most entertaining league the best? Where most goals are scored and where it never can't be said which team will win the upcoming match?
  • It also might be that the most tactical skilled league can be called the best. Where teams don't score many goals due to having a collective tactical understanding of the game?
  • And last but not least the best could also be measured by the results in Europe by how the teams present in the Champions League and in the Europa League. However there you have the problem that only parts of a league take part (e.g. in the CL 4 teams for each league at most). And how can the results in the EL be rated if teams of the big leagues rather focus on the league than on the low-earning Europa League?

Timelse I love you insight easkit one of the best forumers about. Honestly o beige the premier league to be the best, but I'm basing best simply on the scale of what I enjoy watching the most. Now I maybe bisaed, as an English speaking Australian, epl is the national league of aus (sad but true) but in terms of pure excitment and watchability (which is what I'm caling beat) is epl. If your talking in a financial and business sense, Bindi hands down, Germany is all about fianciall sensibility and the supporters are number 1. In terms or European success, bank account abns pure talent, sure Spain (at meat the big 2) are the leaders. Unfortunai I can't really put a case forward for France or Italy, but opp Portugal always punches above its weight and. As your stats show is highly entertaining in terms of goals. Best is a head term to define, but for me, beat is the first one you wanna turn the televison on to ot Google the news.on, and for me at least that's the English premier league.

As you see it's not quite easy to discuss which league is the best. In my opinion it's a mixture of everything mentioned above (and probably of many more things that I've forgotten right now).

A league that claims to be the best league for sure needs strong teams and players - meaning teams that aren't only recognized as strong domestically but also being seen as strong abroad. Same applies for the players of course. Based on SM the best players of the world are playing in Spain right now (e.g. Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi, Iniesta). Of course I don't want to base my argumentation on SM ratings - we all know that they aren't the answer to everything - in fact based on these ratings we would normally have a Spanish CL final this year instead of a German one. But nevertheless it's in accord with my personal feeling: The best players are playing in Spain (respectively in Madrid and Barcelona) currently.

But in Spain you also find clubs with apparently having serious financial issues. Clubs that had spent more than they take in. Clubs that were affected by the financial crisis more than other clubs. Though I don't want to delve into this much more due to not having fundamental knowledge, Valencia directly comes in my mind as they sold quality players like Villa, David Silva and Mata in the past as they needed the money and therefore significantly weakened their squad.

In my opinion it's not a quality sign for a league when the clubs aren't financially solid and could collapse "any now and then".

The entertainment factor of a league is important for sure, too. It's not too good for a league if there is a team (or even two teams) that contrast(s) from the rest in a way that the team(s) will probably win most of their league games. It's far more entertaining if most matches are level - if you can't say which team will win the game (with both teams ideally scoring many goals). Having a tough fight for the title and having another tough fight in the relegation zone is very important for the entertainment of a league.

However in terms of titleure -fight-entertainment most of the top leagues haven't been too interesting this season (with Juventus, ManUtd, Bayern being already champions and Barcelona might becoming this weekend).

Viewing the scored goals in each league this season might also be interesting.

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Of course this can now also been interpreted in both ways - saying either that the Bundesliga/Primera Division are having the best attackers or the worst defenders/goalkeepers. Nevertheless it shows that you have seen most goals per game in those 2 leagues this season.

Finally the most used measure to compare 2 leagues are the results in the international competitions such as CL and EL. But again - as already mentioned before - it's not that easy. How should international achievements be compared? What does count as an achievement? Getting out of the group stage? Reaching the semi-finals? Winning the title? Only in the CL or also in the EL? Or just relying on the UEFA Country ranking that compares the leagues based on all results in Europe over the past 5 years? But are 5 years enough or too much? For example Inter won the CL in 2009 by beating Barcelona in the semis and Bayern in the final. Nowadays they might not even qualify for the EL over the league. It's hard to believe that a strength of a league can be compared by performances of a completely different playing team 4 years ago.

Still the country ranking is probably the fairest method to compare the leagues. And currently it shows that Spain is leading with England being second and Germany third - all leagues with similar quality. 4th is the Serie A slight behind and nearly on a par with the French Ligue 1 and the Portuguese league. I tend to agree with that but still I'm saying that all of those leagues are quite strong and most of the top teams of the lea

gues are able to beat each other on a good day.

I've wrote my pos in the middle of this, drunk and on a broken mobile so forgive me

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Re: Which is the best League in the World?

Finally the most used measure to compare 2 leagues are the results in the international competitions such as CL and EL. But again - as already mentioned before - it's not that easy (1). How should international achievements be compared? (2) What does count as an achievement? Getting out of the group stage? Reaching the semi-finals? Winning the title? (3) Only in the CL or also in the EL? (4) Or just relying on the UEFA Country ranking that compares the leagues based on all results in Europe over the past 5 years? (5) But are 5 years enough or too much? (6) For example Inter won the CL in 2009 by beating Barcelona in the semis and Bayern in the final. Nowadays they might not even qualify for the EL over the league. It's hard to believe that a strength of a league can be compared by performances of a completely different playing team 4 years ago.

Still the country ranking is probably the fairest method to compare the leagues. And currently it shows that Spain is leading with England being second and Germany third - all leagues with similar quality. 4th is the Serie A slight behind and nearly on a par with the French Ligue 1 and the Portuguese league. I tend to agree with that but still I'm saying that all of those leagues are quite strong and most of the top teams of the leagues are able to beat each other on a good day. (7)

(1) If you have the time to search the freely available online database of of both CL and EL' date=' then it's not really that hard after that. I complied the list for la liga in about 30 minutes.

[b'](2)[/b] Compared in numbers by a set criteria that is the same for all. Each can choose their criteria and calculate the numbers according to it.

(3) Just like the UEFA Coefficient each stage has a set number of points. The more a club progress, the more points they get. This will account for their total performances even if little. In my list I chose to use the minimum of Semifinals because of time. If I have more time available I would do it all like UEFA because the data is available.

(4) With leagues of 20 clubs, it MUST be for both to have results not just for the top 3 or 4 teams in a league but also for other above-average teams and cup winners. It will give a much more comprehensive comparison than just the top clubs.

(5) YES you can rely on that. IT IS IN FACT the system that determines how many participants from each league are allowed in both European competitions. The system that the organizing body of European football uses to rank leagues because as mention earlier it takes into account every since performance for each club since the 1st game in both the CL and EL. It is the most comprehensive.

(6) UEFA's Country Coefficient account for 5 past years to make it most recent and relevant to current club strength as possible. In general debates like this one, we can increase that period since the european competitions has been there since the mid 50s. I used data from the start of the millennium because they roughly contain 2 generations of players that most of us here have actually seen playing.

(7) Yes. Yes. And Yes.

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Re: Which is the best League in the World?

If you are going by this.. has to be the Portuguese First Division.

Two games to go and..

Porto is two points behind Benfica but play them tonight.. Benfica win and are champions' date=' a draw and all be decided in the last game, Porto wins today and got one point in front but in the last game have to travel to Paços de Ferreira that is fighting for a CL place with Braga.. Paços plays today against one of the 6(!!!) teams that are trying to avoid relegation. While Braga plays against one of the 5 teams that is fighting for one Europa League spot as Guimarães is already qualified due to Portuguese Cup final.

So, 2 teams fighting to win the league, other 2 for the 3rd CL place, 5 fighting for an EL Place and 6 fighting for avoiding relegation. 15 out of 16 teams are fighting for something. Because if Vit. Guimarães wasn't already qualified for EL due to the cup final would be 16... There are gaps between each battle but each battle will be imense!

But apart from the top 8 our teams aren't great and of course we don't have the "best league in the world".. :)[/quote']

And yet, it is a two horse race. The top two teams have some 20 points margin to third in only 28 rounds. Outside Portugal, only Bayern is known to have that difference, and even there, the other big one, Dortmund who repetitively beat Real Madrid, only had 6 points to 3rd at that point.

Primeira Liga has just 4 different winners in some 80 years, and in last 30 years only 3 times has it not been Benfica or Porto. Only twice in the last 30 years has Porto not been either winner or runner-up, and both times they were third.

You can have tight duels in Primeira Liga, but it is not a tight league. It is extremely unbalanced league, top of the league never loses to lower half of the league, in fact, the two top teams haven't lost once whole season. Porto has only once dropped points at home. You have to go as low as 8th placed team to have one that would have lost to the bottom of the table club, 5th to have one who has lost to 3rd or 5th last, 11th placed Academica has not been able to win one single top-10 club. This is the opposite of tight, well-balanced, exciting and unpredictable league. And you see that in betting odds, in almost each match one team has unplayable odds, and the other unplayable chances.

The problem is, you focus only to these little pockets where two teams battle each other, which would be fine, if they only played each other, but they play against all the other teams as well, and the differences of level are immense. It's like it had some 5 different divisions in just one league. You have to look at the whole, and you are absolutely distorting my "standards" when you claim that according to them Primeira Liga would be the best.

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Re: Which is the best League in the World?

;2572314']kinda rushed my reply' date=' but the relegation battle in EPL is being contested from 11th place down, Stoke can still be mathematically relegated..[/quote']

Not sure if this was true when you wrote it, but it is no more. It takes for all the teams between Stoke and relegation to pass it, which now is mathematically impossible, because Wigan and Aston Villa will play each other. But still, there are pretty many teams that still can be relegated. Fast glance tells that they don't play against each other much these last two rounds.

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Re: Which is the best League in the World?

So you base your judgment on 2 games?

Evian won against Paris in french cup' date=' they are definitely way stronger then?[/quote']

What I meant and should have been clear was that you have no evidence on your listed teams being superior to likes of Schalke and Leverkusen. Or that these teams wouldn't handle EPL. You are aware that Schalke is 14th in Deloitte football money league? They were 10th 2010-2011 when they played CL, that means they were above both City and Spurs. If they get back to CL action again, they will rise back above Spurs and probably also Liverpool. HSV is 18th, yet has hard time battling for European places in extremely tough Bundesliga. These are not just decent clubs, these are massive clubs with huge resources, immense local fan base, massive revenues and a lot of homegrown talent to build on.

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Re: Which is the best League in the World?

And yet' date=' it is a two horse race. The top two teams have some 20 points margin to third in only 28 rounds. Outside Portugal, only Bayern is known to have that difference, and even there, the other big one, Dortmund who repetitively beat Real Madrid, only had 6 points to 3rd at that point.

Primeira Liga has just 4 different winners in some 80 years, and in last 30 years only 3 times has it not been Benfica or Porto. Only twice in the last 30 years has Porto not been either winner or runner-up, and both times they were third.

You can have tight duels in Primeira Liga, but it is not a tight league. It is extremely unbalanced league, top of the league never loses to lower half of the league, in fact, the two top teams haven't lost once whole season. Porto has only once dropped points at home. You have to go as low as 8th placed team to have one that would have lost to the bottom of the table club, 5th to have one who has lost to 3rd or 5th last, 11th placed Academica has not been able to win one single top-10 club. This is the opposite of tight, well-balanced, exciting and unpredictable league. And you see that in betting odds, in almost each match one team has unplayable odds, and the other unplayable chances.

The problem is, you focus only to these little pockets where two teams battle each other, which would be fine, if they only played each other, but they play against all the other teams as well, and the differences of level are immense. It's like it had some 5 different divisions in just one league. You have to look at the whole, and you are absolutely distorting my "standards" when you claim that according to them Primeira Liga would be the best.[/quote']

I only replied because the only reason you pointed to Ligue 1 be the best was,

For entertainment and excitement' date=' it's Ligue 1, hands down. (...) Ligue 1 champion is not even known yet. Still an immense battle for the last CL place, let alone the two EL spots.[/quote']

Where in Portugal ALL was indifinite with two games to go. What's unusual( in the top leagues this year at least) and very exciting because every "battle" will be decided by a detail.

When I say exciting, I am referring not to the quality of the football, but to the uncertainties that clubs have and the fact they will have to play with calculator in the one hand and a radio in the other, listening to the other games to know what happens and to make calculations of their life.

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