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Riferimento: New Finances (Loans / Contracts)

"We have made several changes to finances with the intention of tightening the finances and giving cash a 'value' again."

giving cash a value again???? In my italian championship, managing a little 3rd series team, cash have always had a value! a great value.

And i'm fighting everyday trying not to go go bankrupt....

Thank you SMFA to have contributed to the complete destruction of my finances.....

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Re: Sm the wages of players on loan from shared between the two clubs Find this a bit of an unwelcome change in that I had hoped if SM were to touch the loan system it would be to allow people to neg

Re: New Finances (Loans / Contracts)

reading some comments above, i think all the game needs is a few more tweaks...

regarding rule 2, i think it would only be fair if this contract changes only happened in the 'off-season', so the time between the end of a season and a new one, much alike real life when a majority of contracts are negotiatied.........rather than ongoing in the middle of a season. gives the 'pre-season' a bit more focus than a few meaningless friendlies i usually ignore!

maybe a feature to negotiate a deal can be created?? ie 2 year deal on X amount (more) or long term 5 years on Y amount (less than X), (using the same programming for TL players when you get external bids, you get multiple offers..)

so you could sign a long term deal on less wages but run the risk of player rating going up and becoming unhappy at his wage....but in a short term deal, he gets a higher wage which he has no chance of becoming unhappy as in 2 'seasons' will go back to the negotiating stages...

Means clubs can set a budget for the season, and can work out better how there finances can be managed over the season.

id also like stadium development to increase more than the current limit ,,which seems to be 24/25K.

if you get a small club into the big time & Champions League (SM version) over a few seasons, i think a new limit of 35,000 is appropriate. Of course if should be done over several seasons, for example (based on finishing top half and qualfying for Europe)..

promotion to Div 1 you get up to 15-20K,

Season 2 (if successful) 20-25,

Season 3 - 25-30,

Season 4/5 30-35,

Season 6 35K...

something along those lines could be easily implemented using the existing system that is written into the game.

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Re: New Finances (Loans / Contracts)

OK, so they are now going to auto-renew contracts to bring their wages more in line with value.

Does that mean we are now going to see players wages fall in line with their value decreasing?

i.e. Robinho went from 93 down to 91, yet he is still on the wages of a 93 rated player. Even when renewing his contract, his wages stays the same.

Can't have it both ways SM...

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Riferimento: Re: New Finances (Loans / Contracts)

Does that mean we are now going to see players wages fall in line with their value decreasing?

i.e. Robinho went from 93 down to 91' date=' yet he is still on the wages of a 93 rated player. Even when renewing his contract, his wages stays the same.[/quote']

Good point, man.

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Re: New Finances (Loans / Contracts)

Okay as far as I'm aware of the main issue is it's tough on the smaller teams, right?

Well, nothing is ever perfect, SM can't satisfy everybody and there are winners but there are also losers in every outcome of events. But IMO the changes are good because (I'll make it more reader friendly, as even I can't be bothered reading a block of words :P)

1. It evens out the playing field across the WHOLE of SM, not just a GW, not just a team, the WHOLE of SM.

2. The Managers that have come on to complain are mainly the ones with small teams built into good teams. This is understandable, however have you counted how many of you have come on to complain? And how many of other small team managers there are across the WHOLE of SM? This change is fairer maybe not to you lot (I too have some small teams that will be hit) but it's fairer to the MAJORITY of small team managers on SM.

3. For every GW that has a few good managers building small teams into something good, there are 10 other GWs that are unmanaged except the top 3-6 sides, why? Because these top sides in every GW has the largest revenue income (something that can never be altered) and the best and largest amount of players. By increasing the wage bill for the TOP earners, it ensures that player hogging doesn't occur too much across ALL GWs of SM and makes the odds fairer on smaller teams.

4. It's also more realistic, who's ever heard of Huddersfield having Messi, Ronaldo and Iniesta in its team? No matter how glorious it sounds or how great a job that manager has done, it's simply not realistic enough. This wage increase does sort of pave the way for the highest players going to the bigger clubs, HOWEVER, because their wages are so huge now (a team with just the 4 players Messi + Ronaldo + Iniesta + Xavi would have a wage bill ~600k) they certainly can't buy all the other high rated players or much youths, this ensures a fairer distribution of players in terms of their quality and quantity across every GW (a team with 5 95+ players = a team with 10 92+ players = a team with 20 90+ players) so in the end although a few smaller clubs that have become successfull are unhappy, this change does mean SM is fairer on OTHER smaller clubs (just because you have a small team with a couple of 92+ players and a good youth team doesn't mean the 50 other smaller teams do as well)

5. I have managed a Manchester United in a Gameworld for 2.5 years now, at first it was the most popular Forum based European Championship but as I progressively improved my squad, added talents and kept players, not selling to smaller clubs, there are less and less forumers and managers, you see this in all GWs, the rate of progression of clubs improving their squads, buying from unmanaged etc is DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to the rate of the decline of the number of managers in the GW. By forcing this wage increase it encourages less ravaging of unmanaged clubs and therefore make it more likely GWs stay relatively well managed.

6. It's already succeeding in forcing the best teams who player hog having to sell top players because the wages are simply killing them. In the same Manchester United that I've talked about above, my entire squad + loans worth ~950mill, with the average of my best 18 players being 94 rated. Before the Wages update my wages were like ~2.6mill a turn, just about manageable and naturally forcing me to stop buying more players from unmanaged like Zabaleta, Lacazette, Van Ginkel etc. Now with the wages update my wages are 3.2M+ and even in a turn that I play a League match at home + SMFA cup match at home, I still make a loss in that turn. So now I'm having to sell all of these players: Xavi, Rooney, Gomez, Modric, Moutinho, Valencia, Cazorla, Badstuber because they simply cost too much to maintain on the bench/playing solely on Cup games. Therefore it does make the smaller clubs stronger and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

7. I gotta go school now as I spent more than 30mins typing this and I'm 22 mins late :P

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Re: New Finances (Loans / Contracts)

Hyina your argument is fine but i disagree with your sentiments were small clubs are concerned... i've no chance of paying wages for any 92+ players (Even before these latest changes i would have had t sell many youth prospects once more players started getting 90 rating) with an attendence of 4000 or 15/20000 like alot of smaller gc's clubs/or attendence levels) let alone meeting the objective of the game in attaining the best players to join and even over take the barce's real uniteds liverpools etc

You make valid points but the reality is that anyone controling teams like oldham stevenage darlington drogheda queens-park (In gc's) (and let be honest because of real life attendences) even clubs like steaua etc etc etc the list might struggle (clubs with low real life attendence)

yes maybe the few super clubs "might struggle" to have alot of 92+'s (i've yet to see the evidence to suggest this yet tough) but the medium size clubs and ABSOLUTLY the smaller clubs can no longer afford someone like alves or iniesta in his team let alone a few of them, or even a few dimarias pepe's kadeiras etc

My drogs in GC have 1 91 player, 2 or 3 90's and the rest 89 & below with a squad size (loaned out aside) of 30 odd players, even with me having to pay no wage to loaned out i over the last few seasons had to sell subs just to get out of the red, i have no first team squad members left to sell, with now having to pay 50% of the youth wages, i will have to sell prospects, when some my players get to 92+ eventually i'll be forced to sell youth prospects off at an alarming rate.

Effectively what is happening to the small clubs is what people want to see with the big clubs, any across the board financial changes will always effect the smaller club more and more rapidly than the big clubs.

Any man united that starts struggling can sell some 89's and 90's maybe even unwanted 91's for big bucks, selling 4 or 5 could earn 100s millions, my small team must sell 30/50 youth prospects for this same revenue.

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Re: New Finances (Loans / Contracts)

This could be the nail in the coffin for soccermanager, alot of users will go into debt and have no idea why beceasue there was no annoucment of this change and as such will lose interest in the game, considering there is maybe 20-30 big clubs that this change wont effect and then consider the 100s of small teams that this will effect over all the different gameworlds.

I have never played an online game with such bad customer relations between devs and users, it really is astounding that the game is still afloat but they are doing their best to sink it!

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Riferimento: Re: New Finances (Loans / Contracts)

This could be the nail in the coffin for soccermanager' date=' alot of users will go into debt and have no idea why beceasue there was no annoucment of this change and as such will lose interest in the game, considering there is maybe 20-30 big clubs that this change wont effect and then consider the 100s of small teams that this will effect over all the different gameworlds.

I have never played an online game with such bad customer relations between devs and users, it really is astounding that the game is still afloat but they are doing their best to sink it![/quote']

Yes it really is a pity...

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Re: Sm the wages of players on loan from shared between the two clubs

Find this a bit of an unwelcome change in that I had hoped if SM were to touch the loan system it would be to allow people to negotiate the terms of a loan.

This doesn't happen in real life' date=' is not a fun addition to the game, and I don't recall seeing people asking for this change on the forum, so I don't see why this has been plucked out for action in this "community driven" game.

As has been mentioned perhaps it is to hit people with lots of players out on loan. Speaking as one such monster, I can't really see this impacting upon me much due to the hugely inflated prices I can sell players for, so I think it is wide of the mark.

Also a bit disappointed that SM don't announce changes like this to the community. We should not have to find out about these things by happening across a Club Message with a loan offer (or this thread)![/quote']

Tebthereb is one of the most respected members on this board. He is a moderator and if you look in the community best managers section, he is ranked #1 and is probably one the best managers on SM.

If he says its not going to impact him, presumably as he could just sell a £10M player to easily the cover the 50% loan wage, even Teb realises that its the small manager that has been disproportionately hit in the nether region.

I recommend every managers reads his post and considers the wider implications for the game, the guy knows what hes talking about!

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Riferimento: New Finances (Loans / Contracts)

I have started to play to SM 2 years ago. I started with an 83 rated avg. squad. The 2 top players in this team were 88 rated. I sold them and I bought an 89 player. The construction of my squad went from there. I bought Lewandowsky when he was a new 88 rated player and his name was unknown and a risk. So many players I bought as Lewa: Piszczek, Dante, Courtois, Lars Bender etc. etc. In my 2nd SM season my avg squad was 86; 88 was in the 3rd; 89 avg squad was previous season. Now is 90/91. At the same time, the best team was a 94 rated in my 1st season. Now it is 94 yet. Lot of young and good prospect players are available. I sold someone of them because it is not possible to keep much players for my little squad. Then SMFA arrives and destroys all this.. Why??? :mad:

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Re: New Finances (Loans / Contracts)

Hyina his small club will be punished, those other unsucessfull small clubs that have not had a good manager(s) and who have not built up there sqaud won't be affected as they don't have insurmountable wages now to deal with.

His punishment is being sucessfull, no one is making the argument that every small clubs should recieve a 40/50k stadium at any stage to truely rival a barce or united etc but not being able to afford 92+'s is for one word simply idiotic

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Riferimento: Re: New Finances (Loans / Contracts)

And also:

I'm sorry to say but all of you saying Squad Cap is better than a wage increase are totally wrong.

It's quality of player in the end that counts' date=' not quantity.

Would you rather be Barcelona with 21 players, squad worth 500 mill

or

Would you rather be PAOK with 210 players, squad worth 500 mill?

Squad cap isn't going to solve anything in terms of having good players spread out over a variety of clubs more. I can easily just have 50 of the highest players in SM.

It's a good idea (one that I once backed) but doesn't achieve anything in terms of spreading the quality of the players more evenly across all GWs.[/quote']

Maybe cap is not the solution to distribute best players. But a large squad doesn't allows to have a distribution of young and good players in the future.

If I manage a Barcelona now, it doesn't ensure to me that Barça will be the best european club for next 5-10 years.

So I believe that a good solution could be another.

I think it could be better if the start budget's each squad was balanced in base of his average rating and his original serie when a Game World is created. So a big team that want to buy a player can't. It could buy some player after it sold someone only or after some season when cash increases by selling tickets, tv rights, etc. etc.

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Re: New Finances (Loans / Contracts)

And also:

I'm sorry to say but all of you saying Squad Cap is better than a wage increase are totally wrong.

It's quality of player in the end that counts' date=' not quantity.

Would you rather be Barcelona with 21 players, squad worth 500 mill

or

Would you rather be PAOK with 210 players, squad worth 500 mill?

Squad cap isn't going to solve anything in terms of having good players spread out over a variety of clubs more. I can easily just have 50 of the highest players in SM.

It's a good idea (one that I once backed) but doesn't achieve anything in terms of spreading the quality of the players more evenly across all GWs.[/quote']

You dont seem to understand the situation, clearly. Quantity? Which quantity? There is simply nothing left in most GWs anymore.

you want to join a kinda older GW(cause the new ones are becoming almost empty after a couple of weeks) and there is a manager with 200 players squad, another with 100, many others with 90-80 etc. and all of the big stars are taken. the best youth too. And as a new manager in this GW who wants to start making a team you re left with only some 33+ year olds with 85-87 rating soon to be retired players available for your team.

The only people who doesnt want the squad cap are people that own 100+ squad teams.

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Re: New Finances (Loans / Contracts)

This is a disaster for those small teams that need to loan their young players out, since it's impossible in SM to increase the stadium capacity and they cannot afford big wage bills.

It's either you allow the smaller clubs to increase their incomes through gate receipts or you allow them to lower the operating costs through lowering the wage bill.

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Re: New Finances (Loans / Contracts)

This is a disaster for those small teams that need to loan their young players out' date=' since it's impossible in SM to increase the stadium capacity and they cannot afford big wage bills.

It's either you allow the smaller clubs to increase their incomes through gate receipts or you allow them to lower the operating costs through lowering the wage bill.[/quote']

Yep, SM's genius now means that small teams stay small.

Utterly inept...

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Re: New Finances (Loans / Contracts)

1st point - I wouldn't call it being punished' date=' more 'restricted'. Yes I will be restricted, so will other big teams who hog the best players. It's the redistribution of good player that matters, not the individual teams who does/doesn't benefit. I don't see why that's so difficult to understand?[/quote']

I already gave an example of a small club who only have 3 or 4 90+ (highest 91) even with 30 players on their squad still going into the red/being in the red always

With these small clubs only being able to compete (sqaud wise) by investing in prospects for years in the future, with these small clubs now having to pay 50% of their wages (i actually have no issue here specifically on its own merit) but these small clubs eventually attaining 92+ players they simply can't afford to ever match the best sides in their gameworlds on squad rating

All my small sides i had to log into SM today and have put it out thre that players are available for cash and that some top youth prospects are available for cash (just to pay for small teams with a few 90's.. let alone if it was the case that these small teams i had have many 92+, i've not attained such sides yet in this regard but i know that some people in gameworlds i am in have done so) but my medium size clubs and big clubs i have On SM i need not worry from what i've seen/projected thus far

2nd point - small clubs should not receive 40k/50k stadiums' date=' I don't think anyone's said that. This game is about being real as much as being SM. Truly rival the big teams? That's to do with tactics and formations. Not being able to afford 92+? What on earth are you talking about? SM has made it more difficult, yes, but you can still buy them, PROVIDED you juggle with the rest of your teams effectively and having to sell some of your players to other small clubs, which btw makes things more fair, again.[/quote']

What i'm talking about? the whole point of this game is to atttain a strong first 11 or even 2nd 11, attaining & keeping such a side with a small club (unless severe investment in risers AKA playing the game like a guarunteed stock market) is a absolutle non runner now

The minority of managers take control and stay with small clubs, now that even if they stay with such a side years and get have the messi's and iniestas of the future (or even the kadeiras and dimarias) and simply not being able to afford such players is illogical

if these recent changes were specifically brought in to make the game more realistic (so smaller clubs were always "smaller") then it would be a good addition, as it works that way, but these additions were supposedly brought in so the MEGA SIDES couldn't hog too many 92+ players (or more accuratly too many 90+'s) as these top sides will still keep as many 92+ as they want and just sell their 88/90's (who may or may not be prospects) for inflated values, while the smaller clubs already before these recent changes had little in the way to sell to finance their existing wage bill demands, these small clubs won't be in a posisition with sign such players & will never be in a posisition hold onto any future 92+ (or a fair number of them) that they have developed as youth signings, in essence SM have forced the smaller clubs to always be inferior to the mega clubs "squad quailty/debt wise" were'as before it was easier/more possible for small clubs to match thsoe mega clubs (even of these mega clubs had excessive non-playing 90&91 rated players)

yes it forces mega clubs to perhaps sell unwanted 89/91's if they have excessive ammounts, but it also means the smaller clubs can't afford the very best players & the reality being small clubs on the game have squads of 89/91 players with maybe 1 or 2 or 3 (i don't know) 92+ compared with the mega clubs (and some medium clubs) havng a futher monopoly on the star players over small clubs.

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Re: New Finances (Loans / Contracts)

[MOVE] SM THE WAGES OF PLAYERS ON LOAN ARE FROM TODAY SHARED BETWEEN THE TWO CLUBS !

[/MOVE]

SM HAVE CHANCE THE WAGES FROM PLAYERS OUT ON LOAN

" A player who is out on loan has their wages paid 50% by the parent club and 50% by the club the player is at."

ACTUALLY THAT IS A GOOD IDEA that stops the hoarding of players' date=' they were nevertheless lent as much as possible, their salaries were still paid by the other club, now that era is finally over.[/b']

I hope now that you possibly can let go on loan, even more valuable players in rating,mean by this, clubs that many younger players have in their possession, as in real life, clubs like Chelsea, alone has 161 players on loan, in real life, more top clubs have many players like Barcelona, Real, United, Juventus, Milan, Porto,Benfica,Sporting,etc and many more clubs...It is not the intention for the moment to buy players just think there should be a possibility to the players who already belong to your club also to keep ... same als in real life, many good players are out on loan ...this rule would not apply to players who may not belong to your club as in real life, also to the contrary conveniant to buy players, but applies also provide an opportunity to keep yours orginal players ,like in real life within your club, but for every player that is sold, in real life, and which is no longer belongs to your club ( orginal players) who would rule must expire, so it remains up to date.

And we have the ability to borrow out players without these concerns. The better players develop concerns because they are lent, but in real life the are loan out also...(not for players that you bought,only the orginal players, so long he stay at the club,als in real life,that would be a further improvement ..

In itself a good idea, however, find good 50-50, the concerns of players who lent his rise too fast, yet the better, I would like to change something in there but just keep deer at the original players, and not spread to your purchased players.

EXAMPLE,

Aston Villa has a rental offer made ​​to FC Porto for Denis Cheryshev. A lease is for a whole season but may be terminated at any time by both clubs. A player who has been out on loan Their wages paid 50% by the parent club and 50% by the club the player is at.

I have sold players to bring in a revenue of 67m just before the changes were being in forced by SM.

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Re: New Finances (Loans / Contracts)

Hi Guys,

We have been reading this thread and ii's an interesting discussion.

I'd like to address some of the points raised.

1) Its now harder for smaller clubs.

Not quite sure this is true. It has always been harder for smaller clubs. The bigger clubs have always started off with better players, more money, bigger stadiums and fans and in the top divisions so had more TV Revenue etc.

That is how the game is, its easy to be a bigger team and harder to be a smaller one and build them up.

We haven't changed anything there.

The changes we have made penalise the big clubs more as they generally have the best players and so their wage bill has increased more and the smaller teams have stayed the same.

If you have taken a small club and managed to turn them into a club in the top division with highly rated players you must have been doing something right in the transfer market and on the pitch, and whatever it was you can still do the same things!

Its not as if before these changes it was easy to take a tiny club all the way to the top!

2) Loan 50/50 split

Many people had taken small clubs and turned them into big clubs before October 26, 2012 when we allowed lots more loan players to go out on loan. So rowing back from this position to a 50/50 split is not as bad as it was pre-Oct 2012.

You still get a lot of relief by being able to have an unlimited number of players out on loan at 50% wage relief than you did before Oct 2012.

This also applies to big and small clubs.

3) Players wages rising inline with rating/value

Unfortunately, we think this needs to be put in place as it was too easy to make money off risers. You can still make a lot of money off risers but you may have to be more selective of who you buy or sell them a bit earlier and you make a little bit less off each one.

This applies to big and small clubs.

4) Stadium Building

We are looking at increasing the Stadium building cap which is currently set to 25K. We are possible looking at increasing this to 30k.

5) Revenue Split

We have also given smaller clubs a financial benefit (which has been live for the past month) by altering the way clubs receive their revenue. We have altered the split between TV Revenue, gate receipts etc which has meant that smaller clubs are relatively better off than bigger clubs.

6) Better players available

The resulting changes should benefit everyone in a GW. There should be more good players getting traded and available instead of sitting at a club doing nothing, because the club does not have to sell them because they have so much cash. More good players available will benefit all clubs (especially smaller ones who currently have nothing to buy) and make for a far more interesting game.

This also means that the stadium sizes don't have to be in kilter as there should be more good risers/youths to pick from to make some cash.

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Re: New Finances (Loans / Contracts)

Hi Guys' date='

We have been reading this thread and ii's an interesting discussion.

I'd like to address some of the points raised.

[b']1) Its now harder for smaller clubs.[/b]

Not quite sure this is true. It has always been harder for smaller clubs. The bigger clubs have always started off with better players, more money, bigger stadiums and fans and in the top divisions so had more TV Revenue etc.

That is how the game is, its easy to be a bigger team and harder to be a smaller one and build them up.

We haven't changed anything there.

The changes we have made penalise the big clubs more as they generally have the best players and so their wage bill has increased more and the smaller teams have stayed the same.

If you have taken a small club and managed to turn them into a club in the top division with highly rated players you must have been doing something right in the transfer market and on the pitch, and whatever it was you can still do the same things!

Its not as if before these changes it was easy to take a tiny club all the way to the top!

2) Loan 50/50 split

Many people had taken small clubs and turned them into big clubs before October 26, 2012 when we allowed lots more loan players to go out on loan. So rowing back from this position to a 50/50 split is not as bad as it was pre-Oct 2012.

You still get a lot of relief by being able to have an unlimited number of players out on loan at 50% wage relief than you did before Oct 2012.

This also applies to big and small clubs.

3) Players wages rising inline with rating/value

Unfortunately, we think this needs to be put in place as it was too easy to make money off risers. You can still make a lot of money off risers but you may have to be more selective of who you buy or sell them a bit earlier and you make a little bit less off each one.

This applies to big and small clubs.

4) Stadium Building

We are looking at increasing the Stadium building cap which is currently set to 25K. We are possible looking at increasing this to 30k.

Thank u SM for accepting the proposal of increasing the stadium cap to 30k. It has been long overdue. Hopes SM can also really consider to give the option to set our own ticket prices if the possibilities of increasing stadium cap is not viable for SM.

Thanks.

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Re: New Finances (Loans / Contracts)

1) Its now harder for smaller clubs.

Not quite sure this is true. That is how the game is' date=' its easy to be a bigger team and harder to be a smaller one. Its not as if before these changes it was easy to take a tiny club all the way to the top![/quote']

How can loaning out players as a small sized stadium team, not now be harder, seeing as I now have to pay more in wages for the privilege?

I appreciate that my small teams may not be the most glamorous in the world but surely part of the FUN of playing this game, was starting with nothing and trying to build from scratch?

Just a side issue. Any chance in future you can perhaps alert us on these forums before the horse has bolted so to speak. Also please stop changing the home page around every 2 weeks, moving the buttons and other features around to new places?

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Re: New Finances (Loans / Contracts)

How can loaning out players as a small sized stadium team' date=' not now be harder, seeing as I now have to pay more in wages for the privilege?

I appreciate that my small teams may not be the most glamorous in the world but surely part of the FUN of playing this game, was starting with nothing and trying to build from scratch?

Just a side issue. Any chance in future you can perhaps alert us on these forums before the horse has bolted so to speak. Also please stop changing the home page around every 2 weeks, moving the buttons and other features around to new places?[/quote']

if your a small side with a small stadium how many players are you loaning out?

im guessing they are low rated? therefore on between 15-7K a week? of which you now only have to burden half of that so a figure between 7~3.5K per player. Which in essence is a very low amount. Not actually taking on that much more of a financial drain unless you have accumulated 50+ players out on loan...

you cant even afford them in your squad in the first place if your relying on loaning them out.

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Re: New Finances (Loans / Contracts)

4) Stadium Building

We are looking at increasing the Stadium building cap which is currently set to 25K. We are possible looking at increasing this to 30k.

Needs to go higher as far as I'm concerned

5) Revenue Split

We have also given smaller clubs a financial benefit (which has been live for the past month) by altering the way clubs receive their revenue. We have altered the split between TV Revenue' date=' gate receipts etc which has meant that smaller clubs are relatively better off than bigger clubs.

[/quote']

Care to explain how this works and how smaller clubs are better off?

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Re: New Finances (Loans / Contracts)

Ste are SM doing away with real life attendences then or they will remain, potentially rendering any small stadiums upgrades useless?

Can you hurry up, real small clubs have been impacted overnight with the new structures, i can't afford to wait even 2 months 16 turns with most teams with these new structures.

dan 25/maybe 30k is more than enough, the objective is to allow small clubs have a decent stadium, not all clubs reaching the everton size (medium) size club.

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Re: New Finances (Loans / Contracts)

JMH, don't be dim...

The reason small clubs buy in lots of 65-75's and then loan them out is in the hope that they may rise, can be sold, and the proceeds used to strengthen the senior squad.

With gate receipts not even providing for a competitive first eleven this is the only lifeline available and takes good scouting and balancing skills.

Paying 50% loan wages on a good number of 'kids' out on loan will almost certainly result in a weekly loss and keep small clubs permanently in the red.

The least SM should do is exempt U21's from the 50% wage rule.

SM may think they're making things fairer but these changes only help the bigger clubs that can feed off the elite clubs' overspill.

The small clubs, as usual, get shafted...

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Re: New Finances (Loans / Contracts)

JMH' date=' don't be dim...

The reason small clubs buy in lots of 65-75's and then loan them out is in the hope that they may rise, can be sold, and the proceeds used to strengthen the senior squad.

With gate receipts not even providing for a competitive first eleven this is the only lifeline available and takes good scouting and balancing skills.

Paying 50% loan wages on a good number of 'kids' out on loan will almost certainly result in a weekly loss and keep small clubs permanently in the red.

The least SM should do is exempt U21's from the 50% wage rule.

SM may think they're making things fairer but these changes only help the bigger clubs that can feed off the elite clubs' overspill.

The small clubs, as usual, get shafted...[/quote']

again what alot of nonsense.

all that method equates to is poor financial and squad management

you have obviously fallen into the youth trap., much alike alot of the people who are crying over the changes saying there 'smaller' sides will now fail...

the worst way of managing a side is to do exactly what you have described. Your buying in the hope these so called talents actually become worth selling or end up in the first team

the way to play the game is to buy what you can use and are happy to sell on. The worst way to run a side is to buy and cling on to every young player you can.

I manage it perfectly in plenty of setups, not empty ones either. full competitive GWs, the kind that you cant loan out 'kids' unless they are rated above 83 as under that they cant get in other clubs first 11 either.

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