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Re: Finances

Hi all' date='

We'll shortly be making a little tweak to this in line with some of the feedback here.

The amount you must offer currently changes depending on whether it is cash or a player being offered. There is no need for this to be in really and is proving preventative of some transfers which should be able to proceed in reality. This will now be the same going forward meaning the purchasing club will need to pay less then before which should stop the chairman stepping in rule out the deal in a lot of cases.

:)

Eric

PS. One thing that does seem to be lost in some posts I have read is the notion of a sellers market. If I have a player and another club makes me an offer for that player, that is definitely my advantage. Sure, I might be swayed by the quality of the player being offered (perhaps the player is better than my player) but there remains a premium payable for another club wanting my asset that could well be more cash, another player required to make me want to sell.[/quote']

Thanks for your efforts in engaging with us, Eric. What I feel is that the trade-out value should not be the same as its current value. It is just not consistent and not logical. For example, I have a 90 rated player that my Chairman values at 8M, so the trade-out value for me is 8M, while another team can trade out the SAME player at 11M. How is that fair?! If this player is going to be the highest rated player to the team I'm trading with, it is just not right that his value to the opposing team is the current value, where my team have better players playing in his position causing its value to be low. The PE is now so disadvantageous that if i try to offer a 92 rated player to buy a young 88 player, i still have to fork out a substantial amt of cash which is ridiculous.

Well if we talk abt seller's advantage, that is only legit if the player's side get to enjoy seller's advantage as well when it comes to selling. When I am selling players, 'there remains a premium payable for another club wanting my asset', so I should expect to have AI bids coming in that are valued at my Chairman's value then, and not the peanuts 105% of the player's current value.

Well' date=' yes, the SM chairmen are cautious in accepting a player exchange transaction and prefer cash transactions as they carry less risk...i.e. a player could go down in value, get a concern, lose form, get injured, not score goals, get suspended....I suppose this is why cash is preferred in real life transfer situations too?[/quote']

Similar to what I said earlier, the risks goes two ways. I am also carrying the same risks with the player I acquired.

Lastly, is it right that the Chairman is able to handout lucrative new contracts to players, w/o consultation with the manager? I don't see that happening in the real world either.

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Re: Finances

Re: Finances I guess the glory days are over then. No more making a fortune out of every riser possible!! Actually, I hope some of these new features do make money worth something again, but for tha

Re: New Finances (Loans / Contracts) Is this thread not getting mixed up with the 'Player Valuation in P/E Transfers' thread?

Re: Finances

I think the Chairman should value players based on their individual needs and squad depth.

For example, if they only have 1 left back, maybe a left back would be valued more highly in player exchange.

Or if someone wants to buy Cavani, they would value a transaction where they would get a striker in return like Torres + cash.

Might be a bit complex to implement though.

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Re: Finances

Hi Tsubasa,

I think you are talking about who initiates the transfer relating to the value of the player? This would come back to seller advantage. I rationalise these changes along the lines of...'why does somebody offer a player instead of cash? either they don't have enough cash so need to sweeten it with a player or perhaps they have a player which they think the other club could use to help them in their negotiations? In both scenarios a player is used as a substitute for cash, since we know that SM chairmen prefer cash, then the selling club may well need to sweeten the deal in order to substitute players for cash in the transaction.

You mention seller advantage occurring with AI clubs - and as you point out you do get a premium on top of the players value. You mention 5% but it varies and can be higher that this as most managers would note. We should be careful with changing the dynamics of interacting with AI clubs as we might open up a loophole similar to the one we just closed...buy a player at face value from an AI club, put him up for sale and receive a (more) substantial premium to the sale price and repeat again and again.

Eric

Thanks for your efforts in engaging with us' date=' Eric. What I feel is that the trade-out value should not be the same as its current value. It is just not consistent and not logical. For example, I have a 90 rated player that my Chairman values at 8M, so the trade-out value for me is 8M, while another team can trade out the SAME player at 11M. How is that fair?! If this player is going to be the highest rated player to the team I'm trading with, it is just not right that his value to the opposing team is the current value, where my team have better players playing in his position causing its value to be low. The PE is now so disadvantageous that if i try to offer a 92 rated player to buy a young 88 player, i still have to fork out a substantial amt of cash which is ridiculous.

Well if we talk abt seller's advantage, that is only legit if the player's side get to enjoy seller's advantage as well when it comes to selling. When I am selling players, [i']'there remains a premium payable for another club wanting my asset', [/i]so I should expect to have AI bids coming in that are valued at my Chairman's value then, and not the peanuts 105% of the player's current value.

Similar to what I said earlier, the risks goes two ways. I am also carrying the same risks with the player I acquired.

Lastly, is it right that the Chairman is able to handout lucrative new contracts to players, w/o consultation with the manager? I don't see that happening in the real world either.

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Re: Finances

Hi Tsubasa' date='

I think you are talking about who initiates the transfer relating to the value of the player? This would come back to seller advantage. I rationalise these changes along the lines of...'why does somebody offer a player instead of cash? either they don't have enough cash so need to sweeten it with a player or perhaps they have a player which they think the other club could use to help them in their negotiations? In both scenarios a player is used as a substitute for cash, since we know that SM chairmen prefer cash, then the selling club may well need to sweeten the deal in order to substitute players for cash in the transaction.

You mention seller advantage occurring with AI clubs - and as you point out you do get a premium on top of the players value. You mention 5% but it varies and can be higher that this as most managers would note. We should be careful with changing the dynamics of interacting with AI clubs as we might open up a loophole similar to the one we just closed...buy a player at face value from an AI club, put him up for sale and receive a (more) substantial premium to the sale price and repeat again and again.

Eric[/quote']

I really don't see the point of making it more of a seller's market as this is clearly going to put a lot of people off bidding on players and will probably just make gameworlds more stagnant.

Time will tell but I think you've tweaked something that just didn't need tweaking.

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Re: Finances

Hi Rico,

We're confident that this area needed looking at, not least as there was this loophole where some people were improving their squads by genuinely finding potential and negotiating good deals whilst some others took advantage of the imbalance of the p/e system to improve their teams. We definitely favour the former as making for a better game. Hopefully won't make the GWs more stagnant as should help to centralise cash deals as the driving force of the transfer system with the p/e system still existing to support the clubs options in the market for genuine deals.

Feedback is important to us though, so if you are think you have a way to improve things further then let us know.

:)

Eric

I really don't see the point of making it more of a seller's market as this is clearly going to put a lot of people off bidding on players and will probably just make gameworlds more stagnant.

Time will tell but I think you've tweaked something that just didn't need tweaking.

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Re: Finances

Hi Rico' date='

We're confident that this area needed looking at, not least as there was this loophole where some people were improving their squads by genuinely finding potential and negotiating good deals whilst some others took advantage of the imbalance of the p/e system to improve their teams. We definitely favour the former as making for a better game. Hopefully won't make the GWs more stagnant as should help to centralise cash deals as the driving force of the transfer system with the p/e system still existing to support the clubs options in the market for genuine deals.

Feedback is important to us though, so if you are think you have a way to improve things further then let us know.

:)

Eric[/quote']

I hope your right and your changes work although after years of playing I'm not sure if people will start doing cash deals.

Things I would like to see changed regarding transfers is the option to offer 2 players in part exchange.Changing this to 1 player would be more realistic and help stop excessive counter offers.

Also when you bid on a player you have a limit that you can't go past when making an offer and this should also apply when making counter offers as this will stop managers making crazy counter offers that clearly can't be accepted.The same limit should apply on counter offers so teams can only make legal counter offers.

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Re: Finances

The problem is you're trying to create a "one size fits all" solution to a perceived problem that has hundreds of variables across different clubs.

Stadium size.

Attendance.

Sponsorship.

Reward money.

To name a few.

It's lovely for all these big clubs that are successful in real life and successful in game, having all this spare cash to throw around, so much so that cash doesn't even have a value.

However, I can tell you that as a medium size club in an English championship, money definitely had a value to me and several other clubs in the league, mainly because now we don't have any.

You've sliced income, raised outgoings, crippled rating schedules and player values in an effort to control the run away finances of big teams with 40/50000+ home attendance and huge incomes, without a single thought for the other 75-80% clubs that are available to manage that don't have the luxury of such huge revenue streams.

I think I worked out my home ticket prices to be around £10, even packing out the 27111 seats each home game is generating such a pitiful income, barely befitting a team that's been in the EPL top 4 for the past several seasons, more like stuck at the original League 1 prices where I started with the team. It doesn't even cover maintenance, let alone wages.

I've got players to sell off, but now their values have plummeted, it takes three weeks or more to get an offer (let alone a good one) and there's no clue when they might eventually rise to get a bit more value.

Try working on a system that can account for such variables, and can be altered to affect everyone equally with regard to club status, rather than something to control the big clubs that cripples everyone else.

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Re: Finances

The problem is you're trying to create a "one size fits all" solution to a perceived problem that has hundreds of variables across different clubs.

Stadium size.

Attendance.

Sponsorship.

Reward money.

To name a few.

It's lovely for all these big clubs that are successful in real life and successful in game' date=' having all this spare cash to throw around, so much so that cash doesn't even have a value.

However, I can tell you that as a medium size club in an English championship, money definitely had a value to me and several other clubs in the league, mainly because now we don't have any.

You've sliced income, raised outgoings, crippled rating schedules and player values in an effort to control the run away finances of big teams with 40/50000+ home attendance and huge incomes, without a single thought for the other 75-80% clubs that are available to manage that don't have the luxury of such huge revenue streams.

I think I worked out my home ticket prices to be around £10, even packing out the 27111 seats each home game is generating such a pitiful income, barely befitting a team that's been in the EPL top 4 for the past several seasons, more like stuck at the original League 1 prices where I started with the team. It doesn't even cover maintenance, let alone wages.

I've got players to sell off, but now their values have plummeted, it takes three weeks or more to get an offer (let alone a good one) and there's no clue when they might eventually rise to get a bit more value.

Try working on a system that can account for such variables, and can be altered to affect everyone equally with regard to club status, rather than something to control the big clubs that cripples everyone else.[/quote']

Nicely put, I'd like the views from the Devs on how they feel this works for medium/small clubs where cash is a rare commodity.

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Re: New Finances (Loans / Contracts)

Custom Setup (Small clubs all from South-East Asia) - Normal Economy.

Now I don't expect the prize money to be high but a third of what one would originally get for a cup victory is absurd.

Also' date=' noticed that the cost of ground maintenance is exactly half or more of the income received from gate receipts. This too has been almost doubled.[/quote']

i think your very much overlooking the fact you have chosen small Asian clubs.......and a custom setup. customs are all going to have a set prize, and small clubs are going to have high maintenance fees and low ticket prices/gate attendance.

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Re: Finances

T.............

You've sliced income' date=' raised outgoings, crippled rating schedules and player values in an effort to control the run away finances of big teams with 40/50000+ home attendance and huge incomes, without a single thought for the other 75-80% clubs that are available to manage that don't have the luxury of such huge revenue streams.

[b']I think I worked out my home ticket prices to be around £10, even packing out the 27111 seats each home game is generating such a pitiful income, barely befitting a team that's been in the EPL top 4 for the past several seasons, more like stuck at the original League 1 prices[/b] ...............................

the price of a ticket in Germany can cost as little as £8....

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Re: Finances

His team isn't in Germany though

yes but just because he manages an english club why should he get a boost in ticket prices?

surely its a level field for all clubs from whatever country.

think about a GC, if there was an advantage to different nation clubs there would be uproar.

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Re: Finances

;2621652']yes but just because he manages an english club why should he get a boost in ticket prices?

Thats the problem having a collected calculation for all teams, as it forgets to take into account clubs climbing up the ladder. The larger clubs will always have their money income dwaft other clubs around them and it never gets addressed. These clubs can finished mid table, even get relegated and still sell out their ground.

If i took Sheffield Wednesday from the Championship to playing in Europe after winning a cup, i would expect ticket prices the following season to rise as well as the number of season ticket sales, to reflex the success that is happening at the club. As well as the reverse if the club didn't perform that well.

Sheffield Wednesday had 10,000 season ticket holders last season, to say that if the Owls got into the Premiership they wouldn't see an increase in prices or volume of season ticket sales is madness. The last time they played at that level, they had around 18,000 season tickets sold, each season

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Re: Finances

;2621652']yes but just because he manages an english club why should he get a boost in ticket prices?

surely its a level field for all clubs from whatever country.

think about a GC' date=' if there was an advantage to different nation clubs there would be uproar.[/quote']

Of course in the game you would expect the level playing field across all countries so that, for example in a world or euro championship, a team from the EPL isn't at a major advantage over a Bundesliga club.

I would be more interested to see what other teams in the league get for gate receipts though - my bet is that man utd, man city, chelsea aren't existing on £10 home tickets.

It wouldn't surprise me really to find that the ticket price is fixed for the life of the club based on the clubs original league position, or perhaps when the GW started - I started when Charlton were in League 1. I guess I might have to take over a few clubs in other GW's and do some comparing :)

Of course, ticket prices are just one facet of income, and a small part of the overall finance issue, it was just one of the easier elements I could get a simple figure for to highlight something I felt was an issue :)

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Re: Finances

Of course in the game you would expect the level playing field across all countries so that' date=' for example in a world or euro championship, a team from the EPL isn't at a major advantage over a Bundesliga club.

I would be more interested to see what other teams in the league get for gate receipts though - my bet is that man utd, man city, chelsea aren't existing on £10 home tickets.

It wouldn't surprise me really to find that the ticket price is fixed for the life of the club based on the clubs original league position, or perhaps when the GW started - I started when Charlton were in League 1. I guess I might have to take over a few clubs in other GW's and do some comparing :)

Of course, ticket prices are just one facet of income, and a small part of the overall finance issue, it was just one of the easier elements I could get a simple figure for to highlight something I felt was an issue :)[/quote']

its hard to calucate a rough ticket price now with the weekly finances,

attempted across 4 GWs...

Sheff Weds EC7046 - weekly gates 1.017M/2 home games gates totalling 55299 punters - average £18.40 a ticket..

Liverpool EC106 - gate income 1.24M, punters in the x2 games 78,125 = £15.87 a ticket

now some bizarre ones...

Sligo Rovers - custom - x1 home game, 1854 fans, 225410 income. ticket price therefore £121?!

Hayes & Yeading - EC 7660 - 3476 fans, 187305 income = £53 a ticket..

Now, in the Liverpool & Sheff Wed GWs im in Div 2 & 3 therefore outside top flight.

The Sligo is a custom with one division, Rich economy.

Hayes, is a normal EC, but im in Div1, European football etc etc.

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Re: Finances

;2621696']its hard to calucate a rough ticket price now with the weekly finances' date='

attempted across 4 GWs...

Sheff Weds EC7046 - weekly gates 1.017M/2 home games gates totalling 55299 punters - average £18.40 a ticket..

Liverpool EC106 - gate income 1.24M, punters in the x2 games 78,125 = £15.87 a ticket

now some bizarre ones...

Sligo Rovers - custom - x1 home game, 1854 fans, 225410 income. ticket price therefore £121?!

Hayes & Yeading - EC 7660 - 3476 fans, 187305 income = £53 a ticket..

Now, in the Liverpool & Sheff Wed GWs im in Div 2 & 3 therefore outside top flight.

The Sligo is a custom with one division, Rich economy.

Hayes, is a normal EC, but im in Div1, European football etc etc.[/quote']

I can only do teams that i'm in charge of

Napoli home game income (Gold Championship)

Att 50,434

Gate Recipts £1,815,620

TV Revenue £522,196

Sponsor £680,858

Merchandise £226,953

Total £3,245,627

ticket price £35.9

Sheffield Wednesday home game income (Eng championship)

Current div 1 champions and SMFA winner

Att 33,520

Gate Receipts £ 779,570

TV Revenue £442,468

Sponsor £292,179

Merchandise £97,393

Total £1,611,183

ticket price £23

Sheffield Wednesday home game income (Another Eng championship)

Just got promoted into Div 1

Att 33,935

Gate Receipts £705,844

Tv Revenue £451,207

Sponsor £264,691

Merchandise £88,230

Total £1,509,972

Ticket price £20.7

I only tend to go Sheffield Wednesday in my setups, so i notice the income gap or lack of it between the clubs alot more. There is no way these two clubs should be anywhere near each other when it comes to weekly home game income, when one of them has won competitions. But to then see a team which has just got promoted into div 1 get more money from Tv Revenue is just the icing on the cake.

It's not just the ticket prices which are out of whack, but the amount paid in sponsors and Merchandise needs to be brought into line with clubs that are doing well. At the moment it's clear, it will only rise a tiny bit which doesn't reflex the true achievements which that club has done.

Compare them figures to Napoli, within a gold setup. I don't manage the likes of Man Utd or other big clubs within Eng champ gw. But i'm willing to bet that their home income is on par with Napoli's.

It's because of the massive gaps between the large and small clubs, that people resort to using P/E to try and make money as we are trying to fill a void in our finances that will never be filled. It's something we shouldn't have to be doing season after season, looking for risers across leagues in the hope to make money, when you have won titles as it becomes tiresome. More so when you know, the larger clubs can sit back and do nothing and still make more money than you.

SM should be looking at increasing the finances of clubs which are performing at the highest level or having the option to increase the stadiums. It isn't a level playing field, large clubs with dwarf other clubs around them. But if all clubs had the opinion over time to build up sponsorships, increase stadiums so that other clubs could end up at the same finance footing of larger clubs then it would solve alot of problems.

If for my team which is currently Div 1 champions i seen an increase of between 500-600k a home game, spread across tickets, sponsors and merchandise. Then that fill the void i have to do each season via P/E to try and balance the books for my wages. If the season after that i didn't win anything and it went down to 200k, then i know that's down to the club not performing as well, which has a knock on effect in my finances

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Re: New Finances (Loans / Contracts)

;2621613']i think your very much overlooking the fact you have chosen small Asian clubs.......and a custom setup. customs are all going to have a set prize' date=' and small clubs are going to have high maintenance fees and low ticket prices/gate attendance.[/quote']

Ahh daggers you don't seem to have read the entire post. I had mentioned that I was given 1,500,000 for a cup victory and 1/3rd for winning division 1.

The cup victory was before SM hitting the bottle and the league victory after that.

Also remember getting almost a million for coming 2nd in Div 2 last season.

My fans must be tearing the stadium apart as the cost of Ground Maintenance just doubled after the changes.

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Re: Finances

This is a bit weird too' date=' l won div1 with my juventus for second time on a row and got only 5m. Last season l won 15m... how come ?[/quote']

It's disgraceful. My chairman has dished out new contracts to the majority of my squad, no stadium expansion, income has reduced and my reward for being the best team in the country is less than £3m.

I bet my sponsorship or tv revenue don't increase next season either.

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Re: Finances

It's disgraceful. My chairman has dished out new contracts to the majority of my squad' date=' no stadium expansion, income has reduced and my reward for being the best team in the country is less than £3m.

I bet my sponsorship or tv revenue don't increase next season either.[/quote']

This auto-contract-renewal should be changed, when player's contract ends he should be a free agent and another club can offer him a better CONTRACT not a fee i.e 10m but a contract ie 100k/week. It is more realistic! l know it will be hard for managers with over 50 players but there might be an option that signals you via club-message.

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Re: Finances

The latest update to the finances (transfers) has destroyed the game for some people. I'm speaking about those who like to play the game using whit and skill and do not rely on a simple roll of the dice.

The part exchange transfer change has made it pointless to look for risers to make some cash. Even if a player does rise a few levels, the value doesn't increase much so there's no money to be made. Shame, as this was the most fun part of the game previously, searching for risers. Then they changed the riser system so we didn't know what leagues to search through and now they change the p/e value of players so you cant make money.

Unfortunately as the match engine is pretty random, where my 92 rated team gets beat in one GW and my 87 rated team are on fire in another, then we are now left to just roll a dice for every match and the one who rolls the most sixes gets the title.

The very beginning of the fall of SM. Not fun anymore.

So does anyone know another football manager game online that is any good?

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Re: Finances

Is a bit weird what is happening at the moment in my gameworlds with the season tickets.

I enter a new gameworld in it's first season and playing in div 2. At the start of the season i got season ticket sales of £7,151,367, yes that is correct. Now you might think i'm at Man Utd or Arsenal but you would be wrong i'm at Sheffield Wednesday

In comparison with the same team in Div 1 in another gameworld I have only got £2,561,717 in season ticket sales.

Now when i seen the figures I thought it must be a bug or something as I'm not in a custom setup these are just normal Eng Championships. This is the reply i got from SM

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. We have now reviewed this ticket and believe that there is no reported bug. Each Game World is independent of each other. Numerous factors are taken into consideration. Due to this we are now closing this ticket.

Regards

Soccer Manager

Now what even makes it more funny, is that in my 2nd Season you would of thought i'd get the same about again £7,151,367 but i didn't it dropped down to £2,561,717. So even tho SM won't admit it, I believe it must be a bug of some kind which gives teams an over inflated income via season ticket sales in the 1st season, which then goes back to normal the next season.

Has anyone had the same happen in new setup's, or have you all kept quiet as you don't wanna lose that money lol

I've also noticed that in a new setup for 2 games where they should be against league teams, they have instead become friendlies against teams in foreign countries

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Re: Finances

This auto-contract-renewal should be changed' date=' when player's contract ends he should be a free agent and another club can offer him a better CONTRACT [b']not a fee i.e 10m [/b]but a contract ie 100k/week. It is more realistic! l know it will be hard for managers with over 50 players but there might be an option that signals you via club-message.

Oh without a doubt this is my biggest problem with the game, it lets managers that are not really committed off the hook far to easily....

If a player is out of contract, HE IS OUT OF CONTRACT! SIMPLE!!!!

This business if auto-renewal is totally unrealistic, it does not happen in real life and as I've stated, it lets the semi-committed to the game off the hook far too easily.... IMO if your not in touch with your team enough to let your star player run out of contract THAT IS ON YOUR HEAD!!!!!!!!

It's stupid, please change it

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Re: Finances

Oh without a doubt this is my biggest problem with the game' date=' it lets managers that are not really committed off the hook far to easily....

If a player is out of contract, HE IS OUT OF CONTRACT! SIMPLE!!!!

This business if auto-renewal is totally unrealistic, it does not happen in real life and as I've stated, it lets the semi-committed to the game off the hook far too easily.... IMO if your not in touch with your team enough to let your star player run out of contract THAT IS ON YOUR HEAD!!!!!!!!

It's stupid, please change it[/quote']

How do you decide when a player can decline a contract renewal though? It's swings and roundabouts.

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Re: Finances

Is a bit weird what is happening at the moment in my gameworlds with the season tickets.

I enter a new gameworld in it's first season and playing in div 2. At the start of the season i got season ticket sales of £7' date='151,367, yes that is correct. Now you might think i'm at Man Utd or Arsenal but you would be wrong i'm at Sheffield Wednesday

In comparison with the same team in Div 1 in another gameworld I have only got £2,561,717 in season ticket sales.

Now when i seen the figures I thought it must be a bug or something as I'm not in a custom setup these are just normal Eng Championships. This is the reply i got from SM

Now what even makes it more funny, is that in my 2nd Season you would of thought i'd get the same about again £7,151,367 but i didn't it dropped down to £2,561,717. So even tho SM won't admit it, I believe it must be a bug of some kind which gives teams an over inflated income via season ticket sales in the 1st season, which then goes back to normal the next season.

Has anyone had the same happen in new setup's, or have you all kept quiet as you don't wanna lose that money lol

I've also noticed that in a new setup for 2 games where they should be against league teams, they have instead become friendlies against teams in foreign countries[/quote']

Thats what i've been ranting about. It's totally crazy the new formulas they have in place. I see guys like daggers saying how it's good for the game etc but they seem to be saying this as they mustve sold off all their extra players and sitting on pots of cash.

I've left a club and as an expirement have taken over Arsenal in Season 1 of a gameworld. The break even wage is now approx 900K. A bloody joke if I may..

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