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The Weakness of 433 wing???

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Re: The Weakness of 433 wing???

I used 4-3-3 wingers the other day and got beaten 3-0 with:

3-4-2-1

Tackling: Normal

Mentality: Attacking

Passing: Mixed

Attacking: Mixed

Tempo: Normal

Pressing: Own Half

Use Counter Attack

hows the ball possesion and attacking number?

coz sometimes, we got screwed up by goalkeeper when their form is 5-6

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Re: The Weakness of 433 wing???

hows the ball possesion and attacking number?

coz sometimes' date=' we got screwed up by goalkeeper when their form is 5-6[/quote']

Sorry my mistake, it's actually 3-2-2-2-1

50/50 possession, they had 11/15 shots on target, I had 9/13. My Gk (Courtois) had 7/10 but crucially all my outfield players had 6/10, none of his did. I think that won him the game

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Re: The Weakness of 433 wing???

Sorry my mistake' date=' it's actually [b']3-2-2-2-1[/b]

50/50 possession, they had 11/15 shots on target, I had 9/13. My Gk (Courtois) had 7/10 but crucially all my outfield players had 6/10, none of his did. I think that won him the game

thanks for the answer, i will try it first at friendly i think,

433wing is very strong, hasnt found it weakness yet,

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Re: The Weakness of 433 wing???

recently' date=' i found 433 wing is hard to beat

what is the best formation against that? im playing away

3-5-2 sometimes win and sometimes lose, so does 442 and 442 diamond

any better idea?[/quote']

I have played away match against team stronger than mine using 4-3-3 wingers and I used 4-5-1 with following instructions: defensive mentality, hard tackling, fast tempo, own half pressing, counter attack, men behind the ball and the rest default.

The score was 2:2. His stats: possesion 42%, total shots 9, on target 8, 1 corner.

My stats: possesion 58% obviously, total shots 14, on target 10, 14 corners.

4-4-3 wingers is difficult to beat as you wrote but also is 4-5-1.

I chose it because seemed logical to me. Defensive mentality + men behind the ball + own half pressing secure your back while counter attack + fast tempo make your team capable in offense.

But it was only one match and needs further tests and maybe modifications.

Please write here in the future what you managed to invent against 4-4-3w.

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Re: The Weakness of 433 wing???

I have played away match against team stronger than mine using 4-3-3 wingers and I used 4-5-1 with following instructions: defensive mentality' date=' hard tackling, fast tempo, own half pressing, counter attack, men behind the ball and the rest default.

The score was 2:2. His stats: possesion 42%, total shots 9, on target 8, 1 corner.

My stats: possesion 58% obviously, total shots 14, on target 10, 14 corners.

4-4-3 wingers is difficult to beat as you wrote but also is 4-5-1.

I chose it because seemed logical to me. Defensive mentality + men behind the ball + own half pressing secure your back while counter attack + fast tempo make your team capable in offense.

But it was only one match and needs further tests and maybe modifications.

Please write here in the future what you managed to invent against 4-4-3w.[/quote']

i use 451def several times against 433wing, the result is :

1. 433wing play attacking vs 451def play defensive, both are down both flanks

451def win with more ball possesion n corner, but less attacking chances

2. 433wing play defensive vs 451def play attacking or 433wing play normal vs 451 def play defensive, both are down both flanks

433wing win with more ball possesion, corner and attacking chances, totally win

never use 451, i will try it in friendly,

thanks for opinion mate :)

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Re: The Weakness of 433 wing???

I have played away match against team stronger than mine using 4-3-3 wingers and I used 4-5-1 with following instructions: defensive mentality' date=' hard tackling, fast tempo, own half pressing, counter attack, men behind the ball and the rest default.

The score was 2:2. His stats: possesion 42%, total shots 9, on target 8, 1 corner.

My stats: possesion 58% obviously, total shots 14, on target 10, 14 corners.

4-4-3 wingers is difficult to beat as you wrote but also is 4-5-1.

I chose it because seemed logical to me. Defensive mentality + men behind the ball + own half pressing secure your back while counter attack + fast tempo make your team capable in offense.

But it was only one match and needs further tests and maybe modifications.

Please write here in the future what you managed to invent against 4-4-3w.[/quote']

Works fantastic for me and my Fenerbaçhe.

Sirigu in goal - Zabaleta, Godin, Benatia and Shaw defending - Matuidi, Koke and Kovacic in the midfield - Sterling and Ljajic on the wings - Mandzukic up front.

Target man play with Mandzukic works without fail. My wingers either side are bagging in so many goals it's getting ridiculous, not to mention every single corner being won by either one of the CB's or Mario himself. The only thing I add to that is an attacking mentality, attacking using both wings and fast pace (which I believe removes a little bit more stamina than normal).

The moment I'm in a winning situation, Ljajic and Sterling come off, with Koke shifting to the left, W.Carvalho coming on and Sterling coming off for Ramires. Almost no goals after that conceded, even against significantly stronger opponents. Carvalho and Ramires are almost consistently putting in 7+ performances, while I have a goal difference of 27 after 14 games.

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Re: The Weakness of 433 wing???

Works fantastic for me and my Fenerbaçhe.

Sirigu in goal - Zabaleta' date=' Godin, Benatia and Shaw defending - Matuidi, Koke and Kovacic in the midfield - Sterling and Ljajic on the wings - Mandzukic up front.

Target man play with Mandzukic works without fail. My wingers either side are bagging in so many goals it's getting ridiculous, not to mention every single corner being won by either one of the CB's or Mario himself. The only thing I add to that is an attacking mentality, attacking using both wings and fast pace (which I believe removes a little bit more stamina than normal).

The moment I'm in a winning situation, Ljajic and Sterling come off, with Koke shifting to the left, W.Carvalho coming on and Sterling coming off for Ramires. Almost no goals after that conceded, even against significantly stronger opponents. Carvalho and Ramires are almost consistently putting in 7+ performances, while I have a goal difference of 27 after 14 games.[/quote']

I also use fast tempo as it's the only good choice when we play counter attack. It has to be fast. What about pressing in your team? Own half or all over?

I don't use both flanks attack when play formations with strong middle like 4-5-1 or 3-5-2 because it seems better for me to attack through the middle or at least mix having three players in this area. But it works well in your Fenerbahce so maybe worth trying.

Also have Mandziukic up front and Benatia in defence in my Porto :)

Ok guys, so when you play against formations like 4-4-3 wings, 4-5-1, 3-5-2 or 4-2-3-1 let's write in this thread and try to work on it. These formations are probably the hardest to play against. Maybe except of 3-5-2 which is easier to beat using wings I think.

I will also try to use 4-1-3-2 and will write about the results.

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Re: The Weakness of 433 wing???

in my experience, i think that :

1. 433 wing

weak against : havent found it yet

tie against : 451def, 442, 442diamond, 352, 4231

strong against : the rest

2. 352

weak against : 451def

tie against : 433wing, 4231, 451, 442

strong against : the rest

3. 451def

weak against : havent found it yet

tie against : 433wing, 4231, 442

strong against : the rest

4. 4231

weak against : 541

tie against : 352, 433wing, 451def, 442

strong against : the rest

5. 442 is the most stable formation, it is very versatile against any other formations

with those counter formations,

in home :

1. opponent play attacking, i play attacking

2. opponent play normal, i play normal

3. opponent play defensive, i play normal and defensive(if i am weaker)

in away :

1. opponent play attacking, i play defensive

2. opponent play normal, i play defensive

3. opponent play defensive, i play defensive and v.defensive(if i am weaker)

i always win these days, i control more possesion but sometimes less attacking chance(if i play defensive), but i win more.

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Re: The Weakness of 433 wing???

in my experience' date=' i think that :

1. 433 wing

weak against : havent found it yet

tie against : 451def, 442, 442diamond, 352, 4231

strong against : the rest

2. 352

weak against : 451def

tie against : 433wing, 4231, 433wing, 442

strong against : the rest

3. 451def

weak against : havent found it yet

tie against : 433wing, 4231, 442

strong against : the rest

4. 4231

weak against : 541

tie against : 352, 433wing, 451def, 442

strong against : the rest

5. 442 is the most stable formation, it is very versatile against any other formations

with those counter formations,

in home :

1. opponent play attacking, i play attacking

2. opponent play normal, i play normal

3. opponent play defensive, i play normal and defensive(if i am weaker)

in away :

1. opponent play attacking, i play defensive

2. opponent play normal, i play defensive

3. opponent play defensive, i play defensive and v.defensive(if i am weaker)

i always win these days, i control more possesion but sometimes less attacking chance(if i play defensive), but i win more.[/quote']

Think can agree with the most although exceptions happen and are annoying ;)

Also instructions are very important.

For example 4-2-3-1 with attack both flanks gives good results against 3-5-2.

I'll add 4-2-3-1 is weak generally against 5-3-2 and 5-4-1 and quite strong against 4-5-1 which is worth to remember and to test further.

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Re: The Weakness of 433 wing???

Think can agree with the most although exceptions happen and are annoying ;)

Also instructions are very important.

For example 4-2-3-1 with attack both flanks gives good results against 3-5-2.

I'll add 4-2-3-1 is weak generally against 5-3-2 and 5-4-1 and quite strong against 4-5-1 which is worth to remember and to test further.

okay, i never use 451 before, ill do more research with 451 soon.

yeah, sometimes the goalkeeper screwed it up,

i hate it when my goalkeeper got 5-6 form, then ill lose 50% the match

and the most thing i hate is when the match engine got broken, its super annoying,

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Re: The Weakness of 433 wing???

I also use fast tempo as it's the only good choice when we play counter attack. It has to be fast. What about pressing in your team? Own half or all over?

I don't use both flanks attack when play formations with strong middle like 4-5-1 or 3-5-2 because it seems better for me to attack through the middle or at least mix having three players in this area. But it works well in your Fenerbahce so maybe worth trying.

Also have Mandziukic up front and Benatia in defence in my Porto :)

Ok guys' date=' so when you play against formations like 4-4-3 wings, 4-5-1, 3-5-2 or 4-2-3-1 let's write in this thread and try to work on it. These formations are probably the hardest to play against. Maybe except of 3-5-2 which is easier to beat using wings I think.

I will also try to use 4-1-3-2 and will write about the results.[/quote']

I normally start with "own half" and rarely change it, unless I go ultra-def in which case I normally change it to "own area".

The only time I've really been swept with the 4-3-3-wingers formation is with a 3-4-3 with two wing-backs in the midfield, which is kind of odd, but it's pretty solid when playing with three top-class defenders.

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Re: The Weakness of 433 wing???

okay' date=' i never use 451 before, ill do more research with 451 soon.

yeah, sometimes the goalkeeper screwed it up,

i hate it when my goalkeeper got 5-6 form, then ill lose 50% the match

and the most thing i hate is when the match engine got broken, its super annoying,[/quote']

Yes, the last is the most annoying as you don't know why you lost. It's engine, not unpredictable football.

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Re: The Weakness of 433 wing???

I normally start with "own half" and rarely change it' date=' unless I go ultra-def in which case I normally change it to "own area".

The only time I've really been swept with the 4-3-3-wingers formation is with a 3-4-3 with two wing-backs in the midfield, which is kind of odd, but it's pretty solid when playing with three top-class defenders.[/quote']

I'll try in several matches to play all over pressing + attacking mentality + counter attack and hard tackling. It may work as when you retain possesion at opponent's half you attack quickly before opponent set his defence.

There is one more thing I'm curious about. Do arrows mean your players move like it show while you have the ball or opponent has the ball?

For example when you'r team have the ball and your fullbacks have arrows in opponent's direction it means they would play more offensively?

Or when opponent have the ball the pressing would be higher because of your players arrows in opponent's direction?

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Re: The Weakness of 433 wing???

I'll try in several matches to play all over pressing + attacking mentality + counter attack and hard tackling. It may work as when you retain possesion at opponent's half you attack quickly before opponent set his defence.

There is one more thing I'm curious about. Do arrows mean your players move like it show while you have the ball or opponent has the ball?

For example when you'r team have the ball and your fullbacks have arrows in opponent's direction it means they would play more offensively?

Or when opponent have the ball the pressing would be higher because of your players arrows in opponent's direction?

It's the most frequent runs they'll make, so basically if you attack using only one wing, I'd definitely give the player in question an arrow in the direction you want him to go. I often put an arrow on my target man to put him off-centre to try to give another perspective to my attack. Similar stuff are usable in a defensive situation.

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Re: The Weakness of 433 wing???

It's the most frequent runs they'll make' date=' so basically if you attack using only one wing, I'd definitely give the player in question an arrow in the direction you want him to go. I often put an arrow on my target man to put him off-centre to try to give another perspective to my attack. Similar stuff are usable in a defensive situation.[/quote']

ani or someone else, i want to ask u question :

1. can we set playing down both flanks, and set playmaker in the middle(CM or AM), and set target man in FW, will it be work? im still confusing in setting instructions

2. what situation i have to use counter attack? defensive situation or offensive situation? coz i always set counterattack in whateter condition is it now

3. can "use tight marking" play together with "men behind ball"? i always use both of them in defensive & away situation

4. i rarely using "use playmaker" now, if people playing tight marking, and bang! the playmaker has been locked, then the game was over for us, is that logic right?

5. what condition we should use target man? attacking or defensive situation?

many thanks!

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Re: The Weakness of 433 wing???

ani or someone else' date=' i want to ask u question :

1. can we set playing down both flanks, and set playmaker in the middle(CM or AM), and set target man in FW, will it be work? im still confusing in setting instructions

2. what situation i have to use counter attack? defensive situation or offensive situation? coz i always set counterattack in whateter condition is it now

3. can "use tight marking" play together with "men behind ball"? i always use both of them in defensive & away situation

4. i rarely using "use playmaker" now, if people playing tight marking, and bang! the playmaker has been locked, then the game was over for us, is that logic right?

5. what condition we should use target man? attacking or defensive situation?

many thanks![/quote']

1. can we set playing down both flanks, and set playmaker in the middle(CM or AM), and set target man in FW, will it be work? im still confusing in setting instructions

I don't do it. I usually use paymaker when mixed or through the middle is set and the player chosen is my best midfielder. I'm not sure but if you set playmaker in the middle and attack both wings defenders would have instructions to play to the middle and on the other hand to the wings so where they should pass?

2. what situation i have to use counter attack? defensive situation or offensive situation? coz i always set counterattack in whateter condition is it now

My team was build to play possession football so I use counter attack rarely.

I think we can use it in both defensive and attacking mentality. It's about what to do after retaining possession. Players can wait and build attack or try to attack as soon as possible- and the second situation would be counter attack.

3. can "use tight marking" play together with "men behind ball"? i always use both of them in defensive & away situation

I use men behind the ball against stronger teams and rather don't link this with tight marking. In other situations I use tight marking as it suits hard tackling, pressing and generally agressive mentality with pressing. But I would like to read other opinions.

4. i rarely using "use playmaker" now, if people playing tight marking, and bang! the playmaker has been locked, then the game was over for us, is that logic right?

Hmm, it's interesting what you wrote. There is no option to mark playmaker indyvidually so I'm not sure about tight marking work like this but who knows? We should check it.

5. what condition we should use target man? attacking or defensive situation?

We can use it in both situations. While defensive he would collect long balls and wait for team mates. While offensive he would be frequetly chosen to take the ball and pass it to team mate or just shoot. I like using target man when offensive midfielders runs from the deap and his role is to provide them. Generally I don't tick this option and prefer more differentiated style of play.

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Re: The Weakness of 433 wing???

ani or someone else' date=' i want to ask u question :

1. can we set playing down both flanks, and set playmaker in the middle(CM or AM), and set target man in FW, will it be work? im still confusing in setting instructions

[/quote']

The 'playmaker' is basically the distributor, and is mostly a midfielder in a normal-attacking situation and a defensive midfielder or even a centre-back in a defensive situation. I normally always give the playmaker role to the highest rated midfielder or the player with the most assists.

Target man should be the player who you most want to see on the receiving end. Unless you're playing with extremely strong and/or fast wingers, I'd always play one of the CF's (if there is a choice to be made) as the target man. Another trick I've seen with the target man/wing-play combo is that strong forwards (à la Mandzukic) complement quick, agile wingers (à la Sterling), which can be further ameliorated by the use of the 'runs' (arrows). All it needs is a bit of experimentation.

2. what situation i have to use counter attack? defensive situation or offensive situation? coz i always set counterattack in whateter condition is it now

Depends, I normally always set the mentality to 'normal' if I'm going all out for counter-attacking play, simply because of the other options having a bigger impact on the game in my opinion.

When playing with fewer defenders (like a 3-4-3 or a 3-5-2 with attacking-minded wingers), especially if they have high ratings, I normally use the offside trap and set everything to mixed. When holding a lead and playing the counter-attack to possibly sneak in an extra goal, I use the 'men behind the ball' option, attack via one side and use the target man. That way most players remain in a defensive situation while two players have a more attacking role.

3. can "use tight marking" play together with "men behind ball"? i always use both of them in defensive & away situation

I wouldn't really do that, as tight marking is mainly to contain strong attacking forces while the 'men behind ball' option just ensures that the opposing chances will be (hopefully considerably) less. Both definitely work better with 90+ players (which seems quite logical), although I wouldn't really combine them.

4. i rarely using "use playmaker" now, if people playing tight marking, and bang! the playmaker has been locked, then the game was over for us, is that logic right?

Again, depends on the ratings. If you're playing against a team with stronger midfielders, I'd definitely field at least one solid DM and turn tight marking on. In any case, I think the playmaker is useful if you field different kind of players. From my personal experience, DM/CM/AM players tend to do a better job in that role, so if you have any, and are willing to play them with a proper DM, I would definitely keep the playmaker option on.

5. what condition we should use target man? attacking or defensive situation?

Both are possible, depending on the tempo of the game. Slow tempo and counter-attack with a target man is probably the most potent option in a defensive situation, while wing-play with a target man is probably one of the stronger combo's in an attacking situation.

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Re: The Weakness of 433 wing???

5. what condition we should use target man? attacking or defensive situation?

From my experience if you play counter attack do not use Target Man, just place fast FW/FW's and will do the job.

If i use Target Man will be a tall, with good header , and control ball / passing skills . I mostly use Target man in Defensive situations since when i play Attacking would like to let my team free to roll the ball everywhere and create changes .

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Re: The Weakness of 433 wing???

Tonight i have a game against Man. United (i manage Atl. Madrid).

he playing 4-3-3Wingers i lost in a cup game few weeks ago by 2-1 (i was away team) and didn't use my best XI (due to give rest to my players) , i m home team this time .

i will post results after the game for more discussions.

Hope , i win since i m 1st currently unbeaten at home :D .

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Re: The Weakness of 433 wing???

Sorry my mistake' date=' it's actually [b']3-2-2-2-1[/b]

50/50 possession, they had 11/15 shots on target, I had 9/13. My Gk (Courtois) had 7/10 but crucially all my outfield players had 6/10, none of his did. I think that won him the game

Recently I lost a game 4-1 and the opponents best rated player was 6! I had many 7's and 8's,madness really!

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