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Liverpool


Dave Leigh
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Liverpool  

  1. 1.

    • Torres
      5
    • Voronin
      8
    • Crouch
      1
    • Agger
      1
    • Kuyt
      1
    • Mascherano
      3
    • Finnan
      0
    • Arbeloa
      9
    • Benayoun
      8


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Re: Liverpool

well I'm a massive Liverpool fan as most people know but at the moment imo there is only 1 player who deserves an increase and thats Arbeloa and thats mainly because hes rated a little low anyway.

Liverpool have had a very strange start to the season and most of our performances barring Gerrard & Torres & Arbeloa has been poor.

Sissoko has had his worst spell as a Liverpool player he has been awfull and has admitted as much himself if anything Sissoko should drop down a point.

Mascherano has been excellent in some matches so has Vournin, Kuyt has been below his usuall self and Crouch has hardly played although when he has hes looked pretty decent.

Ive also been impressed with Yossi when hes played even before that hatrick

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Re: Liverpool

Herbythelovebug I would vote but can't see Arbeloa on that poll!!!

Your wish is my command ' date='but you had the same power as me to do something about it .

Maybe age breeds more intelligence .:P:D;)[/quote']

Haha I was actually having a dig at Mr Leigh, for not including him. :P :p

I WAS going to add him myself but thought; "who am I to play GOD!?!" - maybe Dave deliberately left him out as he doesn't rate the lad - I do though! :)

Well, unfortunately I had already voted .... went for Voronin instead. Both are deserving imho - Voronin to 91 and Arbeloa to 90, if not also 91.

Would be interested to hear what a Crazy OLD (read intelligent) Liverpool fan thinks on the subject!!! :rolleyes::D

Herby

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Re: Liverpool

Would be interested to hear what a Crazy OLD (read intelligent) Liverpool fan thinks on the subject!!! :rolleyes::D

Herby

Aurelio,Agger,Kewell,Pennant,Alonso,Sissoko,Mascherano,Babel,

All have not had many games through injuries ,rotation etc .

None of them even when having a run of games have been on a consistent par each game ,on/off to much for my liking .

So def no increase ,but at mo dont deserve a decrease so to me leave them be.

Reina,Carragher,Gerrard,Finnan,Riise,Kuijt ,

Again none deserve a decrease to me except maybe Riise ,but only because even playing as well as others i dont think he is playing up to standards we excpect from what he showed previous seasons ,so would be happy to leave him be,but no supprise if he dropped down 1. Gerrard just starting to find his form after his toe injury,thought he came back to early .

So again leave be.

Hyppia,Crouch,Torres.

Hyppia couple of og but you dont drop rating for that ,otherwise been ok to warrent staying as he is for now .

Crouch not used enough in my opinion but also shown when plays still deserves his rating at mo .

Torres to me again hasnt done enough in every game he has played to warrent an increase,think by the time season over he will be ,but not at this time .

Voronin,Benayoun,Arbeloa,

All 3 have impressed me ,Arbeloa def deserves increase,other two must be on the finest of tightrope of going up a notch ,but even if they stay as they are a rise wont be long in forth coming if carry on performing like they are .

Leto,Lucas.

To early to form an opinion on Leto just yet ,been ok but not eye catching ,

Lucas i do like with what i have seen up to now in his short time he has had.

Rated 88 at mo but can see him easily getting into 90 plus over next few yrs.

For the Youngsters on here that dont know much about him or never heard of him until Rafa bought him for Liverpool here is a bit of Background .

Lucas captained Brazil Under-20s to the 2007 South American Youth Championship title, scoring four goals in the process.

As well as being the captain of the Brazil Under-20 side he also won the Golden Boot in his country last year, the year previous in 2006 he'd become the youngest player ever to win the Bola de Ouro. This honour is given to the best player in the Campeonato Brasileiro and has previously been won by Zico, Romario, Kaka and Carlos Tevez.

So easily if he settles in prem and signs already looking good in my eyes is def one to watch .:)

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Re: Liverpool

Excellent post and overview Alan ... couldn't agree more! :)

Rep for you OLD man :D

btw - I think Kewell, should he stay fit, could easily recapture a starting place at Liverpool and if that was to be the case he would have to rise as 87 is a bit too low for a player of his skill, style and calibre imho.

An interesting point I have noticed, watching Rafa manage the team/squad.

It would seem that in several games, whenever Kewell has come on as a sub so has Crouch. I think Benetiz likes Kewell putting in dangerous crosses and thinks having the lanky giraffe in the box is the ideal aerial threat. :confused::rolleyes:

Herby

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Re: Liverpool

Am also a big reds fan, but have to admit that most of the players should stay the same if not decrease :eek:

Totally agree with Arbeloa, Benayoun going up and also possibly Voronin (although less so - few goals for someone whose played virtually every game this season). Disagree with the notion that Riise should go down. How Finnan (whose made more than his fair share of mistakes this year) is rated above Riise is beyond me, especially now he is no longer a regular.

I'm also afraid a fair few may be in line for decreased ratings. Sissoko is not living up to his initial potential. Crouch is not even warming the bench often. Kuyt has been hopeless other than running around like a headless chicken. Don't even get me started on sicknote Kewell :o . Itandje appears to be a makeweight cover. Then there's Fabio Aurelio, rated by Rafa for some reason. :mad:

I would probably argue Agger is under-rated and deserves an increase (look what's happened to Liverpool's defence since he got injured).

Others should probably stay put as they are performing neither exceptionally, nor poorly. Those that are, are not playing enough minutes to justify increases/decreases.

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Re: Liverpool

Am also a big reds fan' date=' but have to admit that most of the players should stay the same if not decrease :eek:

Totally agree with Arbeloa, Benayoun going up and also possibly Voronin (although less so - few goals for someone whose played virtually every game this season). Disagree with the notion that Riise should go down. How Finnan (whose made more than his fair share of mistakes this year) is rated above Riise is beyond me, especially now he is no longer a regular.

I'm also afraid a fair few may be in line for decreased ratings. Sissoko is not living up to his initial potential. Crouch is not even warming the bench often. Kuyt has been hopeless other than running around like a headless chicken. Don't even get me started on sicknote Kewell :o . Itandje appears to be a makeweight cover. Then there's Fabio Aurelio, rated by Rafa for some reason. :mad:

I would probably argue Agger is under-rated and deserves an increase (look what's happened to Liverpool's defence since he got injured).

Others should probably stay put as they are performing neither exceptionally, nor poorly. Those that are, are not playing enough minutes to justify increases/decreases.[/quote']

Nice to hear from ya Doc (if you're smart remains to be seen! :rolleyes::P;) lol)

Some valid points there; totally agree about Agger however the injury has cost him the chance to climb to 93 but I think he might get there by season's end. :eek:

Sicknote Kewell is also a fair call .... he and Saha must have a fantastic insurance package in place :P

Finnan is no longer first choice? Since when? who is? :eek:

Kuyt (or as spelled on SM 'Kuijt') hasn't impressed me much this season and I probably would decrease him as I expect more from a 92 rated striker. :o

I disagree about your comments re: Voronin. He plays deeper than Kuyt, Torres and Crouch. Works relentlessly off the ball and has provided numerous assists this season (most notably for Benayoun for his CL hattrick)

I think he's worthy of the 91 tag, as there's more to playing as a F(orward) than just scoring goals.

Anyway, nice post and input.

Herby

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Re: Liverpool

Totally agree with Arbeloa' date=' Benayoun going up and also possibly Voronin (although less so - few goals for someone whose played virtually every game this season).[/quote']

Torres played same ammount of league games as Voronin,he has scored 5 wheras Voronin 3 ,Yet Torres when playing is the front man gets more chances ,Voronin is diff he works the sides has different movement and quality and game intelligence to some of the others ,hence he gets deserved credit for a alot of assists.

Same with Kuyt if he was allowed to just stay up front like Torres then i think he would be more lethal,but that is not how Rafa uses him ,his workrate at backtracking and winning balls is as good as anyone ,but you cant exspect him to put bags of goals in unless given the main strikers role and stay up front .

Disagree with the notion that Riise should go down. How Finnan (whose made more than his fair share of mistakes this year) is rated above Riise is beyond me' date=' especially now he is no longer a regular.[/quote']

With Rafas rotation how do you perceive a regular for LFC ,usually its defined by the ammount of games .

Played 12 games up to now in prem .

Reina- all,

11.

Carra,

10.

Arbeloa,Finnan,Gerrard,Torres,Voronin,Torres,Babel,Riise.

9.

Hyppia,Kuyt,Pennant.

8.

Mascherano,Benayoun.

7.

Sissoko

6.

Alonso,Crouch

5.

Agger.

2.

Aurelio.Leiva.

1.

Kewell.

Even counting all the cup games and Europe Riise and Finnan are equal ,16 each ,only two players played more ,Gerrard 17 and Carra 18 .

So to say Finnan is not a regular i would firmly dispute that .:)

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Re: Liverpool

Another Liverpool fan here to post and here are my opinions.

Definite Increases

First Team

I think Arbeloa, Benayoun, and Voronin definitely needs increase. Arbeloa is now a starter for the team and Benayoun has put on some impressive performances while Voronin was probably bargain of the year for Liverpool.

I would say Arbeloa to 90, Benayoun to 89, and Voronin to 91.

Youth Players (U21)

Along with the three first teamers, I would say Lucas Leiva, Sebastian Leto, and Nabil El Zhar can get decent increases.

Lucas has played quite a few times in the Premier League and the domestic cups, not sure if he's played in the CL or not but he could get an increase to 89.

Lucas is definitely a hot prospect and Leto is another should get an increase as well. If I'm not wrong, played about 2/3 the amount of games that Leiva played and I think a 88 would be fine for the youngster.

I feel that Nabil El Zhar is the most underrated youngster at Liverpool. The Moroccan striker is a starter in the League Cup and the FA Cup and he has actually scored one or twice at the competition. Increase to 83/84

Definite Decreases

Well, there have been a few players that haven't played a lot this season, or no games this season.

The first one is winger Harry Kewell. The Australian is certainly a flop at Liverpool and deserves a decrease to 87, maybe even 86 from 88. He has only played once this season so far and has a certain injury prone.

The second player is Charles Itandje. I wonder why Rafael Benitez bought him even when Scott Carson was there. I feel that David Martin can perform better than Itandje, and to be truthful, David Martin has got about the same sub appearances as Itandje has. Itandje down to 87 or 88.

Mohammed Sissoko has been terrible this season for Liverpool. He's scored his first Liverpool goal against Sunderland but has done nothing more than that for the club. Runs around like a headless chicken, does tackles near the opponent's penalty area when theres no point on doing so. Decrease by one point.

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Re: Liverpool

I think Gerrard is over-rated. He hasn't been performing for a few months' date=' club and country. Compared to many players 95 or below, Gerrard hasn't shown to be better than them at all, both form and ability. I say it's time for him to get to 95.[/quote']

Gerrard is over-rated at 97 when I get married (I'm 12)

He has inspired Liverpool to so many wins this season. How dare you say that he is over-rated.

He has more ability then most players in the world, I see that he has no flaw in his game at all, where would you find the flaw?

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Re: Liverpool

If Gerrard is so great' date=' why is Liverpool and England both struggling?

If Gerrard is 97, Kaka and Ronaldinho should both be 104, Messi be 98, Buffon and Cech be 101. Pirlo and Gattuso be 100, Tevez be 95, J.Zanetti be 99, Elano and Petrov be 95.[/quote']

Gerrard deserves his rating because he is England's best player and one of the top 5 players in the world!

The ratings are correct, no need to argue.

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Re: Liverpool

Gerrard deserves his rating because he is England's best player and one of the top 5 players in the world!

The ratings are correct' date=' no need to argue.[/quote']

i could name so many better players than gerrard in the world, here are a few.

messi

kaka

ronaldo

rooney

ronaldinho

eto'o

pirlo

scholes

ferdinand

puyol

fabregas

riquelme

Gerrard is so over rated its un-real, hence why he was taken off in the scouse derby. "all heart, no brain", so says, none other than, you guessed it, the spanish waiter benitez. shush. YSB

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Re: Liverpool

Sorry crazy bones, was having a little bit of a rant yesterday. Of course you are right on both Voronin and Finnan :)

I'm a little harsh on Voronin as he's not lived up to expectations in my eyes. Always believed he would be the bargain of the summer and was an unheralded hero in the Bundesliga, often winning games single-handedly. Not really seen this so far in the mighty reds shirt (barring Besiktas possibly). He has also been involved in some of the reds most toothless performances this season in the EPL (Pompey away and Birmingham home).

True Finnan has been a near ever-present so far, but this is due to the current defensive injury crisis. Alas now Fabio Aurelio is back, I see the Rafa selecting the only brazilian who cant control a ball and Arbeloa being the first choice full backs :mad: Others were saying Riise's rating should go down. The point I was making is that both Riise and Finnan should be equally rated, whether that be 92 or 93 I'm not sure.

Nice job with the stats by the way.

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Re: Liverpool

Sorry crazy bones' date=' was having a little bit of a rant yesterday. Of course you are right on both Voronin and Finnan

I'm a little harsh on Voronin as he's not lived up to expectations in my eyes. Always believed he would be the [b']bargain of the summer and was an unheralded hero in the Bundesliga, often winning games single-handedly[/b]. Not really seen this so far in the mighty reds shirt (barring Besiktas possibly). He has also been involved in some of the reds most toothless performances this season in the EPL (Pompey away and Birmingham home).

True Finnan has been a near ever-present so far, but this is due to the current defensive injury crisis. Alas now Fabio Aurelio is back, I see the Rafa selecting the only brazilian who cant control a ball and Arbeloa being the first choice full backs :mad: Others were saying Riise's rating should go down. The point I was making is that both Riise and Finnan should be equally rated, whether that be 92 or 93 I'm not sure.

Nice job with the stats by the way.

Doc,

Did you ever actually see Voronin play for Leverkusen?? :rolleyes:

Or are you basing this on what was written in the media? :confused:

He scored 32 goals in 92 games for the pharmaceutical club, basically at a ratio of 1 in 3. For Pool he has managed 3 goals in 10 games, at roughly the same ratio. In all the games he has played (and I have seen a fair few of him in the BL and EPL) he's always played the classic FORWARD, a support striker to the CF (at LFC it seems to be either Torres or Crouch, at Bayer Leverkusen it was Berbatov).

Tom_Owen,

I agree about your ratings call on Voronin, Arbeloa and Benayoun, however how can you possibly justify rating Lucas on par with Benayoun??? :confused::eek:

Yossi has played X EPL games for West Ham and Liverpool. Even this season he has played 3 times as many games as the player you want to 'equal' him to. To suggest he deserves an 89 is just MAD!! :o

Here are the stats/ facts:

2007/08 Statistics

COMPETITION GS SB G A SH SG FC FS YC RC

UEFA Champions League 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

English Premier League 0 2 0 1 2 1 2 0 0 0

English Carling Cup 2 0 0 0 1 0 6 0 2 0

2007/08 Season Totals 2 3 0 1 3 1 8 0 2 0

So according to you, 2 Carling Cup starts and 3 sub appearances in the EPL and CL make him worth of almost international class. :rolleyes:

No offense but you had a BIG go at Harry Kewell, whom you want to see drop to 87. At least Harry has played in a WC, Asia Cup, won the CL and FA Cup ... something Lucas MAY never achieve. :P

Mark my words, if Harry manages to stay fit he will play a LOT of games for Liverpool this season, certainly a lot more than Lucas will manage! ;)

Rant over :D

I do hope this thread turns into one of quality rather than prejudice, especially from those that have to voice personal, unjustified attacks on players they don't like or that are from a rival club to the one they support! :mad:

Herby

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Re: Liverpool

I do hope this thread turns into one of quality rather than prejudice' date=' especially from those that have to voice personal, unjustified attacks on players they don't like or that are from a rival club to the one they support! :mad:

Herby[/quote']

Totally agree and its not just because i am a LFC fan,most members only have to check the Spurs thread and Man utd to see what i have said about members keeping their personal dislike of that club of that board,by all means any member can give their personal opinion ,but at the same time please give these type of threads the respect they deserve for the members that support these clubs and the member that actually started the thread who by the way i believe is not even a LFC fan,but has created a great thread for us that are .

Thank you all.:)

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