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Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

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Id like to refer people to this thread: http://forum.soccermanager.com/showthread.php?t=169229

Heres one example of the ridiculousness of soccerwiki at the moment.

Another baffling increase' date=' Michal Walski + 4 taking him to 80 after exactly 0 apps this season(and only 152 mins in his whole career).

I'm really getting sick of this, why are they actively increasing young players who have no right to receive one?

Three guys from PogoĊ„ Szczecin have received increases recently -

Michal Walski - +4 - 80 overall - 0 Minutes

Patryk Paczuk - +4 - 80 overall - 0 Minutes

Sebastian Rudol - +2 - 78 overall - 660 Minutes

Perhaps its quitting time. Roll on November 1st.[/quote']

Another is Ive put in a ticket for a playing playing in the championship to get added. 2 weeks later and nothing.

Thats just two examples. I know a lot of people have lots of issues with the horrific inefficiency of Soccer Wiki and the ratings sytem so I want this thread to be about suggestions on how to fix this and hopefully getting someone with a bit of authority to pass on this concern.

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Riferimento: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

Id like to refer people to this thread: http://forum.soccermanager.com/showthread.php?t=169229

Heres one example of the ridiculousness of soccerwiki at the moment.

Another is Ive put in a ticket for a playing playing in the championship to get added. 2 weeks later and nothing.

Thats just two examples. I know a lot of people have lots of issues with the horrific inefficiency of Soccer Wiki and the ratings sytem so I want this thread to be about suggestions on how to fix this and hopefully getting someone with a bit of authority to pass on this concern.

Suggestion is to boycott SoccerWiki

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Re: Riferimento: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

Suggestion is to boycott SoccerWiki

I like the idea but would it be possible to get enough people for it to be noticeable?

Also do you think they would care? Currently looks like they don't listen to the vote's were making anyway, so if there are no votes at all they will just increase players at random, like they seem to be doing currently.

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Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

Blah - contacted SM on twitter complaining about SW and received the standard blurb.

"we disagree as we're a community driven game and http://www.SoccerWiki.org is a community driven site that helps power Soccer Manager."

Their definition of "power" is very interesting :confused:

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Riferimento: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

There are a lot of people that agreee to boycott SW, I think they are the majority of the SM community. But SW needs few lovers to works. When I was a SW member my activity was very poor and my name was in the mid of SW Top Scouts of All Time (the list on the right in the page's site). I think SW is still based on 20-30 peoples' activity (world level!!!!!!!!!!!!). So SW is like a cheat-joke-bluff.

The administrator of SW is user JMH that coordinate the activity. Final decisions are taken by an unknown board (I suspect it is a SW-SM members board composed).

The only way to really boycott SW is NO voting their Data Changes suggestions, delete SW account and make a petition to SM asking to abolish SW system. As purposed changes, they could base SM up on external sites like Transfermarkt (SW changes are very close to Transfermarkt Data).

At the end, I can say that "SW power" seems strong (SW adm want to seem as) but it is weak (or inexistent).

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Re: Riferimento: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

NO voting their Data Changes suggestions.

No effects. Tickets need only be voted by just one SW admin' date=' and it went directly to "unknown board". (i don't know who is in charge there, so I'll use your definition)

delete SW account

No effects. You cannot see anywhere how many users have an account there, so you wouldn't damage the "reputation" of the website, and nobody would notice that.

make a petition to SM asking to abolish SW system.

Also no effects. You'll get a BOT reply

As purposed changes' date=' they could base SM up on external sites like Transfermarkt (SW changes are very close to Transfermarkt Data).

[/quote']

How would you do that? Did you see transfermarkt DB? I'd evaluate there're 150k players in their DB. that's it like 200% bigger than SM/SW DB.. And prices there are accurate just for top players. Go and check a top youth side out (e.g. Man Utd u21, PSG u21) and look at those prices...

Probably you don't know it, but transfermarkt released 2/3 years ago a manager game into their website (German language only).. Well, I tested and let me say it was a completely joke. You shouldn't change what we have here with that...

Just to point it out.. I'm not happy with SW performances. But your boycott purpose is not efficacious, and your purposed change isn't feasible...

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Riferimento: Re: Riferimento: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

No effects. Tickets need only be voted by just one SW admin' date=' and it went directly to "unknown board". (i don't know who is in charge there, so I'll use your definition)

No effects. You cannot see anywhere how many users have an account there, so you wouldn't damage the "reputation" of the website, and nobody would notice that.

Also no effects. You'll get a BOT reply

How would you do that? Did you see transfermarkt DB? I'd evaluate there're 150k players in their DB. that's it like 200% bigger than SM/SW DB.. And prices there are accurate just for top players. Go and check a top youth side out (e.g. Man Utd u21, PSG u21) and look at those prices...

Probably you don't know it, but transfermarkt released 2/3 years ago a manager game into their website (German language only).. Well, I tested and let me say it was a completely joke. You shouldn't change what we have here with that...

Just to point it out.. I'm not happy with SW performances. But your boycott purpose is not efficacious, and your purposed change isn't feasible...[/quote']

Dear Argala, I always read your forum posts/topics/answers because are very interesting. But I think you are a bit pessimistic man answering to my words. So at your all points I have/can answer with one reply only: SM can get back to old players' revision system simply. They can except league schedule, it is not important a 3 times big leagues revision but it is important that player's rise/drop evaluations - position changes were not horrifying as now.

This is just this SM community want.

P.S.: I think SW is really going to collapse, and I think I'm close to truth when I say that active members are very very few.

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Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

I've read all of the posts within the link provided and also within this one. Many thanks to those that have taken the time to provide feedback. I will pass this on to the Soccer Wiki development team.

Awesome. And a big thank you. The current system is clearly broke. I admit I dont know the best way to fix it other than pre-soccer wiki things worked better. Looking forward to seeing the response

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Re: Riferimento: Re: Riferimento: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

Dear Argala' date=' I always read your forum posts/topics/answers because are very interesting. But I think you are a bit pessimistic man answering to my words. So at your all points I have/can answer with one reply only: SM can get back to old players' revision system simply. They can except league schedule, it is not important a 3 times big leagues revision but it is important that player's rise/drop evaluations - position changes were not horrifying as now.

This is just this SM community want.

P.S.: I think SW is really going to collapse, and I think I'm close to truth when I say that active members are very very few.[/quote']

Mate, don't misinterpret me: I didn't want to be harsh, and I'm not being pessimistic, just trying to keep it real, purposing feasible countermeasures.

I agree 200% with you that SW isn't working as it should. In the beginning (Jan, 2012) I was convinced that SW was a good improvement. Think about it: a 10k community could review even faster than we used to do in the golden age with periodic reviews by country. I made a constant effort to help it out in order to enhance their work, as I added/edited 3362 (just checked it out) players and counting since then (and more clubs, more stadiums, more pics, etc.).

Imo the best solution is easier than coding an external site and sniffing their infos: they'd run SW as it's supposed to run: Building up a serious board of specyalized admins for each country, and giving them the power of coordinate the community work.

Now, let's see how: the "pyramidal" structure of soccerwiki (users

So, there's a problem at the base of the pyramid (it maybe could be fixed banning more harshly malicious users, and giving some in-game prizes like SM credits to worthy users), but the main problem, I agree with you, is at the top of the pyramide. The "unknown board" is working from bad to worse: this summer I had to wait fortyeight (48!) days in order to see a bunch of players accepted.. and I'm an admin: so figure out a normal user, who have to wait my approval (or by any other admin) and the unknown board approval, and can only submit a couple of tickets a time. This would be so frustrating for everyone, and I guess we already lost a lot of good users because of SW DEVS were just playing around. They're too few, or too lazy, I don't know, but the actual Unknown Board composition is the real guilty in this "red chain" we're speaking about.

I already discussed with Steven about this, I reckon they're busy with singleplayer implementation, but I think they should prioritize the SW issue as the main issue we have. Nothing against with you, and hoping this thread should integrate my purpose with more creative (but feasible) implementations, because personally I'm also fed up with waiting some changes there... ;)

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Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

Awesome. And a big thank you. The current system is clearly broke. I admit I dont know the best way to fix it other than pre-soccer wiki things worked better. Looking forward to seeing the response

We'd like to hear from people like yourself and others who regularly add / edit data on the Wiki, on your experiences and also ways that we could improve this.

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Re: Riferimento: Re: Riferimento: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

Mate' date=' don't misinterpret me: I didn't want to be harsh, and I'm not being pessimistic, just trying to keep it real, purposing feasible countermeasures.

I agree 200% with you that SW isn't working as it should. In the beginning (Jan, 2012) I was convinced that SW was a good improvement. Think about it: a 10k community could review even faster than we used to do in the golden age with periodic reviews by country. I made a constant effort to help it out in order to enhance their work, as I added/edited 3362 (just checked it out) players and counting since then (and more clubs, more stadiums, more pics, etc.).

Imo the best solution is easier than coding an external site and sniffing their infos: they'd run SW as it's supposed to run: Building up a serious board of specyalized admins for each country, and giving them the power of coordinate the community work.

Now, let's see how: the "pyramidal" structure of soccerwiki (users

So, there's a problem at the base of the pyramid (it maybe could be fixed banning more harshly malicious users, and giving some in-game prizes like SM credits to worthy users), but the main problem, I agree with you, is at the top of the pyramide. The "unknown board" is working from bad to worse: this summer I had to wait fortyeight (48!) days in order to see a bunch of players accepted.. and I'm an admin: so figure out a normal user, who have to wait my approval (or by any other admin) and the unknown board approval, and can only submit a couple of tickets a time. This would be so frustrating for everyone, and I guess we already lost a lot of good users because of SW DEVS were just playing around. They're too few, or too lazy, I don't know, but the actual Unknown Board composition is the real guilty in this "red chain" we're speaking about.

I already discussed with Steven about this, I reckon they're busy with singleplayer implementation, but I think they should prioritize the SW issue as the main issue we have. Nothing against with you, and hoping this thread should integrate my purpose with more creative (but feasible) implementations, because personally I'm also fed up with waiting some changes there... ;)[/quote']

Interesting read from you as your a "top SW scout" and admin there too. I have to say I'm pretty much in agreeance with you which I must admit I didn't expect myself to be before reading your post.

Ive been critical of SW from the start and have voiced it as such (I am Monkeyshuffl) as it seemed fanciful to think such a system could work as it is so badly thought out and implemented. It isn't working, it never was and never will unless more concentrated man power is officially designated to it. It doesn't matter how many members there are on SW if 99% of their contribution effectively amounts to jack.

Like you have expressed I also think for it to work they need to designate small groups (3-4 people) that they trust from SW and/or SM forums too counties so as to take charge of player updates. Something along those lines.

However if they continue to let the database deteriorate as they have done for nearly two years already then there is only a few people that can really make a difference to help force there hand. Like I say most of the members on SW amount to jack and its the few "top scouts" such as yourself that help keep it ticking along on life support.

Only you and the other few top scouts that edit regularly can make a stand that will get their attention. If you and the others got in contact with each other and agreed not to help them with information for editing until they actually got things organised in a way that utilised the scouts to their potential, they would have to sit up and listen as the validity of the SW site would come into question.

People having been crying out over the state of the review system for years even pre SW yet nothing is ever mentioned by the powers that be regarding our concerns.

No one asked for single player yet that's what we will get regardless that no one cared for it.

Its worth noting that whilst the real life player database is deteriorating day by day and is now not only the worst it has ever been but also has its worst support to maintain it, it coincides with the introduction of their single player game with a real life database that becomes replaced by regenerated fictional players.

Is this a sign of whats to come?

Is this the reason they are happy to let the current database deteriorate?

A database problem (created by them)

A reaction to solve the problem (by the community)

The always intended solution (created by them)

I really hope not :(

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Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

I've read all of the posts within the link provided and also within this one. Many thanks to those that have taken the time to provide feedback. I will pass this on to the Soccer Wiki development team.

while you're at it, could you ask them to pay some attention to the admin forum on the soccer wiki site - seems to be no support there for the admins

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Riferimento: Re: Riferimento: Re: Riferimento: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

Mate' date=' don't misinterpret me: I didn't want to be harsh, and I'm not being pessimistic, just trying to keep it real, purposing feasible countermeasures.

I agree 200% with you that SW isn't working as it should. In the beginning (Jan, 2012) I was convinced that SW was a good improvement. Think about it: a 10k community could review even faster than we used to do in the golden age with periodic reviews by country. I made a constant effort to help it out in order to enhance their work, as I added/edited 3362 (just checked it out) players and counting since then (and more clubs, more stadiums, more pics, etc.).

Imo the best solution is easier than coding an external site and sniffing their infos: they'd run SW as it's supposed to run: Building up a serious board of specyalized admins for each country, and giving them the power of coordinate the community work.

Now, let's see how: the "pyramidal" structure of soccerwiki (users

So, there's a problem at the base of the pyramid (it maybe could be fixed banning more harshly malicious users, and giving some in-game prizes like SM credits to worthy users), but the main problem, I agree with you, is at the top of the pyramide. The "unknown board" is working from bad to worse: this summer I had to wait fortyeight (48!) days in order to see a bunch of players accepted.. and I'm an admin: so figure out a normal user, who have to wait my approval (or by any other admin) and the unknown board approval, and can only submit a couple of tickets a time. This would be so frustrating for everyone, and I guess we already lost a lot of good users because of SW DEVS were just playing around. They're too few, or too lazy, I don't know, but the actual Unknown Board composition is the real guilty in this "red chain" we're speaking about.

I already discussed with Steven about this, I reckon they're busy with singleplayer implementation, but I think they should prioritize the SW issue as the main issue we have. Nothing against with you, and hoping this thread should integrate my purpose with more creative (but feasible) implementations, because personally I'm also fed up with waiting some changes there... ;)[/quote']

Well Argala, I'll wait SM fix bigger SW problems at least. Words by SM Dev Steven seems seriously interested in it. So thank you to him and thanks to you. I hope to delete my "boycott" signature.

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Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

while you're at it' date=' could you ask them to pay some attention to the admin forum on the soccer wiki site - seems to be no support there for the admins[/quote']

How many rep points to you have to obtain to become an admin at SW? I have a lowly 183, i presume its 1000 odd?

Thanks in advance.

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Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

How many rep points to you have to obtain to become an admin at SW? I have a lowly 183' date=' i presume its 1000 odd?

Thanks in advance.[/quote']

They asked for volunteers when it launched. Don't think they have appointed anyone since

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Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

They asked for volunteers when it launched. Don't think they have appointed anyone since

Oh really? What happens if admins lose interest or no longer have the time to contribute? Surely they have to promote people on a regular basis.

Also how much power does an admin actually have?

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Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

Oh really? What happens if admins lose interest or no longer have the time to contribute? Surely they have to promote people on a regular basis.

Also how much power does an admin actually have?

They may bring in more but I've seen no obvious sign of it. The main powers for admins are the ability to add/alter more players than non-admins and our suggestions go straight to the hidden deciders. If we vote on a change proposed by someone else it goes straight to the panel then. Doesn't wait for the appropriate number of public votes. They did give jmh more powers than lthe rest of us. Not sure what they are though

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Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

They may bring in more but I've seen no obvious sign of it. The main powers for admins are the ability to add/alter more players than non-admins and our suggestions go straight to the hidden deciders. If we vote on a change proposed by someone else it goes straight to the panel then. Doesn't wait for the appropriate number of public votes. They did give jmh more powers than lthe rest of us. Not sure what they are though

Ok thank you for the information :)

Wonder who this jmh chap is, i presume he must also be on SM? would be interesting to hear his view on things.

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Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

Ok thank you for the information :)

Wonder who this jmh chap is' date=' i presume he must also be on SM? would be interesting to hear his view on things.[/quote']

He's a forumer but not sure how active he is now. Used to post on a lot of threads regarding soccerwiki etc. But as hois pro-soccerwili atance often met with hostility he may have stopped by now

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Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

He's a forumer but not sure how active he is now. Used to post on a lot of threads regarding soccerwiki etc. But as hois pro-soccerwili atance often met with hostility he may have stopped by now

He's still about. If you want to message him you can find him on my friends list I think which some would say is quite surprising considering I was one of the "hostiles".

I have nothing against JMH really and even voted for him to be forumer of the year some time ago as by a large I think he does talk sense. However when it came to SW his view just made no sense to me. That was two years ago nearly now and I still feel the same towards SW as I did then. Nearly two years on I would also say the deteriation of the database and the fact people are still complaining about the same concerns speaks for itself.

I too would be interested in hearing his view on SW/SM now but its highly unlikely he would post this from me asking and the mere fact I have just said I would be interested might make him feel less likely to come forward.

I'd be surprised if he wasn't aware of this thread, but a pm might be your best bet.

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Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

He's still about. If you want to message him you can find him on my friends list I think which some would say is quite surprising considering I was one of the "hostiles".

I have nothing against JMH really and even voted for him to be forumer of the year some time ago as by a large I think he does talk sense. However when it came to SW his view just made no sense to me. That was two years ago nearly now and I still feel the same towards SW as I did then. Nearly two years on I would also say the deteriation of the database and the fact people are still complaining about the same concerns speaks for itself.

I too would be interested in hearing his view on SW/SM now but its highly unlikely he would post this from me asking and the mere fact I have just said I would be interested might make him feel less likely to come forward.

I'd be surprised if he wasn't aware of this thread' date=' but a pm might be your best bet.[/quote']

Thank you for the info.

Just had a look at his account and snooped on some of the chats, i see he confirms that he does not have power over the ratings. I,ll try sending a message shortly to see if he would like to give his view on things.

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