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Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

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Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

They may bring in more but I've seen no obvious sign of it. The main powers for admins are the ability to add/alter more players than non-admins and our suggestions go straight to the hidden deciders. If we vote on a change proposed by someone else it goes straight to the panel then. Doesn't wait for the appropriate number of public votes. They did give jmh more powers than lthe rest of us. Not sure what they are though

I can clarify this copying/pasting an old message by SW Mark (not in charge anymore).

Hi Argala' date='

All edits made by people are passed onto this page for further approval. At the moment it's you and JMH who have access to this page. The idea is that the most trusted people have access to this page and can stop dodgy entries going through. All you have to do is press accept if you think the entry is correct and reject it if you think it's not. There is a suspend button but only press that if the user is trying to put himself into the wiki or the edit is malicious.

You also have the power to request a suspension by searching users and pressing the suspend button. If you need any more help or you find a bug with the page then let me know.

Regards,

Mark [/i']

This message is dated Sept, 2013, and I guess nothing changed since then.

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Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

I can clarify this copying/pasting an old message by SW Mark (not in charge anymore).

Hi Argala' date='

All edits made by people are passed onto this page for further approval. At the moment it's you and JMH who have access to this page. T[b']he idea is that the most trusted people have access to this page and can stop dodgy entries going through. All you have to do is press accept if you think the entry is correct and reject it if you think it's not.[/b] There is a suspend button but only press that if the user is trying to put himself into the wiki or the edit is malicious.

You also have the power to request a suspension by searching users and pressing the suspend button. If you need any more help or you find a bug with the page then let me know.

Regards,

Mark

This message is dated Sept, 2013, and I guess nothing changed since then.

Why don't they just add a few more trusted members and use the above to get ratings done too?

It would make things so much easier. If say 2/3 of the trusted members accept the proposed rating change submitted by the community then it gets the go ahead and updated on the database. If stupid ratings were getting through it would be spotted quickly and would be easy to identify who of the trusted few were responsible and be able to do something about it.

This isn't rocket science folks so why can't they do this? SW would not only become a good addition then but would actually work. I'd have more faith in the SW scouts getting ratings done than the current lot

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Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

I can clarify this copying/pasting an old message by SW Mark (not in charge anymore).

Hi Argala' date='

All edits made by people are passed onto this page for further approval. At the moment it's you and JMH who have access to this page. The idea is that the most trusted people have access to this page and can stop dodgy entries going through. All you have to do is press accept if you think the entry is correct and reject it if you think it's not. There is a suspend button but only press that if the user is trying to put himself into the wiki or the edit is malicious.

You also have the power to request a suspension by searching users and pressing the suspend button. If you need any more help or you find a bug with the page then let me know.

Regards,

Mark [/i']

This message is dated Sept, 2013, and I guess nothing changed since then.

Ok brilliant, thank you.

So basically its this mystery panel who decide and instigate player rating changes? Whoever they are i'm guessing they are busy working on the SM single player mode.

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Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

Why don't they just add a few more trusted members and use the above to get ratings done too?

It would make things so much easier. If say 2/3 of the trusted members accept the proposed rating change submitted by the community then it gets the go ahead and updated on the database. If stupid ratings were getting through it would be spotted quickly and would be easy to identify who of the trusted few were responsible and be able to do something about it.

This isn't rocket science folks so why can't they do this? SW would not only become a good addition then but would actually work. I'd have more faith in the SW scouts getting ratings done than the current lot

As far as i understand they don't have access to the vote's on players ratings, only on other edits, position, club, dob etc.

Could be very wrong though.

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Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

As far as i understand they don't have access to the vote's on players ratings' date=' only on other edits, position, club, dob etc.

Could be very wrong though.[/quote']

Yeah i know but what I'm saying is let them have access. :) They must have the database backed up from day to day right? in case something went wrong anyway so what have they got to lose in trying. It wouldn't be like one person having the final say with my proposal so its unlikely stupid stuff would get through and even if the trusted few decided to colude and go mental on the database it would be quickly noticed and they could just revert to the backup.

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Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

Yeah i know but what I'm saying is let them have access. :) They must have the database backed up from day to day right? in case something went wrong anyway so what have they got to lose in trying. It wouldn't be like one person having the final say with my proposal so its unlikely stupid stuff would get through and even if the trusted few decided to colude and go mental on the database it would be quickly noticed and they could just revert to the backup.

Ah sorry, i misread the beginning of your previous post.

Yes brilliant idea, simple and easy to implement. If they are trusted to allow all other changes through then why not the rating's? As you say in the highly unlikely scenario that they decide to go nuts and increase only players they have on SM then the problem can be resolved very easily.

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Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

Ah sorry' date=' i misread the beginning of your previous post.

Yes brilliant idea, simple and easy to implement. If they are trusted to allow all other changes through then why not the rating's? As you say in the highly unlikely scenario that they decide to go nuts and increase only players they have on SM then the problem can be resolved very easily.[/quote']

There's no reason why the current SW people currently doing it couldn't help make up the chosen few. If there was say 8-12 who could do it with 3 votes needed to pass a rating, things could get done in a timely fashion that i'm sure most would find acceptable. Even me :eek:

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Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

There's no reason why the current SW people currently doing it couldn't help make up the chosen few. If there was say 8-12 who could do it with 3 votes needed to pass a rating' date=' things could get done in a timely fashion that i'm sure most would find acceptable. Even me :eek:[/quote']

Hahaha :D:D

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Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

I boycotted SW over a year ago I think.

THEY STAY BOYCOTTED as they have ruined an exciting pleasurable game by making the player rating system, a slow paced snail of an instrument. It is a joke & they will never get it right (as it was about 4 years ago!)

I also protested & halved the number of teams & got rid of some of my game worlds. MANY MANY others left & will not return.

There is only one word for SW, a :-

FAILURE!!!

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Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

I boycotted SW over a year ago I think.

THEY STAY BOYCOTTED as they have ruined an exciting pleasurable game by making the player rating system' date=' a [b']slow paced snail[/b] of an instrument. It is a joke & they will never get it right (as it was about 4 years ago!)

I also protested & halved the number of teams & got rid of some of my game worlds. MANY MANY others left & will not return.

There is only one word for SW, a :-

FAILURE!!!

Yeah a lot have gone from what I have seen too from forum and in game. I had a look about a week ago at some of the original members of 87+ and quite a few don't play any more. I wonder how many SM lost introducing SW and how much it cost them financially? Someone sent me the public records of SM financial records some time ago. I don't think I kept it but I think it covered the year pre SW or there abouts and would have been interesting to compare it to their latest records to see their state of play.

I too stopped going on SW because of the hoops they introduced for people to jump through in order to actually do anything meaningful. It doesn't really work for the casual user as it is.

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Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

Tried to add Arnaud Lusamba who has played 9 games already this year and started 7 with 2 goals.

My add got rejected and now i can not attempt to add him again. I find this ridiculous given some of the recent additions to the game!

Who is actually voting on these and accepting/rejecting the players?

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Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

Have been directed here and would just like to clarify:

Yes, Argala and myself are the admins on SW & No we cannot change ratings.

Soccerwiki is basically there to populate the SM database, which IMO does a very good job of, but its still glitchy even for us admin and SW Scouts. To call it a failure just shows that you have completely failed to grasp what it is there for.

Finally, if you all boycotted SW, it would probably actually help the cause.

Hundreds of attempted edits EVERY DAY, do you not think you would be clogging up the system to a grinding halt? On top of SW users input, they also do their own additions, for a fact i can tell you lots of new players arent inputted by SW users becuase myself and Argala can see them. I never saw Madger or Milinkovic-Savic nor any of the Austrian or Danish additions from today!

Since they introduced the account limitations it has made it so much easier to look after, but unfortunately the damage is still there from when it opened in 2012 and was horrifically abused.

The player count is approaching 75K, and as you saw there are still players retired in 'real life' out there on the database that can be found if you manually input the player ID in the browser.

Issues like these still need ironing out but when its a free website, just how much resources will go into SW?

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Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

Tried to add Arnaud Lusamba who has played 9 games already this year and started 7 with 2 goals.

My add got rejected and now i can not attempt to add him again. I find this ridiculous given some of the recent additions to the game!

Who is actually voting on these and accepting/rejecting the players?

again, never saw this come through so SW may of rejected it due to an error, but i couldnt tell you why.

I have inputted him myself just now for you.

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Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

;2995824']Have been directed here and would just like to clarify:

Yes' date=' Argala and myself are the admins on SW & No we cannot change ratings.[/b']

Finally, if you all boycotted SW, it would probably actually help the cause.

Well, plainly there's the answer then....

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Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

;2995828']again' date=' never saw this come through so SW may of rejected it due to an error, but i couldnt tell you why.

I have inputted him myself just now for you.[/quote']

Many thanks for that, very much appreciate it :)

I was unaware that it was just two of you as admin on there. It does seem like an under staffed position for such a large database of players already, not too mention the vast amount of players coming through that are not on the database.

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Riferimento: Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

;2995828']again' date=' never saw this come through so SW may of rejected it due to an error, but i couldnt tell you why.

I have inputted him myself just now for you.[/quote']

When I was a SW member I tryed to change Gonalons skills and my purpose has been rejected first: you answered to me that Gonalons SW skills could not be the same like other data sites. But when I complained for Calum Chambers position change, you and someother forumer told me that it was to refresh Calum's positions like other data sites.

:mad:

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Re: Riferimento: Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

When I was a SW member I tryed to change Gonalons skills and my purpose has been rejected first: you answered to me that Gonalons SW skills could not be the same like other data sites. But when I complained for Calum Chambers position change' date=' you and someother forumer told me that it was to refresh Calum's positions like other data sites.

:mad:[/quote']

If i have to be sincere, one of the first improvements we've to do is that a normal user shouldn't be able to edit Gonalons, or any top player neither. I read a lot about the good ol' days before SW. Does anyone remember how it's work? I do, and you couldn't add/edit any player whose rating was higher than 86, and anyone of the (50/60) world top clubs players.Not even a 78 rated. So, no Gonalons edit was allowed, and not even Chambers. Now, maybe your purpose was legitimate. But, as I can see all the edit tickets, trust me when I'm saying that the 99% of malicious edit/adding (I'd say 100%, but the 1% are morons who are try to add theirself to the DB in some unknown clubs) are related to these clubs, or their players.

Without this spam, SW would have work way better.

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Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

;2995824']Have been directed here and would just like to clarify:

Yes' date=' Argala and myself are the admins on SW & No we cannot change ratings.[/b']

Soccerwiki is basically there to populate the SM database, which IMO does a very good job of, but its still glitchy even for us admin and SW Scouts. To call it a failure just shows that you have completely failed to grasp what it is there for.

Finally, if you all boycotted SW, it would probably actually help the cause.

Hundreds of attempted edits EVERY DAY, do you not think you would be clogging up the system to a grinding halt? On top of SW users input, they also do their own additions, for a fact i can tell you lots of new players arent inputted by SW users becuase myself and Argala can see them. I never saw Madger or Milinkovic-Savic nor any of the Austrian or Danish additions from today!

Since they introduced the account limitations it has made it so much easier to look after, but unfortunately the damage is still there from when it opened in 2012 and was horrifically abused.

The player count is approaching 75K, and as you saw there are still players retired in 'real life' out there on the database that can be found if you manually input the player ID in the browser.

Issues like these still need ironing out but when its a free website, just how much resources will go into SW?

From this it sounds like you are saying SW works because its job is to populate the database. Which I would agree it does do a good job of populating the database. Adding players is the easy bit though its maintaining what is already there that is a concern.

But is it not there to get ratings looked at also? (albeit at the moment from behind closed doors) It looks at other details that might be wrong like wrong club, position, height weight, name spelling etc so isn't ratings also part of its remit.

If not then yes SW probably isn't doing to bad but if ratings do come from within the SW resources then it is failing.

Who if not SW are responsible for ratings as SM have said they take their data from SW?

SW really isn't helping itself in the way it is setup to work/fail but ultimately the blame for the mess the database is in must stop at SM door as its their choice to use this inaccurate data.

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Re: Riferimento: Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

Without this spam' date=' SW would have work way better.[/quote']

True but you can't give a child matches to play with then blame the child when they burn your house down.

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Riferimento: Re: Riferimento: Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

If i have to be sincere' date=' one of the first improvements we've to do is that a normal user shouldn't be able to edit Gonalons, or any top player neither. I read a lot about the good ol' days before SW. Does anyone remember how it's work? I do, and you couldn't add/edit any player whose rating was higher than 86, and anyone of the (50/60) world top clubs players.Not even a 78 rated. So, no Gonalons edit was allowed, and not even Chambers. Now, maybe your purpose was legitimate. But, as I can see all the edit tickets, trust me when I'm saying that the 99% of malicious edit/adding (I'd say 100%, but the 1% are morons who are try to add theirself to the DB in some unknown clubs) are related to these clubs, or their players.

Without this spam, SW would have work way better.[/quote']

I deleted my SW account, so I don't know how SW is working now. I remeber my change suggestion of other two 90 rated players like Dzagoev and Belhanda (CM position added) and other minor players, but I remember lot of rejections too that have been approved some days after because of different user suggestion (with less rated players sometimes).

Now I see a lot of player position changes (with abuse of some positions: M©,OM(RLC) - D(RC),DM© - OM(RLC),F(RL) have been incredibly increased last 6-10 months).

I complained a very early Calum Chambers pos change from D,DM,M,OM® to D(RC),DM© when it could be better to add new positions without deleting old: there are a lot of player with 6+ position so a much more logical solution could be D,DM(RC),M,OM® or D,DM(RC),M® for him. But it hasn't been. So I cannot understand how and why it is possible to have a very high number of shocking player position changes (and sometimes ratings -Giovinco & Aubameyang are 90 rp both-) approved. No answers.

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Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

This thread is possibly the most important in terms of trying to improve things. It's really important that this is kept active and near the top of the forum. I have read with much interest all the posts and its good to know that the moderaters are listening.

I am so frustrated at the moment at the lack of ratings structure. Could somebody from SM or SW or moderaters on this board please explain to us how the current system works? Who choses which players have a rating change? Please understand, i am not on a witch hunt, i just genuinely would like to know how it works. Once we know this, perhaps we could suggest some much needed improvements.

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Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

Who choses which players have a rating change? Please understand' date=' i am not on a witch hunt, i just genuinely would like to know how it works. Once we know this, perhaps we could suggest some much needed improvements.[/quote']

This is the main point. I can only tell you that SW, since his first day, was NEVER about ratings, at least for his visible users, not-dev-admins included . Admins can edit or create any info of a player, club, coach, referee but ratings. Being precise, in the beginning (2012) there used to be a little window where you can "Suggest rating changes"(+5/-5): was never been active, and had never effect. I cannot even suggest a player rating when I'm submitting his creation, so, answering to 87+ reply, I can state all Ratings stuff is a SM issue, as they're the only people who have acces to that.

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Re: Vast improvement of Soccerwiki needed

This is the main point. I can only tell you that SW' date=' since his first day, was NEVER about ratings, at least for his visible users, not-dev-admins included . Admins can edit or create any info of a player, club, coach, referee but ratings. Being precise, in the beginning (2012) there used to be a little window where you can "Suggest rating changes"(+5/-5): was never been active, and had never effect. I cannot even suggest a player rating when I'm submitting his creation, [b']so, answering to 87+ reply, I can state all Ratings stuff is a SM issue, as they're the only people who have acces to that.[/b]
;2996178']Couldnt of put it any better.

Firstly thanks for the replys.

This was not the impression that I and i'm sure others have been led to believe though. The impression given from dev's in the past and JMH has been that SW is now responsible for the database of SM. At no point that I have seen has any one ever come out and said that SW is NOT responsible for ratings and it is still in the hands of SM. If there had there wouldn't have been any handbags 2 years ago as there would have been nothing to argue about over SW and you wouldn't have people to this day complaining about the same thing. Whilst ratings have never been votable on SW (ignoring +5 -5 thing that had no use) we or at least I have been under the impression that it was still people behind the scenes at SW who were doing the rating reviews.

My main personal problem with SW has always been from a ratings point of view that the ratings are not getting done quick enough compared to the past as well as the concern the 'new' scatter gun approach is rewarding some players within a team whilst others can go untouched for months on end. Some countries now barely get a look in.

Please can a mod/dev post on this thread stating once and for all who it is (SM or SW) that is responsible for updating player ratings so that there isn't any confusion over this.

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