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Tut Tut Baza. You have been told now. Now toddle along and have some fun like the good man says.;)

Not too many quotes on 250 player squads. You know Baza. Youve got one of the best squads in one of the top Gold championships yet this guy with a 250 squad and a 9000 capacity stadium pays out more in wages. I think the guys onto something. Keep stacking up those risers.:P

I don geddit. I have 166 players in G1' date=' 41 of which are seniors/ the rest is yout, wage bill is £2.4m and odds. It's not a problem as the stadium is massive (and I have erm £920m in the bank).

I get the bit about smaller stadiums being "more real, tougher" and so on John, but that doesn't explain why (with THE STRONGEST) I have a squad including the following yet can never ever sell the stadium out. Shirley the realistic effect would be that if the below stars were playing for lowly THE STRONGEST then the fans would show up? Also I'm in Division 1 and regularly challenge for titles. [TABLE=class: sortable-onload-4-6r rowstyle-highl no-arrow tabledataplain"]

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[TD=class: left]MESSI, Lionel[/TD]

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[TD=class: left]SUÁREZ, Luis[/TD]

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[TD=class: left]ROONEY, Wayne[/TD]

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[TR=class: highl]

[TD=class: left]ÖZIL, Mesut[/TD]

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[TD=class: left]SÁNCHEZ, Alexis[/TD]

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[TD=class: left]RODRÍGUEZ, James[/TD]

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[TD=class: left]MARCHISIO, Claudio[/TD]

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[TR=class: highl]

[TD=class: left]MASCHERANO, Javier[/TD]

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[TD=class: left]HUMMELS, Mats[/TD]

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[TR=class: highl]

[TD=class: left]COURTOIS, Thibaut[/TD]

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[TD=class: left]MATIĆ, Nemanja[/TD]

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[TR=class: highl]

[TD=class: left]TERRY, John[/TD]

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[TD=class: left]PASTORE, Javier[/TD]

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[TD=class: left]COUTINHO, Philippe[/TD]

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[TD=class: left]ERIKSEN, Christian[/TD]

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[TR=class: highl]

[TD=class: left]HENDERSON, Jordan[/TD]

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[TD=class: left]THIAGO, Alcántara[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=class: highl]

[TD=class: left]CAHILL, Gary

[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

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Yes if a smaller club does well and gets lots of good players then they will struggle to compete with a big club as both clubs have the same wage bill but the bigger club will have the bigger stadium. But this is how the game is and we don't want to change this. It more difficult being a smaller club with a smaller stadium but that's the fun of the game!

Whaaaaaat?

So why don't set up a GW with 20 Barça, 20 ManU, 20 Bayern and so and so?

If it's more difficult you are saying manager should only manage a big club. So you are saying each GW should have few managers... So what's the fun to have 5-10% of managed club per GW only?

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Whaaaaaat?

So why don't set up a GW with 20 Barça' date=' 20 ManU, 20 Bayern and so and so?

If it's more difficult you are saying manager should only manage a big club. So you are saying each GW should have few managers... So what's the fun to have 5-10% of managed club per GW only?[/quote']

All in good time Anton. Phase 1 of the changes is to weed out the last surviving small club managers. Phase 2 will be to fill Gold Championships with a Division for Barcelona, a division for Bayern Munich, a division for Mannchester United....and so on. Its where all the revenue. Small club managers the rides over Im afraid.

the team with the most cash will be able to bid the most. This doesn't always mean the bigger clubs, many clubs who don't have great squads are cash rich but can't buy players. This will help them.

changing higher rated players to have highers wages actually helps smaller clubs with smaller stadiums.

John seems to be the small clubs champion. Is this music to anyone else's ears?

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Just from reading the last few pages it's abudently clear that the SM team are simply not interested in the opinions of their customers....

The issue of stadium builiding (of which I can state the VAST majority of players want) should be less than a 2 second discussion, ye want, ye have... It should really be that simple, it's a football managment game, stadiums increase all the time, hell even take West Ham! Their move will dramatically increase their stadium capacity.. it happens in RL SM, get on board....

The main issue I cannot get my head around is why exactly SM are saying no to it? No genuine reason has been presented, it gives the smaller clubs something to strive for, something to build (pardon the pun!)

So I ask, in simple terms, just why??

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Just from reading the last few pages it's abudently clear that the SM team are simply not interested in the opinions of their customers....

The issue of stadium builiding (of which I can state the VAST majority of players want) should be less than a 2 second discussion' date=' ye want, ye have... It should really be that simple, it's a football managment game, stadiums increase all the time, hell even take West Ham! Their move will dramatically increase their stadium capacity.. it happens in RL SM, get on board....

The main issue I cannot get my head around is why exactly SM are saying no to it? No genuine reason has been presented, it gives the smaller clubs something to strive for, something to build (pardon the pun!)

So I ask, in simple terms, just why??[/quote']

It's a bit complicated to introduce if you look at it from a certain stand point. So first of all, i'd say have a cap of around 40k at which you can't expand anymore?

Secondly.... as has been stated earlier, the clubs don't even sell out their small stadiums, even if the manager is being successful, which is a huge problem with the system. I believe this

needs to be fixed. I had this team... [h=3]Esteghlal F.C[/h]

i believe it was... it was a gameworld based off little known teams, this team had a huge stadium, i had lots of high rated players and was a title contender everytime, but barely ever filled over 50% from game to game.

So this needs to be addressed, I think attendance should increase over a few seasons of success (top half finish, top 4, top 2, winning the league/cup etc = different % increase per season)

So perhaps after 2 seasons you may have a big stadium with a 75% fill ? and continued success will eventually lead to something closer to 100%

Similarly, little success should mean less attendance, Barca, for example will still get 80k + attendance if they're relegated. Shouldn't be too drastic of a change because it's a huge club, but there are the so called fickle fans, so this could drop to 65-70k perhaps? Still a good attendance, but not quite still dominant.

Just some thoughts.

Is no one as excited as I am for the new match engine? Haven't see much talk about it here. I believe it will be introduced to the test world at the end of the month?

I've applied for Macclesfield Town a few days now with no reply btw. Am i supposed to get a passcode or something? idk =)

Excited for all the changes though.

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Ive sat and watched until now and im still reserving some judgement for a little while until we see how the economy develops. However i have a couple of questions and also a few things id like to note as improvements.

Offers Rejected: This has happened to em a lot. Example Wesley Hoedt. LAzio have plenty of players. my team is ranked well enough for him to sign, and the usual reason this happened in the past was due to valuations changing. As that cannot happen now i am very curious as to why this is happening very frequently compared to before?

no CV - All players rated the same. I actually like it. For any player in the GW players market value is the same, which tbh is the same as real life mostly. To a degree a Burnley might sell an Ings for more than Pool might sell a Balotelli but overall i think this is the correct decision. It measns scouting risers is the a game now it always shoudl have been. I have made a power Gateshead form the smallest squad values ever in 2 seasons by buying say Campagnaro for 3M from Italy and selling for 10m due to my CV value. many times have build monster budgets like this but really it should be done buy rewarding risers not shrewd business buy/sell of older players from big clubs with low cv.

New Values and wages for players. Stevens post about how the tv money works seems legit, but thats a wait and see so no comment yet. I have reservations that a team like Burnley would never in a million years be able to get a messi. Now IRL that is mad accurate so no qualms, but i think alot of people play this becasue anything is possible. Again id like to see more economy before this. discussion

Have to agree with the masses here that stadiums should go up faster/more TO A DEGREE. i think the average size should be increased steven. i agree with the warping and thge points you made re other leagues ticket sales, but its a fantasy game. balance is important but i think the average stadium size one can cap to in growth should be a littel higher than ther RL average of that league. You dont really expect noone in a portuguese setup to but all the 92+s casue realistically it isnt affordable. SO i think fun/fantasy demands a little boost here (not Grimsby Camp Nou as people have said) but a boost nonetheless. Again in real life success doesnt mean more fans necesarrily. If a Gibraltan league won the UCL next season it would be limited in fan base by A)nationality and also it takes genrations for these succcesses to enthrall the kids and make them fans. New money club like City has nowhere near the support bas of Arsenalo, Liverpool or United, because go back 10-20 years when kids are 'choosing' thier team City didnt exist (lol ofc they did u get my point) Still i think again this is fantasy so clubs should be close to filling whatever stadium they have within reason if they are playing well.

My biggest nagging qualm at the moment is the values created for 'potential talent' or similar as you described steven. No offence to you and your team, but i dont feel happy that you are qualified to decide who is the next big thing or not, and by that i mean no disrespect. I am no better qualified, nor is anyone o t he forums. If you want to give a little juice to younger players like in the single player becasue youth sells i am A-OK witht hat taken into accoutn in the value calculations. But if PLayer A) and Player B) are both 19yo Left backs rated 85 i dont want to see one rated higher becasue he is hyped, or becuase you feel like he will become better, it kind of defeats the purpose of hunting for talents (which i think is encouraged no due to regualted CV as i said earlier) If you jack the price of someone who is likely to become a better player (and again i have a fear here that you arent an expert to predict that)

So far thats the only thing i am against. everything else seems positive or i am reserving judgement instead of joining the lynch mob.

Cam

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Ive sat and watched until now and im still reserving some judgement for a little while until we see how the economy develops. However i have a couple of questions and also a few things id like to note as improvements.

Offers Rejected: This has happened to em a lot. Example Wesley Hoedt. LAzio have plenty of players. my team is ranked well enough for him to sign' date=' and the usual reason this happened in the past was due to valuations changing. As that cannot happen now i am very curious as to why this is happening very frequently compared to before?

no CV - All players rated the same. I actually like it. For any player in the GW players market value is the same, which tbh is the same as real life mostly. To a degree a Burnley might sell an Ings for more than Pool might sell a Balotelli but overall i think this is the correct decision. It measns scouting risers is the a game now it always shoudl have been. I have made a power Gateshead form the smallest squad values ever in 2 seasons by buying say Campagnaro for 3M from Italy and selling for 10m due to my CV value. many times have build monster budgets like this but really it should be done buy rewarding risers not shrewd business buy/sell of older players from big clubs with low cv.

New Values and wages for players. Stevens post about how the tv money works seems legit, but thats a wait and see so no comment yet. I have reservations that a team like Burnley would never in a million years be able to get a messi. Now IRL that is mad accurate so no qualms, but i think alot of people play this becasue anything is possible. Again id like to see more economy before this. discussion

Have to agree with the masses here that stadiums should go up faster/more TO A DEGREE. i think the average size should be increased steven. i agree with the warping and thge points you made re other leagues ticket sales, but its a fantasy game. balance is important but i think the average stadium size one can cap to in growth should be a littel higher than ther RL average of that league. You dont really expect noone in a portuguese setup to but all the 92+s casue realistically it isnt affordable. SO i think fun/fantasy demands a little boost here (not Grimsby Camp Nou as people have said) but a boost nonetheless. Again in real life success doesnt mean more fans necesarrily. If a Gibraltan league won the UCL next season it would be limited in fan base by A)nationality and also it takes genrations for these succcesses to enthrall the kids and make them fans. New money club like City has nowhere near the support bas of Arsenalo, Liverpool or United, because go back 10-20 years when kids are 'choosing' thier team City didnt exist (lol ofc they did u get my point) Still i think again this is fantasy so clubs should be close to filling whatever stadium they have within reason if they are playing well.

My biggest nagging qualm at the moment is the values created for 'potential talent' or similar as you described steven. No offence to you and your team, but i dont feel happy that you are qualified to decide who is the next big thing or not, and by that i mean no disrespect. I am no better qualified, nor is anyone o t he forums. If you want to give a little juice to younger players like in the single player becasue youth sells i am A-OK witht hat taken into accoutn in the value calculations. But if PLayer A) and Player B) are both 19yo Left backs rated 85 i dont want to see one rated higher becasue he is hyped, or becuase you feel like he will become better, it kind of defeats the purpose of hunting for talents (which i think is encouraged no due to regualted CV as i said earlier) If you jack the price of someone who is likely to become a better player (and again i have a fear here that you arent an expert to predict that)

So far thats the only thing i am against. everything else seems positive or i am reserving judgement instead of joining the lynch mob.

Cam[/quote']

I think Cam has talked a lot of sense here. I’ve been making notes as the GW develops with the intention of posting some suggestions in here or at the google hangout meetings next week, but Cam has covered virtually everything I had noted down to discuss, especially the one about star youth players and how its judged and by who.

I’ll not go over his points again, because I agree totally with his comments, but other areas I think need looking at are.

Injuries are still too long, it’s not uncommon to lose players for 6 weeks (which is actually 7 after their fitness needs to recover) or more.

Bidding on players still needs a decision to be made as to how it will work now that all teams value players the same. There’s been several discussions round this all with their on merit so I won’t go over that again here.

Soccer Wiki – I don’t feel it works very well. There’s a number problems with it, and any mails to them appear to be ignored, (I’ve never received a reply to any mail I’ve sent them). Maybe not totally on topic for this thread, but certainly something I’ll be bringing up next week because its bloody rubbish.

The new match engine I’m really looking forward to though.

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It measns scouting risers is the a game now it always shoudl have been.

Aye for you Cam. Not for everyone. Personally I don't have the time in my life to spend hours finding unknown players on wikipedia then checking to see when they will be added. I have a job and a family and Soccer Manager is I'm afraid only the third most important ting in my life!

There are lots of reasons to love this game. Let's embrace them all instead of trying to dictate what you tink it should be about.

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Credit where it due. Removing the player unavailible option plus the minimum fee. Thats a good move.

Awful move. You are not going to have any better chance of signing the player in question if the manager has no desire to sell & just a load more inbox messages. Imagine in a new game world... Just annoying.

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Aye for you Cam. Not for everyone. Personally I don't have the time in my life to spend hours finding unknown players on wikipedia then checking to see when they will be added. I have a job and a family and Soccer Manager is I'm afraid only the third most important ting in my life!

There are lots of reasons to love this game. Let's embrace them all instead of trying to dictate what you tink it should be about.

I too have a wife and Job Baza, i meant this in regards to the other option to grow a small team which is where you buy players at low CV from say Madrid who basically double in value they second your team has them due to a higher CV. Ive made a few beastly sides out of minnows doing this, I just think it would be more rewarding to buy risers instead of this very simple tecnique.

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Would be great to be able to search players at "Unmanaged Clubs" the way we can tick a box to search for "Free Agents". Save some time that.

NOt sure about this, yes it is convenient but is it too convenient that it becomes downright lazy... Id like it but then all i and my rivals in a GC have to do is 'search unmanaged' and boom i think its too simple IMO. It did make me think of another thing thats been asked for before and i have no idea why it isnt done. CHECKBOX loan listing en masse. Nothing worse than season ends and you have to go through and manually LnL 25 players. or 10. or 50. why cant we got tick tick tick add to loan list.

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I'll just give my views on attendances and stadium building. I've been in a very old Gold Championship since day one. I'd say i've probably got one of the best squads in the Game World. During my time i've won:

  • Charity Shield x5
  • Division 2 x1
  • Division 1 x6
  • Spanish Cup x5
  • Spanish Shield x4
  • SMFA Cup x3
  • SMFA Shield x1
  • SMFA Super Cup x2

Not a bad trophy cabinet and i'd say not many can match it in the Game World. So what am I getting at? In the first few seasons my stadium went from a 6,000 capacity to 24,000. However, my average attendance is only 17,759 despite what i've already mentioned. My club isn't in debt as i'm quite shrewd in the transfer market. Surely a successful club like mine should have a larger stadium and see it packed week in week out whilst i'm successful? That's what I as a manager want to see. So i'm on your side not against you.

What I want to see and what i'm going to put forward is for attendances to be more dynamic. As some have suggested they should go up / down dependent on your success. As you rise through the divisions they should gradually increase to the league's average. I also think you should have the chance to expand your stadium in certain circumstances using your clubs money. Not every club should be able to do this as it should be dependent on a few factors for example your success, current stadium size, current division etc. However, I don't want to see a club with an already large stadium expand it as that'll just negate my stadium expansion in terms of closing the gap.

I'm having a meeting early next week with the Devs who are working on SM Worlds and this is what i'm going to put forward.

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One possible idea - to tie attendances in with optional expansion - what if any club whose average crowd over the last 2 season's was within 10% of capacity, can add an up to an extra 5% of their current capacity to their stadium at a cost of £X per seat at the end of the season, but if performances and crowds drop(say to below 75% of capacity over 2 seasons) the chairman will reduce capacity by anything up to the original capacity - with minimal or no refund(so expansion becomes a calculated risk)

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Aye for you Cam. Not for everyone. Personally I don't have the time in my life to spend hours finding unknown players on wikipedia then checking to see when they will be added. I have a job and a family and Soccer Manager is I'm afraid only the third most important ting in my life!

There are lots of reasons to love this game. Let's embrace them all instead of trying to dictate what you tink it should be about.

Im with you Baza. These changes will keep the obsessives happy but the guys that choose have a smidgen of a life outside of SM are just going to leave. Not enough effort is being made to make this accesible to all. I mean people can do all the scouting they want for the next new thing. Its all for nothing when Real Madrid comes along with 900 mil and adds this bright new thing to their other 200 + bright new things. Managers have said to me'Have you tried the Thai leagues? You never know.' Cheers mate but I think I'll take a dog for a walk.

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I too have a wife and Job Baza' date=' i meant this in regards to the other option to grow a small team which is where you buy players at low CV from say Madrid who basically double in value they second your team has them due to a higher CV. Ive made a few beastly sides out of minnows doing this, I just think it would be more rewarding to buy risers instead of this very simple tecnique.

[/quote']

Im with you Baza. These changes will keep the obsessives happy but the guys that choose have a smidgen of a life outside of SM are just going to leave. Not enough effort is being made to make this accesible to all. I mean people can do all the scouting they want for the next new thing. Its all for nothing when Real Madrid comes along with 900 mil and adds this bright new thing to their other 200 + bright new things. Managers have said to me'Have you tried the Thai leagues? You never know.' Cheers mate but I think I'll take a dog for a walk.

I'm mostly with Cam on this one. Scouting real life risers has always been one the fundamental aspects of Soccer Manager as opposed to the numerous other online management games out there which are better set up in their own right than SM, but use made up players.

That said, I do think it’s only fair that if Gateshead (as the example used previously) buy a player for 3 million quid, they then have the option of selling him on later for more than that, which I think was Baza’s concern. Yes I do think the game should be accessible to all, but I also strongly feel that with this game you really should be getting out what you’re putting in, meaning that those that do scout a lot should be getting those future stars and risers more often than a player that logs in once a day for half an hour.

Wrongun does make a point about big teams hoovering up any potential stars, so might I make an off the wall suggestion here, and remove the new players database area. That way lazy managers can’t just look at that and pick up every 16 year old that gets added. Obvious downside to that for those of us who are waiting on specific players to be added having to search manually every few days to see if they're now there, but I think I might still prefer that (I know in one of my league teams wait to see who I’m bidding on from the new players DB, and bid over the top of me). It won’t stop players showing up in searches so keeps it just as accessible to managers with limited time, but cuts out some of the laziness and might help player hoggers because I doubt many teams with 250 players in the squad have managers who’ve scouted every single one of them. Plus the new squad cap that’s almost certainly coming in will prevent some of that anyway.

Oh, and Japan’s better for risers than Thailand…

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That said' date=' I do think it’s only fair that if Gateshead (as the example used previously) buy a player for 3 million quid, they then have the option of selling him on later for more than that, which I think was Baza’s concern. Yes I do think the game should be accessible to all, but I also strongly feel that with this game you really should be getting out what you’re putting in, meaning that those that do scout a lot should be getting those future stars and risers more often than a player that logs in once a day for half an hour.[/quote']

That's always been the case in that you can get more success the more time that you dedicate. For example i'd like to think that I know the Spanish leagues inside out so have built my club from an average of 76 rateds to what it is now through clever purchases from the Spanish market. I've had good success with this method and continue to do so.

Wrongun does make a point about big teams hoovering up any potential stars' date=' so might I make an off the wall suggestion here, and remove the new players database area. That way lazy managers can’t just look at that and pick up every 16 year old that gets added. Obvious downside to that for those of us who are waiting on specific players to be added having to search manually every few days to see if they're now there, but I think I might still prefer that (I know in one of my league teams wait to see who I’m bidding on from the new players DB, and bid over the top of me). It won’t stop players showing up in searches so keeps it just as accessible to managers with limited time, but cuts out some of the laziness and might help player hoggers because I doubt many teams with 250 players in the squad have managers who’ve scouted every single one of them. Plus the new squad cap that’s almost certainly coming in will prevent some of that anyway.[/quote']

I've been suggesting removing the New Players page for a good number of years internally but I feel like a lone wolf on this one.

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I've been suggesting removing the New Players page for a good number of years internally but I feel like a lone wolf on this one.

New Players page is not the problem. Problem is squad cap. Me and few others are like a lone wolves in the universe. Soccer Wiki users know who's entered in the DB. If you delete New Players page, they could pick new players more easiest with less auction sales than now bacause they know Who and When a new player is added. Think about it.

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I'm mostly with Cam on this one. Scouting real life risers has always been one the fundamental aspects of Soccer Manager as opposed to the numerous other online management games out there which are better set up in their own right than SM' date=' but use made up players.

That said, I do think its only fair that if Gateshead (as the example used previously) buy a player for 3 million quid, they then have the option of selling him on later for more than that, which I think was Bazas concern. Yes I do think the game should be accessible to all, but I also strongly feel that with this game you really should be getting out what youre putting in, meaning that those that do scout a lot should be getting those future stars and risers more often than a player that logs in once a day for half an hour.

Wrongun does make a point about big teams hoovering up any potential stars, so might I make an off the wall suggestion here, and remove the new players database area. That way lazy managers cant just look at that and pick up every 16 year old that gets added. Obvious downside to that for those of us who are waiting on specific players to be added having to search manually every few days to see if they're now there, but I think I might still prefer that (I know in one of my league teams wait to see who Im bidding on from the new players DB, and bid over the top of me). It wont stop players showing up in searches so keeps it just as accessible to managers with limited time, but cuts out some of the laziness and might help player hoggers because I doubt many teams with 250 players in the squad have managers whove scouted every single one of them. Plus the new squad cap thats almost certainly coming in will prevent some of that anyway.

Oh, and Japans better for risers than Thailand

[/quote']

Dont want to sound buddy uddy with Alu here but i think he nailed it. The game should 100% be accessible to those with limited time. But those willing and or able to put more time into the game should be rewarded ultimately its a gmae the more you play the more you acheive. Just like anything in life. Dont be upset with people putting more hours in doing better at it as you probably have a wonderful family or a better job etc etc :D

100% agree with removal of new players page. That way i have to keep an eye out for when say Dan Crowley is added. Instead of seeing 5 new players added and hen checking them out, i can be rewarded for already having that knowledge. Will stop Herp a derp Madrids hoovering every Milan - Bayern- Barca -Chelsea etc talent added unless they ACTUALLY know who they are looking for. New player page should stay actually now that im writing this i think we should all be able to see what you are adding and people who dont know should still get the opportunity to see but lets have a 3(?) day grace period before players show up there? Headstart to those actively waiting for certain player, rather than hoovering en masse.

I agree with a squad cap but its really a minorty of times i see that be a huge problem and it is costly so iuts less of a concern than the aforementioned problem of stoioping the hoovering, it makes the cap less meaningful. Still i cant see why a 150 Cap shouldnt at least be put in. I think that is the top end of whatr is madly unrealistic. AS ive saiud befoer 100 is unrealistic but its a FANTASY GAME, so there must be a little bit of unrealism to a degree. Set one at 150 and we can at least start there and reel in to 120 and so on if it seems necessary after implementing other measures.

Cam

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