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Players position


Jasenjin
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I'd like to talk about player positions - CB/DM, CM/AM, F/AM, F/W,...etc.

I know what's the idea behind that, but, to be honest, I really can't see no practical use.

I mean, I don't know does anyone has the same experience as I do, but, pretty much, all of my versatile players are literally useless when they play in their secondary position... so, my question is... what is the purpose of that, if they can play well only in their first choice position?

I mean, let's take LB/LM player as an example... if you play him as a winger, there is no way that he'll average more then 6.5 Av. Pf. (???) if that much. Same if we play LM/LB as a wingback. Or, if we take F/W playing a winger as an example, their Av. Pf. ratings are going to be even worse - 6.0 the most(???)

I had a LM/F who was just brilliant as a left winger for me. Then his position changed to F/W and now, that exact same player in that exact same left winger position where he was brilliant prior to position change can't average more then 6.0 (???).

I mean, seriously, something has to be done regarding this issue, 'cause those players have double positions for a reason. Now, don't get me wrong, I understand that they can't play as good in their secondary position as they can play in their primary position, but, seriously... I mean, I'm using Lionel Messi as a AM (#10) in 4-3-2-1 formation and he just can't go over 7 Av. Pf. (???) for a two consecutive seasons (???) Do I have to say anything else? What's even more absurd is that that is actually his natural position.

I don't know... What do you, guys, think about this? Can this be fixed somehow?

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Re: Players position

first of all, ur problem with wingers is simple. a LM cant play on the wing, else he wud be a W! so if ur playin an F/W in left mid, u mite aswel go the whole hog and put ur forwards at the back!

and ur situation with messi, good rating doesnt necessarily = good performances, u should be able to get the best out of them with good tactics.

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Re: Players position

first of all' date=' ur problem with wingers is simple. a LM cant play on the wing, else he wud be a W! so if ur playin an F/W in left mid, u mite aswel go the whole hog and put ur forwards at the back!

and ur situation with messi, good rating doesnt necessarily = good performances, u should be able to get the best out of them with good tactics.[/quote']

1: An LM can play on the wing

2: The guy is spot on, in most cases players are useless in their secondary positions. Prime example, I played Dani Alves (RB/RM) as a wing back in a 5-3-2, on paper the perfect position for him, and he never scored above 7, I ended up playing him as No2 in a back 3 and he was fine, which isn't right........some are much better, CM/RMS play ok out wide and I find that F/AM's are ok behind a CF, but then LM/LB's are useless at full back, CB/DMS are useless in midfield, I could go on :D

Needs sorting B)

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Re: Players position

1: An LM can play on the wing

2: The guy is spot on' date=' in most cases players are useless in their secondary positions. Prime example, I played Dani Alves (RB/RM) as a wing back in a 5-3-2, on paper the perfect position for him, and he never scored above 7, I ended up playing him as No2 in a back 3 and he was fine, which isn't right........some are much better, CM/RMS play ok out wide and I find that F/AM's are ok behind a CF, but then LM/LB's are useless at full back, CB/DMS are useless in midfield, I could go on :D

Needs sorting B)[/quote']

mate for god sake, wingers cannot play left mid!!

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Re: Players position

they prob can do a job there i dont dispute that' date=' but what im sayin is, at the end of the day, that is not there position[/quote']

SIMAO, Sabrosa W/AM 28 93 79 Superb £7.9M £14.1M - 7.72 9(5) 6

ROBINHO, Souza W/F 23 93 97 Superb £10.0M £26.7M - 7.29 9(2) 2

I don't play wingers, seriously any W can play LM/RM perfectly well and in these cases, very very well :D

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Re: Players position

SIMAO' date=' Sabrosa W/AM 28 93 79 Superb £7.9M £14.1M - 7.72 9(5) 6

ROBINHO, Souza W/F 23 93 97 Superb £10.0M £26.7M - 7.29 9(2) 2

I don't play wingers, seriously any W can play LM/RM perfectly well and in these cases, very very well :D[/quote']

again, u r not understanding my point

I DO NOT DISPUTE THAT THEY CAN PLAY THERE, WHAT I SAID WAS, IT IS NOT WHERE THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYED. HENCE WHY THEY ARE NOT RM/LM, THEY ARE WINGERS. THEY ARE DESIGNED TO PLAY MORE ATTACKING.

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Re: Players position

again' date=' u r not understanding my point

I DO NOT DISPUTE THAT THEY CAN PLAY THERE, WHAT I SAID WAS, IT IS NOT WHERE THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYED. HENCE WHY THEY ARE NOT RM/LM, THEY ARE WINGERS. THEY ARE DESIGNED TO PLAY MORE ATTACKING.[/quote']

I am understanding your point, I just happen to think it's utter tosh....surely by never ever playing wingers in LM/RM positions you are just limiting your options...?

How attacking you want your wide men to be is personal choice, sod where they are "supposed to be played"...? How many wingers do you see playing on the left/right of a 4 in real life? Plenty....

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Re: Players position

haha oh no, the fact that u dont even understand player positions, to me, just makes u look like a total bean. there is clearly a reason why they are 2 seperate positions. maybe u misunderstood me when i said 'cannot' what i meant was, they shouldnt be played there for the above reason. generally when you see teams struggling it is because the manager is tactically inept and makes them sort of mistakes, along with obviously much worse 1s such as playin strikers in midfield and what have you. so ill do it my way and keep suceeding by playin players where the game intends them 2 be played, and u do it ur way.

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Re: Players position

haha oh no' date=' the fact that u dont even understand player positions, to me, just makes u look like a total bean. there is clearly a reason why they are 2 seperate positions. maybe u misunderstood me when i said 'cannot' what i meant was, they shouldnt be played there for the above reason. generally when you see teams struggling it is because the manager is tactically inept and makes them sort of mistakes, along with obviously much worse 1s such as playin strikers in midfield and what have you. so ill do it my way and keep suceeding by playin players where the game intends them 2 be played, and u do it ur way.[/quote']

Yep I will keep doing it in my inept way, you know the way which has won 10 league titles and 5 cups, including ones in gold championships....total bean is about right. Someone has actually repped me for making a fool of you which I find very funny. This really is tara now btw, I am just very very bored :D

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Re: Players position

first of all' date=' ur problem with wingers is simple. a LM cant play on the wing, else he wud be a W! so if ur playin an F/W in left mid, u mite aswel go the whole hog and put ur forwards at the back!

and ur situation with messi, good rating doesnt necessarily = good performances, u should be able to get the best out of them with good tactics.[/quote']

Man, I don't even know where to start with you. One thing is for sure, though, you didn't even tried to understand what I'm saying here. You just came to criticize.

For your information, I've won both Division 1 in all active(!!!) league and Champions Cup with the same team(!!!) last season. That much about my tactical knowledge. And you saying that playing winger as a RM or LM is the same as playing forwards at the back(!?!), tells a lot about your understanding of the game. I mean, it's not like I said that we should play defenders as a forwards, for God sake. I really don't know what your problem is, but you're clearly mixing potatoes and tomatoes here.

Anyway, the reason why I've opened this thread was not to discuss where players should play, but to discuss what is the practical use of versatile players in this game when it's clear that they are completely useless in their secondary positions. I mean, CB/CM will be just horrible in midfield and F/AM will be just as horrible as a AM. Do you understand what I'm saying? I mean, why did SM gave them those secondary positions if they can't perform?

For the end, I'm just going to quote some of the things that I said earlier and that you tried to discredit, in hope that the second reading will help you to understand my arguments more clearly:

I had a LM/F who was just brilliant as a left winger for me. Then his position changed to F/W and now, that exact same player in that exact same left winger position where he was brilliant prior to position change can't average more then 6.0 (???).

Can't you see my point here? He was just brilliant in that position for more then a half of the season and then, after the position change, suddenly, for the rest of the season, he can't perform better then 6.0?!? We're talking about the same player here!!! Surely, I don't argue that his performance shouldn't go down a bit as a result of that change, but certainly not from 8.5 to 6.0.

Let me give you another example: I have Arturo Vidal who is listed as a DM/LB now. What do you think his Av. Pf. at LB position should be? I'm sure that they wouldn't go over 6.5. Now, I can't know that for sure, of course, but I'm not stupid to play him there either.

And for Messi, you replied:

...and ur situation with Messi, good rating doesn't necessarily = good performances, u should be able to get the best out of them with good tactics.

You just made me laugh there:D It's not that I've played him as defender, heck, I didn't even played him as a midfielder, I played him as a AM, right behind the central striker!!! Can't you see the difference? SM listed him as a F/AM. What is the use of that AM? Besides, don't you think that his perfect position in 4-3-2-1 formation is spot #10? Please, go to the Tactics, click on Formations and look where that spot #10 is and then tell me that his average performance shouldn't be higher then 6.80. C'mon, man, be objective.

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Re: Players position

to type all that u clearly hav no life. like i said' date=' ill do it my way and u do it ur way. and il keep making a success of my teams also, so shut the **** up cz ur boring me with ur silly little 'im just going to quite this, and that' ******* do 1. :mad:[/quote']

First of all, I couldn't care less for how you play this game. This thread is NOT about that.

Second of all, THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT THAT... sorry... it's not.

And finally, if you can't communicate like a civilized human being, don't talk to me.

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Re: Players position

u really are a hypocrite. first of all u start the thread moaning about secondary positions being practically useless, so i try and shed some light on the subject, which is, i assume, why u started the thread, to try and get feedback, and u go off on 1!! i was only trying to help you, and what i said is correct, tactical awareness is more imporatant than highly rated players. not saying u r not tactically aware, but, i see teams struggling because they cannot find a system that suits there good players, like, u see thread all the time on here like 'help with my barcelona' and i think, jesus christ if u cant manage barcelona what are you playing at. so if your going to argue at people that give u feedback, then dont start threads asking for explanations.

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Re: Players position

to type all that u clearly hav no life. like i said, ill do it my way and u do it ur way. and il keep making a success of my teams also, so shut the **** up cz ur boring me with ur silly little 'im just going to quite this, and that' ******* do 1.

or what you replied to AFCTU Jacko:

yeh they cannot because it is not their position u idiot

is NOT a feedback.

You can't just go around and insult people and then expect that someone will respect you for that. That is just insane, my friend, and if you don't get that, I can't help you.

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Re: Players position

yeh i didnt insult you to begin with. it was only when you decided to be argumentative with me when u asked for some explanation' date=' i tried to shed some light on it, and your initial rudeness, by arguing back, prompted me to react like that.[/quote']

Just picked up on this thread after a few complaints to me , here is my intake on it ,opening thread nothing wrong with it ,Jasenjin giving his honest opinions and asking for other members to see if they concur.

First reply is by you again nothing wrong with it ,giving your opinion.

Next reply by AFCTU Jacko,again nothing wrong with it ,he gives his opinion which disagrees with yours and is entitled to because i do anyway with my game experience with wingers and RM/LM.

Anyway to his reply the next post is a quick hard responce from you .

mate for god sake' date=' wingers cannot play left mid!![/quote']

He finds the same as me they can ,depending on your formations you use ,so seems we all have had different experiences then just you saying they cant does not mean its correct seems some of us have found to the contrary .

So therefore the opening thread person is getting the different feedback he was hoping to find .

Then the next two threads are by Jinky and Jacko who like me refute your thread that wingers can not play LM.also nothing disrepsectful in the way they have replied.

Anyway we get a two and thro between you and Jacko on what you both believe and have found i presume with your experiences ,but you are not going to get him to agree because i also would not have because my experiences have been the same as his so i wouldnt like it when been answering all threads respectfully get told because not agreeing with your opinion,

yeh they cannot because it is not their position u idiot

Then members still keep their threads calm and not abusive but because your finding your opinion is on its own at the moment against others the next abusive reply comes from non other than ' date='

to type all that u clearly hav no life. like i said, ill do it my way and u do it ur way. and il keep making a success of my teams also, so shut the **** up cz ur boring me with ur silly little 'im just going to quite this, and that' ******* do 1. :mad:

I have not deleted any of your posts even though i should, so that all can see the truth of this thread by me ,all rudeness and argumentative has been stirred up and started by you because no one sides with your views .

the next time i see a thread like your last quote above not only will i delete it i will remove you from Forum for a spell .

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Re: Players position

To type all that, you clearly have no life:D Just kidding, Alan:D Thank you for your help, now we can focus on a topic again.

I really want this thread going, because I think that this particular part of the game has a lot of room for improvement. I bought a lot of versatile players thinking that their versatility will give me more tactical flexibility in the game, but, at the end of the day, I really don't feel like I benefit in any way from having them on my team. Their average performance in their secondary position was a way bellow average. I mean, if we take a F/AM for an example, I didn't notice any difference, average performance wise, between that player and regular CM playing as an AM. Not that either one of them should really be a team's first option there, of course, but that's not the point right now:). The point is that it should be logical that F/AM, due to his secondary AM, performs much better in that position?

What do you think? We didn't have a chance to hear your opinion yet. Does those double-positions (I don't really know how to call them other then this, but, hopefully, you know what I mean by that:)) have any practical use(?) or they are there just as an esthetic detail?

Once again, thank you and all best,

Jasenjin/ PFC

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Re: Players position

I'm interested in this thread a lot and have been folowing it's progress. Well, if you can call it progress :o

I'd be interested to see what the chosen ones at SM have to say about this, so much so that I will be passing on details of the thread to either mr gore or one of his minions ;) to have a look at to see if they can come on and give a definitive answer about 2nd positions.

Some good posts here.

Personally I have mixed reults playing people in their 2nd positions, I get some that perform really well and others who don't just have as much joy playing their 2nd position. Mind you I've played players completelty out of position, some of which have been there for 2 seasons and been my most consistent player!!

Here are some stats for Deco of Barcelona in a custom setup I am in. These are not bad stats consideing he is an AM/CM and he spent this particular season playing on the left of midfield in a 3-4-1-2 for me, not spectacular but an ave rating of over 7 per game:

Games goals *** mom av r y r

15 (0) 1 1 0 7.27 2 0

It can work, but sometimes it goes spectacularly wrong.

After Messi raised to a 95, I decided to play HIM in the same position this season and he only has these ratings:

Games goals *** mom av r y r

10 (0) 1 4 0 5.30 1 1

Hence a bit of tinkering went on and in the last 4 games Deco has resumed on the left with these stats:

Games goals *** mom av r y r

4 (0) 0 1 0 7.50 0 0

Swings and roundabouts if you ask me.

The above stats are true and are taken from Glenn's Elite League for those wanting to see them.

It's a funny old game ain't it?? :D

EDIT, there must be something in this as in my club messages for my Bayern in Glory Hunters this morning, Philip Lahm has had a positional change and is now considered a LB/RB. This would not have needed changing if there was no difference in performance as before he was a RB/LB :confused:

Have PM'ed Mr. Gore as promised, hopefully an explanation soon.

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Re: Players position

I have not deleted any of your posts even though i should' date=' so that all can see the truth of this thread by me ,all rudeness and argumentative has been stirred up and started by you because no one sides with your views .

the next time i see a thread like your last quote above not only will i delete it i will remove you from Forum for a spell .[/quote']

i havnt been rude and argumentative because people havnt sided with my views. it is because i felt my view was disrespected, so i reacted angrily. also, i realise this is only 1 game, but, an insight in to why i believe i am correct. example, last week neller. im not sure which 1 of you it is that manages sheff wednesday in english championship 30, but last week u played my coventry team. i played 4-1-2-2-1 with my wingers playing very advanced, where wingers play in real life, and i played against a 5 man midfield, with your 2 wingers, playing on the flanks of a 3-4-1-2 formation, slightly more defensive. and i won 3-0. ;)

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