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Alright, i'm going to have to rant about this because it's getting absurd. Player positions has been a general annoyance of mine for a while now and it's getting worse not better.

Nathaniel Clyne

Just had his position changed from: D,DM,M® to D(RL),DM,M®.

Since Jan 1st 2012 Clyne has played a total of 11,850mins in all competitions (not internationals).

He's played as a RB for 11,143mins (94%)

He's played as a RM for 446mins (3.8%)

He's played as a LB for 261mins (2.2%)

Alright, so perhaps he's played LB a fair bit recently and this is why he's been changed?

LB - 29th September 2012, 24th August 2013, 1st January 2014, 28th October 2015.

Does this really warrant a position change? Of course not! It's a strong debate whether he deserves his M[R] position let alone D[L] position! This is why voting does not work, the people who vote for these changes are BIASED, they want the changes because they own the player and it gives them more options. It has nothing to do with the players legitimate claim to having a new position or not!

I could point at Danny Ings who also had a position change which was totally unnecessary. Surely, if ratings are calculated based on a range of results (i.e. half a seasons worth of data) then shouldn't player position also be calculated in the same way? Why can a player who's played a position 4 times in almost 4 years be given that position? Please sort this out otherwise no matter the changes that are made to the game it falls down by player positions being totally unrealistic.

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I was surprised when I saw what they've done to Clyne. Ridiculous. Similar to Young becoming a RB, he's only played a few games there. Ings is not as bad, not needed but still it's fine compared to Clyne.

In my opinion a player should have a primary position, where they play optimally, and then secondary positions where they can play but not as well. Instead in the current system players have their secondary positions as primary too.

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Fellaini and Young's changes make sense while LvG is at United. he may play Fellaini in midfield or #10 but his role is obviously that of a target man and functionally he is a #9. and Young has been playing RB & LB on and off since LvG took charge.

for full clarification I have neither player in any gameworlds so do not benefit from these changes. I agree that this is the inherent flaw in allowing people to vote on soccerwiki changes.

my main beef with soccerwiki right now is influenced by the upcoming game engine changes. there are many players with AM(RL) who, in reality, can play on the flanks in a flat midfield 4 or 5. and once the changes are brought in, they won't be able to play there anymore.

I don't dispute the changes are necessarily (to stop silliness like Cristiano playing RM) but if soccerwiki could see their way to updating the positions of players who have repeatedly shown an ability to play as wide midfielders, so that those guys can continue to be used realistically on the sides of a midfield, that'd be just swell.

talking about guys like Robben, Di Maria, Arda Turan, De Bruyne, even Mata is essentially playing RM under LvG.

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What gets me frustrated is the new changes in the game will put more emphasis on player positions. Yet when the player positions data is inaccurate it makes the whole process redundant. It's like changing a cars tyre while the suspension is still broken.

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Fellaini and Young's changes make sense while LvG is at United. he may play Fellaini in midfield or #10 but his role is obviously that of a target man and functionally he is a #9. and Young has been playing RB & LB on and off since LvG took charge.

I understand your point on both players I just disagree that either player should be given the positional changes they have been given. I would give Fellaini the AM position and allow him to be a 'deep' TM if you like but the CF position - no way! Players should have to play in a position a fair amount of time(s) before they can then be given that position.

Quite often during matches (often the last 10 mins or so) managers will make tactical/positional changes. Either play ultra defensive if they want to hold on for a tight win, or play ultra attacking if they want to snatch a late draw/win. I don't think this should be reflected on SM or any other format in terms of a where we can play a player.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Re. the Young / Fellaini debate, yes there real life managers play them in the full back / centre forward positions but they are clearly not as good in those positions as they are in their primary role. I therefore agree with Sir Rahul and Kop Star that these "secondary" positions should be rated lower than their primary roles.

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let's use this thread to suggest player position changes that need to be made.

 

hopefully we can catch the eye of some high level soccerwiki mods.

 

explain why you think a player deserves to have a change in position, being respectful when you do so.

 

AND PLEASE: if you want to whine about 352 or be dismissive and suggest people "get over it" and "change formations" - please go elsewhere.

 

Angel Di Maria: M,AM(RLC),F(RL)
he played for Benfica, Real Madrid (in 13/14) and Argentina (in World Cup, and Copa) as a hybrid role M(LC). and when he played on the right for Madrid under Mourinho functionally he often played in M(R ) spaces. certainly he had those kind of defensive duties.
 
Arda Turan: M,F(RL),AM(RLC)
he played a hybrid wing role for Atletico, covering enormous patches of the touchline. had the defensive responsibilities of a M(RL) and the attacking ones of an AM(RLC) - also plays a similar role for Turkey. the forward positions are there because he can play in the wide positions in a front three and you can't play there in a flat front three on SM without a F(RL).
 
Arjen Robben: M(R ),AM,F(RL)
Pep routinely plays him on the right of midfield in a 3421.
 
Franck Ribery: M,AM,F(RL)
look where he starts moves, and the responsibilities he has. if he was fit Pep would play him on the left of midfield in the 3421.
 
Isco: M,AM(RLC),F(RL)
functionally occupies M(L) spaces when he plays M©. always drifts to the left flank. when playing on the left of Madrid's 4321 also occupies M(L) defensive responsibilities and positioning. the forward positions are there because he can play on the wide positions in a front three (does for Spain and Madrid) and you can't play there in a flat front three on SM without a F(RL).
 
James Rodriguez: AM(RLC),F(RL)
the forward positions are there because he can play in the wide positions in a front three and you can't play there in a flat front three on SM without a F(RL). 
 
 
Douglas Costa: M,F(RL),AM(RLC)
played as a traditional wide-midfielder/winger for Brazil, and Bayern at times. hugs the touchline, defends the forward and middle thirds of the pitch. classic M(RL) behaviour. the forward positions are there because he can play on the wide positions in a front three (did for Shakhtar) and you can't play there in a flat front three on SM without a F(RL).
 
Kingsley Coman: M,AM,F(RL)
again, plays wide of midfield in a 3421.
 
Willian: M,F(RL),AM(RLC)
even in Chelsea's 4231, he functionally spends a lot of time in M(RL) zones, especially defensively. the only AM(RL) players Mourinho let play without M(RL) responsibilities were Cristiano and then Hazard last season. the forward positions are there because he can play on the wide positions in a front three (does for Brazil and Shakhtar) and you can't play there in a flat front three on SM without a F(RL).
 
Yannick Carrasco: M,F(RL),AM(RLC)
doesn't play for Monaco anymore. has taken over Arda Turan's role in Atletico Madrid. so plays down the sides of midfield in M(RL) positions in defensive and offensive transitions and begins attacks from there also. the forward positions are there because he can play on the wide positions in a front three (has done for Belgium) and you can't play there in a flat front three on SM without a F(RL).
 
Mesut Ozil: AM(RLC),F(RL)
the forward positions are there because he can play on the wide positions in a front three (has done for Madrid, Germany, and even Arsenal tbh) and you can't play there in a flat front three on SM without a F(RL).
 
Kevin De Bruyne: M,F(RL),AM(RLC)
for all three of his clubs he begins attacks in M(RL) zones and defends there too. the forward positions are there because he can play on the wide positions in a front three (does for Belgium) and you can't play there in a flat front three on SM without a F(RL).
 
David Silva: AM(RLC),F(RL)
he can play on the wide positions in a front three (does at times for Spain) and you can't play there in a flat front three on SM without a F(RL).
 
Edinson Cavani: AM(RL),F(RLC)
plays on the wing for PSG. simple as that really. his role for Uruguay is often wing-based as well.
 
Andres Iniesta: M,AM(LC),F(L)
the forward position is there because he can play wide left in a front three (has done many times for Spain and Barcelona) and you can't play there in a flat front three on SM without a F(L).
 
Mats Hummels: D(C )
he hasn't played defensive midfield in, what, 5 years?
 
Sergi Roberto: D,F(R ),DM,AM,M(RC)
he can play all the down the right flank and then obviously all the central midfield positions. the forward position is there because he can play on the right of a front three (did for Barcelona vs. BATE and in El Clasico) and you can't play there in a flat front three on SM without a F(R ).
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let's use this thread to suggest player position changes that need to be made.

 

hopefully we can catch the eye of some high level soccerwiki mods.

 

explain why you think a player deserves to have a change in position, being respectful when you do so.

 

AND PLEASE: if you want to whine about 352 or be dismissive and suggest people "get over it" and "change formations" - please go elsewhere.

 

Angel Di Maria: M,AM(RLC),F(RL) ok in the past; not recently. M(RLC) positions played are very very few (12+8+3 in his career) to allow position change anyway.
he played for Benfica, Real Madrid (in 13/14) and Argentina (in World Cup, and Copa) as a hybrid role M(LC). and when he played on the right for Madrid under Mourinho functionally he often played in M(R ) spaces. certainly he had those kind of defensive duties.
 
now
all time
 
 
Arda Turan: M,F(RL),AM(RLC) ok in the past; not recently. Agree as he played for long time as M(RL).
he played a hybrid wing role for Atletico, covering enormous patches of the touchline. had the defensive responsibilities of a M(RL) and the attacking ones of an AM(RLC) - also plays a similar role for Turkey. the forward positions are there because he can play in the wide positions in a front three and you can't play there in a flat front three on SM without a F(RL).
 
Arjen Robben: M(R ),AM,F(RL) ok in the past; not recently. M(R ) positions played are very very few (6 only in his career) to allow position change anyway.
Pep routinely plays him on the right of midfield in a 3421.
 
now
before
 
 
Franck Ribery: M,AM,F(RL) I could agree just with M(L) position, but he'd need AM® removed (9 time played as). Pure left AM. Stop.
look where he starts moves, and the responsibilities he has. if he was fit Pep would play him on the left of midfield in the 3421.
 
now
before
 
 
Isco: M,AM(RLC),F(RL) could agree with M(L). Played as M(R ) one time only and as AM(R ) 13 times only. Not enough.
functionally occupies M(L) spaces when he plays M©. always drifts to the left flank. when playing on the left of Madrid's 4321 also occupies M(L) defensive responsibilities and positioning. the forward positions are there because he can play on the wide positions in a front three (does for Spain and Madrid) and you can't play there in a flat front three on SM without a F(RL).
 
now
before
 
 
James Rodriguez: AM(RLC),F(RL) ok
the forward positions are there because he can play in the wide positions in a front three and you can't play there in a flat front three on SM without a F(RL).
 
now
before
 
 
Douglas Costa: M,F(RL),AM(RLC) M(RL) played positions not enough to change his positions. Maybe next.
played as a traditional wide-midfielder/winger for Brazil, and Bayern at times. hugs the touchline, defends the forward and middle thirds of the pitch. classic M(RL) behaviour. the forward positions are there because he can play on the wide positions in a front three (did for Shakhtar) and you can't play there in a flat front three on SM without a F(RL).
 
now
before
 
 
Kingsley Coman: M,AM,F(RL) NO WAY. Stop.
again, plays wide of midfield in a 3421.
 
so....???
 
 
Willian: M,F(RL),AM(RLC) M(RL) played 4+1 times only. Not enough to change his positions.
even in Chelsea's 4231, he functionally spends a lot of time in M(RL) zones, especially defensively. the only AM(RL) players Mourinho let play without M(RL) responsibilities were Cristiano and then Hazard last season. the forward positions are there because he can play on the wide positions in a front three (does for Brazil and Shakhtar) and you can't play there in a flat front three on SM without a F(RL).
 
now
before
 
 
Yannick Carrasco: M,F(RL),AM(RLC) M(RL) positions played 8+1 times only. Not enough to change him.
doesn't play for Monaco anymore. has taken over Arda Turan's role in Atletico Madrid. so plays down the sides of midfield in M(RL) positions in defensive and offensive transitions and begins attacks from there also. the forward positions are there because he can play on the wide positions in a front three (has done for Belgium) and you can't play there in a flat front three on SM without a F(RL).
 
now
before
 
 
Mesut Ozil: AM(RLC),F(RL) ok
the forward positions are there because he can play on the wide positions in a front three (has done for Madrid, Germany, and even Arsenal tbh) and you can't play there in a flat front three on SM without a F(RL).
 
Kevin De Bruyne: M,F(RL),AM(RLC) Never played as M(R ). Played just 9 times as M(L). Not enough to change.
for all three of his clubs he begins attacks in M(RL) zones and defends there too. the forward positions are there because he can play on the wide positions in a front three (does for Belgium) and you can't play there in a flat front three on SM without a F(RL).
 
now
before
 
 
David Silva: AM(RLC),F(RL) ok
he can play on the wide positions in a front three (does at times for Spain) and you can't play there in a flat front three on SM without a F(RL).
 
Edinson Cavani: AM(RL),F(RLC) ok
plays on the wing for PSG. simple as that really. his role for Uruguay is often wing-based as well.
 
Andres Iniesta: M,AM(LC),F(L)  Never played as F(R ). AM is enough.
the forward position is there because he can play wide left in a front three (has done many times for Spain and Barcelona) and you can't play there in a flat front three on SM without a F(L).
 
now
before
 
 
Mats Hummels: D(C ) ok now, not in the past
he hasn't played defensive midfield in, what, 5 years?
 
So you want to clear Hummels DM position because it's ages he hasn't been playing as DM but you want Arda Turan, Andres Iniesta M(L), Di Maria and so get their old positions back. Could you explain and motivate why do you want so this?
 
 
Sergi Roberto: D,F(R ),DM,AM,M(RC) No way.
he can play all the down the right flank and then obviously all the central midfield positions. the forward position is there because he can play on the right of a front three (did for Barcelona vs. BATE and in El Clasico) and you can't play there in a flat front three on SM without a F(R ).
 

 

 

 

I checked-up all your players tou have written here and I can assert only few need some adjustement but if you agree with your theory, so you have to decide: player positions in the past YES, player positions in the past NO.

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metaphysical, on 09 Dec 2015 - 10:07 PM, said:snapback.png

Mats Hummels: D(C ) ok now, not in the past

he hasn't played defensive midfield in, what, 5 years?
 
So you want to clear Hummels DM position because it's ages he hasn't been playing as DM but you want Arda Turan, Andres Iniesta M(L), Di Maria and so get their old positions back. Could you explain and motivate why do you want so this?

 

because Hummels played DM(C ) five years ago. Iniesta, Di Maria and Arda Turan played M(RL) much more recently than that. last season for Arda, this summer for Di Maria, and hell Iniesta still plays it every time he steps onto the field. the M,AM(LC) part is perfect to describe his positional play - the F(L) I only added because he can play in a front 3 and SM's flat-front threes necessitate a F(RL) now.

 

but anyway, to be fair Hummels does step into DM zones when orchestrating play and bringing the ball out of the back. but if that were to count for him playing DM(C ) then we'd have to give every ball-playing CB the DM(C ) positional ability. given everything else that needs addressing it seems easier to me to just scrub DM(C ) from Hummels' profile, but if you want we can get into which defenders should have the DM(C ) marker given their style of play.

 

also FYI? if you want to make Ribery a M,AM,F(L) I'm fine with that. I'm sure he still can play on the right, but I can't remember the last time he did.

 

as for transfermarkt, I cannot accept them as a positional bible I'm afraid. they don't run soccerwiki, so what is a RW to transfermarkt may in fact be a RM in real-life, and thus would be on soccerwiki. so we would have a disconnect.

 

as an example, according to transfermarkt, Arjen Robben has played no games at M(R ) this season: click here

 

meanwhile, as you can see from looking at the lineup on soccerway, he very definitely has played M(R ) this season. oh and there's Kingsley Coman playing M(L): click here

 

see what I mean?

 

(also: transfermarkt don't have international data, at least I can't see it, which further makes it unsuitable as the positional bible)

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I checked-up all your players tou have written here and I can assert only few need some adjustement but if you agree with your theory, so you have to decide: player positions in the past YES, player positions in the past NO.

 

There needs to be a consistent rule on how many games a player must play a position to get it. If its alot or just once I dont care but needs to be the same for everyone.

 

Florenzi got RB literally after two games. Emre Can gets a new  position every-time he happens to enter that area on the pitch. 

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metaphysical, on 09 Dec 2015 - 10:07 PM, said:snapback.png

 

because Hummels played DM(C ) five years ago. Iniesta, Di Maria and Arda Turan played M(RL) much more recently than that. last season for Arda, this summer for Di Maria, and hell Iniesta still plays it every time he steps onto the field. the M,AM(LC) part is perfect to describe his positional play - the F(L) I only added because he can play in a front 3 and SM's flat-front threes necessitate a F(RL) now.

 

but anyway, to be fair Hummels does step into DM zones when orchestrating play and bringing the ball out of the back. but if that were to count for him playing DM(C ) then we'd have to give every ball-playing CB the DM(C ) positional ability. given everything else that needs addressing it seems easier to me to just scrub DM(C ) from Hummels' profile, but if you want we can get into which defenders should have the DM(C ) marker given their style of play.

 

also FYI? if you want to make Ribery a M,AM,F(L) I'm fine with that. I'm sure he still can play on the right, but I can't remember the last time he did.

 

as for transfermarkt, I cannot accept them as a positional bible I'm afraid. they don't run soccerwiki, so what is a RW to transfermarkt may in fact be a RM in real-life, and thus would be on soccerwiki. so we would have a disconnect.

 

as an example, according to transfermarkt, Arjen Robben has played no games at M(R ) this season: click here

 

meanwhile, as you can see from looking at the lineup on soccerway, he very definitely has played M(R ) this season. oh and there's Kingsley Coman playing M(L): click here

 

see what I mean?

 

(also: transfermarkt don't have international data, at least I can't see it, which further makes it unsuitable as the positional bible)

 

 

Playing 1 lonely (or few) games in different position is not enough to add a new player position. STOP. Time elapsed by last game played as X position is not enough to remove player positions. STOP.

 

E.g. 1: Raul Garcia played some time as 2nd fwd and he hadn't F(C ) added.

E.g. 2: Last Cuadrado RB/RM game was 3 years ago. Just previous month he played as right fullback 3 times at least.

 

As you linked for Robben, he played almost all games as right WING not right midfielder.

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...I see the changes as primarily driven by the widespread abuse of AMs and wingers. The flat midfield (M) in a 4-4-2, 3-5-2 etc. is NOT the same at the AM positions in a 4-2-3-1. For this reason, AMs with NO M(RCL) abilities should NOT be able to play this deep. In the past, many managers have mindlessly hoarded all the highest rated advanced AMs and successfully forced them into a flat midfield. The previous game engine permitted this and this was wrong. I applaud any attempt to penalize managers that adopt (and have adopted this tactic). SM is clearly working WITH Soccerwiki's attributes with the intention of preventing managers from fielding too many attack minded players in an 11 man squad and therefore there is absolutely no need for Soccerwiki to alter player positions. Instead, SM managers must and should change their tactics and behavior.


 


Secondly, many of the AM(RCL) players that SM managers have argued should have their positional attributes revised, do NOT play in a flat M(RCL) regularly or consistently in real life. Indeed, very few top teams deploy a flat midfield regularly in real life and the purist, traditional M(RCL)s like David Beckham are much rarer nowadays. In short, I strongly suspect that SM managers are motivated by a desire to return the old days, where they could get away with fielding HAZARD, TURAN, DIMARIA and RONALDO all at M(RCL). This was and always will be an unrealistic and undesirable situation and I pray that SM developers never return to this state of affairs.


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Hell...why not put AM/wingers in defense or in goal! That way you can fit all 11 of the worlds best attacking players into your formation!

 

You hear how ridiculous this sounds?...yet so many SM managers used to get away with fielding players like AGUERO at CM...even though he barely gets anywhere near this position in real life.

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metaphysical, on 09 Dec 2015 - 10:07 PM, said:snapback.png

 

hell Iniesta still plays it every time he steps onto the field. the M,AM(LC) part is perfect to describe his positional play - the F(L) I only added because he can play in a front 3 and SM's flat-front threes necessitate a F(RL) now.

 

but anyway, to be fair Hummels does step into DM zones when orchestrating play and bringing the ball out of the back. but if that were to count for him playing DM(C ) then we'd have to give every ball-playing CB the DM(C ) positional ability. given everything else that needs addressing it seems easier to me to just scrub DM(C ) from Hummels' profile

 

Hang on a sec! I am flabbergasted that you cannot see the hypocrisy, contradictions and inconsistency of your own argument:

 

INIESTA + flat midfield positional play = should be permitted the M(RCL) attribute

 

HUMMELS + DM positional play = should NOT be allowed the DM attribute !!!

 

Why is there one rule for one...and another rule for the other!

 

You even claim that allowing HUMMELS the DM position would mean that 'we'd have to give every ball-playing CB the DM positional ability'.

 

How about this:

 

IF YOU ALLOW INIESTA THE M(RCL) POSITION...IT WOULD MEAN THAT WE'D HAVE TO GIVE EVERY AM/WINGER THE M(RCL) ABILITY!!!!

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Hang on a sec! I am flabbergasted that you cannot see the hypocrisy, contradictions and inconsistency of your own argument:

 

INIESTA + flat midfield positional play = should be permitted the M(RCL) attribute

 

HUMMELS + DM positional play = should NOT be allowed the DM attribute !!!

 

Why is there one rule for one...and another rule for the other!

 

You even claim that allowing HUMMELS the DM position would mean that 'we'd have to give every ball-playing CB the DM positional ability'.

 

How about this:

 

IF YOU ALLOW INIESTA THE M(RCL) POSITION...IT WOULD MEAN THAT WE'D HAVE TO GIVE EVERY AM/WINGER THE M(RCL) ABILITY!!!!

 

This is biggest contradiction of metaphysical theory.

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metaphysical, on 09 Dec 2015 - 10:07 PM, said:snapback.png

 

as for transfermarkt, I cannot accept them as a positional bible I'm afraid. they don't run soccerwiki, so what is a RW to transfermarkt may in fact be a RM in real-life, and thus would be on soccerwiki. so we would have a disconnect.

 

as an example, according to transfermarkt, Arjen Robben has played no games at M(R ) this season: click here

 

meanwhile, as you can see from looking at the lineup on soccerway, he very definitely has played M(R ) this season. oh and there's Kingsley Coman playing M(L): click here

 

see what I mean?

 

(also: transfermarkt don't have international data, at least I can't see it, which further makes it unsuitable as the positional bible)

 

 

:D  :D  :D

HAHAHA! Lol! HAHAHA!

 

So Soccerwiki does not meet you standards...now transfermarkt doesn't meet you standards!

 

I wonder if FIFA's interpretation of player's positions would meet you standards? Or goal.com's? Or match of the day's? Or the FA's? Or a football supporter's vote on the issue?

 

...I doubt it (unless it merely stated exactly what you wanted it to say).

 

Face it mate...we can throw all the cold hard facts and evidence available at you. Nothing will live up to your warped and distorted interpretation of players and their positions. Basically, you will never be happy, because all you want is for the positions to match what is in your head (which is quite clearly detached from reality and real football).

 

Basically, it boils down to:

 

YOUR OPINION = fit as many attackers into a starting 11 as possible.

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metaphysical, on 09 Dec 2015 - 10:07 PM, said:snapback.png

meanwhile, as you can see from looking at the lineup on soccerway, he very definitely has played M(R ) this season. oh and there's Kingsley Coman playing M(L): click here

 

 

Please don't use Soccerway anymore as it is not a reliable source. They only show players in certain position to make the formation logical and symetrical. In those last twelve bayern games I mentioned already Muller was playing as a CM five times, Robben as a CM twice and even Boateng played a game as a CM.

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metaphysical, on 09 Dec 2015 - 10:07 PM, said:snapback.png

 

 

meanwhile, as you can see from looking at the lineup on soccerway, he very definitely has played M(R ) this season. oh and there's Kingsley Coman playing M(L): click here

 

 

 

If you want reliable source of players position use espn gamecast, especially for this game: http://www.espnfc.us/gamecast/427023/gamecast.html

Just click TACTICAL FORMATION and then Average Position and you'll see that Koman played as pure AML, no way near to ML.

 

And as a manager used in 30+ clubs 3-5-2 wasn't so hard going to another formation in all of my clubs except one!

 

So stop bargain for player position which will suit your team but find new tactics for your players.

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Playing 1 lonely (or few) games in different position is not enough to add a new player position. STOP. Time elapsed by last game played as X position is not enough to remove player positions. STOP.

 

E.g. 1: Raul Garcia played some time as 2nd fwd and he hadn't F(C ) added.

E.g. 2: Last Cuadrado RB/RM game was 3 years ago. Just previous month he played as right fullback 3 times at least.

 

As you linked for Robben, he played almost all games as right WING not right midfielder.

 

linking to soccerway is not to prove that Robben deserves to play M(R ) - it's to prove that transfermarkt have different standards to soccerwiki & SM. what would be a M(R ) in soccerwiki & SM (playing on the right of a midfield four in a 3421) is AM(R ) according to transfermarkt.

 

so transfermarkt cannot be a reliable source of information for soccerwiki & SM, because they define positions differently.

 

come on, it's not that complicated.

 

 

This is biggest contradiction of metaphysical theory.

 

it's not really a contradiction.

 

every midfielder who drifts wide like Iniesta does, with the kind of defensive responsibility he carries and executes, should have the M(L ) positional marker. yes. this is why I suggested Isco have it too.

 

but that isn't EVERY AM/winger.

 

do you people even watch football? or do you just read blog and check stats on websites.

 

because I'm really starting to wonder.

 

 

 

Please don't use Soccerway anymore as it is not a reliable source. They only show players in certain position to make the formation logical and symetrical. In those last twelve bayern games I mentioned already Muller was playing as a CM five times, Robben as a CM twice and even Boateng played a game as a CM.

 

yes, soccerway is not necessarily reliable. but did you watch the game in question?

 

Robben and Coman were RM and LM in a 3421. and they played those roles during the game. the formation as accurate.

 

 

 

If you want reliable source of players position use espn gamecast, especially for this game: http://www.espnfc.us/gamecast/427023/gamecast.html

Just click TACTICAL FORMATION and then Average Position and you'll see that Koman played as pure AML, no way near to ML.

 

And as a manager used in 30+ clubs 3-5-2 wasn't so hard going to another formation in all of my clubs except one!

 

So stop bargain for player position which will suit your team but find new tactics for your players.

 

oh for goodness sake.

 

Coman and Robben lined up as RM and LM in a 3421. yes, their relative positions were higher up because Bayern dominated the game so much. but they were still lined up as RM and LM, with Costa and Muller as RW and LW in a front three.

 

if I were to try and replicate this system on SM, it wouldn't work. Coman and Robben don't have the M(R ) and M(L) positional markers. so I can't replicate a formation used in real life by the best manager in the world. how is that fair?

 

do you see what I'm saying?

 

these are players who can play these positions. is it very attacking? yes. but it can and is being done in real life. so why can't I do it on the game?

 

also:

 

I don't play 352 with any of my teams. I play 3412 with one team and have transitioned to the new rules easily. I've not had to buy or sell anyone because I set my squad up sensibly to begin with. I don't make these arguments for self-interest, I do it because it is the right thing to do.

 

FYI: in a way I don't really even need to make these arguments because right now you can still play fullbacks in 3-man defences and AM's in RM/LM with no penalty. that orange colour doesn't mean a thing both my main title rivals to the 3412 team have been doing it and they've not suffered at all.

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All your complains is about AM(CLR), and if they can or can't play in M(CLR) spot. But what about real M and DM's??
Cazorla for example don't deserve a DM?
Dzagoev the same(DM).
Luiz Gustavo still has D(CL) (this season has never play in that spot)
Kampl play in Leverkusen and as DM. The same Max Arnold in Wolfsburg
Moussa Dempele in Spurs. He play in DM and AM® position also
Bonaventura he can play all the left winger spot M-AM-F(L) in Milan

Less recognised players also have rights


How in hell is possible Sergi Roberto and Jonathan Schmid to play as CB in 352 just because they have D® ????

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