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7 hours ago, muallan said:

(The Sun) (Soccer News via HITC). 

My cousin's dog is probably more credible than the Sun.

 

....same story in multiple other papers.

The fact that all of them mention Arsenal as possibly 'stealing' DE LIGT away from Barcelona (i.e. DE LIGT is a Barcelona target) speaks volumes about what what DE LIGT 'has done' so far in his career...and how is sought by the biggest clubs in Europe.

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3 hours ago, BrutBrutBrut said:

....same story in multiple other papers.

The fact that all of them mention Arsenal as possibly 'stealing' DE LIGT away from Barcelona (i.e. DE LIGT is a Barcelona target) speaks volumes about what what DE LIGT 'has done' so far in his career...and how is sought by the biggest clubs in Europe.

Quoting the Sun... actually the fact your taking newspaper 'quotes' as a measure of a players success with a rumoured 'link' to Arsenal or Barcelona. How you can deem a transfer link = success is beyond me.

Players will always be linked from Ajax as they cream the best crop of youngsters in Holland - and they will be relatively cheaper to buy due to the far lower economy of the league.

Justin Kluivert has lost his place to David Neres,  van de Beek & De Ligt have achieved nothing yet apart from nailing down a first XI spot this season. De Ligt with all this 'talent' played for the Netherlands and was woeful, practically gifted Bulgaria 2 goals. Again, they are key players in a side that was humiliated on the European stage v Nice and then Rosenborg, they look great in the Eredivise where defending is generally poor and games are high scoring, so 20+ goals season strikers look great on paper then you see them get a big move and then flop hard, this seasons prime example > Davy Klaassen

Eredivise is a conveyor belt of overrated footballers.

Back to your original point, the first 3 names you gave i cannot fault, great Ajax products.

ALDERWEIRELD

VERTONGHEN

ERIKSEN

The others are all young and raw, to put them in the same category as a 'success' is a bit too far. As you can see with Klaassen he looks way out of his depth now he is in the Premier League. Or Viktor Fischer. Or Bazoer.

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8 hours ago, -JMH- said:

Quoting the Sun... actually the fact your taking newspaper 'quotes' as a measure of a players success with a rumoured 'link' to Arsenal or Barcelona. How you can deem a transfer link = success is beyond me.

Players will always be linked from Ajax as they cream the best crop of youngsters in Holland - and they will be relatively cheaper to buy due to the far lower economy of the league.

Justin Kluivert has lost his place to David Neres,  van de Beek & De Ligt have achieved nothing yet apart from nailing down a first XI spot this season. De Ligt with all this 'talent' played for the Netherlands and was woeful, practically gifted Bulgaria 2 goals. Again, they are key players in a side that was humiliated on the European stage v Nice and then Rosenborg, they look great in the Eredivise where defending is generally poor and games are high scoring, so 20+ goals season strikers look great on paper then you see them get a big move and then flop hard, this seasons prime example > Davy Klaassen

Eredivise is a conveyor belt of overrated footballers.

Back to your original point, the first 3 names you gave i cannot fault, great Ajax products.

The others are all young and raw, to put them in the same category as a 'success' is a bit too far. As you can see with Klaassen he looks way out of his depth now he is in the Premier League. Or Viktor Fischer. Or Bazoer.

 

I am merely taking multiple newspaper reports as evidence of a clubs interest in a player, not of success. Tell me, do Barcelona try to sign mediocre players? Do they try to sign youngsters that will NOT develop into 90+ players? How many Huddersfield players are Barca chasing...or even Southampton's? With other evidence, a big clubs interest in a player can indicate their future potential...and I am struggling to work out why you are finding this so difficult to grasp. More so, it is not a case of the tail wagging the dog. I do not believe that a player has potential because of this, I merely use it to strengthen or dis confirm my suspicions. I already suspected that VAN DE BEEK and DE LIGT were good based on their game time and performances.

 

Since you feel that their performances have been so 'woeful', lets look at the stats:

DE LIGT:              14 starts, 753 Eredivisie minutes

VAN DE BEEK:    13 starts, 742 Eredivisie minutes, goal and an assist

 

...is that 'woeful' for an 18 and a 20 year old who are guaranteed starters for a team currently 2nd place in the worlds 8th best league?

Beings as you find it so easy to be critical, I would be interested if you could cite some prospects, with similar game time and output, of the same age, achieving equivalent league success, in a similar or better league for us to analyse (beyond the boring, obvious examples that we have heard a million times).

How many international caps did DI CANIO get? How about Mikel ARTETA? Do you think that it diminished their achievements at club level or their overall rating. It's funny that you hold one dismal performance for the Netherlands against DE LIGT. The fact that you are including a players performance at international level is beyond me. In fact, I don't believe SM even factor international performances into their ratings, and rightly so. For me, they are irrelevant.

You mention Ajax's current EUROPA/CL failings extensively (as if it is the only thing that matters in the world)...yet you are quick to forget that 6 months ago, the same players got Ajax to a EUROPA league final and that Ajax is currently 26th in the UEFA club rankings, ahead of Liverpool, Monaco, Lazio, Roma, Inter and AC Milan.

Finally...I find it interesting that your only explanation for KLASSEN's current performances is that he is over rated. Did you not consider that he has just switched leagues and is having a difficult start? (for example, a 'difficult first season'). Did you not consider that he has had two managers since the start of the season? Did you not consider the rest of the team's dreadful form and the lacklustre management of Koeman? ... or is that all KLASSEN's fault too? Because of his lack of quality?

...I would be interested to see where KLASSEN is in 12 months time.

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13 hours ago, BrutBrutBrut said:

....same story in multiple other papers.

The fact that all of them mention Arsenal as possibly 'stealing' DE LIGT away from Barcelona (i.e. DE LIGT is a Barcelona target) speaks volumes about what what DE LIGT 'has done' so far in his career...and how is sought by the biggest clubs in Europe.

Daily Express, Bleacher Report, and the Daily Mail are the other newspapers that cover the story. Nothing to see. 

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4 minutes ago, BrutBrutBrut said:

There are many, many more linking DE LIGT with Barca.

I'm looking for at least 1 half-decent source. You haven't given one yet.

Anyway, de Ligt is still very raw. His performance against Feyenoord recently was bad - gave up a penalty and also was decimated on Feyenoord's only goal. (see 3:10 and 3:52 in the video below)

 

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19 minutes ago, muallan said:

I'm looking for at least 1 half-decent source. You haven't given one yet.

Anyway, de Ligt is still very raw. His performance against Feyenoord recently was bad - gave up a penalty and also was decimated on Feyenoord's only goal. 

 

What was the final score?

Are we back to picking out singular performances again? An average would be fairer, according to Whoscored, even with the Feyenoord game, DE LIGT's league average is 6.90 rating. That's the same as ALDERWEIRELDS, better than AURIER's (6.56), SAVIC (6.80), GIMINEZ (6.89) etc.

 

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17 minutes ago, BrutBrutBrut said:

What was the final score?

Are we back to picking out singular performances again? An average would be fairer, according to Whoscored, even with the Feyenoord game, DE LIGT's league average is 6.90 rating. That's the same as ALDERWEIRELDS, better than AURIER's (6.56), SAVIC (6.80), GIMINEZ (6.89) etc.

 

Brut logic: If your team wins then there is no need to learn from your mistakes.

What's also hilarious is that not only you are using Whoscored ratings to gauge a player's ability, but you are basically saying that the Eredivisie has similar quality to the Premier League/La Liga by comparing his "ratings" to Alderweireld, Gimenez, etc. 

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7 minutes ago, muallan said:

Brut logic: If a team wins then there is no need to learn from your mistakes. 

What's also hilarious is that not only you are using Whoscored ratings to gauge a player's ability, but you are basically saying that the Eredivisie has similar quality to the Premier League/La Liga by comparing his "ratings" to Alderweireld, Gimenez, etc. 

Ligue 1 ranking is much lower than the Prems.

So MBAPPE's, NEYMAR's, DI MARIA's performances in Ligue 1 cannot be compared to SALAH's and SANE's in the Prem? Is that what you are saying?

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1 hour ago, BrutBrutBrut said:

 

I am merely taking multiple newspaper reports as evidence of a clubs interest in a player, not of success. Tell me, do Barcelona try to sign mediocre players? Do they try to sign youngsters that will not develop into 90+ players? How many Huddersfield players are Barca chasing...or even Southampton's? With other evidence, a big clubs interest in a player can indicate their future potential...and I am struggling to work out why you are finding this so difficult to grasp. More so, it is not a case of the tail wagging the dog. I do not believe a player has potential because of this, I merely use it to strengthen or dis confirm my suspicions. I already suspected that VAN DE BEEK and DE LIGT were good based on their game time and performances.

 

Since you feel that their performances have been so 'woeful', lets look at the stats:

DE LIGT:              14 starts, 753 Eredivisie minutes

VAN DE BEEK:    13 starts, 742 Eredivisie minutes, goal and an assist

 

...is that 'woeful' for an 18 and a 20 year old who are guaranteed starters for a team currently 2nd place in the worlds 8th best league?

Beings as you find it so easy to be critical, I would be interested if you could cite some prospects, of the same age, achieving equivalent league success, in a similar or better league for us to analyse (beyond the boring, obvious examples that we have heard a million times).

How many international caps did DI CANIO get? How about Mikel ARTETA? Do you think that it diminished their achievements at club level or their overall rating. It's funny that you hold one dismal performance for the Netherlands against DE LIGT. The fact that you are including a players performance at international level is beyond me. In fact, I don't believe SM even factor international performances into their ratings, and rightly so. For me, they are irrelevant.

You mention Ajax's current EUROPA/CL failings extensively (as if it is the only thing that matters in the world)...yet you are quick to forget that 6 months ago, the same players had got Ajax to a EUROPA league final and that Ajax is currently 26th in the UEFA club rankings, ahead of Liverpool, Monaco, Lazio, Roma, Inter and AC Milan.

'Woefully' off topic, you have lost me with Huddersfield being scouted by Barcelona. Barcelona have certainly purchased plenty of what turn out to be mediocre players . Case in point, They add many to the B side every year just to keep it competitive and ensure there brightest talents can play at the highest competitive level. Yet the return in recent years has been poor as they fail to both blood them and also keep them in the starting XI, hard when you have world class stars. De Ligt wont go to Barcelona anyhow, they are working tirelessly to bring in Yerry Mina much soon. A very classy defender.

Again, im picking up on you overemphasising Ajax's products. van de Beek/De Ligt to date has been part of a losing side in the Europa League, losing side in this seasons CL & Europa qualifiers, De Ligt international debut was horror show, Ajax blew the title last season. IMO all he has achieved is a string of failures so i wouldnt called him a 'success' as of yet. The fact is on the highest level he hasnt lived up to the hype, thats the point.

Eredivise is crap. Period. an average rating of 6.90 is actually not that great.

From the Netherlands, you can buy the best players for cheap compared to other top leagues. Ajax have a business to run, they dont survive on prize money il tell you that. Its much alike Brazilian football which i follow very very closely. Clubs need to generate funds to survive and compete. Ajax have its legendary academy to nurture young boys to guide them into the first team, with the aim to sell them at a massive profit. That cash ensure Ajax qualify for Europe year on year preserving their ranking. Ahead of clubs who have to fight in there own domestic league to even get to European competition, Yet they find themselves below Basel, and will fall again after this season.

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3 minutes ago, BrutBrutBrut said:

Ligue 1 ranking is much lower than the Prems.

So MBAPPE's, NEYMAR's, DI MARIA's performances in Ligue 1 cannot be compared to SALAH's and SANE's in the Prem? Is that what you are saying?

Mbappe, Neymar, Di Maria actually perform on the highest level. As has Salah and Sane

De Ligt has not

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1 hour ago, BrutBrutBrut said:

 

 

Finally...I find it interesting that your only explanation for KLASSEN's current performances is that he is over rated. Did you not consider that he has just switched leagues and is having a difficult start? (for example, a 'difficult first season'). Did you not consider that he has had two managers since the start of the season? Did you not consider the rest of the team's dreadful form and the lacklustre management of Koeman? ... or is that all KLASSEN's fault too? Because of his lack of quality?

...I would be interested to see where KLASSEN is in 12 months time.

Everton are playing better when he isnt in the team. 

Looks too lightweight, poor distribution and no creativity. All these things are what he was suppose to excel at in Eredivise?

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12 minutes ago, -JMH- said:

'Woefully' off topic, you have lost me with Huddersfield being scouted by Barcelona. Barcelona have certainly purchased plenty of what turn out to be mediocre players . Case in point, They add many to the B side every year just to keep it competitive and ensure there brightest talents can play at the highest competitive level. Yet the return in recent years has been poor as they fail to both blood them and also keep them in the starting XI, hard when you have world class stars. De Ligt wont go to Barcelona anyhow, they are working tirelessly to bring in Yerry Mina much soon. A very classy defender.

Again, im picking up on you overemphasising Ajax's products. van de Beek/De Ligt to date has been part of a losing side in the Europa League, losing side in this seasons CL & Europa qualifiers, De Ligt international debut was horror show, Ajax blew the title last season. IMO all he has achieved is a string of failures so i wouldnt called him a 'success' as of yet. The fact is on the highest level he hasnt lived up to the hype, thats the point.

Eredivise is crap. Period. an average rating of 6.90 is actually not that great.

From the Netherlands, you can buy the best players for cheap compared to other top leagues. Ajax have a business to run, they dont survive on prize money il tell you that. Its much alike Brazilian football which i follow very very closely. Clubs need to generate funds to survive and compete. Ajax have its legendary academy to nurture young boys to guide them into the first team, with the aim to sell them at a massive profit. That cash ensure Ajax qualify for Europe year on year preserving their ranking. Ahead of clubs who have to fight in there own domestic league to even get to European competition, Yet they find themselves below Basel, and will fall again after this season.

I wouldn't call Yerry Mina a young talent at 23...and I seriously have to question the judgement of someone who calls the Eredivise crap, yet thinks the Brazilian League is the pinnacle of excellence (as it is s***e). As you like international games so much...how many Brazilian league players/exports have won the World Cup, or even made the final in the last decade? ZERO. 

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30 minutes ago, -JMH- said:

Everton are playing better when he isnt in the team. 

Looks too lightweight, poor distribution and no creativity. All these things are what he was suppose to excel at in Eredivise?

Ridiculous.

Out of the last 11 Everton games (all competitions) that he has played, he has won 6, drawn 2, lost 3

In 6 out of the 8 times that he has played more than 45 mins, Everton won.

I find it startling that you blame KLASSEN for Everton's poor form when the rest of the team has been just as s***, if not worse.

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9 hours ago, BrutBrutBrut said:

I wouldn't call Yerry Mina a young talent at 23...and I seriously have to question the judgement of someone who calls the Eredivise crap, yet thinks the Brazilian League is the pinnacle of excellence (as it is s***e). As you like international games so much...how many Brazilian league players/exports have won the World Cup, or even made the final in the last decade? ZERO. 

Im wasting my time here you clearly dont take the time to read my responses.

I am saying Barcelona are trying to bring in Yerry Mina sooner as their first choice defensive cover. Regardless of age. 23 is still 'young' for a defender, most centre backs dont hit their peak until 28-32. In my opinion, something is clearly wrong if your having to play a 18/19 year old at centre back, unless your in such a un-competitive league where you can afford to take risks and make mistakes 

Please highlight where i made the statement the Brazilian league is the pinnacle of excellence? I am drawing the comparison that clubs like Ajax and clubs in Brazil have a model to produce players to sell, to ensure there own ability to compete at the highest level. Therefore you will see more young players in first teams.

How many Brazilian players have won the World cup in 10 years? Well considering we have it every 4 years, and they havent made a final in those last 2, then it will be zero. But then nor have France, or Belgium, or England for example. So i have no idea what your grasping at here.

Eredivise is poor. When you have Brad Jones setting records for clean sheets in a season, and a list of strikers top scoring strikers for example John Guidetti, Luuk De Jong, Bas Dost, Jozy Altidore, Bony, Pelle,  Depay, Van Wolfswinkel, Janssen, surely you must have to ask a question of the quality of the standard?

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9 hours ago, BrutBrutBrut said:

Ridiculous.

Out of the last 11 Everton games (all competitions) that he has played, he has won 6, drawn 2, lost 3

In 6 out of the 8 times that he has played more than 45 mins, Everton won.

I find it startling that you blame KLASSEN for Everton's poor form when the rest of the team has been just as s***, if not worse.

You need to look in details at the individual games! The league for example, KLAASSEN

hooked at 60mins, 1-0 win v Stoke

v Man City, brought on at 61mins, Everton were 0-1 up, drew game 1-1

pulled off v Spurs 0-3 down at half time. lost 0-3

dropped v Man Utd

Bournemouth, taken off at 55mins 0-1 down, Everton go on to win game 2-1

dropped v Burnley

dropped v Brighton

dropped v Arsenal

So in the league, he has been on the winning side once. with a 60 minute contribution v Stoke.

He was taken off and then Everton won v Bournemouth

He has been on the winning side v Sunderland in the League Cup, Hadjuk Split, & Ruzomberok of Slovakia home and away. The kind of matches he should be bossing with goals and assists....

This is where you use Whoscored data. His key passes stat is at 0.3. average passing down to a miserable 17. Shots per game under 1, no goals, no assists. For a creative attacking midfielder, that is dire. 17 passes with an 80% completion on average! The only worse performing player in the whole squad is Sandro Ramirez, bar those with sub appearances under 30mins.

No one is blaming Klaassen for Evertons form, but it is very very clear he out of his depth, under-performing and nothing like the player that was on show at Ajax.

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1 hour ago, -JMH- said:

I am saying Barcelona are trying to bring in Yerry Mina sooner as their first choice defensive cover. Regardless of age. 23 is still 'young' for a defender, most centre backs dont hit their peak until 28-32.

Well I am not looking for defensive cover. I am looking for defenders that are likely to hit a 90+ SM rating sooner rather than later, as are most SM managers. The want LAPORTEs, GIMINEZs etc. There is no skill is naming a player who 23yo+ and is already 88, saying 'he is likely to hit 90+'. I am sure I could name a dozen if you want to play that game. I personally sell my players when they hit 28/29 years of age...doesn't stop all my first team CBs from being 90+ (which they all are).

1 hour ago, -JMH- said:

How many Brazilian players have won the World cup in 10 years? Well considering we have it every 4 years, and they havent made a final in those last 2, then it will be zero. But then nor have France, or Belgium, or England for example. So i have no idea what your grasping at here.

Its actually the last 3 World Cups. Brazil have not made the final since 2002. Comparatively, Eredivie exports made the final in the last 2 which, using your logic of acknowledging international performances, speaks volumes about the quality of the players that they produce.

1 hour ago, -JMH- said:

Depay

...is performing very well for Lyon.

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