crvena_zvezda 376 Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 2 hours ago, Kieran_S91 said: I saw this on soccerwiki funnily enough but only his parent club which is Sepsi Sfantu Gheorghe 🤣 Never knew he sneaked off to Romania. He was in talks with Sepsi Sfantu Gheorghe, but the deal collapsed. Then Kilmarnock came in for him. He was at Reggina this season, but he left in January by mutual agreement. 54 minutes ago, Kieran_S91 said: The next Pierluigi Collina 😂 I suspect that someone won't be refereeing for a long time lol. Kieran_S91 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jaybee 954 Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 The latest update for Premier League with players in order by minutes played which proved popular yesterday with Ligue 1 Lowco, Nameless, topofthebilly and 1 other 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jaybee 954 Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 Same for La Liga topofthebilly, Toby S and Nameless 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kieran_S91 8,306 Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 19 minutes ago, crvena_zvezda said: He was in talks with Sepsi Sfantu Gheorghe, but the deal collapsed. Then Kilmarnock came in for him. He was at Reggina this season, but he left in January by mutual agreement. I suspect that someone won't be refereeing for a long time lol. He’s a proper globetrotter Kyle Lafferty, in one of my game worlds he plays for Reggina but on soccerwiki it has him down as playing for Sepsi Sfantu Gheorghe (try saying that when you’re drunk) 😂 Yeah I thought the same, you can’t really do that in this day and age. Sir Rahul and Emy Ionescu 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jaybee 954 Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 Latest Bundesliga update topofthebilly, Toby S and Nameless 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jaybee 954 Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 Serie A update by minutes played Toby S, Nameless and topofthebilly 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Soccahappy 9,281 Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 16 hours ago, PokerDaddy said: Hi all!! Here's one for you all!! I'd be keen to know what side you will be on!! My Mbappe for Haaland+Havertz+89m Annnnnnnnnndddddd gooooooooo!! Haaland+Havertz+89m 16 hours ago, hesselink said: Kounde or Militao? Definitely Kounde hesselink, ombarcagunners and Milanista1 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SomeNextGuy 33 Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 Could do with Ersin Destanoglu getting a rise soon, he's the weak point in my team at the moment. Serkan Asan would be nice too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Soccahappy 9,281 Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 Marcelo Bielsa was on the verge of signing Michael Cuisance from Bayern Munich this summer, but Leeds United pulled out of the deal as he joined Marseille on loan https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/sport/leeds-united/leeds-united-transfer-michael-cuisance-19849806?utm_source=leeds_live_newsletter&utm_campaign=lufc_newsletter2&utm_medium=email It was certainly peculiar at the time, I wonder whether "time" will tell a different story?? Sir Rahul 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kieran_S91 8,306 Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 33 minutes ago, SomeNextGuy said: Could do with Ersin Destanoglu getting a rise soon, he's the weak point in my team at the moment. Serkan Asan would be nice too. There was a few edits for a number of Turkish teams a few weeks back so I would imagine his rise will be soon 😊 SomeNextGuy 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moranes 9 Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Rahul 7,757 Posted February 17 Author Report Share Posted February 17 On 4/20/2017 at 1:58 PM, Sir Rahul said: SCOTLAND PREMIERSHIP Rangers: Morelos +1 to 87- yes Goldson +3 to 85- yes Bassey +5 to 73- yes Tavernier +1 to 86- +2 to 87 Kent +2 to 85- +3 to 86 Barisic +1 to 85- +2 to 86 Kamara +2 to 84- +3 to 85 Hagi +1 to 84- +2 to 85 Aribo +1 to 83- +2 to 84 McGregor +1 to 84 Jack +1 to 84 Balogun +1 to 84 Defoe -2 to 83 McLaughlin +2 to 82 Roofe +1 to 84 Celtic: Edouard +1 to 87- yes Christie +1 to 86- +2 to 87 Frimpong +3 to 83- +2 to 82 Elyounoussi -1 to 87 Ajer +1 to 86 Barkas +1 to 86 Jullien -1 to 86 Bitton +1 to 84 Taylor +1 to 83 Elhamed +1 to 83 Griffiths -2 to 83 Hazard +2 to 75 List of 82+ players: Mohamed Elyounoussi (Southampton/Celtic) 88 James Tavernier (Rangers) 87 (+2, 17 Feb 2021) Alfredo Morelos (Rangers) 87 (+1, 20 Sep 2020) Ryan Christie (Celtic) 87 (+2, 17 Feb 2021) Odsonne Edouard (Celtic) 87 (+1, 20 Sep 2020) Christopher Jullien (Celtic) 87 Diego Laxalt (Milan/Celtic) 87 (-1, 16 Jan 2021) Shane Duffy (Brighton/Celtic) 87 (-1, 24 Jan 2021) Ryan Kent (Rangers) 86 (+3, 17 Feb 2021) Borna Barisic (Rangers) 86 (+2, 17 Feb 2021) Albian Ajeti (Celtic) 86 Callum McGregor (Celtic) 86 Tom Rogic (Celtic) 86 James Forrest (Celtic) 86 Scott Brown (Celtic) 86 Connor Goldson (Rangers) 85 (+3, 17 Feb 2021) Glen Kamara (Rangers) 85 (+3, 17 Feb 2021) Ianis Hagi (Rangers) 85 (+2, 17 Feb 2021) Kemar Roofe (Rangers) 85 (+1, 17 Feb 2021) Jermain Defoe (Rangers) 85 Steven Davis (Rangers) 85 Scott Arfield (Rangers) 85 Filip Helander (Rangers) 85 Leigh Griffiths (Celtic) 85 Kristoffer Ajer (Celtic) 85 Vasilis Barkas (Celtic) 85 Jonjoe Kenny (Everton/Celtic) 85 Olivier Ntcham (Celtic/Marseille) 85 Joe Aribo (Rangers) 84 (+2, 17 Feb 2021) Cedric Itten (Rangers) 83 (+1, 11 Aug 2020) Ryan Jack (Rangers) 83 Leon Balogun (Rangers) 83 Allan McGregor (Rangers) 83 Bongani Zungu (Amiens/Rangers) 83 Nir Bitton (Celtic) 83 Boli Bolingoli (Celtic/Basaksehir) 83 Steven Naismith (2nd Tier, Heart of Midlothian) 83 Nikola Katic (Rangers) 82 Patryk Klimala (Celtic) 82 Hatem Abd Elhamed (Celtic) 82 Greg Taylor (Celtic) 82 Scott Bain (Celtic) 82 Maryan Shved (Celtic/Mechelen) 82 Melker Hallberg (Hibernian) 82 Lewis Ferguson (Aberdeen) 82 (+2, 17 Feb 2021) Ross McCrorie (Aberdeen) 82 (+2, 17 Feb 2021) Ofir Marciano (Hibernian) 82 Jonny Hayes (Aberdeen) 82 Shay Logan (Aberdeen) 82 Joe Lewis (Aberdeen) 82 Jeando Fuchs (Dundee United) 82 Youssouf Mulumbu (Kilmarnock) 82 John Souttar (2nd Tier, Heart of Midlothian) 82 Christophe Berra (2nd Tier, Heart of Midlothian) 82 Craig Gordon (2nd Tier, Heart of Midlothian) 82 (-3, 3 Jul 2020) Nice review for Rangers today. We also had some minor Portugal, Turkey, Championship. They make it difficult for me to update 😕 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Rahul 7,757 Posted February 17 Author Report Share Posted February 17 12 hours ago, Vinnynx said: Liam Shaw (19) Leaving Sheffield Wednesday for Celtic at end of season ...as @Kieran_S91 mentioned him a while back been very impressed with him this season....one to watch As a wednesday fan sad to see him go so soon ....can't blame him the club is in turmoil atm chairman is turning club into a shambles 🥺🥺 Good move for him 4 hours ago, KonaldRoeman said: Hi, I'm looking for a promising 2nd goalkeeper. My first keeper is E. Mendy and my current 2nd is O Baumann, but want to replace him. Want to spend maximum of 5 mil. Thanks Meslier 4 hours ago, dgormand said: What an awful day for risers. What are SM doing? That’s Scotland done now? Belgium and Portugal were also completed in 1-2 days. Shocking stuff really. Shambles Rangers were long needed so it is good 3 hours ago, Kieran_S91 said: Some risers from this morning, been a while since I’ve quoted this list of 250 players I did back in October. Results Connor Goldson - 82 -> 85 ✅ Lee Buchanan - 73 -> 78 ✅ Glen Kamara - 82 -> 85 Ryan Kent - 83 -> 86 Jeremy Ngakia - 75 -> 78 ✅ Calvin Bassey - 68 -> 73 ❌ Bassey rose too 59 minutes ago, SomeNextGuy said: Could do with Ersin Destanoglu getting a rise soon, he's the weak point in my team at the moment. Serkan Asan would be nice too. Agreed 16 minutes ago, Moranes said: Paredes 91 92? Maybe 91, depending on their UCL progress Kieran_S91, Soccahappy, Vinnynx and 2 others 3 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ben C 10,887 Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 @Kieran_S91Adamu do you think his rise will come through or if it was a different edit? Hasn’t he gone on loan to St Gallen? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ben C 10,887 Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 Also Gelson Martins or Keita Balde? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JHNUFC 7 Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 Thoughts on Camavinga potential? He seems to want to stay at Rennes, will he need a move before he hits 90? ombarcagunners 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kieran_S91 8,306 Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 43 minutes ago, Moranes said: Paredes 91 92? 91 maybe 26 minutes ago, Sir Rahul said: Bassey rose too Yeah I know, I put a Red Cross next to him because my prediction was too high which is no good for nobody 😂 17 minutes ago, Ben C said: @Kieran_S91Adamu do you think his rise will come through or if it was a different edit? Hasn’t he gone on loan to St Gallen? Could just be a loan edit but he’s not a had a review since he got added to SM and he’s been scoring goals for fun. 14 goals last season and 7 so far this season. 1 minute ago, Ben C said: Also Gelson Martins or Keita Balde? Martins for me 3 minutes ago, JackNUFC99 said: Thoughts on Camavinga potential? He seems to want to stay at Rennes, will he need a move before he hits 90? I think he could reach 90 at Rennes but they need to be in the UCL again next year. If he moves I think his potential is mid 90’s JHNUFC 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Rahul 7,757 Posted February 17 Author Report Share Posted February 17 12 minutes ago, Ben C said: Also Gelson Martins or Keita Balde? Martins 6 minutes ago, JackNUFC99 said: Thoughts on Camavinga potential? He seems to want to stay at Rennes, will he need a move before he hits 90? What Kieran says JHNUFC 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JHNUFC 7 Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 3 minutes ago, Kieran_S91 said: I think he could reach 90 at Rennes but they need to be in the UCL again next year. If he moves I think his potential is mid 90’s Is there anyone else of similar standard who'd be better to buy I have 16mill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kieran_S91 8,306 Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 7 minutes ago, JackNUFC99 said: Is there anyone else of similar standard who'd be better to buy I have 16mill In my opinion no, he’s a generational talent. Sir Rahul, JHNUFC and Vinnynx 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike0007 54 Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 Ndombele or Bentancur? Ndombele or Sabitzer? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Raz. 13,642 Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 1 hour ago, JackNUFC99 said: Is there anyone else of similar standard who'd be better to buy I have 16mill Jude Bellingham or Florian Wirtz. JHNUFC 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ombarcagunners 739 Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 1 hour ago, JackNUFC99 said: Thoughts on Camavinga potential? He seems to want to stay at Rennes, will he need a move before he hits 90? he will not hit 90 as Rennes player maybe 89 JHNUFC 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ombarcagunners 739 Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 Jude Bellingham or Florian Wirtz JHNUFC 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Rahul 7,757 Posted February 17 Author Report Share Posted February 17 On 3/18/2017 at 4:48 AM, Sir Rahul said: EFL CHAMPIONSHIP Norwich: Drmic -1 to 83- yes Placheta +2 to 82- yes Skipp +5 to 83- +4 to 82 Martin +2 to 75- +3 to 76 Hanley +1 to 84 Sorensen +1 to 83 McGovern +2 to 82 Mumba +3 to 70 Brentford: Toney +3 to 83- yes Pinnock +1 to 84 Henry +1 to 84 Dalsgaard +1 to 84 Raya +1 to 84 Dasilva +1 to 84 Jensen +1 to 84 Mbuemo +1 to 84 Canos +1 to 83 Marcondes +1 to 83 Janelt +2 to 82 Sorensen +4 to 80 Fosu +3 to 80 Forss +3 to 80 Watford: Gosling -1 to 84- yes Murray -2 to 83- yes Pedro +2 to 82- yes Wilmot +2 to 82- yes Sierralta +2 to 80- yes Ngakia +5 to 80- +3 to 78 Deeney -1 to 86 Hughes -1 to 86 Chalobah +1 to 85 Success -2 to 83 Bachmann +2 to 80 Phillips +3 to 70 Stevenson +3 to 70 Swansea: Woodman +2 to 84- yes Guehi +4 to 82- yes Bennett -1 to 85 Roberts +2 to 84 Bidwell +2 to 84 Lowe +2 to 84 Grimes +1 to 84 Smith +1 to 83 Fulton +1 to 83 Cabango +2 to 82 Hamer -2 to 80 Dhanda +2 to 78 Cullen +3 to 73 Reading: Joao +2 to 84- +1 to 83 Olise +3 to 80- +5 to 82 Morrison +1 to 83 Rafael +1 to 83 Ejaria +1 to 83 Laurent +4 to 82 Rinomhota +2 to 82 Richards +2 to 82 Holmes +4 to 77 Esteves +1 to 77 McIntyre +1 to 76 Bournemouth: Solanke +1 to 86 Kelly +2 to 84 Stacey +1 to 84 Simpson +2 to 80 Surridge +2 to 80 Zemura +3 to 70 Cardiff: Ng +3 to 78- yes Moore +1 to 84 Nelson +1 to 83 Smithies +1 to 83 Vaulks +1 to 83 Ojo +1 to 83 Tomlin -2 to 80 Bamba -2 to 80 Harris +3 to 75 Middlesborough: Spence +3 to 80- yes Bettinelli +1 to 84 McNair +1 to 84 Saville +1 to 83 Fry +1 to 83 Bola +4 to 82 Tavernier +2 to 82 Johnson +2 to 82 Dijksteel +2 to 80 Wood +3 to 70 Stoke: Collins +6 to 82- yes Campbell +2 to 82- yes Bursik +5 to 80- yes Norrington-Davies +3 to 80- yes Clucas -1 to 84 Powell +1 to 83 Allen -2 to 83 Souttar +5 to 82 Fox +2 to 82 Vokes -1 to 82 Shawcross -1 to 82 Thompson +2 to 80 Oakley-Boothe +3 to 73 Blackburn: Douglas -1 to 83- yes Brereton +2 to 82- yes Armstrong +1 to 84- +2 to 85 Elliott +4 to 80- +6 to 82 Lenihan +1 to 84 Nyambe +1 to 83 Johnson +1 to 83 Ayala -2 to 83 Rothwell +2 to 82 Bell +2 to 82 Downing -2 to 80 Rankin-Costello +1 to 77 Dolan +2 to 75 Wharton +2 to 75 Barnsley: Morris +1 to 78- yes Brittain +3 to 78- +5 to 80 Styles +4 to 80- +2 to 78 Woodrow +1 to 83 Andersen +2 to 82 Sollbauer +2 to 82 Helik +2 to 82 Chaplin +1 to 82 Walton +4 to 80 Adeboyejo +3 to 76 Oduor +1 to 76 Palmer +2 to 75 Preston: Browne +1 to 84 Ben Davies +1 to 84 Rudd +1 to 83 Ledson +2 to 82 Hughes +2 to 82 Potts +2 to 82 Gallagher -2 to 80 Bristol City: Vyner +4 to 82- yes Diedhiou -1 to 84 Mawson -1 to 84 Bentley +1 to 83 Mariappa -2 to 83 Rowe +2 to 82 Moore +2 to 80 Brunt -2 to 80 Baker -3 to 80 Semenyo +5 to 78 Bakinson +4 to 76 Millwall: Parrott +1 to 78- yes McNamara +4 to 76- yes Hutchinson +1 to 83 Leonard +2 to 82 Bennett +2 to 82 Ferguson -2 to 80 Fielding -2 to 80 Luton: Cornick +2 to 80- yes Dewsbury-Hall +5 to 78- yes Ince -1 to 82 Rea +3 to 80 Bradley +2 to 80 Ruddock +2 to 80 Pearson +2 to 80 Berry +1 to 78 Galloway -2 to 78 O'Kane -2 to 78 Derby: Buchanan +5 to 78- yes Clarke +1 to 83 Roberts -1 to 83 Knight +2 to 82 Kazim-Richards +2 to 82 Bird +2 to 82 Te Wierik -1 to 82 Sibley +1 to 78 Nottingham Forest: Knockaert -1 to 85- yes Darikwa -2 to 78- yes Arter -1 to 84 Figueiredo +1 to 83 Colback -1 to 83 Yates +2 to 82 Garner +4 to 80 Bachirou -2 to 80 Dawson -2 to 80 Diallo -2 to 80 Hefele -2 to 78 Mighten +2 to 75 QPR: Osayi-Samuel +1 to 83- yes Austin -1 to 84 Johansen -1 to 84 Chair +2 to 82 Dykes +2 to 82 Adomah -1 to 82 Dieng +4 to 80 Dickie +2 to 80 Ball +2 to 80 De Wijs -2 to 80 Hamalainen +3 to 76 Kakay +3 to 76 Huddersfield: Sarr +2 to 82 O'Brien +2 to 82 Pritchard -1 to 82 Schindler -2 to 82 Toffolo +2 to 80 Pipa +2 to 80 Pereira -2 to 80 Elphick -2 to 78 Koroma +4 to 77 Schofield +3 to 76 Edmonds-Green +3 to 75 Rowe +2 to 70 Crichlow-Noble +3 to 68 Coventry City: Giles +3 to 76- +5 to 78 Biamou +2 to 77- +1 to 76 Hyam +3 to 80 O'Hare +2 to 80 McFadzean +2 to 80 McCallum +2 to 80 Marosi +1 to 78 Jobello -2 to 78 Wilson +1 to 76 Shipley +1 to 76 Rotherham United: Harding +2 to 80 Crooks +2 to 80 Ihiekwe +1 to 80 Jozefzoon -2 to 80 Wiles +2 to 78 Lindsay +2 to 78 MacDonald +2 to 78 Mattock -2 to 78 Olosunde +1 to 76 Billy Jones -2 to 76 Sheffield Wednesday: Urhoghide +2 to 75- yes Harris +1 to 83 Pelupessy +2 to 82 Brown -1 to 82 Wildsmith +2 to 80 Hutchinson -2 to 80 Shaw +5 to 75 Dele-Bashiru +3 to 73 Birmingham: Sanchez +1 to 83 San Jose -2 to 83 Clayton -1 to 82 Halilovic -1 to 82 McEachran -2 to 80 Adam George +3 to 65 Wycombe: Knight +2 to 78- yes Allsop +2 to 80 Grimmer +2 to 80 Thompson +2 to 78 Jacobson +1 to 78 Wheeler +1 to 78 Kashket +1 to 77 Stockdale -2 to 76 Mehmeti +3 to 73 List of 85+ Championship players: Ismaila Sarr (Watford) 89 Jefferson Lerma (Bournemouth) 88 David Brooks (Bournemouth) 87 Lewis Cook (Bournemouth) 87 Troy Deeney (Watford) 87 Will Hughes (Watford) 87 Christian Kabasele (Watford) 87 Teemu Pukki (Norwich) 87 Emiliano Buendia (Norwich) 87 Philip Billing (Bournemouth) 86 Diego Rico (Bournemouth) 86 Adam Smith (Bournemouth) 86 Steve Cook (Bournemouth) 86 (-1, 27 Aug 2020) Jack Wilshere (Bournemouth) 86 (-1, 27 Aug 2020) Craig Cathcart (Watford) 86 Ben Foster (Watford) 86 William Troost-Ekong (Watford) 86 Kiko Femenia (Watford) 86 Cucho Hernandez (Watford/Getafe) 86 (+1, 18 Jan 2021) Craig Dawson (Watford/West Ham) 86 Ignacio Pussetto (Watford/Udinese) 86 (-1, 27 Aug 2020) Todd Cantwell (Norwich) 86 (+1, 26 Aug 2020) Max Aarons (Norwich) 86 (+1, 26 Aug 2020) Dimitris Giannoulis (PAOK/Norwich) 86 (+2, 4 Nov 2020) Xavi Quintilla (Villarreal/Norwich) 86 (+1, 5 Aug 2020) Saman Ghoddos (Brentford) 86 Ryan Bennett (Swansea) 86 Andre Ayew (Swansea) 86 (-1, 24 Sep 2020) Harry Wilson (Liverpool/Cardiff) 86 Badou Ndiaye (Stoke/Al Ain) 86 Chris Mepham (Bournemouth) 85 Dominic Solanke (Bournemouth) 85 Arnaut Danjuma (Bournemouth) 85 Junior Stanislas (Bournemouth) 85 Asmir Begovic (Bournemouth) 85 (-2, 20 Aug 2020) Shane Long (Southampton/Bournemouth) 85 Ken Sema (Watford) 85 (+2, 15 Aug 2020) Isaac Success (Watford) 85 Adam Masina (Watford) 85 Andre Gray (Watford) 85 (-1, 27 Aug 2020) Tom Cleverley (Watford) 85 (-1, 27 Aug 2020) Marco Stiepermann (Norwich) 85 Tim Krul (Norwich) 85 Lukas Rupp (Norwich) 85 (-1, 26 Aug 2020) Ben Gibson (Burnley/Norwich) 85 (-2, 30 Aug 2020) Pontus Jansson (Brentford) 85 Winston Reid (West Ham/Brentford) 85 (permanent on database) Sean Morrison (Cardiff) 85 Harry Arter (Nottingham Forest) 85 Filip Krovinovic (West Brom/Nottingham Forest) 85 Anthony Knockaert (Fulham/Nottingham Forest) 85 (-1, 23 Jan 2021) Conor Hourihane (Aston Villa/Swansea City) 85 Yannick Bolasie (Everton/Middlesbrough) 85 (-1, 29 Aug 2020) Scott Sinclair (Preston) 85 Adam Armstrong (Blackburn) 85 (+2, 5 Feb 2021) Daniel Ayala (Blackburn) 85 Thomas Kaminski (Blackburn) 85 Charlie Austin (West Brom/QPR) 85 Stefan Johansen (Fulham/QPR) 85 Famara Diedhiou (Bristol City) 85 Tomas Kalas (Bristol City) 85 Adrian Mariappa (Bristol City) 85 Alfie Mawson (Fulham/Bristol City) 85 James McLean (Stoke) 85 Sam Clucas (Stoke) 85 Joe Allen (Stoke) 85 Bruno Martins Indi (Stoke/AZ) 85 Benik Afobe (Stoke/Trabzonspor) 85 Mikel San Jose (Birmingham) 85 (-2, 26 Sep 2020) Dan Gosling (Watford) 84 (-1, 17 Feb 2021) Painstakingly finished this though I doubt this is a proper review Nameless, crvena_zvezda and lemontrees 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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