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Mickbor59

433 guardiola

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Hi bud! This forum is a bit dead, not many ppl visit it for whatever that isnt player scouting. Guardiola's tiki taka 4-3-3 in soccer manager would be something like the 4 -3 -3 A or B (with wingers), passing style short, attacking mixed, mentality normal-attacking, tackling normal-hard, tempo slow, pressing all over with one of the right or left midfielders as playmaker (Xavi) and maybe your best forward as target man. 

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I dont speak french but google translator is my ally xD 

I think you mean that only 4-2-3-1 B works on this game, but its not true. I recomend you to read a post called "A guide for newcomers" where a guy explains how to build a good tactic. You can find that post in the "Tactical Help" section here on the forum. 

4231B works well in a lot of situations because it is a balanced formation, but can be easily countered with a correct playstyle. 

 

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Merci mais les articles datent de plusieurs années déjà et depuis la dernière mise à jour j'ai l'impression que c'est le 4231b qui domine

Mon équipe est la suivante:

Leno Walker Godin umtiti de vrij sandro milner allan Arthur verratti pogba eriksen locelso insigne piatek gnabry cavani aubameyang son 

Tu me conseilles de jouer comment?

Tout le monde dans mon championnat jouent en 4231 c'est pour ça je ne sais pas comment jouer je suis perdu avec mon équipe

Merci 

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1 hour ago, Mickbor59 said:

Merci mais les articles datent de plusieurs années déjà et depuis la dernière mise à jour j'ai l'impression que c'est le 4231b qui domine

Mon équipe est la suivante:

Leno Walker Godin umtiti de vrij sandro milner allan Arthur verratti pogba eriksen locelso insigne piatek gnabry cavani aubameyang son 

Tu me conseilles de jouer comment?

Tout le monde dans mon championnat jouent en 4231 c'est pour ça je ne sais pas comment jouer je suis perdu avec mon équipe

Merci 

Hi! You are right when you say that those posts are super old, but the guidelines they give still do work. 

To choose what to play you need to consider the advantages of your squad respect to the other, so it will always depend on your rival's strenghts and weakness. For example, it is no the same to play agains a team super strong in defense but that lacks good forwards than against a team with super strong forwards but whose defenders are wide worse than your attackers. 

Your team's rates are 91 gk 92 94 93 91 92 91 def 92 91 94 93 94 90 mids 92 90 91 94 95 93 in the order that you have listed them, so assuming that all of them are avaible for a game I can see that your defense is way weaker than your forwards and your midfielders. In a normal game your best possible team would be like:

91 gk                                 

92 94 93 92 def

94 93 94 midfield

94 95 93 forwards

The only players in your team whose rating is below 93 are the goalkeeper and 2 defenders, so this is the main weakness of your team. Your midfielders and forwards are equally strong. 

Based on this, your tactics must vary depending on rival's team composition. Let me give you a few examples. 

1.- Suppose that you are playing against a team like this:

93 gk                           or        .93

92 92 91 92 def                 .92 92 91 92

95 93 94 mf                        .95 93 94 93

99 95 93 fw                         .99 96 

In this case you can see that his forwards are widely stronger than your backlane, your midfields tie and his deffense is way weaker than your forwards.

When you were attacking, the best that you could do would be to kick the ball as far from his super strong forwards as quick as possible and give it to yours, who are also stronger than his deffenders.

When you were deffending, you would want to have extra people deffending his forwards because your 4 deffenders are not good enough to do it.

Given this, you probably want to play a formation with 4 defenders and 2 deffensive midfielders or 5 defenders, enough to stop him and 3 forwards, enough to beat his deffense. 

The best passing style would be direct or long ball with a fast tempo, making the ball arrive to your forwards rapidly.

 

2.- Now suppose that your rival's team is this:

93                        or      93

94 95 95 94               94 95 95 94

94 95 92                    94 95 93 92

91 93 92                     91 92

Now you are against someone whose forwards are weaker than your defenders while his backlane is ridiculously strong. Against such a team you dont have to worry so much about defending, the real challengue will be scoring a goal against such a monster defense, so a more attacking formation and instructions would be a good idea. 

In this situation 4-2-3-1 A or B would not be a good idea for you, you dont need 2 defensive midfielders since Umtiti and Godin can perfectly deal with his 91-92 forwards. Maybe a 4-3-3 or 3-1-3-3 would work. On the other hand, if your rival played 4-2-3-1 he would have the same attacking problem than you because his 91-92 forwards are not enough to score goals consistently, while he would ensure that you can't score against those defensive midfielders. 

In summary, 4-2-3-1 is not perfect and it only works when your squad and instructions fits it and your rival do not counter it. You do always have to analyze each match to choose the best tactic possible. 

I hope it has been helpful!

 

 

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Hi again! Assuming that the players of both teams had full stamina, the example fits perfectly what I said!

Look at what Lille did. He saw that his team was super weaker than yours, so he decided to play a defensive formation (4231A), defensive playstyle, hard tackling to deny possession and fast tempo, so when he got the ball he took it away from his area as quick as possible to counter attack. He was smart and chose a good tactic! Also you did not play with all your best players, Godín, Cavani and Verratti were on the bench. 

If I were you I would have played an absolutly offensive tactic. Maybe 3-4-3, 4-2-4 or 3-3-4, offensive, direct/short passing, hard tackling, all over maybe with abuameyang as target man and eriksen as playmaker. Of course assuming that all your player had full stamina. Anyways remember that this game has a random component on the simulations, otherwise teams whose squads are not super strong would have 0 chance of winning better teams. 

For your next game, if you have all your players avaible, I suggest you to play a formation with 4 defenders and at least 1 deffensive midfielder. Literally all his power is in the attack lane with Agüero and Hazard, the rest of his team is wide worse than yours. Against such a team your objective is to stop his forwards and give the ball to yours, since your lead attackers have 93-94 ratings while his deffenders are 89-91. You also win in the midfield.

A good formation would be a 4-2-3-1 A if you want to attack through the middle, 4-2-3-1 B if you want a mixed or down both flanks attacking or a 433 B. 4-2-3-1 places more people behind to stop Agüero and Hazard, 433B is a bit more ambitious, but it has more chances to end up in a result with a lot of goals of both teams. If he plays a defensive tactic and you use the 4231 its gonna be harder for you to score, but if he doesnt and goes for the attack you will probably crush him. Keep in mind that this is a weird case because he has a weak team with 2 overpowered forwards that force you to be especially careful with the counterattacks, it is not a situation that occurs frequently.

Instructions vary depending on how greedy you are and how many risks you want to take, as formations do. Direct passing style and all over pressing seem to be the only indisputable options, the rest may vary. I would use hard tackling, attacking mentality and fast tempo if you want to go for the stomp, if you are more conservative and dont want to take so many risks you could try to use normal tackling, normal tempo and normal mentallity, your squad is better enough to rely on their victory without doing anything extreme. 

What I dont recomend you to do is to use a formation like a 3-4-3 or anything with less than 4 defenders, if his forwards werent so good you would not have to worry about counter attacks, but Agüero and Hazard are 95 rating. 

As third option if you believe in the strenght of your midfielders and defenders you can try to use a classic possession-attacking formation. This is not a bad idea cause it grants you a permanent siege of rival's area and more resistence to counter attacks in exchange of less shots on target and taking the risk of being over pressured if your backlane is not good enough to deal with his forwards. In this case his forwards are better, but you have a 94-93 defense which is not so below and your midfielders are stupidly better, so it may work. 4-2-3-1 B, 4-3-3 A or B are the most common formarions for this. 

You basically play short passing, normal-fast tempo, attacking mentality, all over pressuring, mixed-middle-down both flanks attacking and hard tackling, but i'm not sure if this is the best you can play against that team, I haven't tested enough. 

It is also good to prepare 1 substitution at the minute 45 or 60 in case you were losing. I use to prepare this substitution to counter the tactic that may counter my starting one, in case I was wrong in my analysis. 

In summary, what I would do is this (Again assuming that all your best players and rival's are avaible)

4231B                                                            or       433B  

Hard tackling                                                               =

Direct passing                                                             =

Fast tempo                                                                  =

All over pressure                                                         =

Mixed/Down both flanks attacking                         Down both flanks probably

Attacking mentality                                                    =

Counter attacking                                                        =

Offside Trap (effective vs counter attacks)            =   but I would not use target man or playmaker. 

Playmaker or Target man only on players that fit your attacking style (middle, down both flanks...) I dont use to use playmaker or target man when playing mixed attacking, but I'm not sure if it works or not. 

My substituion would be at minute 45 if losing or drawing, and in that case using the 4231B short passing, mixed attack, all over pressure, hard tackling, fast tempo, attacking mentality, central attacking midfielder as playmaker (Eriksen), tight marking and counter attack. 

Remember that I'm not an expert and I just can base what I say on my experience, which is far away from being perfect! 

I hope it helps you and have some regards!

 

 

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That squad is super strong. If you want to play down both flanks I recomend you to place Eriksen and Aubameyang on the sides and Son in the middle, both players can use both feet and that way your best players will be on the most relevant positions. 

At 45 if you want to change to mixed attacking and use a playmaker you can put back Eriksen in the middle and choose him. It may not make a big difference but it is important to assign your players in the way that fits better your tactic!

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8 hours ago, Mickbor59 said:

Les flèches servent à quelque chose ?

Merci 

I don't use to use arrows, but I guess that it has some impact. 

How did games go for you? Some of my tactics worked well but I failed super hard playing too agressive vs a weaker team and lost 2/1 against 4-4-2 unmanaged xD

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Prochain match je joue une équipe entraînée et plus faible que moi jouant en 4231a son point faible c'est sa défense centrale..jaimerais continuer à jouer en 4231 tu me conseillerais comme comme instructions...

Merci 

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It depends on the power of his squad. If his you want to play 4231 you may try an agressive-possession style. Check that your player's stamina will be at least as high as your rival's for the match day, you played this game with all your best players.

I think that best way to play 4231 against a weaker team is an attacking-possesion style. It only works when your defense and miedfield is at least as good as his. If his central defense is weak you may try a 4231A, attacking through the middle, short passing, slow tempo, hard tackling, all over pressure and attacking mentality. Tight marking, your mid attacking midfielder as playmaker and counter attack. 

If at 60 you were drawing or losing that would be probably because your midfield and defense is not better enough to control de ball, so I think that it may be a good idea to change for a more direct style to give the forwards more presence. I like risk so I would play a 4-1-3-2, through the middle, direct passing, attacking minded, hard tackling, normal or fast tempo, all over pressing. Tight marking, counter attack, offside trap maybe but it may be too greedy and the central attacking midfielder as playmaker. This is a pretty risky formation but if your forwards are wide better than his defenders it should work. 

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His team is really balanced, I think that the attacking 4231 I mentioned may work well if all your stars are avaible. Starting with the 4132 or any other such agressive tactic may be too risky, if he plays a defensive counter-attacking formation and you give up too many balls by playing too agressively he could defeat you. I don't know what would be better, but I definetly would start with a 4231 possessing offensive, I think it is safer. 

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