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Nameless

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I have enjoyed playing SM for a number of years and check out the forum most days. The information posted and the efforts made by contributors is excellent so i was really interested to see how you got on playing in a league together. Turns out you are just as childish and petty as the rest of us. Maybe football brings out the worst in us. This was a big opportunity for the forum to push on and show the rest of us how to do things properly. You are blowing things badly and its not a good look!

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I will just give an outsider view and also what custom GWs stand for (also watching Leeds and Sheffield isn't that much fun).

The whole point of custom GW is trust, respect, follow unsaid rules (gentleman agreement such as you don't cancel agreed bids amongst many), lots of banter and healthy competition without crossing the line. 

Seems all of this has been broken and compounded by justifying the action. Honestly, this is the first time I have seen (read) someone throwing a match away.

If no action is being taken the best thing to do would be report the match and by many people and follow SM's taken action (if any). Also screenshots of conversations can be taken and send to SM as additional prove. 

Please do not mix other grievances with this issue. The GW owner can easily set the rules next season that one cannot buy a sold player for 2 months. I have had this in many CGWs. Since this is a small GW I suppose a shorter period is more appropriate. 

This is how CGWs develop and prolongs into many seasons by setting rules after every season that managers feel should be set. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Nerodesis said:

I have enjoyed playing SM for a number of years and check out the forum most days. The information posted and the efforts made by contributors is excellent so i was really interested to see how you got on playing in a league together. Turns out you are just as childish and petty as the rest of us. Maybe football brings out the worst in us. This was a big opportunity for the forum to push on and show the rest of us how to do things properly. You are blowing things badly and its not a good look!

Who the hell are you again?

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7 minutes ago, Nerodesis said:

I have enjoyed playing SM for a number of years and check out the forum most days. The information posted and the efforts made by contributors is excellent so i was really interested to see how you got on playing in a league together. Turns out you are just as childish and petty as the rest of us. Maybe football brings out the worst in us. This was a big opportunity for the forum to push on and show the rest of us how to do things properly. You are blowing things badly and its not a good look!

The last two lines made me laugh, so thanks for that. I'm only able to read this as sarcastic trolling.

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47 minutes ago, Nerodesis said:

I have enjoyed playing SM for a number of years and check out the forum most days. The information posted and the efforts made by contributors is excellent so i was really interested to see how you got on playing in a league together. Turns out you are just as childish and petty as the rest of us. Maybe football brings out the worst in us. This was a big opportunity for the forum to push on and show the rest of us how to do things properly. You are blowing things badly and its not a good look!

You what ? 

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1 hour ago, Nerodesis said:

I have enjoyed playing SM for a number of years and check out the forum most days. The information posted and the efforts made by contributors is excellent so i was really interested to see how you got on playing in a league together. Turns out you are just as childish and petty as the rest of us. Maybe football brings out the worst in us. This was a big opportunity for the forum to push on and show the rest of us how to do things properly. You are blowing things badly and its not a good look!

You can’t tar everyone with the same brush. Most of us have enjoyed a good season against great competition and not been involved in any controversy 

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19 hours ago, Lost soul said:

I didn't think what Pop Tate did was cheating, per se. Still don't. Disgraceful but not something I'd force someone to quit over.

I'm more concerned about the way it was handled. All jaybee had to do was simply reprimand him and draw the line. Maybe Van Sheikh and Vinny wouldn't have been too happy, but there's no way it'd have escalated to what it has now.

Instead, he went off a tangent, indulging in whataboutism. Not a single word against Pop Tate. Calling it a lesser offence than buying back players for profit is bizarre.

Everyone can sell their players and buy them back, and everyone is free to stop someone from buying a player back. Maybe it can't happen in real life. That's cause players can't decide for themselves in a game. Similarly, there's no way a small team IRL would be able to buy world class players like we do in the game but again it is what it is.

At any rate, there's no way it's in the same league as a match fixer affecting relegation (A remorseless gloating one at that!). 

I refuse to believe jaybee is involved in it (hope no one's actively suggesting it) but if you're the only one benefited from it AND the only one defending it vehemently, it's not a good look. As all you had to do was simply warn him, it was a strange hill to die on @jaybee

You may genuinely believe in what I think is bizzare logic, and feel that buying back players is less ethical. You may still believe it's not cheating and that Pop Tate has been harshly treated. You're entitled to your opinion.

But it doesn't matter at this point.

If you want to salvage the GW ...and your credibility, Pop Tate has to go. 

I didn't think it was cheating either, but it's the only way out now. Bring back Vinny and Nick, Thorgan can replace Pop, a huge upgrade from Petty Tate, if you ask me.

Or you could continue to fight for his innocence and I'd imagine that's not gonna end amicably.

I still have hope for the GW. But that depends on what you decide to do @jaybee

 

I absolutely have nothing to do with it but no one seems to have an issue with Van Sheikh accusing me of that.

I've always been a trusted manager and have good relationships with the majority of people on here. I ty and help others too with my threads too. 

I understand that people are not happy with what took place on last day but one game does not define a season.

I would have had no issue if I had been relegated. Instead, I'd be doing everything I can to show what a good manager I am by getting promoted back to top flight.

 

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1 hour ago, jaybee said:

I absolutely have nothing to do with it but no one seems to have an issue with Van Sheikh accusing me of that.

I've always been a trusted manager and have good relationships with the majority of people on here. I ty and help others too with my threads too. 

I understand that people are not happy with what took place on last day but one game does not define a season.

I would have had no issue if I had been relegated. Instead, I'd be doing everything I can to show what a good manager I am by getting promoted back to top flight.

 

Is this your attempt to get sympathy votes ? Again digressing from point on hand. So elusive.. Iv not accused you, you have landed yourself in this and keep digging a bigger hole. You doing what you did for SM community with threads etc has nothing to do with you destroying a GW by siding with a self confessed petty cheat. Talking about everything under the sun and defending him.. insulting the intelligence and commitment of top notch managers ... and then coming on here and saying “you have been accused..”. Wow. Please just stop. You have all but destoryed your credibility in SM. You refuse to even attempt to salvage the GW. Everyone who has posted has eluded to that, even dropping you hints to try. I wanted you to, that’s why hung back in hope that Vinny and Nick (later Jack) will all come back and u will fight for that. But damn! How can you not be suspicious of your own behaviour. . Siding with the cheat, where u were the only benefactor. There is no accusation here... just stating facts - you can come to your own conclusion.  

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10 hours ago, jaybee said:

I absolutely have nothing to do with it but no one seems to have an issue with Van Sheikh accusing me of that.

I've always been a trusted manager and have good relationships with the majority of people on here. I ty and help others too with my threads too. 

I understand that people are not happy with what took place on last day but one game does not define a season.

I would have had no issue if I had been relegated. Instead, I'd be doing everything I can to show what a good manager I am by getting promoted back to top flight.

I agree that those accusations were not right either.

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No point in getting into this since I seem to have missed out on most of the controversy. I always thought having a democracy setup where we all know each other and can come to rational decisions together was a bit idyllic, but at the start of this GW we seemed to have put our trust in Jay to run this thing. Now there seems to be a lot of disagreement on the way he wants to execute that. Think that leaves us two options: renegotiate the expectations of this setup and come to an agreement on that, or let Jay put down his foot on what he wants for this Gw and let every manager decide for themselves if they want to play along with that. 

I'm willing to stay but I do think that requires clarity on the setup in which we move forward.

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12 hours ago, jaybee said:

I absolutely have nothing to do with it but no one seems to have an issue with Van Sheikh accusing me of that.

I've always been a trusted manager and have good relationships with the majority of people on here. I ty and help others too with my threads too. 

I understand that people are not happy with what took place on last day but one game does not define a season.

I would have had no issue if I had been relegated. Instead, I'd be doing everything I can to show what a good manager I am by getting promoted back to top flight.

 

I'm confused at why you dug a hole for yourself. Everyone knows you are a trusted manager. Everyone were only having a go at Pop Tate.

One game does not define a season but it doesn't change the fact that it was disgraceful, setting a bad precedent. Again, all you had to say was, 'I don't condone this in my GW'. No hard decisions, just a rap on the knuckle. 

Why defend him to the hilt, bring up irrelevant arguments, cherry pick minor points to debate over- semantics and phrasing, while not addressing the issue in hand?

Why refuse to acknowledge the wrongdoing, even after the offender himself has confessed that he fixed the game to get back at a manager and admitted it was unsportsmanlike? 

You are the only one saying, "nothing wrong has been done" while being the only one being benefited from it, even Pop Tate agrees it's wrong. 

I'm not saying you are involved in the fixing, but why dig a hole for yourself? Condoning the match fixing would've taken much less effort, while salvaging the GW and your credibility... Very bizzare

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Spot on Lost Soul.  That is why I left.  This should have never gotten this far.  A simple “this is not okay” and this world stays mostly untarnished.  But with how far JBee went to defend Petty Fez... I just don’t understand it and I will not wait around for the next event to ruin more of what was a great atmosphere.

Fez let a person management style and different personalities (I have yet to see any evidence of abuse in February) get to him and made a very poor choice.  This did affect the league standings (and thus prize money) and could have affected who was relegated if the games had not finished the way they did.  This was a childish action and JBee’s support for it baffles me.

Then we add to all the exchanges that followed in the game world (I can only imagine the PMs).  I can understand vZ’s reaction but all of the posts going back and forth were a bit much for me.  As the General Manager of a world, I would expect a calm and fair response from JBee.  Instead JBee saw nothing wrong with Fez’s actions, decided get into the mud, and went even farther by using false equivalence.

I’ll say it again, this should have never lasted more than 24 hours.  Make a statement that this was unsportsmanlike.  Give a mild punishment to Fez.  And then things are cleared up going forward.  As it stands now, I have no idea what JBee thinks is okay and what he might frown upon and I am not going to be there for the next event.

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All of above comments are relevant and fair IMO. The thing that baffles me is that JBee has supported to the hilt Pop Tate knowing that established, well respected forumers and managers in their own right are and have chosen to leave the very good and challenging gameworld and he seems to be ok with that instead of taking the low road and dishing out some kind of discipline to Pop and everything would have been dealt with!! Instead the gameworld is falling apart daily and all thats going to happen is that more will follow and leave and practically close the gameworld instead of doing the right thing to start with!! I have the utmost respect for JBee as a forumer and manager but I just cannot understand the stand he is taking defending someone who in the majority of the other fellow managers did something that was in the gutter!! Surely it's obvious that if 95% of people say it was in bad taste and wrong for what happened to have happened then surely thats the take JBee should have too?? 

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7 hours ago, Sir Rahul said:

I agree that those accusations were not right either.

There were no accusations. Only facts and series of events have been stated or referred to. @jaybee randomly has been defending to the bemusement of everyone. As mentioned by @Lost souland others - pop Tate isn’t even defending himself. Only the benefactor is. That’s not an accusation. It’s a fact. In the Gw, my very first post questioned Monza line up. Nothing accusatory or alleged towards JBee. But he made it like that himself. How can an impartial mind not think that something else is at play here now. No integrity left in Gw, that’s why everyone is leaving. For me he has lost all credibility and he did that himself by exposing. He’s actually done the same in the other Gw in last 24-36 hours where managers aren’t happy with him because he’s going on about buying and selling is cheating but match fixing isn’t. The whole world is wrong and against JBee it seems. Simple solution was : kick Monza out for integrity of GW. That’s it. Move on. 

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I'm going to say 1 thing, because I wasn't in the GW, but why does it take such a time for me to get in ? Someone else applied for Belenenses a bit later, because I had to wait too long to be honest. Then I apply for another team, but didn't apply any more because someone said to have this team for the manager who left them. 

I declined an offer and left a team in an interesting GW to be in this GW. Why do I have to try so much and needs to wait a week ? 

I'm trying for 2 - 3 weeks to get in, but now It's enough to be honest. That's another problem.. :)

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47 minutes ago, thorgan lesar said:

I'm going to say 1 thing, because I wasn't in the GW, but why does it take such a time for me to get in ? Someone else applied for Belenenses a bit later, because I had to wait too long to be honest. Then I apply for another team, but didn't apply any more because someone said to have this team for the manager who left them. 

I declined an offer and left a team in an interesting GW to be in this GW. Why do I have to try so much and needs to wait a week ? 

I'm trying for 2 - 3 weeks to get in, but now It's enough to be honest. That's another problem.. :)

To be fair, most managers said they were fine with you joining but the majority said only at the end of the season, which is just coming to an end now. Don't need to cause for guys where it is not needed.

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My last say on this 'scandal':

I won't leave over it. Monza hasn't endeared himself to me (and others) but that's just football; things happen, rivalries are created. I look forward to the challenges ahead and hope we can all carry on what has been a very competitive GW. I will say going forward, it should continue to be frownd upon to play your weakest team but ultimately it's your choice, if you don't mind being unpopular then go ahead.

Bring it on.

Moving in, I hope we all try to respect the unwritten rules (be honest at all times and honour others as you wish to be honoured yourself) and if anyone has a problem with anything, hopefully it can get sorted on here, amicably, before the need to seek revenge. 

Hopefully we can all move on now. I look forward to the challenges next season brings.

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1 hour ago, thorgan lesar said:

I'm going to say 1 thing, because I wasn't in the GW, but why does it take such a time for me to get in ? Someone else applied for Belenenses a bit later, because I had to wait too long to be honest. Then I apply for another team, but didn't apply any more because someone said to have this team for the manager who left them. 

I declined an offer and left a team in an interesting GW to be in this GW. Why do I have to try so much and needs to wait a week ? 

I'm trying for 2 - 3 weeks to get in, but now It's enough to be honest. That's another problem.. :)

Hi Thorgan, it was me who told you not to apply for that specific team, because I hoped that the situation could be salvaged and we could bring the original manager back in. Apparently, this is not the case, and many more managers left. But it seems that the replacement with other non-forumer managers has begun (I have seen at least one, who I actually know from other GWs and he is a good manager, but it doesn't matter). I guess you are welcome to apply for any team now.

Anyway, I particularly agree with what Laura said: we need clarity to know which direction the setup is going in.

I will wait for a few more days, but if no clear and transparent decisions are taken for the future of the GW, I too will sadly leave.

 

PS: Happy Easter averyone who celebrates it! :) 

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17 minutes ago, gyanthecat said:

Hi Thorgan, it was me who told you not to apply for that specific team, because I hoped that the situation could be salvaged and we could bring the original manager back in. Apparently, this is not the case, and many more managers left. But it seems that the replacement with other non-forumer managers has begun (I have seen at least one, who I actually know from other GWs and he is a good manager, but it doesn't matter). I guess you are welcome to apply for any team now.

Anyway, I particularly agree with what Laura said: we need clarity to know which direction the setup is going in.

I will wait for a few more days, but if no clear and transparent decisions are taken for the future of the GW, I too will sadly leave.

 

PS: Happy Easter averyone who celebrates it! :) 

Btw, just to make it clear, I think that accepting external managers without having asked anyone's opinion, and without even trying to solve the ongoing issues first and bring back the old managers is another poor choice, and in my eyes another reason to leave the GW.

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47 minutes ago, gyanthecat said:

Btw, just to make it clear, I think that accepting external managers without having asked anyone's opinion, and without even trying to solve the ongoing issues first and bring back the old managers is another poor choice, and in my eyes another reason to leave the GW.

Another star ! Another insult to the ones who left and are still there. I don’t have a vendetta against the GW. In fact quite the opposite. It was set up to be awesome but just destroyed by ridiculous handling. Just hiding.. hiding and more hiding (the sole benefactor continues to be dismissive).. clearly this will/ may come across as being anti JBee but again I’m just stating the facts and series events as they happened and continue to happen. Undermines the whole point of its set up. (I’m genuinely gutted because I really liked Santos). I left without destroying the team as a Mark of respect to others, but these are things u don’t need to set rules for, these are unspoken courtesies. Just like asking everyone if it’s ok to get random managers in. Or as a courtesy checking in with managers who left. Or as a courtesy posting a message on the forum instead of being defensive and evasive. 

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