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The Official Cycling Thread

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

So glad:D' date='I've always hated him and preferred Schleck:),it could easily be food contimination but I honestly don't believe it is,It tarnishes the sport again but to be honest I'd rather them be found and kicked out and it shows the test is working in many senses,he says the system needs to be looked at now his been found guilty but never mentioned it before that.[/quote']

Some doctor said that it is impossible to get those amounts from any pork meat, that basically Contador would have had to bath in pigsty and eat pig faeces and pig food to get those amounts. Since it has not been claimed, et alone proven, that he had done so, I say he is as guilty as it gets. Anyway, time of the great Spanish doping scandal there was another doctor saying that he has all the papers to prove that Contador was one of the doped, but since Contador had not joined any competition that year (he claimed being sick to death) he was not tested and moreover, had made a deal with investigation that he testifies against the others, but will not be charged himself. This was year before his first Tour de France victory. That already smelled like pig faeces to me. Have always hated him for knowing that he is full of, well, pig faeces. Go Voeckler!!!

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

Some doctor said that it is impossible to get those amounts from any pork meat' date=' that basically Contador would have had to bath in pigsty and eat pig faeces and pig food to get those amounts. Since it has not been claimed, et alone proven, that he had done so, I say he is as guilty as it gets. Anyway, time of the great Spanish doping scandal there was another doctor saying that he has all the papers to prove that Contador was one of the doped, but since Contador had not joined any competition that year (he claimed being sick to death) he was not tested and moreover, had made a deal with investigation that he testifies against the others, but will not be charged himself. This was year before his first Tour de France victory. That already smelled like pig faeces to me. Have always hated him for knowing that he is full of, well, pig faeces. Go Voeckler!!![/quote']

I can't see it been coincidental that this is the first year his really struggled and looked a shadow of what he was,watching Lance Armstrong win was because he was prepared to push himself further than anyone else would during the Tour,as for Contador this tour seems to confirm doubts about his doping past,he looks like he can't keep up on this Tour although he blames it on a knee injury sustained earlier on the Tour.

I don't like the bloke because of Chaingate last year,just a complete lack of class towards Schleck and he knew exactly what he was doing,much prefer Schleck or Evans to win anyway,It'd be great to see Voeckler win as well,his as shocked as anyone his still in the Yellow jersey and has been great all tour,but with just a 15 second gap over Andy Schleck who will attack again tomorrow to get more of an advantage over Cadel Evans before the time trial I think tomorrow is the day the dream ends unfortunately.

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

The heroic tale of this Tour is Thomas Voeckler. It is very unlikely he would win the competition, but it doesn't matter. If he won't lose the Maillot Jaune tomorrow, he will lose it in the time trial, for 15 seconds is not enough to keep Scheck behind him when riding contre la montre. That doesn't matter, the point is, already when he went to search for the Maillot Jaune, when he saw his chance, he knew he is not the best, fittest rider of this Tour. He just wanted to get it and fight for it as long as he can. And that's the point: the fighting spirit of Voeckler.

With Schelk bros, Evans, Sanchez, Contador, Basso, other big names, Voeckler isn't quite of their level when it comes to basic fitness, he isn't tactically as wise, he isn't as top and he knows it. But he is a fighter, already when he first got the Maillot Jaune back when he was just a youngster, he showed his mental toughness by clinging to it even when it was apparent that he was dying on the mountains. Again, he said that going to mountains with pace of the big names is killing him, but the Maillot Jaune gives him enough motivation to hurt himself real bad in order to do it. He kept the Jersey even after today's highest peak of history of Tour de France, with help of his team mate Pierre Rolland - a youngster, I recall first time on Tour - who finished 6th just after him. They just tag along Evans and fought it, even when Contador was unable to follow the speed. Afterwards he said that when they approached the finish they were asking from themselves what are they doing there - meaning, what are they doing in this group of Schelks and Evans, at the top of this hellish mountain. And remember, even the mountain before gave hell to riders, actually many think it is even worse (though it is not that high).

To help the English get the right perspective, think about if someone who's not amongst the top 50 ranked in Tennis, perhaps hardly in top 100, an English lad, courageous and strong spirited, maybe once somewhat promising, but already ageing and known to just not being one of the world's best, would suddenly get to Wimbledon finals after a huge fight, beating Nadal on the way. This is what is happening here: tomorrow is the Tour de France finals, finals of the biggest tournament of what is hugely popular sport in France, a local tournment which is even more important, and there are two Schecks, one Evans and one bloody Voeckler involved and it is amazing. Shaking off Contador today was his Nadal. And that with Rolland, who beat all the other youngsters by minutes today to help Voeckler to the top, which makes it even better, because there's a team work of these two fellows of a small racing team, two guys who know they're in wrong company but fight 'til the end, give all they have and see where it gets them, never giving up, helping each other to get there (of course, there's the little advantage that who knows, Rolland might become something great in future). Moreover, you must understand that Voeckler is the hero of France, exactly because he is more courageous than wise, more a fighter than he is classy, a strong spirited people's man. He is the one that the French would like to see winning, I mean amongst all the French cyclists. This has been a great Tour.

@andyowls: I agree though, that there has been awful many crashes (though there always is) and that car crash was unforgivable. Notice, by the way, that Voeckler would probably have had even more advantage if that hadn't happened. For two reasons: 1) he got bit hurt in that as well (Flecha hit his leg when falling) and, more importantly 2) they had a deal with Hoogerland that Hoogerland can finish first at the top of every mountain if he goes to the end with Voeckler in this escape. They were the two doing the work and Hoogerland seriously helped Voeckler in his breakaway. After Hoogerland was gone, Voeckler did almost all the work in the last rise, which not only made the result worse but tired him some more. He would probably still have a minute or two of advantage without that accident.

Edit: I was exaggerating a bit with my description of Voeckler and Rolland, they are no nobodies. Voeckler would be around 50 ranked, I think, has some achievements in his career, notably is a former champion of France. Always been a rider able to make surprises on tour. Rolland is indeed a huge promise, that has been half spoiled by hyping him too much too soon. But that doesn't make the tale any worse.

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

Today's big time hero was of course Andy Schleck. Remember, he was already thought not being up to the competition. His brother did better than him, Evans and Contador seemed stronger, particularly Evans. Then he did this, alone to win this biggest mountain and suddenly he is minute ahead of Evans and almost as much ahead Frank. Great work, Andy.

Not wanting to be a pessimist, it is however true that this might have been a bit desperate from him. He seems to be in a good form, but don't forget, he made more work than Evans, Frank and others today, and he will be more tired. But, it was a successful attack, he is in the competition now, and dropped Contador out. He has the advantage of being able to work with his brother, Evans doesn't have that good help, he is more alone. And everybody knows that now Evans is the one who must attack, the others will follow him.

Contador indeed is out: the ones who drop from the leader group, who try, but can't, are always ones that lose most energy, that have it harder than the others, and won't recover as well for the next day. That's why I knew immediately that when Landis won a stage with amazing escape after having suffered in the speed of others just the day before, he had doped. It was obvious, everybody knew it. Likewise, if Contador is tomorrow tougher than Evans or Frank Schleck, even Andy Schleck he has taken something illegal in order to come back to the competition. I see that there are better chances that Voeckler clings to Evans and Schlecks than Contador doing that, he must be wasted right now (not that Voeckler wouldn't be, but Voeckler survived it better which may read that he has more energy left, or that he just is that much tougher mentally).

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

I can't see it been coincidental that this is the first year his really struggled and looked a shadow of what he was' date='watching Lance Armstrong win was because he was prepared to push himself further than anyone else would during the Tour,as for Contador this tour seems to confirm doubts about his doping past,he looks like he can't keep up on this Tour although he blames it on a knee injury sustained earlier on the Tour.

I don't like the bloke because of Chaingate last year,just a complete lack of class towards Schleck and he knew exactly what he was doing,much prefer Schleck or Evans to win anyway,It'd be great to see Voeckler win as well,his as shocked as anyone his still in the Yellow jersey and has been great all tour,but with just a 15 second gap over Andy Schleck who will attack again tomorrow to get more of an advantage over Cadel Evans before the time trial I think tomorrow is the day the dream ends unfortunately.[/quote']

True. Contador has never been a gentleman that is expected from the cyclists and his lack of fair play suggests a lack of courage - he fears to fight on even ground, tries to use the weak points, like this time that he attacked on descent (what a loser, the real winners attack on ascent). There's no glory in his victories, and all I want is a glorious winner.

I already posted on Voeckler, but yes, me too, I hope for Voeckler, though it is very improbable. In fact, I hope for it a lot because it is so improbable.

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

If Contador wins this stage, I'm quasi sure he will also give a positive test this evening. Like Landis few years ago.

Edit: I still believe he doped. After dying in the last ascent yesterday, he was not in condition to beat Schlecks and Evans today, no way, he doped.

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

IMO' date=' the top 3 is found.. let's know the order.. Andy vs Evans for the first and Franck for the 3rd place with some chances of Contador reaching there..[/quote']

If Contador makes it there, it's sure that he has doped. So: Schlecks and Evans, in whatever order. Evans should be the strongest in time trial, but is he that much stronger is the question.

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

If Contador makes it there' date=' it's sure that he has doped. So: Schlecks and Evans, in whatever order. Evans should be the strongest in time trial, but is he that much stronger is the question.[/quote']

I think Schleck has the ability to spring a surprise tomorrow,personally I think his time trialing is quite underrated and whilst Evans is the better time-trialer 54 seconds is a massive gap to make up,I remember everyone thought Contador would make massive time on Schleck yet he only gained 39 seconds,considering Schleck seems to have improved further since then his got a slim chance,however the probable outcome is that Evans wins the Time Trial and the Yellow Jersey tomorrow,makes a nice change to see one of two riders who put everything they have into to the tour winning though.

Hopefully Voeckler can get on the podium tomorrow as well,he fully deserves it:).

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Respuesta: Re: The Official Cycling Thread

True. Contador has never been a gentleman that is expected from the cyclists and his lack of fair play suggests a lack of courage - he fears to fight on even ground' date=' tries to use the weak points, like this time that he attacked on descent (what a loser, the real winners attack on ascent). There's no glory in his victories, and all I want is a glorious winner.

I already posted on Voeckler, but yes, me too, I hope for Voeckler, though it is very improbable. In fact, I hope for it a lot because it is so improbable.[/quote']

What a looser, who? Contador? The one who won 3 of the last 4 Tours, two Giros and one Vuelta? Ja Ja Ja.

Contador is the best cyclist on the world. And in one Tour he does worse, French criticize him. When was the last time that a French won the Tour? I wasn't born. And a Spanish? The last 5.

Voeckler is doped. It's impossible that this cyclist stays fourth in the classification withouth take illegal substances. But as the only French who had possibilities to win the Tour...

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Re: Respuesta: Re: The Official Cycling Thread

What a looser' date=' who? Contador? The one who won 3 of the last 4 Tours, two Giros and one Vuelta? Ja Ja Ja.

Contador is the best cyclist on the world. And in one Tour he does worse, French criticize him. When was the last time that a French won the Tour? I wasn't born. And a Spanish? The last 5.

Voeckler is doped. It's impossible that this cyclist stays fourth in the classification withouth take illegal substances. But as the only French who had possibilities to win the Tour...[/quote']

What good is it winning all those titles if he was on Drugs and that made all the difference? if you win by drugs it's not a win at all IMO.

On form Contador is the best,of that there is no doubt,and the French press can criticise him as much as they like,just because they haven't won the tour in a while doesn't mean they can't have an opinion on a rider.

And Voeckler doped? haha what a stupid statement that is,honestly his just been completely inspired by the Yellow Jersey and gave everything he had to keep it,the whole of Europcar got behind him and by doing this they managed to keep it for 10 days,his been willing t push himself to new limits to keep the Jersey and that's why his done so well.

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Re: Respuesta: Re: The Official Cycling Thread

What a looser' date=' who? Contador? The one who won 3 of the last 4 Tours, two Giros and one Vuelta? Ja Ja Ja.

Contador is the best cyclist on the world. And in one Tour he does worse, French criticize him. When was the last time that a French won the Tour? I wasn't born. And a Spanish? The last 5.

Voeckler is doped. It's impossible that this cyclist stays fourth in the classification withouth take illegal substances. But as the only French who had possibilities to win the Tour...[/quote']

Actually, this years tour may be one of the least doped for long times (if not ever), and a kind of prove of it has been the small marginal of differences. It is widely reckoned that success of such as Voeckler are proves of purity. In fact, it's not only Voeckler improving, if you check out the lists from last 6 years, the top of cyclists, the impossibly strong cyclists, have been tested positive and an't compete due to that (though I recall there was something about Basso as well). Only Evans and Basso are left from the crazy years and Evans was hardly ever overpowering, while Basso in fact was doped during his strong days. This doesn't change that it is very probable that all winners of all times have used doping and very probably that will also be the case of this years winner, and that of year after, whom ever they might be.

Here, for example, formerly doped Bernhard Kohl says that all top cyclists use doping all the time.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/05/sports/cycling/05cycling.html

What I wanted to point out is that most of 21st century top cyclists have already been tested positive and don't compete this year. Even amongst those who compete there's Basso, tested positive and is now probably quite clean. The anti-doping work has been somewhat successful, but nevertheless, if there are no positive tests and the speed still is quite high, perhaps there's something wrong.

Anyway, this has nothing to do with nationalities. I love Sastre - and before him Valverde and Mayo were both my favourites and I was shocked when they were tested positive. You should read better why I called Contador a loser. Not because he wouldn't win, nor that he wouldn't be doing well this time, in fact he remained a favourite for the French press for quite long, just until he really was shaken off by others. I call him a loser because he shows bad sports, he attacks when others have chains dropped, he attacks in descent, he dopes, he testifies against others and is himself doped. Contador is a loser who wins, that's it, and nothing makes him a true winner, because there's no glory in that guy. A glorious defeat is better than an inglorious victory. Since his first victory 2007, even before that, it was clear that Contador dopes. It was directly after the big Spanish doping lab scandal (known by name Operation Puerto, there was a doctor called Fuentes, serving cyclists of many nations and teams, but obviously quite many Spanish top riders were involved), in which Contador was involved, but impossible to accuse because he was in professional sports that year (so gave no positive test samples) and made a deal that he testifies against others so he can't be accused. It has ever been clear that he dopes. It's not that he wouldn't be strong otherwise as well, and could perhaps have even won some of his competitions without drugs, but this streak of his, it is all because of doping and we don't actually know how good he would be without it. He was promising already before the 2006 doping year when he was on sick leave from competitions, but he only started to really win after that.

If you'd cycle yourself you would understand that what Contador did yesterday is kind of against the laws of nature - unless he dopes, of course. You will see it today: Voeckler will do badly in the time trial. He killed himself yesterday and thus is in worse position to make it back for today. But Contador, likewise, was dead meat the day before yesterday. He didn't survive the last ascent, he was dropped. Suddenly, yesterday he was in the top form. It doesn't go like that. This late, if he loses it, and there's no rest day in between, he can't suddenly come back stronger than Evans who had not suffered as much on the mountains before. It's like this: 1) the one who cycles alone suffers the most. 2) Those who escape use more energy than those who stay in the peloton. 3) However, the most wasted are always those who try to follow the great escape and fail, those who try to push for the victory, but end up being finishing alone, wasted. This sets the conditions of the recovery: those who go to category three are out of next days competition, in particular if its mountains again. That happened to Contador the day before yesterday, yet yesterday he wasted more energy than anybody, escaping twice and shaking of Evans in the end. It's not only Landis who has done this miracle recovery. I recall Vinokurov winning time trial by large margin after having suffered through the mountains. The Tour time trial is not a normal time trial, it usually goes for the cyclist who is in the strongest general fit, not for the best time trialist. So it was a surprise, and thus it was not a surprise that Vinokurov gave a positive test sample after his victory. Contador may be saved by not winning: winners are always tested, but I do not recall that 3rd placed would be tested automatically.

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

It's great that there still is suspension today. Yesterday was another exciting, dramatic day of Tour. The first decisive point was when Contador, A. Schleck, Evans and Voeckler were chasing the lead group. Evans and in particular Voeckler were just following the other two who were doing most of the work. So, I was dead wrong about that Evans should attack on last mountains: apparently both he and Andy thought that he is so much better than Andy in time trial that Andy still must attack. Contador, obviously, had a huge work to do to remain in competition, because he had already fallen out of it. Voeckler, on the other hand, did what he has done ever since he got the Maillot Jaune: clinged to Contador and Evans.

Then, something dramatic happened. There was some kind of not absolutely clear mechanical problem in Evans' bike on the first true ascent. He dropped from the group and Contador and Scheck decided to use their opportunity and speeded up. Voeckler, who was just hanging behind Evans, was immediately dropped as the cyclist who was the connection between him and the other two, dropped from between. He appeared to take a look at Evans, seeing if he can continue, before deciding to try and follow Contador. At that point, it was too late: Schelck and Contador had some 10-20 seconds of advantage and were giving all they had to chase up the lead group. At that point, Voeckler did what was ultimately an idiotic decision he decided to chase them alone, while Evans was practically forced to return to the peloton. Knowing that there were still two HC mountains to climb after this, so that this breakaway surely was not decisive, this was something utterly stupid to do by Voeckler, who should have followed Evans to Peloton, where there were still also Franck Schleck and few others. Schleck and Contador were together, while Voeckler had to do his work alone, there was no way he would catch them. Then, more troubling is that the first two were going to catch up with the lead group before Voeckler. Now, the problem is that this lead group can escape effectively, sharing the duties, while Voeckler is going to kill himself while chasing after them, in impossible task. It was an amazing show, but we knew from the beginning that he would fail, that he would only lose all his energy and when Evans and the peloton would catch him, eventually, he wouldn't be able to follow them, but would drop from the competition. This is what happened.

I think it was at the top of the mountain where Voeckler made his final decision. When he caught Pineau who decided to drag Thomas up the mountain. Encouraged by this, he decided to do what was still impossible: to catch the lead group alone. Later he met Flecha, who continued with him for a while, but all the time he kept forgetting the fact that the reason he got the company of these guys was that they were not tough enough to follow the speed of Schleck and Contador. He was clearly faster than those of the lead group and didn't lose to Schleck and Contador for a long time, but still, trying to chase them down alone was a suicide mission, that resulted just as such: he killed himself in the first HC, going it up alone. This was tactically an idiotic decision, but fits Voeckler perfectly. He is not the best strategist, but he is courageous and decided to try and catch the escape. He has never been one to compete for the general victory, because he is so crazy about escapes.

Well, then Evans and others indeed caught the lead group. It was expected. There were two HC mountains left and there were plenty of strong cyclists left in peloton, not all of the best were in escape. This was the second decisive point: Andy Schleck, after working so hard throughout the stage, was caught by Evans. I'm sure Evans, who's team made magnificent work for him, is in better fit today than Andy.

In the end, Contador escaped yet once, but it was another escape, that seemed quite stupid at first, that caught everybody's eye. Young Pierre Rolland rolled to victory, escaping from the lead group just before the final ascent. It seems like pretty bad place to make your move to me, because if he indeed had more energy left as he had not been working as much as others, more following, because he had no intention to make the others grow their distance to his captain Voeckler (who admirably let him follow Evans while Chartreau and Coppel stayed back helping Thomas), I would have expected him to still let Contador and Schleck do the work and only to escape in the end of the mountain. Then again, Rolland is a super prospect, who could be higher on the table had he not helped Voeckler through the mountains, and apparently he knew what to do. Contador eventually caught him and passed by, but he was in a good position to catch him: Contador made a strong burst to make distance, but after making the distance he wasn't able to continue on higher speed than Rolland. Rolland did what Armstrong did to Basso so many times: erased the difference slowly, knowing that the sudden burst is more exhausting than the constant rise of speed. When Sanchez caught Rolland, the game was clear: they would catch Contador and be in better position to win the race after Contador had wasted his energy in as many as two unsuccessful breakaways. Rolland's victory on such a huge stage was a great addition to his Tour after he had done great work to help Voeckler up the mountain the day before. Now he's got the Maillot Blanc. I was actually wrong about him, this is his third Tour. I haven't followed the last two or three all that much, so hadn't paid attention. He has always been promising, but there has been just too much hype around him. Let's hope this is the beginning of him becoming the champion that he could be, because he surely doesn't lack potential. This was the third decisive point, sort of, because Sanchez won the climber competition and Rolland won the youth competition. Congratulations to winners: Cavendish, Sanchez and Rolland! And now to wait for the winner of the general competition.

Voeckler wouldn't have been in a Tour winning position anyway. He is not good enough in time trial to keep even Schleck behind him if there's only 15 seconds difference, but it seems like, after all, he could have kept the Maillot Jaune for one more day. I'm absolutely serious. In aftermath we can say, that if he had not tried to follow Contador's first escape, but had returned to the peloton with Evans where all his team was as well, he could have well been able to follow Evans and others 'til the end. But then we would have not seen Rolland's victory and Voeckler's amazingly stupid but just as courageous fight for impossible. Maybe it was worth it. My guess for the final winner... Evans. Schlecks are strong and this will be a tough competition but I believe Andy is more tired after yesterday than Evans is.

Edit: It was slightly premature to congratulate Cavendish and Rolland. Cavendish only had 15 points advantage to Rojas before today, and the distance between Rolland and Taaramae wasn't but 1m33s, and there were enough points to be shared for Rojas to theoretically catch Cavendish, while Taaramae is really good against the clock, so it was also possible for him to still win Rolland. Rolland kept 35s advantage for tomorrow's short triumph that is not a real contest in that sense (no one will win any serious competition in Créteil-Paris by 35 seconds), while Rojas didn't, no surprise, win today, so now it's safe to congratulate the winners.

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

....and it is pretty safe to say that Evans is the winner. Second intermediate time already 1.42 ahead of Andy Schleck, Franck and Contador both lost to Evans already, as did Voeckler. So, congratulations, Cadel Evans!

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

....and it is pretty safe to say that Evans is the winner. Second intermediate time already 1.42 ahead of Andy Schleck' date=' Franck and Contador both lost to Evans already, as did Voeckler. So, congratulations, Cadel Evans![/quote']

Beat me to it Didi. That was one hell of a ride from Evans there. Andy and Franck both look somewhat lethargic after their efforts in the mountains the past couple of days.

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

The Giro d'Italia started, 3rd stage today and watching as we speak :D

Cav won the sprint yesterday as pretty much expected and guess he'll win again today, just amazing how much speed he can build up! :D

So who's going to win the round? I'm putting my money on Kreuziger and Rodriguez.

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

So the Tour De France starts today with the Prologue,Wiggins has been made favourite for the Tour this due to his form this season and I think he was right in the mix last year before his unfortunate injury,I'd imagine it'd be between him and Cadel and as both are good time trialists I think the tour will be won and lost in the mountains,aside from them I really can't see anyone else who will win it.

I've always liked Bradley and thought he might have won last year had he stayed fit,I hope he does do it as I think he deserves his moment in the sun.

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

So the Tour De France starts today with the Prologue' date='Wiggins has been made favourite for the Tour this due to his form this season and I think he was right in the mix last year before his unfortunate injury,I'd imagine it'd be between him and Cadel and as both are good time trialists I think the tour will be won and lost in the mountains,aside from them I really can't see anyone else who will win it.

I've always liked Bradley and thought he might have won last year had he stayed fit,I hope he does do it as I think he deserves his moment in the sun.[/quote']

True-but really is overshadowed by the

Seven-time Tour de France winner Lance Armstrong has been formally charged with using performance-enhancing drugs by the US Anti-Doping Agency. story.

whether it is true or not cycling has been damaged worldwide-whether it was Contador and the super beef, Landis Libido or the EPO and festina.

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

True-but really is overshadowed by the

Seven-time Tour de France winner Lance Armstrong has been formally charged with using performance-enhancing drugs by the US Anti-Doping Agency. story.

whether it is true or not cycling has been damaged worldwide-whether it was Contador and the super beef' date=' Landis Libido or the EPO and festina.[/quote']

I actually think it's completely the opposite myself and I'm with Mark Cavendish on this one,what's the cleanest sport in the world? Cycling.

The fact is I'm sure there is guys in every signle sport in the world that dopes,I mean if people dope in Baseball just to hit a ball out of the stand then I'm sure it's done in every other sport as well,the reason it's more prevalent in Cycling is because they have effective tools that catches the cheaters.

In other sports the controls aren't as strong,the dopers don't get caught and everyone think it's a clean sport when it isn't,for example we have three guys in Wiggins/Schleck/Evans who are the best in cycling right now,none of these guys are acheiving superhuman times and all very realistic because of that,of course there will always be guys doping in Cycling trying to cheat the system and get ahead but they will eventually get caught,whereas in other sports they won't,I know this may sound stupid and I don't know the sport too well,but let's for example take a sport like Cricket.

Cricket have an anti drugs programme,but yet it can't be very effective at all as they simply haven't caught anyone at all using it,now you may say there all clean but if they do it for a sport fairly similar to Cricket in Baseball then surely they'll be someone doing the same,like for example with the spot fixing case last year,do you really believe there the only three cricketers to have done that? because I'd guess there has been more than three,there the only three to have been caught though.

If Lance is guilty then fine all his titles deserve to be taken away from him,the case against him doesn't seem too strong to me though and I'd expect he would be cleared in a trial situation.

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

I actually think it's completely the opposite myself and I'm with Mark Cavendish on this one' date='what's the cleanest sport in the world? Cycling.

The fact is I'm sure there is guys in every signle sport in the world that dopes,I mean if people dope in Baseball just to hit a ball out of the stand then I'm sure it's done in every other sport as well,the reason it's more prevalent in Cycling is because they have effective tools that catches the cheaters.

In other sports the controls aren't as strong,the dopers don't get caught and everyone think it's a clean sport when it isn't,for example we have three guys in Wiggins/Schleck/Evans who are the best in cycling right now,none of these guys are acheiving superhuman times and all very realistic because of that,of course there will always be guys doping in Cycling trying to cheat the system and get ahead but they will eventually get caught,whereas in other sports they won't,I know this may sound stupid and I don't know the sport too well,but let's for example take a sport like Cricket.

Cricket have an anti drugs programme,but yet it can't be very effective at all as they simply haven't caught anyone at all using it,now you may say there all clean but if they do it for a sport fairly similar to Cricket in Baseball then surely they'll be someone doing the same,like for example with the spot fixing case last year,do you really believe there the only three cricketers to have done that? because I'd guess there has been more than three,there the only three to have been caught though.

If Lance is guilty then fine all his titles deserve to be taken away from him,the case against him doesn't seem too strong to me though and I'd expect he would be cleared in a trial situation.[/quote']

I would have to say Curling might be the cleanest sport :D

Well not sure statistically if that proves it is the cleanest, based on the number caught compared to other sports.

I used to think the same about Marion Jones..and look how that turned out.

I just hope the tour brings the drama and competitiveness as in recent years.

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

I actually think it's completely the opposite myself and I'm with Mark Cavendish on this one' date='what's the cleanest sport in the world? Cycling.

[/quote']

Isn't it so that cycling anti-doping work still is not executed under WADA? This is one thing Tour organisers have been critical about before, yearly moaning that they will have their competition ruined because the anti-doping association is inefficient - and rightly so, seen how badly it has worked, because basically, all those doped riders should not have participated in the first place. I don't yet buy this cleanest sport thing and I tell you why: the pace hasn't dropped.

Yeah, there is doping in other sports as well, but cycling happens to be one of the sports in which the profit from doping is the greatest and thus is certainly not amongst the cleanest sports. Especially in these long competitions like Tour and Giro, it is extremely difficult to recover, day after day, from long climbs and fast time trials, to compete again. You see most of the guys out there well capable to make a good race some day. Then most of them do not cover for the next day. And some always do. There's of course also a difference of general endurance, fitness of the rider, but do not kid yourself, sometimes those recoveries are plain impossible.

Especially times when some of the top competitors dies in the last climb, and then just rides away the next day to make up the difference. À la Landis and Contador. already watching that, you know that they cheated. The guys who make the hard work to finish at the top, are exhausted; the guys who try to make it to finish first, but are dropped on the way, are practically dead. These latter are never naturally amongst the top riders the next day. The former may still have same or more left in them than the others who finished behind them, obviously, as they did not kill themselves to cope, but managed to finish amongst the first. However, doing that each and every stage, with the speeds that they go, with all those mountains... well, when something is unbelievable, usually it is not true.

I believe cycling is cleaner than it was few years ago, but it is hard to get rid of doping, because these tours are so extremely hard that you get huge profit from doping, and thus if somebody uses doping, the others cannot compete with him.

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

Cycling has definately become a lot cleaner in the past years and I think its not only because checks are more frequently and you have to fill in your whereabouts all the time, but also because the mentality is changing. Thinking about it, I've been following cycling for years now and if I'd be one of those young guys I wouldn't want to be using dope. Just think of it, there's a few years where half or more of the final top 10 have been suspended for using dope or are at least suspected of having used dope, you don't want that to be the future of the sport. I think and I hope that we're now past the biggest trouble and the new and upcoming will play the game fair because after all, that's the best way and most important for most guys is cycling itself, not winning.

About today, brilliant stage and easily the very best until now. A few who deserve a statue for their performances today, first of all Jens Voigt who's simply a hero, even at his age he easily beats half or even more of all of them out there. And next to him both Kessiakoff and Pinot deserve one too, very well done, great performances.

And the best thing was that the big guns threw themselves in the fight which showed who are up for the work and who aren't (pretty much the expected names imo). And real sad that Sammy Sanchez had to leave, was really looking forward to see him go downhill, still remember his amazing run of last year.

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

Yeah' date=' there is doping in other sports as well. However, cycling happens to be one of the sports in which the profit from doping is the greatest and thus is certainly not amongst the cleanest sports. Especially in these long competitions like Tour and Giro, it is extremely difficult to recover, day after day, from long climbs and fast time trials, to compete again. You see most of the guys out there well capable to make a good race some day. Then most of them do not cover for the next day. And some always do. There's of course also a difference of general endurance, fitness of the rider, but do not kid yourself, sometimes those recoveries are plain impossible.

Especially times when some of the top competitors dies in the last climb, and then just rides away the next day to make up the difference. À la Landis and Contador. already watching that, you know that they cheated. The guys who make the hard work to finish at the top, are exhausted; the guys who try to make it to finish first, but are dropped on the way, are practically dead. These latter are never naturally amongst the top riders the next day. The former may still have same or more left in them than the others who finished behind them, obviously, as they did not kill themselves to cope, but managed to finish amongst the first. However, doing that each and every stage, with the speeds that they go, with all those mountains... well, when something is unbelievable, usually it is not true.

I believe cycling is cleaner than it was few years ago, but it is hard to get rid of doping, because these tours are so extremely hard that you get huge profit from doping, and thus if somebody uses doping, the others cannot compete with him. Eventually you know it by watching who make it to the top day in day out, especially guys who do all Italy, Spain and France. They are doped.[/quote']

I do believe your right with what you say Didi,I'd just to love to see how many footballers and other sportsman would fail these drug tests if they had the drug sanctions that cycling does.

I didn't watch the Tour until 2007/08 so missed out on Landis and only caught up with Contador really,having watching Landis back though it was obvious he was doping,clearly thought the TDF was wide open and knew if he doped he would have won,but that actually encouraged me to start watching in the first place,I thought if Landis has doped and won clearly it suggested to me that the others weren't doping or it wasn't as bad as it was back in the 90's.

I watched the current GC riders last year and I don't believe they do dope,I remember the stage last year when Voeckler was in yellow and he absouletely destroyed himself just to keep it for a day,Schleck destroyed himself trying to get a gap to Evans for the upcoming time trial,and Evans destroyed himself trying to claw back as much time as he could,I may be proven wrong but they clearly looked like they wasn't doping to me,it's three men pushing themselves to the absoulete limit and achieve the goal of winning the yellow jersey,I've watched Landis and Contador do similar climbs and hardly even look tired afterwards,it was just cleared they doped to me,I don't sense or see that with the current GC riders in this Tour if I'm honest.

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