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The Official Cycling Thread

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

The list of Armstrong's team mates to testify against him:

Frankie Andreu' date=' Michael Barry, Tom Danielson, Tyler Hamilton, George Hincapie, Floyd Landis, Levi Leipheimer, Stephen Swart, Christian Vande Velde, Jonathan Vaughters et David Zabriskie.

Wow. That list has half of the guys who set the pace for him in the mountains during his victories (or more than half), but more than that, it has pretty much every strong American cyclist, bar Armstrong, from last decade. Wow.

Apparently there are a lot of other proofs, like bank transfers, medical tests and documents of communications.[/quote']

Not a surprise really Didi. The whole of cycling used to dope themselves up until recently.

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

Not a surprise really Didi. The whole of cycling used to dope themselves up until recently.

Which has been discussed here already. The point here was that it is a pretty impressive group of witnesses. Kind of sad one too.

In fact' date=' the [i']whole[/i] cycling has never been doped, there has always been clean riders, just the top has always used doping. And there are no reasons to believe that the top would be less doped than it was before. Nothing seems to have changed. The sport has indubitably become in large measures more clean since 1998, because after the Festina case at least many smaller teams have had an anti-doping policy. You can still see it in the "evidence on doping" list I posted: the bigger the team, the more suspect the riders. And there is a good logic for this: more money invested, more need to win and more cash available for effective doping. But a large part of cycling teams are quite poor and most certainly do not practice systematic doping.

This is another group of post-Festina riders doped. This time the group that most assures us of Armstrong's use of doping too. And these amounts of doped riders really leave us with no reasons to believe that any who have been able to compete in long courses would have been clean either.

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

Wonder if other parts of the sport has widespread doping as road cycling?

Probably not as much. Most have more efficient testing and sanctioning, but even more than that, in cycling the advantage you get from doping is the greatest.

I read that Ullrich was amongst those who stopped doping after the Festina-year. As said, from that year on there has also been serious anti-doping movement amongst the cyclists. But, it was added by Ullrich's former manager (or team mate or whatever, don't remember), he started again because Armstrong was so much superior. This may be a strategic statement as well, because it suggests that Ullrich did not use doping during those few seasons that he he came second after Armstrong, thus justifying his titles when they is stripped from Armstrong. I doubt the truth of this statement, but seen the massive supremacy of U.S. Postal, it could also be that those first few years after Festina the one team least affected by it was the only one that used doping. I'm not saying it is so, but it can be. It is by now clear that they did and that they were ahead others in doping, they held advantage in it in any event, but it could also be that those would have otherwise been the few (relatively) clean seasons of cycling. Maybe. If Ullrich was clean, which I doubt, then probably so were most of the others.

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

Probably not as much. Most have more efficient testing and sanctioning' date=' but even more than that, in cycling the advantage you get from doping is the greatest.

[/quote']

So there would less of an advantage with respect to indoor cycling?

Maybe the tour is just too hard?

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

I still have Stephen Roche as one of my all time heroes. :):)

I don't know how cycling can become a strong sport again after everything that has happened over the past two decades. If it is in cycling, then it is everywhere else. Here's a funny idea on doping (goes towards the Olympics but can go to cycling or any other sport) to even the stakes from one of my favourite comedians. :)

WU_zD0BiJwA

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

Lol' date=' just look at the conditions they had to ride the Tour in 50/60/70 years ago. Can't see any of today's riders do that tbh ;)[/quote']

Obviously many would, but it is true that it has become easier in two respects in particular: it is shorter and teams are better equipped to help the riders. however, in the first few decades it was not extraordinary that half of the pack abandoned the race. So, I guess same would be true today. Funny thing is that doping wasn't always so good. Back in the early days, the riders drank wine and smoked cigarettes to gain advantage. Needless to say, they would have been better of without.

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

I don't have time to translate, but if anybody reads French, this is a nice little article. Or more a short interview of certain Bassons who at his time not only refused to dope but also campaigned actively against doping.

http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur-route/Actualites/Bassons-armstrong-une-victime/320632

As he explains, that was a bad history for him, because apparently as everybody else doped, they also hated him to the extent that whole peloton, his own team included, rode against him. You can't survive in cycling if that happens. I don't recall this from the time, I followed not so keenly back then anyway, but it should have been a huge blow to the reputation of cycling when the cyclists unite against the one who refuses to dope. I mean, come on, can you be more explicit.

What I wonder is why he is so apologetic about Armstrong, when clearly his experience is that Armstrong was at the heart of doping that time. (well, that was a short version of the interview)

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

I don't have time to translate' date=' but if anybody reads French, this is a nice little article. Or more a short interview of certain Bassons who at his time not only refused to dope but also campaigned actively against doping.

[url']http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur-route/Actualites/Bassons-armstrong-une-victime/320632[/url]

As he explains, that was a bad history for him, because apparently as everybody else doped, they also hated him to the extent that whole peloton, his own team included, rode against him. You can't survive in cycling if that happens. I don't recall this from the time, I followed not so keenly back then anyway, but it should have been a huge blow to the reputation of cycling when the cyclists unite against the one who refuses to dope. I mean, come on, can you be more explicit.

What I wonder is why he is so apologetic about Armstrong, when clearly his experience is that Armstrong was at the heart of doping that time. (well, that was a short version of the interview)

Well as expected sponsors have begun to pull out from sponsoring road cycling at elast for the moment. The problem with the Armstrong issue is that it also indicates wrong doing on the part of the UCI.

As reagards his attitude towards Armstrong maybe its Omerta.

American cyclist Levi Leipheimer has been fired by the Omega Pharma-Quick Step cycling team after confessing to doping as part of the investigation that brought down Lance Armstrong.

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

So.. Lance Armstrong was stripped of his seven Tour de France titles and was banned from cycling for life by the UCI..

Basically, UCI recognised that they don't know how to make anti doping controls..

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

So.. Lance Armstrong was stripped of his seven Tour de France titles and was banned from cycling for life by the UCI..

Basically' date=' UCI recognised that they don't know how to make anti doping controls..[/quote']

It's hard to create tests for drugs that don't exist. By the very nature of doping, the controls will always be one step behind the drugs across all sports. That's why they keep test samples for years after they're taken so they can apply modern tests to them.

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

So.. Lance Armstrong was stripped of his seven Tour de France titles and was banned from cycling for life by the UCI..

Basically' date=' UCI recognised that they don't know how to make anti doping controls..[/quote']

The UCI should be completely reorganised or just stop existing at all to be replaced by a new organisation. Everyone knew they were pretty much no use and this massive doping story just confirms it and strenghtens everyone's minds.

And Lance should act like a man and just admit, its not like he can do anything about it now and everyone already knows he did it. He might lose some credibility but same thing will happen if he doesn't speak.

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

And now in English or Dutch? :D:P

Je ne parlais pas francais.

...but you do speak it now? Then just read it again.:D

Yeah, the point is that for the seven seasons that Armstrong is stripped the title, there will be no champion whatsoever. Nobody won it. Seen that pretty much everybody who challenged for the title has been caught for doping, I think that is the right decision.

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

...but you do speak it now? Then just read it again.:D

Yeah' date=' the point is that for the seven seasons that Armstrong is stripped the title, there will be no champion whatsoever. Nobody won it. Seen that pretty much everybody who challenged for the title has been caught for doping, I think that is the right decision.[/quote']

There's a difference between knowing some lines and really being able to speak properly :P

Ah yes believe I already read that somewhere. It is the best thing to do yes considering all the other scandals. This way you're absolutely sure no one with a doping history gets the title :o

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

One thing that these recent events has brought to my mind at least is that Armstrong really owes an apology to the likes of Frankie Andreu, Greg LeMond and Christophe Bassons (who now, ironically, is banned for a year because of missing a doping control - this is a bit ridiculous affair, since he had abandoned the race and was only called to the control when he had already returned to home and unable to get there in time). Armstrong always lead an operation of slandering them´amongst the cyclists when they tried to fight doping.

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

One thing that these recent events has brought to my mind at least is that Armstrong really owes an apology to the likes of Frankie Andreu' date=' Greg LeMond and Christophe Bassons (who now, ironically, is banned for a year because of missing a doping control - this is a bit ridiculous affair, since he had abandoned the race and was only called to the control when he had already returned to home and unable to get there in time). Armstrong always lead an operation of slandering them´amongst the cyclists when they tried to fight doping.[/quote']

If you ask me Armstrong owes an apology to all of cycling and all of the people he's ever been involved with through his foundation, basically he owes an apology to all of the world :o

No' date=' I meant because you used past tense.[/quote']

So that's how good my French is, didn't even know I was using past tense ;)

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

If you ask me Armstrong owes an apology to all of cycling and all of the people he's ever been involved with through his foundation' date=' basically he owes an apology to all of the world :o[/quote']

But to some more than to others. I mean, he has spent a lot of energy to destroy these people just because they refused to lie for him or continue to accept doping in cycling. At some point he must look back at it and think, "wow, I've been kind of a dick, big time... maybe it is time to ask for redemption". I hope he does, at least.

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Re: The Official Cycling Thread

533608_10200228552987043_1003611241_n.jpg

First ride of the year today :D

Physically it was terrible considering the cold and it being the first ride in months, but mentally it felt great to get on the road again. Think I took just 45 minutes today but I can't wait until the weather gets a little better and I can start to build up the miles again :D

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