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Top Talents List - All Price/Ability Ranges


Seftinho
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Re: Top Talents List - All Price/Ability Ranges

Although he is plus 93' date=' i think Aguero should be on the list just because he is a young talent although he is turning into a superstar name.:confused:[/quote']

He was on there, but I received criticism for it, so took him off. Seems I can't win either way...

Is Nordin Amrabat an 87 or an 86? Becuase in my steups he is an 86 however on here he is listed as an 87....

Also on that note his he worth keeping or will he not rise that much in the future?..

Thanks in advance' date=' Dan[/quote']

Yes he is 86, apologies for that. For some reason I was under the impression he rose. Was getting him mixed up with Jonathan Pitroipa.

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Re: Top Talents List - All Price/Ability Ranges

Just a quick note in case people try looking for him, the Coventry goalkeeper is not called Danny Holland, it's actually Danny Ireland (maybe you took a wrong turn near France hey? lol)

Personally, as a Coventry fan i would say not to go for him. He's the 3rd choice keeper behind Westwood and Marshall this season and after they release Marshall at the end of this season Dimi Konstantopoulos should come back to be the 2nd choice.

I think for him to stand any chance of a notable rise before at least the end of next season he would have to go out on loan to League1 or a top League2 side.

May rise 1 or 2 maybe, but i'm not overly confident it will happen. If you do decide you want to give him a try though please remember the surname is Ireland :)

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Re: Top Talents List - All Price/Ability Ranges

Just a quick note in case people try looking for him' date=' the Coventry goalkeeper is not called Danny Holland, it's actually Danny Ireland (maybe you took a wrong turn near France hey? lol)

Personally, as a Coventry fan i would say not to go for him. He's the 3rd choice keeper behind Westwood and Marshall this season and after they release Marshall at the end of this season Dimi Konstantopoulos should come back to be the 2nd choice.

I think for him to stand any chance of a notable rise before at least the end of next season he would have to go out on loan to League1 or a top League2 side.

May rise 1 or 2 maybe, but i'm not overly confident it will happen. If you do decide you want to give him a try though please remember the surname is Ireland :)[/quote']

Haha sorry for that error, mind's playing tricks on me. :o Must be old age or something..

Cheers for the note, will edit his name now. Will update ratings some time if I have time as well.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Re: Top Talents List - All Price/Ability Ranges

Why has this' date=' and all the other pinned topics for that matter, been unpinned?[/quote']

This thread needs to be pinned again. It acts as the nice little get together of all the talents found on this part of the forum!

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  • 3 weeks later...

Re: Top Talents List - All Price/Ability Ranges

Seft ~

Should I be thinking that this comprehensive list is:

(1)
always "fresh" and continually updated

OR

(2)
are there certain times of the year that you update this list and it's more "fresh"

Just trying to figure out how to use all the good info you provided here...

Thanks in advance...

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Re: Top Talents List - All Price/Ability Ranges

Seft ~

Should I be thinking that this comprehensive list is:

(1)
always "fresh" and continually updated

OR

(2)
are there certain times of the year that you update this list and it's more "fresh"

Just trying to figure out how to use all the good info you provided here...

Thanks in advance...

It was being updated after every rating section was completed, but seeing as it has now been unpinned, I don't really see the need to be wasting my time updating it when it's probably not going to be seen again.

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Re: Top Talents List - All Price/Ability Ranges

Unfortunate that they unpinned this, as it seems to have been a great resource for everyone on here...

Can the Mods please revisit this thread... (or whoever it is that's in charge of making a thread Sticky)

It looks like all the threads that were pinned in this section have come undone at the beginning of last month... At the time I think many of us just assumed the unpinning was due to a bug.

I would suggest to those that are in charge of things like this that it certainly doesn't make sense to sticky player talent threads about individual players, but surely a universal compilation list (and discussion) that was continually refreshed should be pinned within this section.

Big Note: Mods, here are a few points to consider:

(1)
In the entire Forum there are only 6 total threads that have been viewed more than this one.

  • 3 of those are in the Soccermanager.com Game Worlds section

  • The other 3 are:

A.
"Help With Deal(s) Thread"

B.
"Spanish Ratings"

C.
"Biggest Upcoming Risers Re-Visited"

(2)
This thread was viewed 40,000 more times than the #2 thread in this section (that's a magnitude of 3X the next closest thread, in what is one the most viewed sections on the Forum !!!)

(3)
It's not like other player compilations aren't Pinned. If you look over to the Player Assistance section, you will see that both the "Top U21 Players" thread and the "Player's Ratings" thread are both sticky.

(4)
In fact you can argue that this is a guide just like WillC's "Just Another Money Making Guide" thread or Speegs' "A Guide for Newcomers" thread. The shear fact that this thread has 300 posts, but has generated +60,000 views would suggest that users look at this as more of a guide. (That's a ratio of 200 views for every single post on this thread. I guarantee that 200:1 view-to-post ratio far eclipses any thread on here with more than 5,000 views.)

Aside: No I'm not on Seftinho's payroll.... I just don't want to see this excellent thread die or become stale. It's too good a resource for me personally, and apparently +60,000 views of this thread agree that it's a good resource for them too .

Feedback from the Mods (or whoever it is that's in charge of making a thread Sticky) would be appreciated... Thanks.

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Re: Top Talents List - All Price/Ability Ranges

When I get time. If I get time.

Replies like this are the reason, IMO. Seftinho has showed us and told us that he wouldn't be as active, and now appears to be playing the victim because of the unpinning. Even if it was pinned, I don't think he wants to keep updating it anyway. That's what I'm reading off him, anyway.

Two of the three sections hadn't been updated for about two months before being unpinned. It was warranted.

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Re: Top Talents List - All Price/Ability Ranges

Thanks for the feedback.

I am not sure you are considering the perspective of the majority of the users that use this guide.

The nature of this particular thread/guide is such that it doesn't require continual updates... It wouldn't be as useful if it did. Players don't work their way on or off any top talent list every week or even every month, so as such, it doesn't require daily or even weekly updates. This is in stark contrast to most of the other threads within the Player Talent Scout section.

Another thread that is similar to this one, is the "Player's Ratings" thread in the Player Assistance section. That particular thread is pinned and has 4,000 views. The core of it's information was updated on April 14th.

The fact is, that most users don't use this thread the way they would a typical one in this section. Mods need to consider how we use this. We use it as more of a guide (and guides don't have to be updated daily or weekly or even monthly). The +60,000 views and the 200:1 view-to-post ratio that I mentioned above confirms this is how the thread is used..

Just read down through those 4 bullet points that I listed above. Pretty powerful data about this particular thread in context of the overall Forum. And I for one think in determining whether or not this thread should be pinned, that the information in those four bullet points FAR outweighs the regularity in which this thread is updated.

Now hopefully the Mods can re-consider and rightly pin this thread again, as it is a very useful source and the Forum would lose out if it was buried and difficult to find. And.... hopefully this thread will be updated soon now that the European (and soon to be Argentinian,Brazilian & Eastern European) ratings changes are over...

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Re: Top Talents List - All Price/Ability Ranges

Replies like this are the reason' date=' IMO. Seftinho has showed us and told us that he wouldn't be as active, and now appears to be playing the victim because of the unpinning. Even if it was pinned, I don't think he wants to keep updating it anyway. That's what I'm reading off him, anyway.

Two of the three sections hadn't been updated for about two months before being unpinned. It was warranted.[/quote']

That was before my exams. With my exams close to finished, and plenty of spare time I now have, I have plenty of time to update it. I was only going to be inactive for a month or so (although it turns out I had a lot more spare time, so after one busy week I had plenty of time for SM), and when I made that comment you quote, I was just meaning the next month or so. I certainly didn't expect this to be unpinned so quickly.

As for two months - most of that time there was no ratings. The only things to be added were a few talents, and I planned on doing an overhaul, once again, when my exams were done. This was unpinned before Italy and Spain in any case, so only really Portugal hadn't been updated at the time.

Edit: If it is repinned, then I will work on a complete overhaul, starting completely from scratch, with the same format though.

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Re: Top Talents List - All Price/Ability Ranges

Thanks for the feedback.

I am not sure you are considering the perspective of the majority of the users that use this guide.

The nature of this particular thread/guide is such that it doesn't require continual updates... It wouldn't be as useful if it did. Players don't work their way on or off any top talent list every week or even every month' date=' so as such, it doesn't require daily or even weekly updates. This is in stark contrast to most of the other threads within the Player Talent Scout section.

[/quote']

I will quote as I read. Sure, it doesn't need to. I'd like to find someone making a case for a 20 year old starter for the #1 team in Brazil who is also captain for the U20's doesn't deserve to be on here. He was suggested for the thread over a month ago and nothing has been done. I'd say that's mismanagement.

Another thread that is similar to this one' date=' is the "Player's Ratings" thread in the Player Assistance section. That particular thread is pinned and has 4,000 views. The core of it's information was updated on April 14th.[/quote']

I am not aware of the thread in question. That may or may not change if/when the Player Assistance sub-forum is placed under our rule here in PD, like we have been lobbying for. We shall review this if and when this change is made.

The fact is' date=' that most users don't use this thread the way they would a typical one in this section. Mods need to consider how we use this. We use it as more of a guide (and guides don't have to be updated daily or weekly or even monthly). The +60,000 views and the 200:1 view-to-post ratio that I mentioned above confirms this is how the thread is used..[/quote']

I just don't think that such a thread deserves to be pinned in this particular sub-forum if it won't be updated. However, a few of us are planning some changes for the Player Discussion area, I'm pretty sure we will be able to find a place to pin it once we remodel our space. I'll need to discuss it with the member who unpinned it though, as well as the rest of the Player Discussion mod team.

Just read down through those 4 bullet points that I listed above. Pretty powerful data about this particular thread in context of the overall Forum. And I for one think in determining whether or not this thread should be pinned' date=' that the information in those four bullet points FAR outweighs the regularity in which this thread is updated.
(1) In the entire Forum there are only 6 total threads that have been viewed more than this one.

3 of those are in the Soccermanager.com Game Worlds section

The other 3 are:

A. "Help With Deal(s) Thread"

B. "Spanish Ratings"

C. "Biggest Upcoming Risers Re-Visited"

Only one of those is pinned, and it's the Help With Deal(s) Thread, pinned in the Help section to avoid the many duplicates we would be getting. I fail to see the argument here for pinning this one.

(2) This thread was viewed 40' date='000 more times than the #2 thread in this section (that's a magnitude of 3X the next closest thread, in what is one the most viewed sections on the Forum !!!)[/quote']

Stats need to be taken into context. Second or third most viewed on this board is dexter's South American post, and that's pretty much a fossilized history of how scouting used to be. Should be in the SM Forum museum, as far as I'm concerned. Legendary thread, but not pin-worthy at this point and time.

(3) It's not like other player compilations aren't Pinned. If you look over to the Player Assistance section' date=' you will see that both the "Top U21 Players" thread and the "Player's Ratings" thread are both sticky.[/quote']

Again, that is a completely different section, not being run by us at the moment. I'm afraid I can't comment on the way that's being run at the moment.

(4) In fact you can argue that this is a guide just like WillC's "Just Another Money Making Guide" thread or Speegs' "A Guide for Newcomers" thread. The shear fact that this thread has 300 posts' date=' but has generated +60,000 views would suggest that users look at this as more of a guide. (That's a ratio of 200 views for every single post on this thread. I guarantee that 200:1 view-to-post ratio far eclipses any thread on here with more than 5,000 views.)[/quote']

This is a very good argument, but once again, look at it from our point of view. Seftinho has apparently let this die, or he would've let us know. I think he actually did let us know somewhere (might've been on the scout's board?) that he'd be gone for a while and was quitting scouting. That's the impression I got. And us mods sure weren't going to keep this thread alive.

Now hopefully the Mods can re-consider and rightly pin this thread again' date=' as it is a very useful source and the Forum would lose out if it was buried and difficult to find. And.... hopefully this thread will be updated soon now that the European (and soon to be Argentinian,Brazilian & Eastern European) ratings changes are over...[/quote']

Good post with decent arguments. I'll talk about it with the other powers that be. Now, on to Seftinho, who will hopefully shed some light on my instant-commentary.

That was before my exams. With my exams close to finished' date=' and plenty of spare time I now have, I have plenty of time to update it. I was only going to be inactive for a month or so (although it turns out I had a lot more spare time, so after one busy week I had plenty of time for SM), and when I made that comment you quote, I was just meaning the next month or so. I certainly didn't expect this to be unpinned so quickly.[/quote']

I'll have a quick talk with the un-pinner in question to see what he thinks about the situation. I think if you are ready to keep it updated, then there shouldn't be a problem finding a place for it. I'm ready to help you out with it, actually, if you give me permission of editing your three posts on the first page.

As for two months - most of that time there was no ratings. The only things to be added were a few talents' date=' and I planned on doing an overhaul, once again, when my exams were done. This was unpinned before Italy and Spain in any case, so only really Portugal hadn't been updated at the time.[/quote']

This isn't a ratings thread. This is a talent thread, and new talent is consistently being uncovered. If you were still committed to it, there wouldn't've been the "If I have time" comment, and Sandro, Toloi, Bernardo etc would be up there on the list. If you want it to have a case for re-pinning, I'd strongly recommend you refer to it as talent, not ratings ;)

Edit: If it is repinned' date=' then I will work on a complete overhaul, starting ;)completely from scratch, with the same format though.[/quote']

Glad to hear that. I'll have a talk with a few people about it. If we do decide to re-pin, I'm available to give you a hand with it.

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Re: Top Talents List - All Price/Ability Ranges

I will quote as I read. Sure' date=' it doesn't [i']need[/i] to. I'd like to find someone making a case for a 20 year old starter for the #1 team in Brazil who is also captain for the U20's doesn't deserve to be on here. He was suggested for the thread over a month ago and nothing has been done. I'd say that's mismanagement.

I think the term "mismanagement" is a bit harsh. That said, maybe the player in question deserves to be here. But guess what... if said player was such a "Top Talent" within his rating bracket, I'm sure that he would have been mentioned months and months ago. And I think you have to agree, that "Top-Talent" and players rated lower than 80 (e.g. 78-rated 20 yr old Sandro who starts for Inter, who was first mentioned on this Forum only three months ago) doesn't need to be added IMMEDIATELY to this thread. :) In fact, maybe in a perfect world where all the scouts instantly communicate with one another...then "Yes"...he should be added.... But in a world where most of the scouts (let alone forumers) have university tests, other personal issues, etc. to worry about, because of the nature of this particular thread/guide it's not a big deal if players like that are added last month or this month, just as long as they are added to this "Top Talent" compilation BEFORE there upcoming ratings change.

I am not aware of the thread in question. That may or may not change if/when the Player Assistance sub-forum is placed under our rule here in PD' date=' like we have been lobbying for. We shall review this if and when this change is made.[/quote']

Maybe it will...and maybe it won't. The point being that things should be put in perspective of the OVERALL Forum. You cannot refute the data or the example that I laid out for you. The stats that this particular thread generates are POWERFUL. Powerful. Surely you can see this.

I just don't think that such a thread deserves to be pinned in this particular sub-forum if it won't be updated.

You are completely missing the point about how the +60' date='000 views of this thread actually use this thread/guide. You are only seeing this from your point of view. It doesn't have to be updated continually. In fact, if it was updated continually this thread/guide would actually be less useful.

However, a few of us are planning some changes for the Player Discussion area, I'm pretty sure we will be able to find a place to pin it once we remodel our space. I'll need to discuss it with the member who unpinned it though, as well as the rest of the Player Discussion mod team.

Personally I think that this thread/guide should be here. It makes the most logical sense.

That said, maybe (just maybe) maintaining 3 sections of this "Top Talents" list is a bit aggressive. I'm not saying it's not doable... I'm just saying it's a tad bit aggressive to effectively maintain. The first two sections (1) "The expensive players rated 87+..." and (2) "The mid-valued players..." contain +350 players! That's a lot to maintain, even if it needs to be updated every other month or so.

The 3rd section of this thread is titled "The cheap players, rated 82 or lower...". I think we can all agree that this 3rd section of this thread will not only have the most players in it, but also need to be updated the most frequently.

Personally, I don't see a need for a 3rd section. I expect to be informed & educated on most of this "cheap" "top talent" in either (1) the individual player profile threads or (2) in the individual league threads (e.g. Guide to the 2009 Brazilian season , Official Russian Premier League '09 Thread , Argentinian Analysis ). Plus I think that "The Cheap Players..." section is just WAAAAY to much a pain in the asss to maintain.

Logic alone would tell you that if the first two sections contain +350 players, that a "Cheap players" section would have 350 players in it, easy. Not to mention would have to be updated weekly (if not daily). Maybe life is easier if this section is just drpped completely. Actually, if you dropped it, it would add more value to the individual league and player threads... I think I'm on to something here...

Aside: I touched on this above, but I think if this thread/guide is going to be really viable as it has been to date, that players need to be updated/added to this before their respective league's rating change. After all...that's why we commoners tune in...

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Re: Top Talents List - All Price/Ability Ranges

I'll have a quick talk with the un-pinner in question to see what he thinks about the situation. I think if you are ready to keep it updated' date=' then there shouldn't be a problem finding a place for it. I'm ready to help you out with it, actually, if you give me permission of editing your three posts on the first page.[/quote']

Sure thing. Like I said, I'm planning on a complete overhaul anyway.

This isn't a ratings thread. This is a talent thread' date=' and new talent is consistently being uncovered. If you were still committed to it, there wouldn't've been the "If I have time" comment, and Sandro, Toloi, Bernardo etc would be up there on the list. If you want it to have a case for re-pinning, I'd strongly recommend you refer to it as talent, not ratings ;)[/quote']

Of course, I know that. But I was referring that at the time of being unpinned, the only players who's ratings and positions were wrong were those in the Portuguese league. There were a large amount of talents appearing at the time, and I thought I'd leave it until after my exams before adding them all.

And as for being committed, when it's a choice between this and exams, exams will always come first. I was planning on coming back to this after my exams, and I thought it could last a few months without an update. As it is, after Tuesday I'll have three 45min exams spread over two weeks, so plenty of spare time. And after that, I'll have 10 weeks off.

That said' date=' maybe (just maybe) maintaining 3 sections of this "Top Talents" list is a bit aggressive. I'm not saying it's not doable... I'm just saying it's a tad bit aggressive to effectively maintain. The first two sections (1) "The expensive players rated 87+..." and (2) "The mid-valued players..." contain +350 players! That's a lot to maintain, even if it needs to be updated every other month or so.[/quote']

Before-hand, it was largely a case of adding and not taking away. I realise there were too many players to be considered "top" talents, thus taking away the meaning of "top". If/when I re-do it, there will be a lot of cutting down so only the biggest prospects are on there.

The 3rd section of this thread is titled "The cheap players' date=' rated 82 or lower...". I think we can all agree that this 3rd section of this thread will not only have the most players in it, but also need to be updated the most frequently.

Personally, I don't see a need for a 3rd section. I expect to be informed & educated on most of this "cheap" "top talent" in either (1) the individual player profile threads or (2) in the individual league threads (e.g. Guide to the 2009 Brazilian season , Official Russian Premier League '09 Thread , Argentinian Analysis ). Plus I think that "The Cheap Players..." section is just WAAAAY to much a pain in the asss to maintain.

It will definitely need to be updated more frequently.

I personally think this is perhaps the more important section. Newer managers to the game like to buy some good prospects, and if they're all together in one place, rather than spread over three different threads, it would be a lot easier for them. Especially the lazy types who go into a Rating Predictions thread and ask for players in a certain range, instead of taking a couple of minutes to read the first post.

With the new Scouts board, updating this season will be a lot easier. Players in the PTS section would only be added if it's clear they have big potential (IE Santon), whereas on the Scouts board, only genuine talents are posted. With a lot of spare time on my hands, I should also be able to update this thread whenever I see a new talent from Ben, Mark, Tom, Abdel, etc.

Logic alone would tell you that if the first two sections contain +350 players' date=' that a "Cheap players" section would have 350 players in it, easy. Not to mention would have to be updated weekly (if not daily). Maybe life is easier if this section is just drpped completely. Actually, if you dropped it, it would add more value to the individual league and player threads... I think I'm on to something here...[/quote']

Maybe, but like I said I will look to cut down (big-time) on the players in the first two sections, and only allow for proper, genuine talents.

And like I said earlier, I would look to update it whenever I see a genuine new talent mentioned on the board or elsewhere that is on the game.

And would it really add more value to the individual league and player threads? The PTS scouts are new, unheard of players. If they've already on this thread, chances are they're already known and wouldn't need a thread. Not to mention that those threads are for updating progress and rating predictions on that single player, whereas this is just a list of good prospects. In a way, they could work together; someone might see a talent here, then look for their thread to find some more detail.

As for the league threads, they are unique. Mark, Tom and Ben are always unearthing new talents not on the DB, or unheard of. I certainly won't have heard of most (if not all) of the talents they find, and I doubt very few others will have either. Not to mention that they continuously watch them play and update us on their progress. The only link between the threads really is that the big talents from there would end up on here.

I don't see how this would add more value to the individual player scouts and league threads tbh.

Aside: I touched on this above' date=' but I think if this thread/guide is going to be really viable as it has been to date, that players need to be updated/added to this before their respective league's rating change. After all...that's why we commoners tune in...[/quote']

Of course the talents will be added more the league changes. As I said before, new talents were and will be added the minute of hear of them (and find some time to add them). I only update the ratings after each league is reviewed. In other words, I don't update the rating changes on this guide mid-way through the league being reviewed, but after everyone in that league has been reviewed. Not to mention new talents (like Muniesa or Alcantara) who are added during the changes can be added at that time too.

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