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Through all the swap tool furore on the forum over the last week or so, it appeared one of the things SM are looking for is loyalty from managers. The phenomenon of 'club-hopping' and also the scenario where members join a club for a few games at the start of the set-up and then leave having spent all the money once results have not gone their way ruins the experience for many. So many set-ups remain less than half-full. Perhaps it would be prudent if some of us could put our heads together and think of ideas/suggestions which will reward loyalty to a club and also to a set-up :) .

An idea which I posted on that thread, but was perhaps lost amongst some of the disappointment many were experiencing at the time, was to incorporate a loyalty points score within the set-up history. You currently have total points and average points. Could we have a loyalty points for all members within the set-up. Could this be incorporated into the formula which SM use to determine the best manager for a job when one becomes available. This could be something as simple as adding for example 0.5 point per game in charge. Could be greater or smaller depending how important loyalty is to be in the job offer scenario. So in theory you will now have 3 figures:

e.g I'm manager of X. I've been in charge for 50 games. My set-up history shows

Manager..........Average Pts..........Total Pts..........Loyalty points

Me...................2.50.....................125. ..................25

Loyalty points will be zero'd whenever I change clubs (although perhaps if you have amassed a huge number of points, perhaps you will keep some of your loyalty points). The exact way you use the figures I cannot say as I'm uncertain of the current stipulations/formula involved in job offers. But by incorporating the loyalty points somewhere in the formula, loyalty will become more important and long-standing managers in the set-up who have been loyal to their club will be conferred an advantage when it comes to offering jobs. As I've said, this could be as small or as great as you want it.

Such an idea may encourage members to stay-on within a set-up or with a particular team when things have suddenly gone awry. I've seen managers who have performed quite well one season suddenly leave their teams when they suffer 3 losses at the start of the next season. Having a good loyalty score may encourage them to stay within the set-up longer term :) . A loyalty score could also help set-up owners in deciding which sorts of managers they would like to invite to their set-ups.

Anybody have other ideas to reward loyalty and keep set-ups from emptying?

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Re: Rewarding Loyalty

Great idea SmartDoc .

Maybe it could Also be like This.

Name............................................Average Points .........Total Points ...................... Loyalty

Bob McChickenburger :D ............................... 2.50 ..................678...........Very Loyal

Then depending on how long you have been at the club depends on your status . And say , you get up a status every four months or so.. .

The statuses could be .

New Manager

Manager

Liked by Fans

Loyal

Very Loyel

Extremely Loyal

The Club God .

Something like that .

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Guest ExiledScotInTheUSA

Re: Rewarding Loyalty

What about the manager being rewarded by his chairman in cash, which we all love. It could be implemented on a scale depending on his success and his loyalty, and also how he manages the financial side of things. It's all too easy to join a club and spend the bank roll then leave. Club hoppers should face some kind of punishment, like not being allowed to take on a big club until they have amassed a certain amount of loyalty points, and if they leave a club with a certain time span, then they should only be allowed to take on a lesser club than before.

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Re: Rewarding Loyalty

Something has to be done for the good of the game as too many setups seem to have people getting a club spending all that sides money then leaving after 2-3 games if they've lost a game or 2. Then nobody wants those sides because of the rubbish they've been left with, personally i cant see why a managers rating cant be decreased by say 10 for everytime they quit a side, maybe need a 50+ rating to manage a prem side, 45+ champ etc.....just a suggestion to stop the hoppers :mad:

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Re: Rewarding Loyalty

To mirror real life, I think that managers can have a sort of 'pull' quality on players. In buying players currently, there is only consideration on money offered (quite realistic, eh?). Maybe the manager could affect how much the player wants to go to that club. Imagine Ferguson being at Man City, then all the Berbatovs flocking to City because of him. Something like that. The more reputable you are, the more 'pull' you have, so to speak. But of course, not by too much.

Having a reputable manager could probably increase morale of the players as well. Okay, I know morale is useless, but SM could probably tweak it to affect match performance as well! :)

Imagine again, Ferguson and his hair-dryer treatments, all the players would probably be spurred on to play even better!

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Re: Rewarding Loyalty

Through all the swap tool furore on the forum over the last week or so' date=' it appeared one of the things SM are looking for is loyalty from managers. The phenomenon of 'club-hopping' and also the scenario where members join a club for a few games at the start of the set-up and then leave having spent all the money once results have not gone their way ruins the experience for many. So many set-ups remain less than half-full. Perhaps it would be prudent if some of us could put our heads together and think of ideas/suggestions which will reward loyalty to a club and also to a set-up :) .

An idea which I posted on that thread, but was perhaps lost amongst some of the disappointment many were experiencing at the time, was to incorporate a loyalty points score within the set-up history. You currently have total points and average points. Could we have a loyalty points for all members within the set-up. Could this be incorporated into the formula which SM use to determine the best manager for a job when one becomes available. This could be something as simple as adding for example 0.5 point per game in charge. Could be greater or smaller depending how important loyalty is to be in the job offer scenario. So in theory you will now have 3 figures:

e.g I'm manager of X. I've been in charge for 50 games. My set-up history shows

Manager..........Average Pts..........Total Pts..........Loyalty points

Me...................2.50.....................125. ..................25

Loyalty points will be zero'd whenever I change clubs (although perhaps if you have amassed a huge number of points, perhaps you will keep some of your loyalty points). The exact way you use the figures I cannot say as I'm uncertain of the current stipulations/formula involved in job offers. But by incorporating the loyalty points somewhere in the formula, loyalty will become more important and long-standing managers in the set-up who have been loyal to their club will be conferred an advantage when it comes to offering jobs. As I've said, this could be as small or as great as you want it.

Such an idea may encourage members to stay-on within a set-up or with a particular team when things have suddenly gone awry. I've seen managers who have performed quite well one season suddenly leave their teams when they suffer 3 losses at the start of the next season. Having a good loyalty score may encourage them to stay within the set-up longer term :) . A loyalty score could also help set-up owners in deciding which sorts of managers they would like to invite to their set-ups.

Anybody have other ideas to reward loyalty and keep set-ups from emptying?[/quote']

great idea there.

another scenario i always observe happens in crowded setups. Managers always take over the clubs to collapse the bids of others, and leave after that. Perhaps the loyalty point system could further prevent that from happening.

great idea though.

cheers

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Re: Rewarding Loyalty

I Like The Idea Below, In Theory, But Then It Would Require Players Rejecting Moving To Other Clubs, Which I'm Tottaly Against..

It Really Should Be Up To Managers Who They Decide to Buy Sell & Players Shouldn't Hava Say..

On Smarties Idea i Think If It Could Be Incorperated Into Whole Acos { Account Loyalty} Then I Think Thers Scope For This Idea or Something Along These Lines...

To mirror real life' date=' I think that managers can have a sort of 'pull' quality on players. In buying players currently, there is only consideration on money offered (quite realistic, eh?). Maybe the manager could affect how much the player wants to go to that club. Imagine Ferguson being at Man City, then all the Berbatovs flocking to City because of him. Something like that. The more reputable you are, the more 'pull' you have, so to speak. But of course, not by too much.

Having a reputable manager could probably increase morale of the players as well. Okay, I know morale is useless, but SM could probably tweak it to affect match performance as well! :)

Imagine again, Ferguson and his hair-dryer treatments, all the players would probably be spurred on to play even better![/quote']

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Re: Rewarding Loyalty

Hmmmmmmmm just saw this thread and it appears to be very similar to an issue that has just been posted about.

I don't wish to hijack this thread or get off topic and I certainly do not want to merge the 2 topics but perhaps some of you would like to have a read and comment on the other subject.suggestion as well, if so please visit

http://forum.soccermanager.com/s...209#post385209

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Re: Rewarding Loyalty

http://forum.soccermanager.com/showthread.php?p=385217#post385217

He Meant This Link Above I Think

;)

Hmmmmmmmm just saw this thread and it appears to be very similar to an issue that has just been posted about.

I don't wish to hijack this thread or get off topic and I certainly do not want to merge the 2 topics but perhaps some of you would like to have a read and comment on the other subject.suggestion as well' date=' if so please visit

[url']http://forum.soccermanager.com/s...209#post385209[/url]

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Re: Rewarding Loyalty

Great idea Doc, I have suggested something similar in the past. :)

I'd especially like to see loyalty rewarded with a reduction of the involvement of the chairman in transfer dealings.

Don't have time to go into all that but please see my post that SM Admin 3/Shels have highlighted.

Cheers,

Herby

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Guest joe black

Re: Rewarding Loyalty

Would the Loyalty points not conflict with SM "Job Offers" which we all know is a joke but its in place:confused:

What i mean is on one hand SM are giving you added privileges if ya like for loyalty and on the other they are enticing you to leave that club with "Job Offers" to manage another club

I think one scenario contradicts the other;):)

When the idea of a "Swap Tool" was mentioned the main excuse SM had to knock it back was it would make the "Job Offers" Scheme obsolete,would this implementation not do the same:confused:

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Re: Rewarding Loyalty

Would the Loyalty points not conflict with SM "Job Offers" which we all know is a joke but its in place:confused:

What i mean is on one hand SM are giving you added privileges if ya like for loyalty and on the other they are enticing you to leave that club with "Job Offers" to manage another club

I think one scenario contradicts the other;):)

When the idea of a "Swap Tool" was mentioned the main excuse SM had to knock it back was it would make the "Job Offers" Scheme obsolete' date='would this implementation not do the same:confused:[/quote']

Good point young Phil :D . Although you are right to some extents, the scenario played out differently in my eyes. The managers at the top clubs, will presumably not be moving clubs too much anyway (apart from the 'need to win every game and buy every good player' merchants). The rule would however, in theory reward the smaller club managers who have plugged away with their clubs for a long time and will then be conferred a bonus and be pushed up the ladder when the better jobs become available (you'll say the big jobs don't become available but I've seen more and more Milans and Man Us becoming available via the job offer scheme - even in a GC as shown by the success story of the Lyn manager in the blog). So in a roundabout way this will encourage loyalty from the smaller club managers and. Even if this fact is disputed, it certainly does encourage loyalty within a set-up which is just as important in my mind :)

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Guest joe black

Re: Rewarding Loyalty

Cant agree mate and here is why,the Job Offer creation is badly flawed so the managers are not being offered the better jobs in fact its quite the opposite,the managers of the big clubs are being offered clubs 2 divisions below them and with 18 players that they wont not accept in a million years and the Job Offers was not implemented to give better jobs to smaller club managers it was introduced to reward managers for doing well with there existing club irrespective of who they manage

Loyalty with in a setup and not to any individual club is a whole different ball game,i am looking at this from a Gold Setup point of few cos thats where i play and maybe other Setups have different trends

So until the job offers AI gets a refit as far as im concerned Loyalty points and Job offers are at opposite ends of the spectrum and contradict each other

I take your point about smaller clubs managers being rewarded for staying with there club but maybe there could be other inducements to get them to stay there cos offereing another club to them to manage and encourageing them to leave ther own clubs who they may have managed for 2 years defeats the object of Loyalty points;):)

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Re: Rewarding Loyalty

Fair points and I take them on board. I can definitely see where you're coming from when you suggest in some ways the job offers and loyalty contradict each other. I'm also on the other side of the spectrum to you in that I have few GC teams (mainly unfancied ones) and more teams in custom and standard set-ups, where the dynamics are indeed different.

I'd also agree that the job offers should still be seen as a work in progress and needs refining. Clearly some of the offers made are inapporpriate (for managers to take on seemingly lesser clubs). Again this is more so in GCs and works a little better in other forms of set-up from what I've seen :) .

Cetainly challenging times ahead for SM to amalgamate many of the new features introduced and ensure they work cohesively, as they should and in harmony with each other.

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Guest joe black

Re: Rewarding Loyalty

If the "Job Offers" was sorted and working properly then that would be one obstacle out of the way,and i think there should be rewards for managers who stay with a team for a decent length of time,weather it be monetary or something else i dont know but in general i agree with you that loyalty should be rewarded.........just cant think of how;):)

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Re: Rewarding Loyalty

I agree.. and those first couple of ideas posted seem to legit ways of rewarding/punishing managers who "fly by the night". I've been on SM for about 2 months now and I have two teams. The first month I joined a 4 div world champ team and I'm still with them and the next month i joined a 2 div world champ team and I'll stick by them as well. But I have seen many managers (especially since the installment of the setup msg overview) justing coming and going seemily just to get a glimpse of the squad and leave. Makes no sense to me why others would do that but it happens and something must be done to combat. I think that not only should loyalty points (or however you want to do it) based on your particular set-up but be a part of your SM profile so set-ups can be created exclusively for people who gut it out for the long run. I understand why some setups are +45 reputation points because you dont want newbs in the setup. It makes perfect sense but by the same token it makes perfect sense for there to be setups in which managers who are long term tacticians only to be involved.

But I must say this... I can't speak for GC's but I dont feel that a manager leaving a smaller club for a bigger (within the setup) should necessarily hurt his loyalty status. If it happens once a season I think thats OK because your intentions were to HELP and make better the team you were on.. but if your a manager who just hops to EVERY open managerial invitation (IE changing clubs 2-3 times a season) then your rep should take a hit.

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Re: Rewarding Loyalty

I agree.. and those first couple of ideas posted seem to legit ways of rewarding/punishing managers who "fly by the night". I've been on SM for about 2 months now and I have two teams. The first month I joined a 4 div world champ team and I'm still with them and the next month i joined a 2 div world champ team and I'll stick by them as well. But I have seen many managers (especially since the installment of the setup msg overview) justing coming and going seemily just to get a glimpse of the squad and leave. Makes no sense to me why others would do that but it happens and something must be done to combat. I think that not only should loyalty points (or however you want to do it) based on your particular set-up but be a part of your SM profile so set-ups can be created exclusively for people who gut it out for the long run. I understand why some setups are +45 reputation points because you dont want newbs in the setup. It makes perfect sense but by the same token it makes perfect sense for there to be setups in which managers who are long term tacticians only to be involved.

But I must say this... I can't speak for GC's but I dont feel that a manager leaving a smaller club for a bigger (within the setup) should necessarily hurt his loyalty status. If it happens once a season I think thats OK because your intentions were to HELP and make better the team you were on.. but if your a manager who just hops to EVERY open managerial invitation (IE changing clubs 2-3 times a season) then your rep should take a hit.

I agree totally, I still have the same teams from when I started, and I have seen recently, with the new club overview, quite a few managers joining the club and leaving the next day. This is over a few setups. Anyway his is a very good post, and good luck with your teams. :)

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Guest joe black

Re: Rewarding Loyalty

Good post by Priest and as i said i dont have a problem with rewarding loyalty,maybe SM could tweak the AI that if you are offered a job by the AI and take it then your Loyalty points are not effected because the game is offereing you a new job (the job offer AI needs sorted for this to happen) but if you leave a club because you fancy a change of secenery or your club has lost a few games in a row:rolleyes: then you would lose all/some of your loyalty points,dont know weather that would work or not;):)

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