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Re: UEFA Champions League Discussion thread What is your problem you seem to be constantly throwing your weight around looking for arguments. Its boring. How has ANYTHING Jack said been arrogant?

Re: UEFA Champions League Discussion thread +

Re: UEFA Champions League Discussion thread

In all honesty, as a fan of a team not in Europe, I think Carragher is better than Ufjalusi and Heitinga put together. He pulls the strings in defence and is the prime reason, bar Reina, that LFC have such a formidable defence this campaign, or the first month and a half of it anyway.

Skrtel, was incredibly poor when I first saw him in the second half of last season. Made silly mistakes, including that mis-kick against Havant and Waterlooville which gifted them a deserved equaliser. But this season he is vastly improved and is playing ahead of Hyypia and on merit. I saw him against Marseille about two weeks ago and was very solid, and looked like a starting player for Liverpool, in his quality.

Heitinga, has played just 91 minutes all season for Atletico in La Liga, and started twice in the Champions League. To be quite honest the main defenders at Altetico so far, have been Lopez, Ufjalusi, Seitaridis and Perea. Although he is a regular in the national side, and scored in Holland's win over FYR Macedonia on the 10th of September.

Can't say too much regarding Ufjalusi, but he has the second best stats of a Madrid defender, beaten only by Greek Seitaridis. Also he is in the Czech side regularly and an asset to his country.

To sum it up I'd lean more towards Carragher and Skrtel, because they've been together as a unit longer, albeit a short stint in general, and because their side is in a better position than A.Madrid in their league, with their contribution being a big help.

I think Aguero and Torres is a no-brainer. While both are superb for their clubs, Aguero has only scored 15 goals for Argentina, at U17, U20 , U23 and senior side. Problem Aguero faces is that the likes of Crespo, Messi and Tevez wil probably get in front of him which won't do hi any favours, whereas Torres and Villa have their names virtually engraved as the front two for Spain, and it shows with their club records.

So Liverpool win both areas tbh. I would love an Atletico win myself but I just can't see Liverpool's quality letting them past.

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Re: UEFA Champions League Discussion thread

I was basing myself on last season for Skrtel, as I don't have the time to watch Pool this season. However, if you guys are to base it on this season only, then Aguero outshines Torres by a few miles...

Also, about the Heitinga playing 91 mins only, he's been injured. He still was yesterday, and it was obvious. I think the big test will be facing up to Barcelona with a non-fit Heitinga and both Seitaridis and Pablo out. If Atleti can contain them, then yes, our defense is better. Liverpool havn't had any challenges this year. Pretty much full fitness if I'm not mistaken? We've lost 2 holding mids and 3 defenders. And still have only allowed one goal in 2 CL matches and 4 goals in 5 Liga matches. That's a pretty good record.

As for Ujfalusi, he reminds me a bit of Lugano, not in playing style, but with the fact that if he'd have any exposure whatsoever, he'd be rated much higher by all these armchair-analysts. As for playing style, I don't think it's out of question to say he's a poor man's Carragher.

And I don't care what you guys say, from what I've seen of Skrtel, he's no Heitinga, not even close. Heck, I can think of 4 CB's on Atletico I'd rather have out there than the Skrtel I've seen...

Funny no one's mentionned the midfield or keepers yet. Our backup is better than your backup :P (kidding, but true ;) )

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Re: UEFA Champions League Discussion thread

I have not missed a minute of LFC this season and so far we have been no were near our best but still winning most games.

LFC "have" had tests, we have played the EPL and European champions Man Utd and performed very well against them, we have also played away to Villa who are going to do very well in the EPL this season and also been to Marseille and won who look a very fast and decent side at home.

I have not been a big fan of Skirtel this season at all tbh, hes done ok and played well in the Marseille game but the amount of times Carra has bailed him out is unreal.

every match more or less Cara covers up Skirtels mistakes including 2 last night in a very easy match.

Torres VS Aguero .. Aguero is flying no doubt but Torres record speaks for itself and I doubt you will find any LFC fan wishing they had signed the other one instead but at the same time Athletico fans might be happy we took him and not Aguero (this season they are anyway).

I think both sides are pretty close and it should be an interesting game(s) I'm going for us to draw in madrid and win at anfield, although for the 1st time in this post that might be a little biased :D

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Re: UEFA Champions League Discussion thread

Just a few points:

I was basing myself on last season for Skrtel' date=' [b']as I don't have the time to watch Pool this season.[/b] However, if you guys are to base it on this season only, then Aguero outshines Torres by a few miles...

So you haven't watched Liverpool..... but you know exactly how well Torres is playing :confused:

Funny no one's mentionned the midfield or keepers yet.

I'm happy to bring Keepers into the equation.

Reina

2005-2006 Barclays Golden Glove

2006-2007 Barclays Golden Glove

2007-2008 Barclays Golden Glove

Need I say any more :rolleyes:

vs Leo Franco

Am I right saying Coupet (Lyon's hand-me-down) plays in the league and Leo Franco (who? I hear you shout) plays in the Champions League.

Please try and tell me how Leo is better than Reina... - Good luck :):D

Then Midfield. I'll be honest On the wings you beat us hands down. But in Center Midfield I'm thinking (No' date=' knowing) It's another win for Pool. There again, not many teams have the resources of Gerrard, Mashe, Alonso, Lucas and Plesis.

And as for Sinama-Pongolle... well he is second leading goal scorer in Spain.. so he's not as bad as you guys may think. I remember thinking that before, but he really took huge strides being the man at Recré.

So he can't score goals in England, then he goes to Spain and becomes the top scorer. I can remember a certain Diego Forlan being similar to that.... Believe me, that is not working in favor of the Spanish league :)

_____________________

End of what probably looks like a very bias Post. It's not that I hate Atletico, in fact I like the team..... It's just I've gotta stick up for my side :) - So please don't take anything from my last few posts to heart.

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Re: UEFA Champions League Discussion thread

And as for Sinama-Pongolle... well he is second leading goal scorer in Spain.. so he's not as bad as you guys may think. I remember thinking that before' date=' but he really took huge strides being the man at Recré.[/quote']

Pongolle looked excellent for us when he played, looked skillfull and always got into goal scoring chances, although he missed quite a few he was only young.

tbh he was hardly ever given a chance by Houiller and then Rafa decided not to keep him.

Many people forget the role he played in the CL for us.

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Re: UEFA Champions League Discussion thread

Wow, so much rivalry before the match has even begun! I Love it! :D

To be fair, I couldn't bother about who wins / who loses. I just want Atletico Madrid to progress to the knockout stages of the competition.

We have a brilliant squad, and like Liverpool, I think we are also among the favourites to qualify.

Talking about who is better than who - I think the partnership between Ujfalusi a Heitinga is better than Carra and Skrtel. And not because I support Madrid, but for all the reasons mentioned above / below. Carra has to bail Skrtel out numerously. I think Carra is probably the only defend whom we can rate out of the two.

Aguero, I feel is a superstar. Someone who is only 20, he is immense.

And if you do compare him and Torres together, then I don't think there would be much difference. Both world class strikers.

About the fixture. Obviously I want Atletico Madrid to win, at the Calderon especially. A draw would do at Anfield :D

The Atletico squad is good, but injuries to Heitinga will cost us I feel. Barcelona next and 'Pool in two weeks time.

Should be interesting ;)

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Re: UEFA Champions League Discussion thread

Wow' date=' so much rivalry before the match has even begun! I Love it! :D

To be fair, I couldn't bother about who wins / who loses. I just want Atletico Madrid to progress to the knockout stages of the competition.

We have a brilliant squad, and like Liverpool, I think we are also among the favourites to qualify.

Talking about who is better than who - I think the partnership between Ujfalusi a Heitinga is better than Carra and Skrtel. And not because I support Madrid, but for all the reasons mentioned above / below. Carra has to bail Skrtel out numerously. I think Carra is probably the only defend whom we can rate out of the two.

Aguero, I feel is a superstar. Someone who is only 20, he is immense.

And if you do compare him and Torres together, then I don't think there would be much difference. Both world class strikers.

About the fixture. Obviously I want Atletico Madrid to win, at the Calderon especially. A draw would do at Anfield :D

The Atletico squad is good, but injuries to Heitinga will cost us I feel. Barcelona next and 'Pool in two weeks time.

Should be interesting ;)[/quote']

I swear to god, I didn't create a new account ;)

Nice to see another Atleti on here!

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Re: UEFA Champions League Discussion thread

I swear to god' date=' I didn't create a new account ;)

Nice to see another Atleti on here![/quote']

They are immense mate :D

Ever since I heard of 'La Liga' -It wasn't Barca or Real Madrid which came to mind..... But the red and whites who were the first Spanish team I saw play.

And I've been a fan ever since :P

Also been worried about the latest interest from City for Aguero, but just read the Madrid 'insist' that he is happy in Spain :D

Phew!

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Re: UEFA Champions League Discussion thread

Ben I have to admit, I thought you were a better forumer, nay person, then that. I have not been dissing every Pool player, I have tried to keep it civilised, but you are taking it way too far. Next to every single Atletico player you always have a sarcastic comment to make.

It wasn't a luck shot that Atleti are in the Champions League ahead of teams like Valencia and Sevilla. You have to stop talking about Pool cause it's got some weird impact on you. Loss of rationality.

I'd like to know how many Atletico matches you've watched this and last season. And not just highlites. Highlites make the keepers and defenders look bad, every time. Exept Franco, strangely enough. He dominates the highlites.

I've watched two Pool matches this year. PSV and Everton. I've gotta say, you'd need to pay me to take on Skrtel. Skrtel seems to be the equivalent of Pablo.

I know I'm jumping around but do you really think you can compare a 19 year old Pongolle who has his manager take out all his morale and a 21 year old Forlan who has his manager take out all his morale to high riding 23 and 27 year olds who had their confidence boosted with lower sides? Once again, seems a bit irrational.

I'm one of Lucas' biggest fans, in fact I was the first to mention the young Gremio prodigy :D , but I don't think he'd get into the top 4 CM's at Atleti. Or Plessis for that matter. Rafa did well to scrap the rotation system, as he really doesn't have that depth anymore. He has the three who can play CL or EPL, Lucas who can sub in to an EPL, and thats it other than Cups.

Not many teams have that ressource? Disagree. The first three are brilliant, but there are a ton of teams with more depth.

(Notice Ben that I havn't yet dissed a player on your side other than Skrtel, who I'm just saying what I've seen... didn't say anything about his inexperience, didn't say anything about him coming from a weak league, playing for a weak country... ok now I have but you get the point...)

Torres. As far as I can tell, a forumer doesn't need to watch Torres to tell how he's doing. Since the beginning of the season, there hasn't been as much talk about Torres' brilliance, and from the matches I have seen, I think it's justified. Plus, the stats arnt there either. And remember, as an Atleti, I know alllllll about Torres' cold patches sometimes. I'd much rather have a consistent Aguero, and I said that when Torres was still a Rojiblanco.

Coupet and Leo can both play League or Cup. Whoever's in form at practice plays. And I never said either was better than Pepe. But I do think you are, once again, underrating them. Just like the defenders.

I don't think you can fully compare the teams based on two matches. Specially that Simao, Forlan and Seitz will either miss the match, or be recently returned. But when the full Atleti is fully clicking, like the PSV and Malaga matches at the beginning of the season before injuries, I'm sure the teams arn't as far behind as you think. Coupet-Lopez-Heitinga-Ujfalusi-Seitaridis-Simao-Maniche-Garcia-Maxi-Forlan-Aguero, Sinama-Garcia-Perea can compete with just about any team in Europe under the right circumstances.

Neller, by challenges I meant dents in the lineups, injuries. I know you've had your share with Carra in the past few seasons, but this season it seems clean, right?

If I look at Liverpool, I see a few flaws that you can't really spot on Atletico. Sure Liverpool has more star power, has more "WOW" players, but they are all concentrated down the middle. I see Atleti's main flaw as wing defending. Fortunatly, I don't see Riera as someone who can take advantage of that. Kuyt, maybe, but it's the speedy wingers we have trouble with. And I'm sure Perea can neutralize Babel in a second. I see Liverpool's main flaw as anything non-center. I can honestly see Dossena and Arbeloa having a bit of trouble handling Maxi and Simao. With Carragher focusing on Aguero, I fancy the Forlan/Sinama versus Skrtel duo.

The matchups will definatly be interesting.

Dossena / Maxi

Arbeloa / Simao

Carragher / Aguero

Skrtel / Forlan

Maniche / Mascherano (when Maniche attacks)

Maniche / Keane (When Maniche defends)

Gerrard / Raul Garcia (who likes to stay back, or Paulo Assuncao)

Torres / Ujfalusi-Heitinga

Modest Wings / Attacking wingbacks

Just think it comes down to a few factors, but when we break it down, it will be close

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Re: UEFA Champions League Discussion thread

Hahahaha to all you Guys who Doubted Famagusta.

Top of our Group!

Above Inter :D

Yeah, great results for them. But it's only two games out of six. Let's see if the results continue ;)

I tip Inter and Werder to qualify. Despite the good early run by Famagusta.

Talking about underdogs - Cluj aren't doing to bad either, beat Roma and drew against a very poor Chelsea. Drogba injured once again! :P

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Re: UEFA Champions League Discussion thread

Ben I have to admit' date=' I thought you were a better forumer, nay person, then that. I have not been dissing every Pool player, I have tried to keep it civilised, but you are taking it way too far. Next to every single Atletico player you always have a sarcastic comment to make.

It wasn't a luck shot that Atleti are in the Champions League ahead of teams like Valencia and Sevilla. You have to stop talking about Pool cause it's got some weird impact on you. Loss of rationality.

I'd like to know how many Atletico matches you've watched this and last season. And not just highlites. Highlites make the keepers and defenders look bad, every time. Exept Franco, strangely enough. He dominates the highlites.

I've watched two Pool matches this year. PSV and Everton. I've gotta say, you'd need to pay me to take on Skrtel. Skrtel seems to be the equivalent of Pablo.

I know I'm jumping around but do you really think you can compare a 19 year old Pongolle who has his manager take out all his morale and a 21 year old Forlan who has his manager take out all his morale to high riding 23 and 27 year olds who had their confidence boosted with lower sides? Once again, seems a bit irrational.

I'm one of Lucas' biggest fans, in fact I was the first to mention the young Gremio prodigy :D , but I don't think he'd get into the top 4 CM's at Atleti. Or Plessis for that matter. Rafa did well to scrap the rotation system, as he really doesn't have that depth anymore. He has the three who can play CL or EPL, Lucas who can sub in to an EPL, and thats it other than Cups.

Not many teams have that ressource? Disagree. The first three are brilliant, but there are a ton of teams with more depth.

(Notice Ben that I havn't yet dissed a player on your side other than Skrtel, who I'm just saying what I've seen... didn't say anything about his inexperience, didn't say anything about him coming from a weak league, playing for a weak country... ok now I have but you get the point...)

Torres. As far as I can tell, a forumer doesn't need to watch Torres to tell how he's doing. Since the beginning of the season, there hasn't been as much talk about Torres' brilliance, and from the matches I have seen, I think it's justified. Plus, the stats arnt there either. And remember, as an Atleti, I know alllllll about Torres' cold patches sometimes. I'd much rather have a consistent Aguero, and I said that when Torres was still a Rojiblanco.

Coupet and Leo can both play League or Cup. Whoever's in form at practice plays. And I never said either was better than Pepe. But I do think you are, once again, underrating them. Just like the defenders.

I don't think you can fully compare the teams based on two matches. Specially that Simao, Forlan and Seitz will either miss the match, or be recently returned. But when the full Atleti is fully clicking, like the PSV and Malaga matches at the beginning of the season before injuries, I'm sure the teams arn't as far behind as you think. Coupet-Lopez-Heitinga-Ujfalusi-Seitaridis-Simao-Maniche-Garcia-Maxi-Forlan-Aguero, Sinama-Garcia-Perea can compete with just about any team in Europe under the right circumstances.

Neller, by challenges I meant dents in the lineups, injuries. I know you've had your share with Carra in the past few seasons, but this season it seems clean, right?

If I look at Liverpool, I see a few flaws that you can't really spot on Atletico. Sure Liverpool has more star power, has more "WOW" players, but they are all concentrated down the middle. I see Atleti's main flaw as wing defending. Fortunatly, I don't see Riera as someone who can take advantage of that. Kuyt, maybe, but it's the speedy wingers we have trouble with. And I'm sure Perea can neutralize Babel in a second. I see Liverpool's main flaw as anything non-center. I can honestly see Dossena and Arbeloa having a bit of trouble handling Maxi and Simao. With Carragher focusing on Aguero, I fancy the Forlan/Sinama versus Skrtel duo.

The matchups will definatly be interesting.

Dossena / Maxi

Arbeloa / Simao

Carragher / Aguero

Skrtel / Forlan

Maniche / Mascherano (when Maniche attacks)

Maniche / Keane (When Maniche defends)

Gerrard / Raul Garcia (who likes to stay back, or Paulo Assuncao)

Torres / Ujfalusi-Heitinga

Modest Wings / Attacking wingbacks

Just think it comes down to a few factors, but when we break it down, it will be close[/quote']

Now that I reread the length of that, I can state that no one will bother to read it lol

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Re: UEFA Champions League Discussion thread

Now that I reread the length of that' date=' I can state that no one will bother to read it lol[/quote']

I read it :) very good post the only thing I would say to the people who say Torres is going through a "cold" patch well.. he isnt.

He came back late from the Euro's and then within a game or so he pulled a hamstring.

I dont care who the player is, Torres, Aguero, Berbs, if they get an unlucky start to the season like that they are going to struggle.

since he came back he has been playing excellent, scored 2 at Everton and played very well last night (had a hand in all 3 goals).

I think Torres has 3 goals in 4 games (not sure how many assists) in the EPL this season add that to the start I mentioned earlier and I think the stats look good.

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Re: UEFA Champions League Discussion thread

I read it :) very good post the only thing I would say to the people who say Torres is going through a "cold" patch well.. he isnt.

He came back late from the Euro's and then within a game or so he pulled a hamstring.

I dont care who the player is' date=' Torres, Aguero, Berbs, if they get an unlucky start to the season like that they are going to struggle.

since he came back he has been playing excellent, scored 2 at Everton and played very well last night (had a hand in all 3 goals).

I think Torres has 3 goals in 4 games (not sure how many assists) in the EPL this season add that to the start I mentioned earlier and I think the stats look good.[/quote']

Wow thanks. That makes one person who read it :) Feel like repping you for just reading ;)

Once again, basing the whole cold patch on the lack of comparisons to Jesus on the forum this year :D

He did go through a few cold ones for us though. Quite a few.

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Re: UEFA Champions League Discussion thread

Please give evidence to back up where I am being biased.... Did Skrtel and Carra not have a great game against Man Utd... or was it just United's attack :P:rolleyes:;)

When we attacked both of them looked vulnerable but unfortunately we didn't do it enough and Liverpool's midfield played well.......can't believe I am saying this:eek:

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Re: UEFA Champions League Discussion thread

Some good statistics there my friend. I am relishing the encounter between Liverpool and Atletico, and relishing to see how the Madrid forwards do against Carra and Skrtel.

And also to be fair, no surprise seeing Xavi as top assist, brilliant little midfield maestro :D

One player who will do well in this competition I feel is Robin Van Persie ;)

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Re: UEFA Champions League Discussion thread

Some good statistics there my friend. I am relishing the encounter between Liverpool and Atletico' date=' and relishing to see how the Madrid forwards do against Carra and Skrtel.

And also to be fair, no surprise seeing Xavi as top assist, brilliant little midfield maestro :D

One player who will do well in this competition I feel is Robin Van Persie ;)[/quote']

Xavi being top isnt THAT outstanding. 'cause after all, he IS tied with Luis Garcia... :(

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  • 3 weeks later...

Re: UEFA Champions League Discussion thread

Some good statistics there my friend. I am relishing the encounter between Liverpool and Atletico' date=' and relishing to see how the Madrid forwards do against Carra and Skrtel.

And also to be fair, no surprise seeing Xavi as top assist, brilliant little midfield maestro :D

One player who will do well in this competition I feel is Robin Van Persie ;)[/quote']

any team updates for atletico?

torres and skrtel are definite absentees.

I reckon rafa would only send the team out for a draw, given the fact that the match against Chelsea on Sun is more important.

cheers

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