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Stop Club Hoppers!

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I've thought of an great idea that could stop club hoppers in SM once and for all!

So it starts like this:

Each and every manager active right now and every manager set to join in the future is given 100 loyalty points attached to their I.P so it applies for everyone of their accounts, once they take a team in any standard or custom setup and leaves without playing 1 single game they lose 20 loyalty points, if they leave without completing one season but have played more than one game they lose only 10 loyalty points.

But if a club hopper leaves a club in a Gold Championship they lose 20 loyalty points for each club they leave before completing a whole season.

Once a managers loyalty point reaches 20 they cannot join a GC for 1 month, once it reaches 10 they cannot join a GC for 2 months and finally once the loyalty points reaches 0 the manager is not prohibited to join any setup for a year!

I honestly think this is an excellent idea and will stop the number of people leaving a setup after shortly joining the club!

TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK AND DO NOT LET THIS THREAD ROT!:)

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Guest ExiledScotInTheUSA

Re: Stop Club Hoppers!

This has been talked about before in other threads, the guy who loses points just starts a new account and off he goes again till he's penalised again, and so the cycle continues. David

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Re: Stop Club Hoppers!

It's a nice idea. I'm fully in favour of bringing in some kind of points system to stop club hopping. It would be nice to be able to view the squad etc of a team before you take control though (that could be possible for all I know. I haven't taken on a new club for well over a year, excluding the custom setup I joined a few months ago). Last time I changed clubs, I think the only information I got was the bank balance.

There is a problem though. Most ISPs these days don't assign static IPs to their customers (meaning your IP address may not be the same next time you log in as it is now). Some ISPs even forcibly change your IP once every 24 hours (or similar time period), and it's even quite easy to change it yourself in many cases (e.g. I could change mine right now just by switching my router off for a couple of minutes). Certain network settings can limit the changes to every few weeks or months, but that's not for every user and it still doesn't guarantee you will have the same IP next time you log into SM.

I don't know if there's a way around all that (I'm an intermediate, not an expert), but my instinct says there isn't. :(

Then there's the people who play on their university network (or at work or anything similar). All the computers will probably have the same public IP... so if one person is an idiot, all the SM users at their university could end up being banned from taking on new clubs. :P

The best way of assigning a points system that I can think of, is by using email addresses. That wouldn't completely stop club hopping, as people can always get a new email account, but it might reduce it slightly (any improvement is good, right?). How many people would keep setting up new email accounts just so they can play SM? They might do it once or twice maybe, but after that I suspect most people would either just give up trying, or stop whatever activity is getting them banned.

Very nice idea, just difficult to implement unfortunately.

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Re: Stop Club Hoppers!

I've thought of an great idea that could stop club hoppers in SM once and for all!

So it starts like this:

Each and every manager active right now and every manager set to join in the future is given 100 loyalty points attached to their I.P so it applies for everyone of their accounts' date=' once they take a team in any standard or custom setup and leaves without playing 1 single game they lose 20 loyalty points, if they leave without completing one season but have played more than one game they lose only 10 loyalty points.

But if a club hopper leaves a club in a Gold Championship they lose 20 loyalty points for each club they leave before completing a whole season.

Once a managers loyalty point reaches 20 they cannot join a GC for 1 month, once it reaches 10 they cannot join a GC for 2 months and finally once the loyalty points reaches 0 the manager is not prohibited to join any setup for a year!

I honestly think this is an excellent idea and will stop the number of people leaving a setup after shortly joining the club![/b']

TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK AND DO NOT LET THIS THREAD ROT!:)

I never thought of that. Thats a good thought.

But what happens when loyalty points get attached to an IP of a computer of a school/library/place of work? it's like banning IP's, mate. The idea is good but not feasible unless this can be rectified.

btw I think not being able to join a setup for a whole year is harsh. maybe 2-3 weeks tops.

The E-mail one is better but it takes up unnecessary bandwidth when the person has to make a new account.

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Re: Stop Club Hoppers!

I think not being able to join a setup for a whole year is harsh. maybe 2-3 weeks tops.

To be fair, I think the punishment needs to be harsh, otherwise it isn't going to deter people.

And think about it... to get a yearlong ban, a user would need to leave 5 different clubs before playing a game, or 10 within the first season. It's not like they haven't had enough chances by that point.

Maybe loyalty points should be awarded for staying with the same club too though (e.g. 10 points for every 3 full seasons, but only up to a maximum of the 100 they started with). Otherwise, someone could end up getting banned for leaving 5 clubs over say a 2-3 year period, which isn't really what I'd call club hopping.

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Re: Stop Club Hoppers!

I don't like it, and I don't think it's fair at all. A lot of people don't club hop, they just get disenchanted with the club, and want to free up a space.

For example I just left my own Man United, after 30 turns, because it's too easy, too boring, and I wanted more space for a GC.

Another example. In GC30 I took Bari. Then I decided I didn't want them and would rather wait for another GC. So I left. Then I changed my mind again and took them back. Then when the next GC was announced, I decided that I'd rather go for that GC.

That would cost me 50 points right there.

Through all my accounts, I constantly leave teams before a season, as I either get bored of them, or I want some more space for a new custom or a GC.

In any case, if you were, say, Middlesbrough in a GC, then you saw Milan become available before Turn 1, would you not jump ship? I certainly would.

This wouldn't be at all fair, and I personally hate it.

In fact, if this gets implemented I'd probably just leave SM. :rolleyes:

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Re: Stop Club Hoppers!

Through all my accounts' date=' I constantly leave teams before a season, as I either get bored of them, or I want some more space for a new custom or a GC.

In any case, if you were, say, Middlesbrough in a GC, then you saw Milan become available before Turn 1, would you not jump ship? I certainly would.

This wouldn't be at all fair, and I personally hate it.[/quote']

Maybe 10 games would be better than a full season?

And yes, most people probably would. The idea only punishes people who do it all the time (true club hoppers) assuming my idea of rewarding loyalty is used as well as punishing disloyalty. You would get your lost points back by sticking with Milan for a couple of seasons. Only people who switch clubs all the time (which you have to admit is very annoying to other users) would be punished.

People who change clubs in a similar way to yourself are the reason I added the bit in my 2nd post about allowing users to get their points back somehow. How would that be unfair?

Do you have any suggestions how the system could be improved, instead of just attacking the idea?

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Re: Stop Club Hoppers!

Just responding to the first post mate.

And no' date=' I don't have any suggestions. I'm just making my point why I disagree with it...[/quote']

That's fair enough. :)

Just thought a bit of constructive criticism might be more useful that's all.

And sorry if I came across a bit harsh there. Wasn't meaning to argue. :P

How about this maybe?

Start with 100pts

Leave before 1 game played gets -20pts

Leave before 10 games played gets -10pts

Leave before 20 games played gets -5pts

Rejoining the same club before that club plays another game gets the points back that you lost (so your situation with Bari etc wouldn't be punished)

Stay with club for 50 games gets +10pts

(once you reach 100, no extra points are awarded until you fall below 100)

I still don't know exactly how it could be implemented (IP isn't possible because of the reasons in my 1st post, SM account isn't effective, email is a compromise but not ideal), but I can't see how a points structure similar to that wouldn't be fair.

(sorry if you think I'm butting in a bit too much Ash :o)

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Re: Stop Club Hoppers!

One of the best ways imo, instead of punishing unloyal managers is to really reward the loyal ones.

All sorts could be added so when you hit a certain "loyalty" amount something gets unlocked, these things would not give you a massive advantage against other managers but could just be extra stuff or even stuff like more chairman trust with transfers, extra slots, other small things then if you hit a really high loyalty points you would get a free setup or something.

The loyalty bonus points for the above would definitley need to be based on how long you stayed with a club and not how long you have had your account, for example I have been with both my Grimsby Town teams since I started SM over 2 years ago.

You could even get a +1 loyalty bonus when you reject a job offer etc.

All sorts could be added and worked on ive just typed this up really fast and thought of it as I typed, it could be a really good thing to reward managers who stick with there clubs, and then club hoppers would not get these features.

Schuldiner - I think SM added it in ages ago where you can see your squad etc before you take over them, not 100% sure if its still there because like you I dont really take over many sides.

Seft - people can only really use that excuse the first time they do it tho, IE if they take over a Man Utd / Milan and find things 2 easy to hop around, then surely they would not do it again and maybe stick to the challenge off a really poor team

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Re: Stop Club Hoppers!

SORRY but this idea is awefull

Thanks

Carl

Great argument to make mate! :)

As Darshan mentioned, what about relatives / siblings using the same cpmuter? Surely they use the same IP address and may be deducted points just because of another member - Which seems harsh really.

I don't think banning a member for a year from GC will be a good idea. They've paid for this specific feature and should be entitled to acquire a club whenever they want.

Club hopping isn't actually CHEATING and therefore isn't prohibited. But to club hop to gain an unfair advantage IS! What if I manager Portsmouth in GC38 but found United was available? Obviously I would jump to the chance.

Why not just make it... A manager is ONLY allowed to quit a club AFTER FIVE TURNS of him acquiring it.

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Re: Stop Club Hoppers!

One of the best ways imo' date=' instead of punishing unloyal managers is to really reward the loyal ones.

[/quote']

This is it.

This is the only thing they can do, without causing so much of a stir the same way the idea of punishing people has (on this thread at least)

Everyone has the right to do whatever they want, and they can continue doing so. Those good managers who stick with a club should get rewarded for well, playing the game properly.

One more thing on this topic.

A main reason imo, that people hop clubs is because SM creates like, what, 25 setups a day? Not all these setups get past the 75% mark even if they are made at peak hours, and if you checked this setup out a week later, you'd find that the occupancy is perhaps around 40%. This is because with every new setup made, the manager sees as opportunity to manage a bigger club, and just like Harry Redknapp, he isn't going to let it pass.

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Re: Stop Club Hoppers!

This is it.

This is the only thing they can do' date=' without causing so much of a stir the same way the idea of punishing people has (on this thread at least)

Everyone has the right to do whatever they want, and they can continue doing so. Those good managers who stick with a club should get rewarded for well, playing the game properly.

One more thing on this topic.

A main reason imo, that people hop clubs is because SM creates like, what, 25 setups a day? Not all these setups get past the 75% mark even if they are made at peak hours, and if you checked this setup out a week later, you'd find that the occupancy is perhaps around 40%. This is because with every new setup made, the manager sees as opportunity to manage a bigger club, and just like Harry Redknapp, he isn't going to let it pass.[/quote']

I agree with this. People getting rewarded is much better then people getting punished.

And, a main reason there are so many setups is becuase lots of people buy them. And a way to stop this is :

Say 2 people want to buy a WC. But one wants a Man Utd and the other wants a Barcelona, then they should both get the club...but only 1 setup is made.

Also, I remember when I first joined setups were only made at 10 am, 1 pm and 5pm. I think that it should be like that. All the setups bought between 5:01 - 09:58 should be made at 10 am for example (with my other idea implemented iswell)

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Re: Stop Club Hoppers!

Good debate going on a topic which is a bug bear of mine. Club hopping is no doubt an issue which can ruin many set-ups and the playing experience for so many of us. But to really discuss the topic we really need to define the term club hopping. Some would say any frequent movement from club to club, be it within a set-up or from set-up to set-up is club hopping, but using seftinho's example where he left a Man Utd side after 30 turns is perhaps not. Others would argue that this is still club hopping.

It's tricky to define and equally tricky to find a solution. If some of the measures suggested were put in place that would impact on future team selection such as Alishco's idea from the original post, on the face of it, it would be a great deterrent. But the opposite could occur. If members knew they would be punished for their club hopping in this way, maybe they'll just stick with their team until the allotted time passes for them to keep the majority of their points. In the meantime, they'll pay no attnetion to tactics, fitness and just let their team rot full well knowing they intend to quit the team a the set date. This could potentially ruin the experience more for other members in the league than if the member leaves the team potentially for someone else to take over. In fact, with the proposed team AI changes in the pipeline, it may be even better for others in the set-up if the manager left rather than going through the motions.

Hence, I beleive Neller's suggestion of rewarding loyalty is the better option. If some form of reward was to become available by staying loyal to clubs and loyal to set-ups I'm sure more of us members would be encouraged to stay rather than seeking the next best team in the next set-up. The knock on effects of applying loyalty bonuses would also be great. If enough members were encouraged to stay on at their clubs, SM may not find the need to make so many set-ups, a bugbear of so many currently. The reason SM create so many set-ups is the fact that their is a demand from it's community who are unhappy with their current selection of clubs. If we can be made happy to stick with our clubs in some way, then SM will make less set-ups :) . Also fuller set-ups will mean more competitive set-ups and more enjoyable gameplaying experience for all of us.

There are already a couple of threads looking at suggestions for rewarding loyalty, which are a fascinating read and all that have contributed here, may also wish to add their twopence worth there (the second one may appeal to many) :) :

http://forum.soccermanager.com/showthread.php?t=28625

http://forum.soccermanager.com/showthread.php?p=385217#post385217

Not that I'm suggesting there is anything wrong with this idea/proposal :) . I feel SM are always a little tentative when it comes to punishing measures, as at the end of the way, they are a business and the last thing they would want to do is to drive away customers by perhaps seeming to be too harsh. This sentiment has already been echoed by some in this thread. SM already have some measures in place to counter club-hopping, but as per business reasons I mentioned, they will appear weak to some of us. But then again, with some refinement, I see no idea why such a measure may not work in some capacity.

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Guest ExiledScotInTheUSA

Re: Stop Club Hoppers!

One of the best ways imo' date=' instead of punishing unloyal managers is to really reward the loyal ones.

All sorts could be added so when you hit a certain "loyalty" amount something gets unlocked, these things would not give you a massive advantage against other managers but could just be extra stuff or even stuff like more chairman trust with transfers, extra slots, other small things then if you hit a really high loyalty points you would get a free setup or something.

The loyalty bonus points for the above would definitley need to be based on how long you stayed with a club and not how long you have had your account, for example I have been with both my Grimsby Town teams since I started SM over 2 years ago.

You could even get a +1 loyalty bonus when you reject a job offer etc.

All sorts could be added and worked on ive just typed this up really fast and thought of it as I typed, it could be a really good thing to reward managers who stick with there clubs, and then club hoppers would not get these features.

Schuldiner - I think SM added it in ages ago where you can see your squad etc before you take over them, not 100% sure if its still there because like you I dont really take over many sides.

Seft - people can only really use that excuse the first time they do it tho, IE if they take over a Man Utd / Milan and find things 2 easy to hop around, then surely they would not do it again and maybe stick to the challenge off a really poor team[/quote']

This is somewhere along the lines that I suggested in a similar thread, since it seems too hard to punish the hoppers, let's reward the loyal managers in some way. I think it needs a lot of fine tuning whatever is decided. David

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Guest joe black

Re: Stop Club Hoppers!

Why do people take over clubs for an hour and then leave,they can see everything you need to see without taking control:confused:

Check out the News feed everyday in the Gold setups.....

"Jimmy Ribe is the new manager of Brondby"

next post is..

The Brondby fans are disappointed that Jimmy Ribe has left the club after 0 games in charge"

Transfer market is messed up for 48 hours and any transfer offers that have been made have now collapsed.......its cheating,plain and simple and should be treated as such,only reason you need to take over a club and not even stay for one game is to collapse transfers:rolleyes:

Manipulation of the Transfer market is against SM CoC,course they have 40 Setups to pick from now;):)

I feel SM are always a little tentative when it comes to punishing measures, as at the end of the way, they are a business and the last thing they would want to do is to drive away customers by perhaps seeming to be too harsh

To the detriment of the other 7000 paying members that are trying to play by the rules SD:rolleyes:

SM have to think of the greater good and grasp the nettle;)

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Re: Stop Club Hoppers!

Id like to point out in defence of some club hoppers for the big clubs like Milan,Barca and the mediums eg Zenit.Spurs

I quit my marseille and was looking for a good middle/big club but the race for the best is tricky and if you spend a moment looking at the squad youll get if you take over that team you may lose it so they just click Manage club and notice all the star players have gone and little or no money!!!

I joined a Atletico Madrid as quickly as i could when it came free and didnt have time to review the team as i was in such a hurry quickly found all players over 90 gone and lil money normally i like this kind of challenge but that wasnt what i wanted this time around as my Tottenham was so much hard work!

So please look at reason why people are quitting these clubs rather than just how to punish them :D

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Guest joe black

Re: Stop Club Hoppers!

Id like to point out in defence of some club hoppers for the big clubs like Milan,Barca and the mediums eg Zenit.Spurs

Well, your out of order in my eyes and there is no defence,you are breaking the rules,there is no justifiacation,you are ruining the gaming experience for a lot of other managers and because a lot of managers do it doesn't make it right,so collapsing transfer offers and putting back the transfers by 48 hours is defensable?????,not in my eyes and Im talking about clubs that have been unmanaged for days,check out the News Feed,not managers diving to get "Big" clubs before anyone else,teams like Getafe,Toulca,Sparta Praha and Brondby,why would a manager take control of them and then quit them within an hour???????

Only 2 explanations....They are incredibly stupid and self-centered or they are doing it to collapse transfers:eek:

So please look at reason why people are quitting these clubs rather than just how to punish them

We know the reasons why they are quitting,its too collapse transfers and/or they just dont care what repercussions there actions have on any other manager because there is no detterent :rolleyes:

So please find a way to punish these managers and dont be making excuses for them;):)

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Guest joe black

Re: Stop Club Hoppers!

But he sorta said he was one of them... so he wouldn't wanna punish himself would he?:P

very true' date=':P

This is what im getting at and its the same in all Gold Setups almost everyday:rolleyes:

[b']Genoa manager Joe Bloggs has decided to part company with the club after 0 games in charge.

Genoa have appointed Joe Bloggs as the clubs new manager.

[/b]

This is from the News Feed in a Gold Setup this morning,i have changed the names to protect the stupid,now anybody who made an offer on Genoa players and is hoping they are getting up this morning to see if a transfer has gone through will get up to see that they have collapsed and they will have to wait another 48 hours to bid again,all because 1 cant see further than the end of his own nose and doesn't give a toss about the other 180,000 managers who enjoy playing SM:rolleyes:...........this is what we are up against and this is not an isolated incident multiply it by 50,100,500,1000, managers then you start to get the big picture;):)

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Re: Stop Club Hoppers!

Hmm... I'm not sure rewarding loyal managers would help at all really. The only people who would be interested in any of the benefits suggested are those who are considerate and don't club hop anyway. Let's face it... unless you want to give someone an unfair advantage, no reward could possibly be as beneficial as abusing the rules of the game.

It's like giving a bar of chocolate to thugs on the nights they don't go out and mug a pensioner... or the infamous 'Hug a Hoodie' campaign. :P There's a reason discipline in schools was better in the days of the cane than in the days of the gold star. Users who make the game less enjoyable for others need to be stopped somehow, not rewarded because they happen to behave for the odd few weeks.

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