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Official French Ligue 1 & 2 Thread


Philippe Nguyen
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Re: French Ligue 1 and 2

Hopefully, Montpellier will never play without Giroud upfront. I've never seen a player (striker) beeing so important for the team overall performance. Lorient totally just edged it on every area on the field. Estrada, Belhanda (especially) and Marveaux were out of sight, as Lorient controlled the midfield easily - and with style. Perhaps this had to do with the fact that Estrada and Belhanda didn't have anyone they could hit the crosses on which they've done throughout the season with elegance (especially Estrada), as Giroud, the only real targetman at Montpellier, wasn't on the field for most parts of the match. This slowed down Montpellier's build-up and they just were to slow in the midfield, and Mvuemba and Romao had no problems with taking them out of the game, which meant that Montpellier's attack didn't exist, as Estrada is the who starts them.

Perhaps they atrifical grass changed Girard's and Montpellier's game plan, though? I doubt it, though, seeing as their attacks starts with long-balls from Estrada to Giroud, who then either shoots or passes it to a fellow partner. Either way, Montpellier were awful and Lorient out-concured them in every area. I raise my hat to them, but they should have just scored - why didn't Kitambala start (Amalfitano should play in the midfield, not upfront)....?

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Re: French Ligue 1 and 2

I do not care where the club comes from. Herenveen' date=' from The Netherlands, has also a stadium that is bigger than the population of the city. Still, they had Pranjic in their teams just 2 seasons ago and now, they have one of the bigger talents in Europe in Djuricic. In the past, still this decade, they've had talented players in Klaas-Jan Huntelaar, Michael Bradley and Miralem Sulejmani playing their trade for them. It doesn't really matter where the clubs comes from...

What's your bullish about Lens? ''They would be in Ligue 2 or National''. Last season, with a very limited investment by Martel, Lens, against all odds, managed to finish on an honourable 11th place. However, as the finish doesn't show, we needed more quality players to risk another relegation for the fourthcoming season (this one). Still, we don't see players coming in. I don't even think we bought [b']one single player for this season[/b]. Historically, we are a bigger club than Lorient and Le Mans. We should really follow their structure when it comes to transfer-buissness. I'm especially imprssed of how they landed a quality defender in Gregory Bourillon for only 1.7M € earlier this year. If Martel would just realise then that Sartre and Chelle aren't capable of playing an important role in a Ligue 1 defence, I'm sure we'd stand a nice chance of landing Bourillon. Not only Bourillon is a player I'd love to see - Ecuele Manga, Kitambala and Romao are all important players for Lorient nowadays and they all joined for peanuts fees this summer. Instead of not spending one little € this past summer, why couldn't Martel spend somewhere in the region of 5-6M € (which only Nene cost Paris) in order to land those players + Kevin Constant, who took the step from Ligue 2 to Serie A (Chievo) on a free transfer (!) and he has been so impressive there that Milan and Inter reportedly are scouting him.

Besides, it's Martel's fault we got relegated back in 2008. It whole started during the January-window in 2007 when he sold key-players (like Jussiê). Pre-window, we were sitting on a fine 2nd place in the table, just some points behind supreme Lyon. However, when January had past, we started to drop and drop points against outfits that we should really beat with blindfools. I still recall the last matchday of that season, we were on a 4th place, but if we would beat Troyes, who already had secured relegation to Ligue 2, at the Felix-Bollaert, we would qualify for the CL and perhaps if we did it, our hero - Seydou Keita perhaps hadn't left us. Anyway, we lost and Intertoto play was secured for the upcoming season. Well, the 2007/08 season was just a repeat of the 2nd half of the 2006/07 season. Despite having players such a Sablé, Bisevac, Mangane, Hilton, Coulibaly, Monterrubio, Akale, Kalou and Aruna in the team, we ended up getting relegated. The simplest explation for that is that we continued the bad form that hit after January 2007, after Martel did some stupid deals. Although there came up minor problems during the 07/08 season, it was Martel's act during the window that laid the ground for our relegation.

Also, about yesterdays game: I'm so bitter. I just knew Bordeaux would equalize sooner or later after the referee added 7 minutes to the stoppage time! Thanks carma - Diarra, Ben Khalfallah and Diabate were so frustrated late in the 2nd half and they injured Runje by purpose - the playing-time goes by, as Runje lays down on the ground hurted and needs to get subbed-out, which only adds extra-time to the game - referee adds more minutes to the stoppage time. Then, minutes into the stoppage time, Bordeaux equalize. These Bordeaux players are scum - I hope they continue their trend and don't make it to Europe - they don't deserve it, to be honest. Besides, their 1st half was the poorest one I've ever since in French football.

I know I'm not going to change your mind of a fanatic - I can read it, not only from your biased rant, but also from your signature, "never forgive, never forget", the bitter byword of the rabble -, but just so that the others, perhaps not familiar with the recent and less recent events of French football wouldn't mistake your rant for truth, I correct the facts.

1. I doesn't matter whether Heerenveen had Pranjic few seasons ago. You know, Le Mans had Drogba few seasons before he broke through in EPL, so sure they're big-rear-end club and every investor just yearns to throw his money to the clubs general direction, no? Why not? Because talent comes through small clubs, but it's the big clubs that buy it, and having some good talents in history just doesn't make the club big one. Sure, Le Mans is also coming back to Ligue 1 while Lens is going to the other direction, but that's not the point.

The point is, that no one will invest truck loads of money to Le Mans, nor will anyone do that for Lens - except for Martel, the saviour of les Sang et Or whom you shamelessly despise. In times of hard economy, when Bordeaux and Monaco have problems in investing few millions and Rooney had to force ManU board/owners to allow more spending, you think Lens just has that money? Lorient had it because they sold Koscielny for over 10 million €. Not everybody has the courage and the skills to find and develop the youth from Ligue 2 and reserves of Ligue 1. In Lorient there sure is that, and players see that.

Or, think of it this way: you take Heerenveen as an example, but are they actually competing in CL? Is there a huge bidding contest for the club? Do they have businessmen in line waiting for bidding for the club? No, because it is not an attractive club for owners. It can have it's success to some extent, but it just doesn't have potential to be one of the bigs.

Auxerre is by far more successful than Lens, for example. In fact, it is one of the most successful clubs of France in 90's and this millennium. I recall that 2008, it was second only to OL in ligue 1 in the tv-revenues given according to the league position in 8 last seasons. Never relegated, often in Europe, always in top 8 (I'm pretty sure, didn't check though). Still, it is not very attractive for investors, because there's little business to make with Auxerre (although the town actually is a lively agricultural and particularly viticultural centre, it nevertheless is a small country side village). Monaco is more so, because it is sort of naturally wealthy club, it will always do well, and both during first decade of this millennium and in the last decade of the one that passed, it has been able to build a top CL class squad with big time star players. Lens comes from an abandoned industrial area and at best it has been able to challenge the bigger clubs. That it has ever got quality players is only due to Martel, who is only person in world who has been ready to invest big money to Lens. And still, the stars of Lens in last two decades or so have been Moreira, Vairelles, Déhu, Monterrubio, Warmuz, Roudet, Sablé and Keita. Not bad players, but compare to Monaco: Maicon, Evra, Henry, Ikpeba, Klinsmann, Scifo, Thuram, Djorkaeff, Sonny Anderson, Ali Benarbia, Trezeguet, Marquez, Sagnol, Givet, Christanval, Squillaci Gallardo, Rothen, Giuly, Barthez, Nonda, Morientes... The difference in quantity and quality is manifest and there's a reason to it.

You might not care about the social and economical conditions of where a club comes from, but your ignorance is not widely shared by investors and they do take notice of these things because they actually do matter. They do matter a lot, because they are decisive for the clubs general vitality, and for these reasons a club like Lens has no great future ahead of it. The club lives because of Martel's fantastic work, it has a good fan base now, but for next 20 years or so, I'd say no glory is coming. After that, who knows, perhaps the area gets a huge economical boost during this time, something not yet foreseen, but until then, to get a respectable mid table position in Ligue 1 will be the heavens for les Sang et Or. Many greater clubs, such as Nottingham and Sochaux have gone down with the low local economies. These things happen, and only very exceptional events and the work of one man have saved Lens from this.

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Re: French Ligue 1 and 2

2. Now, here we go to the point of you being a RC Lens AC MIlan etc. glory supporter without knowledge about clubs you support. RC LENS WAS IN LIGUE 2 BEFORE MARTEL'S TAKEOVER. Yes, and it was not as if they just had "a little bad period in middle of their grand success", which they had not: all that Lens had won prior to Martel's takeover was one lousy cup. They were going downwards and not bouncing back, not until one local businessman intervened the normal events of economic development... No one else would have wasted his wealth to Lens, except for Martel, who did that because he is a local man and loves the club. Every single good thing that Lens has got since 88 is due to Martel investing in it and turned it into a growing business (like Tapie did to l'OM when it had become a small Ligue 2 club, and Aulas to l'OL, also a small Ligue 2 club before that, though neither of them were as puny as Lens was before Martel) - and then you dare accuse him for ruining the club and beg for him to sell the club?!

Fortunately the Lens fans usually are not so out of their minds but instead understand to respect Martel and thank him for club's success. You should too. Without Martel, Lens would currently mean to you about as much as, say, Le Havre, or perhaps. Everybody sensible in Lyon gives respect to Aulas for club's success, no matter how badly club would too compared to recent years, because it is all thanks to him. Tapie always remained the people's favorite in Marseille, for a good reason. Likewise, when Lens' fans have started to protest against their club's current management, they don't speak against Martel, they speak to him. They want new GK (none of the 2 they have now is convincing), they want new defence (no wonder why), they want ne striker (I can see why, those guys wouldn't do in Ligue 2), they want new manager (acceptable - btw, it seems to be Santini they want), they want players to try and respect the club, the supporters and eachother (understandable) but they are not dumb enough to ask for Martel to sell the club!!!

see, for example: http://www.lensois.com/breve-rclens-34858-les-supporters-de-lens-ont-la-parole-4-.html

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Re: French Ligue 1 and 2

3. Well bitterness is in the nature of the scum, but you have no reason to be bitter for Bordeaux-Lens match, in which referee saved poor Lens team. I take your bs down one point after another.

Firstly, Bordeaux only needed 2 minutes of extra time to tie the match. So that's it about the huge 7 minutes, they didn't matter for the result. If Lens has to fear for losing when they lead and have a man advantage, what does that tell of the team? Really didn't deserve to get a point from that match.

Secondly, nobody had purpose to hurt Runje. Nobody has claimed that before you either, not the furious fans of Lens, not the free press, not even Runje, who has a big mouth. Diarra kicked the ball when it was still in play. Yes, Runje got the ball to his arms but doing that he stuck his face between the ball and Diarra's foot when Diarra's foot was already almost hitting the ball. Dangerous play. Yes. Worth a yellow card it got. Perhaps, I'd say yes, though Runje was playing it quite dangerously himself and it wasn't clear that Diarra actually broke any rule. Worth a red card, no, and since the first yellow card came from nowhere, Diarra should have stayed on field. So, ref actually saved Lens, that was battered by Bordeaux, by giving Lens a man advantage. Of course, the team was poor enough not to handle it.

Thirdly, sure even during this season there has been worse football than what Bordeaux played on first half of that match. Lens hardly had those 2 scoring chances that they used and actually Bordeaux was very close to score too - Runje saved his team few times with parade saves.

Fourthly, whether or not les Bordelais deserve the place in Europe remains to be seen in spring season. So far they are pretty much where they deserve to be, fighting for it but not quite there. Nothing in that Lens match changed that: one bad half, one very good. Once again, they fought, even in man disadvantage, fro the edge of a defeat to secure one point, even though full 3 points were clear objective and result was disappointing. What I can say, however, that Lens doesn't have a team of ligue 1 quality, as I said before the season (and you argued that Lens has a team to compete for the places in the European cups, haha!). Just because of that, I find easily 17 teams in Ligue that I'd rather see staying in the top level too. And thus, I hope that unless big changes happen, they don't deprive one better team from a place in Ligue 1. Also, with rants like that, with your lack of knowledge of history of clubs and leagues you talk about, with your lack of respect to those who have made the success of the club you support, with your dishonesty and bias... well, it wouldn't be so bad if your team went back to Ligue 2, though it's not the club's, its personnels' or its players' fault what you write and they shouldn't suffer for that.

For other's here's the highlights of the match:

http://www.101greatgoals.com/videodisplay/bordeaux-lens-7938189/3. Well bitterness is in the nature of the scum, but you have no reason to be bitter for Bordeaux-Lens match, in which referee saved poor Lens team. I take your bs down one point after another.

Firstly, Bordeaux only needed 2 minutes of extra time to tie the match. So that's it about the huge 7 minutes, they didn't matter for the result.

Secondly, nobody purposedly hurt Runje. Nobody has claimed that before you either, not the furious fans of Lens, not the free press, not even Runje, who has a loud mouth. Diarra kicked the ball when it was still in play. Yes, Runje got the ball to his arms but doing that he stuck his face between the ball and Diarra's foot when Diarra's foot was already almost hitting the ball. Dangerous play. Yes. Worth a yellow card it got. Perhaps, I'd say yes, though Runje was playing it quite dangerously himself and it wasn't clear that Diarra actually broke any rule. Worth a red card, no, and since the first yellow card came from nowhere, Diarra should have stayed on field. So, ref actually saved Lens, that was battered by Bordeaux, by giving Lens a man advantage. Of course, the team was poor enough not to handle it.

Thirdly, sure even during this season there has been worse football than what Bordeaux played on first half of that match. Lens hardly had those 2 scoring chances that they used and actually Bordeaux was very close to score too - Runje saved his team few times with parade saves.

Fourthly, whether or not les Bordelais deserve the place in Europe remains to be seen in spring season. So far they are pretty much where they deserve to be, fighting for it but not quite there. Nothing in that Lens match changed that: one bad half, one very good. Once again, they fought, even in man disadvantage, fro the edge of a defeat to secure one point, even though full 3 points were clear objective and result was disappointing. What I can say, however, that Lens doesn't have a team of ligue 1 quality, as I said before the season (and you argued that Lens has a team to compete for the places in the European cups, haha!). Just because of that, I find easily 17 teams in Ligue that I'd rather see staying in the top level too. And thus, I hope that unless big changes happen, they don't deprive one better team from a place in Ligue 1. Also, with rants like that, with your lack of knowledge of history of clubs and leagues you talk about, with your lack of respect to those who have made the success of the club you support, with your dishonesty and bias... well, it wouldn't be so bad if your team went back to Ligue 2, though it's not the club's, its personnels' or its players' fault what you write and they shouldn't suffer for that.

For others here's the highlights of the match:

http://www.101greatgoals.com/videodisplay/bordeaux-lens-7938189/

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Re: French Ligue 1 and 2

I correct the facts.

Who do you think you are...?

I doesn't matter whether Heerenveen had Pranjic few seasons ago. You know' date=' Le Mans had Drogba few seasons before he broke through in EPL, so sure they're big-rear-end club and every investor just yearns to throw his money to the clubs general direction, no? Why not? Because talent comes through small clubs, but it's the big clubs that buy it, and having some good talents in history just doesn't make the club big one. Sure, Le Mans is also coming back to Ligue 1 while Lens is going to the other direction, but that's not the point.[/quote']

That's not clearly my point - you just haven't had time to read it throught, didn't you? I clearly said ''it doesn't matter where the club comes from''. You know, noticing the potential world beaters before the giants means that you have a good scouting facility - which means that on that plan, the smaller clubs can actually challenge the bigger clubs on that plan. They might not be able to challenge financial, but it's still a working plan - Herenveen did actually compete in the UEFA Cup/Europa League several times and Lorient has established themselves in the Ligue 1, for instance.

The point is' date=' that [b']no one[/b] will invest truck loads of money to Le Mans, nor will anyone do that for Lens - except for Martel, the saviour of les Sang et Or whom you shamelessly despise. In times of hard economy, when Bordeaux and Monaco have problems in investing few millions and Rooney had to force ManU board/owners to allow more spending, you think Lens just has that money? Lorient had it because they sold Koscielny for over 10 million €. Not everybody has the courage and the skills to find and develop the youth from Ligue 2 and reserves of Ligue 1. In Lorient there sure is that, and players see that.

Once again: Did you bother to read my post (correctly)?

I clearly stated that we should compete on the same scale as Lorient, not Lyon or Marseille. To do so, we only need to spend about €5-10 million, is that to much to ask? They got promoted to Ligue 1 back in 2006, spent lesser than Lens has during since then, but earned more in income. Doesn't that tell you something? Spending €3 million on Eduardo, for instance, was one of the worst deals I've ever witnessed. The man can't even score in an open goal, to be honest. Why could we do that and not spend €1.7 million on Bourillon, who I'm sure we'd stand a chance to land, as he wanted to get away from the capital and PSG/Kombouare didn't want him? I understand that it requires good eyes to find some talents in the lower leagues or most importantly, manage to get them for lower fees than their true worth. We could do this in the past... pre-relegation 2008, but why can't we do it now? If we haven't spend so much moneys these recent transfer-windows, we should be able to spend a bit on these talents (or unspotted ones) emerging from Ligue 2. I hope we got to see some spendings this January-window. Like you pointed out, I'd welcome defenders, maybe a midfielders and at least 2 new strikers (Boukari is the only one who is good enough). I hope we don't loan these players and we try our luck in Ligue 2.

Monaco is more so' date=' because it is sort of naturally wealthy club, it will always do well, and both during first decade of this millennium and in the last decade of the one that passed, it has been able to build a top CL class squad with big time star players. Lens comes from an abandoned industrial area and at best it has been able to challenge the bigger clubs.[/quote']

Yes, but when you come from a country with lower taxes than what the rest of the teams has in their country, then you are having a sort of advantage economically-speaking. Also, they are sort of sponsored by the Monaco royal-familiy, who at occasions finance them in both the transfer part and the economic part, aswell.

However, I shouldn't take away the fact that Jean-Louis Compora, who ended his 30 year old reign at Monaco as a president in 2003, actually made some good transfers that matched the criteria the manager under his helm had (which can't be said now, in my opinion) and he also invested quite a bit in the scouting/academy facilites.

You might not care about the social and economical conditions of where a club comes from' date=' but your ignorance is not widely shared by investors and they do take notice of these things because they actually do matter. They do matter a lot, because they are decisive for the clubs general vitality, and for these reasons a club like Lens has no great future ahead of it. The club lives because of Martel's fantastic work, it has a good fan base now, but for next 20 years or so, I'd say no glory is coming. After that, who knows, perhaps the area gets a huge economical boost during this time, something not yet foreseen, but until then, to get a respectable mid table position in Ligue 1 will be the heavens for les Sang et Or. Many greater clubs, such as Nottingham and Sochaux have gone down with the low local economies. These things happen, and only very exceptional events and the work of one man have saved Lens from this.[/quote']

You don't get it - I don't demand a place out in Europe. I am aware that it will take some time to rebuild after a relegation, but to see my beloved club playing such an horror football and actually stand on an 19th place, makes me suffer. I just want Martel to follow Lorient's example when it comes to transfering, and I'm sure we'd be fine (mid-table position). Cut these Doumeng's, Sartre's and Eduardo, who all came to Lens for a bigger price than what Amalfitano, Sigamary Diarra or Bourillon came to Lorient. Those three players that came to Lorient, are all now hailed players, buth 2/3 of those who came to Lens are back in Ligue 2 and the 3rd one is simply not good enough.

2. Now' date=' here we go to the point of you being a RC Lens AC MIlan etc. glory supporter without knowledge about clubs you support.[/quote']

Keep coming with them. Why on earth would anybody call me a glory-hunter when I live in Sweden and support a team such as Lens? They aren't exactly the best team in Ligue 1 and infact, one of the worser teams in Ligue 1 at the moment. Just beacuse I don't speak the language and just beacuse I don't live in France, it doesn't make me a glory-hunter. I'm still in school, do you expect me to go to every game? I'll by those travelling-tickets when I get older... when I get older. Calling me a glory-hunter was a cheap shot, man - did you know how hard it got to melt the fact that Lens got relegated? I was 12 then and I had this feeling like when you are losing the love of your life (not that I've done it), am I glory-hunter? Did I suddenly start to follow Marseille beacuse we had Sartre, Doumeng and Chelle and they Heinze, Lucho and Mandanda? I was 13, dissed my friends to follow Lens progession in Ligue 2. I spend every weekend watching Lens on the best possible stream I could get (only finding a stream was hard enough). Am I a glory-hunter? Why would I write rants after rants about a club who haven't won anything for a while? Answer my question! Your just a forumer who thinks you know more about a club than those who actually CARES AND SUPPORT IT. You don't know what you are talking about...

RC LENS WAS IN LIGUE 2 BEFORE MARTEL'S TAKEOVER. Yes' date=' and it was not as if they just had "a little bad period in middle of their grand success", which they had not: all that Lens had won prior to Martel's takeover was one lousy cup. They were going downwards and not bouncing back, not until one local businessman intervened the normal events of economic development... No one else would have wasted his wealth to Lens, except for Martel, who did that because he is a local man and loves the club. Every single good thing that Lens has got since 88 is due to Martel investing in it and turned it into a growing business (like Tapie did to l'OM when it had become a small Ligue 2 club, and Aulas to l'OL, also a small Ligue 2 club before that, though neither of them were as puny as Lens was before Martel) - and then you dare accuse him for ruining the club and beg for him to sell the club?![/quote']

First of all: When did I say Lens didn't start out in Ligue 2 when Martel took over the club?

Lyon started out in Ligue 2 when Aulas took over. They took over their respective clubs in the late 80's, but still Aulas has made a much more better job than what Martel has done. Despite a much more limited income compared to the clubs from the biggest leagues, Aulas has managed to actually pose a threat with his Lyon against them. Tv-revune, gate reception and sponsorship deals all brings a much more smaller amount of cash to Lyon than what it gives to Inter or Manchester United. Still, with some buissness plans, Aulas has turned a former Ligue 2 boat to one of the biggest and competeable ones in Europe. Thanks to some good appointments by Monsieur Aulas (Lacombe), Lyon has had a steady ground to work by. Unlike Monaco, who give their managers the players they want, Lyon works in a hierarcy: The players they think would be the best options for the future are the ones they are investing in. Monaco, who has a decent amount of managers just these recent years, have therefore faded away drastically since the good 03/04 campaign and the glory years, whilst Lyon just kept getting stronger and stronger.

They want new GK (none of the 2 they have now is convincing)' date=' they want new defence (no wonder why), they want ne striker (I can see why, those guys wouldn't do in Ligue 2), they want new manager (acceptable - btw, it seems to be Santini they want), they want players to try and respect the club, the supporters and eachother (understandable) but they are not dumb enough to ask for Martel to sell the club!!![/quote']

I don't what you are talking about: We don't need new 'keepers, Runje and Kasraoui are very stable and good 'keepers. I'm most worried about the defence and the attack, which I hope gets strengthen now by Martel this January.

Also' date=' with rants like that, with your lack of knowledge of history of clubs and leagues you talk about, with your lack of respect to those who have made the success of the club you support, with your dishonesty and bias... well, it wouldn't be so bad if your team went back to Ligue 2, though it's not the club's, its personnels' or its players' fault what you write and they shouldn't suffer for that.[/quote']

I don't want to lose my head now, as I'm a mod, but my god how furious you are making me now. You don't even dare to say where you come from, so please don't say to much. You are acting like if you're ''Mr know-it-all''. You are always there to correct me and such, please don't do so - I dislike it. I accept rants from you, but when you are stating this such as ''you don't know a thing'' or ''I'm here to correct you'', then who do you think you are? You aren't exactly working for those teams, I presume (or don't you dare tell us?), so how could you say that ''you are correcting me'' or that ''I'm wrong''?. I just say what I think and what I knows, just like every other human beeing would do.

Btw, some people stating the same things as I do;

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=466575&page=21

http://lens.theoffside.com/ (there are a bit of how he dislikes Martel in pratically every article)

EDIT: Also, Diabate and another player started to kick on Runje's back in pure frustration, which I said in my previous post. You are not a good reader.

EDIT 2: Meh, might aswell quit the forum... can't stand ^this guy^.

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Re: French Ligue 1 and 2

Meh' date=' might aswell quit the forum... can't stand ^this guy^.[/quote']

Sorry for hurting your feelings. Didn't really mean to. Forgot that you're a kid. Cheer up, don't cry, it ain't that serious. And I'm not being sarcastic. Believe me, I don't have slightest intention to hurt any kid's feelings.

Nevertheless, don't lose your mind if Lens makes no purchases this mercato either. Lens is still under transfer ban and forced salary cap by DNCG and thus can't buy any new players without selling first, and can't rise much wages either. This is normal thing that happens in France to teams that screw their finances. It could be worse too, some times teams are relegated to a lower division.

The way I've understood this, is that Lens' economical problems followed from the relegation to Ligue 2 after a season to which they invested immensely. Martel is not exactly made of money either and when a club with small economical grounds has a very expensive team and then gets relegated to economically way less rewarding Ligue 2, it is an economical catastrophe from which it is very very difficult to rise back up again. And the potential to which a club like Lens can rise to isn't immense anyway.

Before you curse Martel for this too, try to remember that Lens has never been a successful club except during Martel's era. There's no "big club Lens" that Martel had brought down, there's just a small club Lens that Martel brought up.

By the way, Boukari, arguably Lens' best player this season, may be on his way to Rennes, so perhaps Lens will get some funds to buy a new player or two, or maybe they'll loan some (Bordeaux and OM at least are loaning some from their bench, like Saivet and Sabo, who both would be needed in Lens).

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Re: French Ligue 1 and 2

Sorry for hurting your feelings. Didn't really mean to. Forgot that you're a kid. Cheer up' date=' don't cry, it ain't that serious. And I'm not being sarcastic. Believe me, I don't have slightest intention to hurt any kid's feelings.

Nevertheless, don't lose your mind if Lens makes no purchases this mercato either. Lens is still under transfer ban and forced salary cap by DNCG and thus can't buy any new players without selling first, and can't rise much wages either. This is normal thing that happens in France to teams that screw their finances. It could be worse too, some times teams are relegated to a lower division.

The way I've understood this, is that Lens' economical problems followed from the relegation to Ligue 2 after a season to which they invested immensely. Martel is not exactly made of money either and when a club with small economical grounds has a very expensive team and then gets relegated to economically way less rewarding Ligue 2, it is an economical catastrophe from which it is very very difficult to rise back up again. And the potential to which a club like Lens can rise to isn't immense anyway.

Before you curse Martel for this too, try to remember that Lens has never been a successful club except during Martel's era. There's no "big club Lens" that Martel had brought down, there's just a small club Lens that Martel brought up.

By the way, Boukari, arguably Lens' best player this season, may be on his way to Rennes, so perhaps Lens will get some funds to buy a new player or two, or maybe they'll loan some (Bordeaux and OM at least are loaning some from their bench, like Saivet and Sabo, who both would be needed in Lens).[/quote']

ur an idiot mate.

@Pazzano, could i have some info on Marveux, been heavily linked with liverpool :)

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Re: French Ligue 1 and 2

Sorry for hurting your feelings. Didn't really mean to. Forgot that you're a kid. Cheer up' date=' don't cry, it ain't that serious. And I'm not being sarcastic. Believe me, I don't have slightest intention to hurt any kid's feelings.

Nevertheless, don't lose your mind if Lens makes no purchases this mercato either. Lens is still under transfer ban and forced salary cap by DNCG and thus can't buy any new players without selling first, and can't rise much wages either. This is normal thing that happens in France to teams that screw their finances. It could be worse too, some times teams are relegated to a lower division.

The way I've understood this, is that Lens' economical problems followed from the relegation to Ligue 2 after a season to which they invested immensely. Martel is not exactly made of money either and when a club with small economical grounds has a very expensive team and then gets relegated to economically way less rewarding Ligue 2, it is an economical catastrophe from which it is very very difficult to rise back up again. And the potential to which a club like Lens can rise to isn't immense anyway.

Before you curse Martel for this too, try to remember that Lens has never been a successful club except during Martel's era. There's no "big club Lens" that Martel had brought down, there's just a small club Lens that Martel brought up.

By the way, Boukari, arguably Lens' best player this season, may be on his way to Rennes, so perhaps Lens will get some funds to buy a new player or two, or maybe they'll loan some (Bordeaux and OM at least are loaning some from their bench, like Saivet and Sabo, who both would be needed in Lens).[/quote']

It's not only the fact that ''you wished Lens to get relegated'' beacuse of me expressing my thoughts on French football/Lens/Martel, but it's also beacuse you never can accept another theory on a topic other than yours. You can never really accept that you might have fault. Sorry, but that's just what I've gathered up from you during my time here.

I know that the financial disaster that hit us after the relegation back in 2008 was a big step backwards into our economy. We practically sold out our whole starting XI. Coulibaly,Carriere, Belhadj, Lacourt and Monterrubio were all actually performers of that horrendous seasons, but still (now we go back to me critizising Martel), they were sold for a lower fee than what they were worth. I understand Monterrubio and Carriere could go for a cheaper fee depsite beeing one of the best players that season, as they were getting on in age. However, Coulibaly, Bisevac Lacourt were sold for underprices. Lacourt had showed that it isn't hard to make through the academy and actually take a place in the starting XI over a player such as Sablé, who was underperforming. Coulibaly is now a part of one of the most hard-working defences in France and I dare I say it, in Europe as well. That defence has lead Auxerre to CL. Still, they were sold for underprices. We all know by now that Bisevac is one of the best defenders in Ligue 1 now...

I don't want to say that the solely sales of Coulibaly, Lacourt and Bisevac would single-handedly secure Lens' economy, but what I'm trying to sell that ones we had those quality players, why didn't we sell them for a higher-price than what they are worth in order to see our finances in a better shape? I need to say that we sold Seydou Keita the previous year for a much lesser fee than what he is worth, as well. If we would havesold our players for a higher price or altinatively, for their true values, then we would have stand a higher chance of actually not beeing blocked from transfering and actually have a better economy. Now, as we only have low-budget players and non-Ligue 1 players that nobody else but lower Ligue 2 teams, who can't offer a decent amount of cash for them, our economy suffers even more. The fact that we got robbed by Chelsea on a player who could have been ''the saviour of our economy'' (Kakuta), is also a big aspect in this whole situation. I hope we can hang on Thorgan Hazard now and hopefully, he'll develop into a quality player just as his brother.

Sabo, Monsoreau, N'Daw, Coutadeur and Cuvillier are all players who are out favour/given limited playing-time (or in Coutadeur's case, injury-phrone), these players are the players we should try to bring in, as they could max be worth around €2-3 million or so (per player, that is). I'm sure that Galtier at Saint-Etienne wants to get rid of N'Daw, for instance, at any costs (just look how drastically his playing-time has dipped). Cuvillier is just on loan at Nancy from Boulogne, and if Boulogne misses out on promotion, they might want to think about selling as he is way to good for Ligue 2 and they could cash in on him. He is also a player who is good on the wing, which only could benefit us, as the attack is just not good enough.

ur an idiot mate.

@Pazzano' date=' could i have some info on Marveux, been heavily linked with liverpool :)[/quote']

If that is true' date=' then my god what a player you are so close to sign. He has the speed, the technique and he has a really good left-foot. To add aswell: He is very explosive. He is certinaly an improvement of all the left-sided wingers you posseses, for sure.[/quote']

From the Liverpool thread...

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Re: French Ligue 1 and 2

Thanks mate' date=' if he was so good, why arent other teams after him?[/quote']

To be honest, I don't know. I heard West Ham wanted him this past summer and rumors has been (in the past) saying that Marseille was after him, if I remember right. He's been injury-phrone this season, though, which perhaps have left clubs not so interested in his services. Also, previously, he was playing as a LB, where wasn't bad, but he wasn't showing any signs of a potential class player. He got lifted up to the wing position as late as prior to last season, which perhaps is the reason to why he is still left at Rennes.

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Re: French Ligue 1 and 2

I know that the financial disaster that hit us after the relegation back in 2008 was a big step backwards into our economy. We practically sold out our whole starting XI. Coulibaly' date='Carriere, Belhadj, Lacourt and Monterrubio were all actually performers of that horrendous seasons, but still (now we go back to me critizising Martel), they were sold for a lower fee than what they were worth. I understand Monterrubio and Carriere could go for a cheaper fee depsite beeing one of the best players that season, as they were getting on in age. However, Coulibaly, Bisevac Lacourt were sold for underprices. Lacourt had showed that it isn't hard to make through the academy and actually take a place in the starting XI over a player such as Sablé, who was underperforming. Coulibaly is now a part of one of the most hard-working defences in France and I dare I say it, in Europe as well. That defence has lead Auxerre to CL. Still, they were sold for underprices. We all know by now that Bisevac is one of the best defenders in Ligue 1 now...

I don't want to say that the solely sales of Coulibaly, Lacourt and Bisevac would single-handedly secure Lens' economy, but what I'm trying to sell that ones we had those quality players, why didn't we sell them for a higher-price than what they are worth in order to see our finances in a better shape? I need to say that we sold Seydou Keita the previous year for a much lesser fee than what he is worth, as well. If we would havesold our players for a higher price or altinatively, for their true values, then we would have stand a higher chance of actually not beeing blocked from transfering and actually have a better economy. Now, as we only have low-budget players and non-Ligue 1 players that nobody else but lower Ligue 2 teams, who can't offer a decent amount of cash for them, our economy suffers even more. The fact that we got robbed by Chelsea on a player [i']who could have been[/i] ''the saviour of our economy'' (Kakuta), is also a big aspect in this whole situation. I hope we can hang on Thorgan Hazard now and hopefully, he'll develop into a quality player just as his brother.

Sabo, Monsoreau, N'Daw, Coutadeur and Cuvillier are all players who are out favour/given limited playing-time (or in Coutadeur's case, injury-phrone), these players are the players we should try to bring in, as they could max be worth around €2-3 million or so (per player, that is). I'm sure that Galtier at Saint-Etienne wants to get rid of N'Daw, for instance, at any costs (just look how drastically his playing-time has dipped). Cuvillier is just on loan at Nancy from Boulogne, and if Boulogne misses out on promotion, they might want to think about selling as he is way to good for Ligue 2 and they could cash in on him. He is also a player who is good on the wing, which only could benefit us, as the attack is just not good enough.

Two things you don't notice here:

1. When a club gets relegated and is going to play Ligue 2 with a team that was planned to play in CL, it is forced to sell its starting XI. That makes the prices lower, particularly as the players were only good for getting relegated their most recent season (despite of having made themselves name before that). Easy as that: it was a forced discount sale, because the team just can't keep the players, but must sell them away; the interest to these players was low, none of them was sold to a big, wealthy club that could afford paying high prices, no doubt Martel didn't just decide to sell them to Dijon, Sion and Valenciennes, there just were no better bids than those.

This is economics, again. Things just don't work so that Martel could go and "sell with higher price" if he can't keep the players and there are no better bids for them. In fact, in many cases Lens would have had to give the player for free if nobody was going to pay for him. In fact, if I recall correctly, Carrière was released for free and he signed for Dijon because there were no better takers despite of him moving for free.

If Lens had not accepted the bids that were actually made, it wouldn't have meant "making better economy by selling with higher prices", but a worse economy because of continuing to pay salaries that the club couldn't afford any more.

2. Lens can't buy anyone, so it doesn't matter who's on market or how low is the price. Another thing is that Nancy has an option of buying Cuvillier at the end of the loan.

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Re: French Ligue 1 and 2

2. Lens can't buy anyone' date=' so it doesn't matter who's on market or how low is the price. Another thing is that Nancy has an option of buying Cuvillier at the end of the loan.[/quote']

Then it strucks me weird that Martel decided to spend €3 million on a Brazilian who can't seem to score, Eduardo, right after our promotion back to Ligue 1. I understand that we had without a doubt the biggest sponsor incomes, the biggest gate receipts and the biggest broadcasting rights, but still, I'm practically sure those generates a bigger income in Ligue 1 than in Ligue 2, no matter how big you are as a club in Ligue 2. So, why could we spend so much moneys on one single player one year after the finanical crizis of Lens broke out and when we played a whole season with a lower generated income than what we have now in Ligue 1...? Why can't we do some signings now (they don't have to be as highly valued as Eduardo) when we have a better income...?

Perhaps not on topic, but this is another aspect on why I want Lens to be sold to another investor;

Also, I found it incredibly weird that Martel halfways through the 07/08 season managed to sign Remy on a loan for the reminder of the season, which might not be bad, as he was/is a major talent. However, the fact that he and Lyon had an agreement of signing him for €8 million if Lens didn't end up getting relegated is seen by me as a stupid negotiation by Martel and co.

First of all, I need to say that if we wouldn't have gotten relegated, Remy would have been one of our biggest signings (from the moneys point-of-view) in modern history. Second of all, how would we manage to afford him when we wouldn't reach Europe the upcoming season and we also had been losing in the Intertoto Cup earlier that season. Perhaps we might have had the moneys to afford him, though, but what we needed was rebuilded as all of those signings in the summer of 2007 were all just flops. No matter how happy I was that summer, it is true. Maybe it wasn't the players fault that we had a nightmare of a season, but it's likely, as Roux, the coach who wanted many of those 2007 signings to the club, couldn't even make them into a competitive team (and he is a respected coach. *cough Auxerre cough*), which Jean-Pierre Papin also failed to do for the record.

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Re: French Ligue 1 and 2

MUST COMMENT: Lazlo Boloni has been appointed as the new coach of Lens.

I am thrilled with this, as he has been making a name of himself in Ligue 1 previously. I still recall his time at Rennes, where he signed a certain Petr Cech for a low cost, slussed up Gourcuff to the A-squad and actually made Rennes into a strong competetor for the European places. They did finish 4th one season and qualified themselves to the UEFA Cup, as well. It wasn't just at Rennes he had a good eye for talents and had success. At Sporting, he managed to bring their latest League trophy and also bringing in the Portuguese Cup, meaning he took the double with Sporting in his first year in charge there. Do I have to mention that he was the one gave Hugo Viana, Cristiano Ronaldo and Quaresma a chance to prove themselves and also gave them enough opportunties so they could count themselves as regulars...?

I hope Boloni do give certain Lens B players chances to prove themselves. We've Kondogbia and Hazard that have huge potentials, for instance. I do not expect them to perhaps get chances directly (this season), but perhaps the next season we might see them playing next to Runje and co. Also, as Boloni has proved that he has a good eye for talent, I hope he can sign some Ligue 2 players on the cheap this winter in order to make Lens a more competeable team and Lens could drag themselves away from the relegation battle. With Boloni not scared of giving unknown players chances, I hope this is the end of some players who doesn't deserve to play in Ligue 1 to finally not be given minutes. I'm talking about players such as Chelle, Ramos, Doumeng and Eduardo. Hopefully Boloni wil do what Wallemme should have done a long time ago - drop those four players that I mentioned - and give players from our own academy a shot (Kondogbia, Situ, Coeff and Aurier, for instance) or altinatively, sign some cheaper players from Ligue 2 by using his contacts.

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Re: French Ligue 1 and 2

Then it strucks me weird that Martel decided to spend €3 million on a Brazilian who can't seem to score' date=' Eduardo, right after our promotion back to Ligue 1. I understand that we had without a doubt the biggest sponsor incomes, the biggest gate receipts and the biggest broadcasting rights, but still, I'm practically sure those generates a bigger income in Ligue 1 than in Ligue 2, no matter how big you are as a club in Ligue 2. So, why could we spend so much moneys on [i']one single player[/i] one year after the finanical crizis of Lens broke out and when we played a whole season with a lower generated income than what we have now in Ligue 1...? Why can't we do some signings now (they don't have to be as highly valued as Eduardo) when we have a better income...?

This seemed not like I thought it happened, or how it could have happened, so I checked it out, and yes: Eduardo moved to Lens in the end of his contract and thus for free. I noticed that in some sources, mainly in English wikipedia, it is told that he cost 3 million, but when you look at the source it doesn't say so. You can check it here:

http://www.rclensois.fr/a3426-qui-nouvelle-recrue-lensoise.html

Free of contract, free of charge. Lens had huge financial problems so it indeed would have been strange to buy a Ligue 2 forward for €3M, particularly a one who's out of contract.

Another thing is that despite of Eduardo not being particularly impressive scorer in Ligue 2 he score a lot in French Cup, notably twice against Rennes in the final, and was wanted by many clubs more impressive than Lens. So, to get a player with that background for free must have seemed like a good deal back then. Another thing is that he was liked person in Guingamp and he also kept his word and went to Lens who were in talks with him before the Frenc Cup final, despite of many other clubs getting interested in him after him winning the Cup for Guingamp. This shows good personality and while searching for the transfer fee (0€), I saw how Martel praised this exactly. And why wouldn't he, it is nice to get a player who is trustworthy and loyal and doesn't change his mind when someone comes with a bigger check. So, all in all, even if Eduardo in fact has not been too good recruitment, he seemed to be one back then. Funny, when checking this, I stumbled on some old comments on this news line, in which the fans of Lens were excited about getting Eduardo.

I'm not sure if this has been fixed already, but I recall Lens is one of teams that suffered from not getting the money out of players they had. Like Keita. I don't know if Sevilla has paid them by now, but still during last season there were news about them not getting the money from Sevilla and Portsmouth for their players. If these deals have been completed correctly, then Lens shouldn't be in such a deep trouble, but if not, then that's one particular problem. This is not exactly Lens' own fault either.

Oh, here it is:

http://www.footmercato.net/le-rc-lens-attend-toujours-d-etre-paye-pour-seydou-keita_54774

So, at least still this september Lens had received nothing for Keita and went to court for that. I don't care to search for how the Portsmouth deals ended up going.

As for what it comes to your wish to get rid of Martel, I try to explain this once more: who is buying? There are no buyers for Lens, you can't just choose a new rich arab owner, he must exist too and must have his own interest towards Lens. But for well known reasons there are none. You may wish for it, but it is just not realistic. If Martel walked away with his 85% what would there be after it? Just a poorer club.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Re: French Ligue 1 and 2

Well, appearantly, Bordeaux (finally) have the moneys to buy Gameiro from Bordeaux. The owners of Bordeaux, M6, who are a wealthy French TV channel, have managed to finance a € 12 million bid for Gameiro, which has appearently been accepted by Lorient. With this, Valencia are therefore out of the picture in the race of Gameiro's signature. Bordeaux has now given an ultimateum to Gameiro: You (Gameiro) has to agree terms with ut before the big game on sunday against l'OM'' - President of Bordeaux, Triaud. It's been reported that Gameiro is unsure about moving to Bordeaux, hence the ultimateum.

If this is true, then I do not why Gameiro isn't thrilled about moving to Bordeaux. We all know they are a bigger club than Lorient, we all know they have better players than Lorient and perhaps the most important point in this issue, Bordeaux has a bigger ambition than Lorient. If Gameiro would come to Bordeaux, then he'd be a starting player for sure. He is better than Modeste, who is the only decent striker Bordeaux have, in my opinion. Bordeaux have always had Gameiro as their first target for the attacking-part, as they had him as the first option to replace Chamakh (but as always, the moneys started to talk :rolleyes:). I'm sure that Gameiro is well aware of the fact that if he joined Bordeaux, he'd take a starting-place. It's got to be something else in the picture (to why he is so unsure about joining Bordeaux).

Perhaps it's the fact the downhill spiral Bordeaux have had ever since the depature of their three key-mans - Gourcuff, Chamakh and Blanc. It's go to be something related to that, but what he doesn't get is that if he'd join Bordeaux, then I'm sure Bordeaux's attack would find some constinency and start to deliver more. Remember that Bordeaux and Tigana wanted Gameiro so badly this summer and that he was their first option, which only can tell of how much importancy a move for Gameiro to Bordeaux could be. I'm sure Tigana could organize the attack better, as he wants to work with Gameiro. Not to mention that the team Bordeaux could do with some more quality players, who have already showed that they are of good quality (which Gameiro has showed during his time at Lorient, for sure). Hopefully Gameiro could realize this and not stay at Lorient. I mean, this years Bordeaux is the worst Bordeaux team we've seen in ages, but still, they're on a higher place than Lorient. If only Gameiro would sign on, I'm convinced the attack would be raised with a couple of levels in terms of effectiviness. I'm not trying to say that Bordeaux would raise themselves automatically by a few levels just beacuse Gameiro would sign for them, but I'm sure he'd at least bring in some must needed individual qualties into this team!

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Well' date=' appearantly, Bordeaux (finally) have the moneys to buy Gameiro from Bordeaux. The owners of Bordeaux, M6, who are a wealthy French TV channel, have managed to finance a € 12 million bid for Gameiro, which has appearently been accepted by Lorient. With this, Valencia are therefore out of the picture in the race of Gameiro's signature. Bordeaux has now given an ultimateum to Gameiro: You (Gameiro) has to agree terms with ut before the big game on sunday against l'OM'' - President of Bordeaux, Triaud. It's been reported that Gameiro is unsure about moving to Bordeaux, hence the ultimateum.

If this is true, then I do not why Gameiro isn't thrilled about moving to Bordeaux. We all know they are a bigger club than Lorient, we all know they have better players than Lorient and perhaps the most important point in this issue, Bordeaux has a bigger ambition than Lorient. If Gameiro would come to Bordeaux, then he'd be a starting player for sure. He is better than Modeste, who is the only decent striker Bordeaux have, in my opinion. Bordeaux have always had Gameiro as their first target for the attacking-part, as they had him as the first option to replace Chamakh (but as always, the moneys started to talk :rolleyes:). I'm sure that Gameiro is well aware of the fact that if he joined Bordeaux, he'd take a starting-place. It's got to be something else in the picture (to why he is so unsure about joining Bordeaux).

Perhaps it's the fact the downhill spiral Bordeaux have had ever since the depature of their three key-mans - Gourcuff, Chamakh and Blanc. It's go to be something related to that, but what he doesn't get is that if he'd join Bordeaux, then I'm sure Bordeaux's attack would find some constinency and start to deliver more. Remember that Bordeaux and Tigana wanted Gameiro so badly this summer and that he was their first option, which only can tell of how much importancy a move for Gameiro to Bordeaux could be. I'm sure Tigana could organize the attack better, as he wants to work with Gameiro. Not to mention that the team Bordeaux could do with some more quality players, who have already showed that they are of good quality (which Gameiro has showed during his time at Lorient, for sure). Hopefully Gameiro could realize this and not stay at Lorient. I mean, this years Bordeaux is the worst Bordeaux team we've seen in ages, but still, they're on a higher place than Lorient. If only Gameiro would sign on, I'm convinced the attack would be raised with a couple of levels in terms of effectiviness. I'm not trying to say that Bordeaux would raise themselves automatically by a few levels just beacuse Gameiro would sign for them, but I'm sure he'd at least bring in some must needed individual qualties into this team![/quote']

I think Gameiro joining Bordeaux is inevitable now. Tigana wants him, the Bordeaux owners are okay with paying for him, the fans surely would love to have him at Bordeaux, Lorient want to cash in on him (now that he's fallen out with the manager and has expressed his desire to leave), and Valencia, the only contenders, aren't going to make the move. All that's needed now is a yes from Gameiro himself.

Apart from being a boost for Bordeaux, I think this is a boost for Gameiro as well, something that has been often overshadowed by all the talk over Bordeaux. Gameiro has been stuck (and I do choose my words carefully) at Lorient for a while now, and although his newly formed partnership with Kitambala this season has somewhat brought a resurgence to his performances, he has still to show Ligue 1 the boundaries of his capabilities. I'm sure a move to a bigger club like Bordeaux would be greatly beneficial to his improvement. If he hits peak form, it could get him recognized more by Blanc, as well.

Tactically, it will be interesting to find out how Tigana will utilize Gameiro. Kévin has nearly always played alongside another forward (Kitambala as of late, and Vahirua in previous seasons) in a 4-4-2. At Bordeaux, Tigana has often deployed Modeste as a lone striker in a 4-2-3-1. Tigana has quite a few ways to incorporate Gameiro into the squad. He can retain the formation his side has probably performed the best with but risk playing Gameiro in a role he is not quite comfortable with and boot Modeste, the only good forward for Bordeaux right now, out of the starting XI. On the contrary, he can adopt a two-striker system, like a 4-1-3-2 or the ol' diamant, but force Modeste to play in a different role from what he has been doing best in. A third option is to have Gameiro and Modeste together in a 4-3-3, with Modeste on the left wing, where he has played before, and one of the many other attacking players Tigana has (Jussie, Ben Khalfallah, Maazou, etc.). There are just so many possibilities with Gameiro now...

Edit:

Perhaps it's the fact the downhill spiral Bordeaux have had ever since the depature of their three key-mans - Gourcuff, Chamakh and Blanc.

A point worth raising is that Gameiro, despite being nearly as good (albeit much less consistent) as Chamakh was before he left Bordeaux, is far from a "new Chamakh" type of player that many Bordeaux fans probably were hoping for after the Moroccan's departure. Modeste, who's shown to be quite similar to Chamakh, is now going to struggle to get good performances with Gameiro coming in. With Plasil, who with the most assists for Bordeaux appears to be the closest thing to a playmaker right now, not being a Gourcuff-style player, this new Bordeaux has to find a whole new approach if they are to adapt and improve. They can't rely on a highly creative, attacking-minded playmaker (Gourcuff) and a towering, agile lone striker (Chamakh) to handle everything on the attack anymore. Their best offensive players will be (again, if Gameiro joins) a deeper-lying playmaker in Plasil and a less physical, more passing-oriented forward in Gameiro. So the point is, no matter how Tigana chooses to change Bordeaux's line-up when/if Gameiro joins, he will probably have to consider tweaking the team's mentality and playing style.

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Re: French Ligue 1 and 2

What I find ridiculous in this Gameiro saga, is that Valencia, a club that is struggling with its debts and unable to pay the price asked by Lorient, is somehow able to offer way bigger salary to Gameiro than Bordeaux or Lille (third club that has bidded for Gameiro), financially healthy clubs that can pay the fee.

Valencia's chairman, or someone else from the club, stated how Lorient should understand that the sum they're offering is 40% less than what Lorient is asking, and that thus there's something wrong with their asking price. Well, yeah, true if there was only one bidder, but since there are other bidders coming closer to asked price of €12M, well, the obviously Valencia should understand that there's something wrong with the bid.

Valencia is offering Gameiro a hefty annual salary of 3 million euros. Yet they can't come up with a decent bid. Suppose they gave the player €2M/year less than they offer now, they could easily pay the €12M, no? The problem is, that other Valencia's players get big fat salaries like that too, apparently. And French clubs, that are only ones forced to healthy finances, can't start paying sums like that to one player if they can't afford rising the wages of others as well.

By the way, it is interesting that Bordeaux's bid isn't directly money received from Gourcuff-deal (apparently not much of that has been transfered to Travernost's direction), but money that Travernost and fellows have decided to make available for this transfer in particular in order to take a little risk and make the team possibly way better and more attractive.

Bordeaux has also made a bid of €10M to Panathinaikos for Djibril Cissé, but Pana asks €14M. I think that in the end they will be happy to get 10 millions from a 28-year-old ex-international who plays in Greek club that doesn't play in any European Cup this season. It's not as if Bordeaux would be able to ever get that €10M back from Cissé again.

Not that I wouldn't appreciate Cissé. I think he is awesome and would do good for Bordeaux. He is fast, strong, athletic, big, has great shot good air game and pretty fancy technique too. Most of all I appreciate his spirit. Great CF who's career has been destroyed by injuries twice, and yet he has always come back. True fighter, trains enthousiastically, respects his teammates and fans. A kind of player that is useful for any team. I would warmly welcome him back to Ligue 1. Too bad OM screwed his case earlier.

Talking about restrictions and transfers:

Boukari moved to Rennes for €5M. Now Lens can start shopping, can't it? Well, not necessarily. They also have got a salary cap they can't surpass and Boukari probably didn't have huge salary. Their targets are therefore: some guy playing in Portugal, a French guy though, name of whom I've forgot, never heard of him before; some lower division player; Ziani, who would come for free. Ziani's case shows the wage problem: his current club in Germany would pay half of his wages, but still, Lens has problems to fit his salary to their budget if they don't get rid of some other players.

Roudet is likely to move to Valenciennes next summer when his contract ends. Lens tries to sell Doumeng and Chelle anywhere. Not successful right now.

In my opinion, they should selll Demont, Runje and Maoulida. And Roudet, if possible. These are probably their most heavily paid players, and also ones from whom they would get best money in transfer. Except for Maoulida, I don't see anyone paying much for him. Now that they're still in Ligue 1, it is. Exclude the youngsters, because they should build on them. Roudet should perhaps be sold now only because he'll be out of contract within 6 months. Now, or he'll move for free. He would be hard to replace, but basically Sertic can do his job. Kasraoui and Aurier have been just as good as Runje and Demont this season, so I see no advantage in keeping them´. Maoulida is useless. They would get few millions in transfers and also have more space under salary cap and thus they could go shopping for new players.

Pazz, I haven't heard of Triaud giving an ultimatum to Gameiro, despite of having followed this transfer passionately. Do you have a link?

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Re: French Ligue 1 and 2

Talking about restrictions and transfers:

Boukari moved to Rennes for €5M. Now Lens can start shopping' date=' can't it? Well, not necessarily. They also have got a salary cap they can't surpass and Boukari probably didn't have huge salary. Their targets are therefore: some guy playing in Portugal, a French guy though, name of whom I've forgot, never heard of him before; some lower division player; Ziani, who would come for free. Ziani's case shows the wage problem: his current club in Germany would pay half of his wages, but still, Lens has problems to fit his salary to their budget if they don't get rid of some other players.[/quote']

As you said, I probably don't think Lens can match half the wage Ziani has at Wolfsburg. I mean, they're a team owned by Volkswagen. If they wanted to, I'd say they could easily inflated the market as much as Manchester City does.

Anyway, I agree, Lens will try to look for bargains now. I hope we don't blow all of the moneys on one player. So, now we're back to square one - I want Lens to follow Lorient's way in the transfer-area - look for bargains, that is. As I've said previously, Lorient got Bourillon for only € 1.7 million last winter, so surely there must be some bargains here and there available for that price, no? I hope we go for players such as Sabo, N'Daw, Ribas and Privat. Sabo and N'Daw aren't parts of their respective managers plans, and I expect a player like Sabo, who might have showed promises in the training-games but not been given chances in the league (nor cup), to go for a lower fee than € 1 million. I can't see a player with no routine whatsoever from neither league or cup (from the highest stage) going for a bigger than that, simple as. N'Daw might be a bit trickier to get, but seeing as Galtier clearly doesn't have him in his plans and the fact that ASSE have done relative good this year without him (and therefore want Galtier to stay in the long-term), I can see N'Daw beeing ''auctioned out'' and go for a much lower-price than what he is really worth. With these two players in our hands, our defence would be so much better. Aurier-Yahia-N'Daw-Sabo would be an awesome defence!

Ribas is my ultimate dream signing from Ligue 2, to be honest. I'd be thrilled to see him in Lens, as he is our kind of player and a player I've wished to have at Lens for such a long time. By saying ''he is our kind of player'', I'm on about the fact that he is relative fast and actually resembles a bit of Boukari. Ribas can do that extra, he is very fast, good with the ball and can operate on a flank in a 3-mens attack and also the ''tip'' of the attack. He'd definately be useful in the football we approaches - the counter-attacking one. I'm sure his creativity would benefit us, and he'd be the closest replacement to Boukari in terms of playing-style for the reasonable fee Lens would be willing to pay.

I'd also want Slovan Privat for the same reason I'd want Ribas. The guy has been doing great at Clermont on loan this season from Sochaux. The fact that the he has never been given any real opportunties at Sochaux along with the fact that if he'd return back to Sochaux he'd have to compete for starting places in their most strengthen area, where players such are Maiga, Martin and Boudebouz, for instance, all are eglieble of playing at. At Lens, he'd grab a starting spot easily, and with the fact that Sochaux aren't in the most desperate need of him, might give Lens a reasonable price to try and finance a deal for. However, for the latter two, I think we would need to sell another player to finance a deal for these two players. I hope Eduardo goes - he takes up one non-EU quote and he is doing nothing but garbage. I'm sure we'd be able of offloading him to some Spanish, Portuguese, Middle-Eastern or a Brazilian team.

Roudet is likely to move to Valenciennes next summer when his contract ends. Lens tries to sell Doumeng and Chelle anywhere. Not successful right now.

We bought him from there when he was not even close of beeing a first-teamer. Now' date=' when he is the most important player for us, he is possibly moving back. This means two things - We have becomed Valenciennes' feeder-club (they're a bigger club than us now, apparently :o) and Danic will now perhaps finally be moving away from Valenciennes.

Pazz, I haven't heard of Triaud giving an ultimatum to Gameiro, despite of having followed this transfer passionately. Do you have a link?

This article; http://www.svenskafans.com/europa/bordeaux/Bordeaux-ger-sig-inte-om-Kevin-Gameiro-387863.aspx <- In Swedish, though.

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Re: French Ligue 1 and 2

This article; http://www.svenskafans.com/europa/bordeaux/Bordeaux-ger-sig-inte-om-Kevin-Gameiro-387863.aspx <- In Swedish' date=' though.[/quote']

What's the source? This one in l'Équipe states a something that could have lead to some journalists interpret that Triaud gave Gameiro an ultimatum.

http://www.lequipe.fr/Football/breves2011/20110103_204003_triaud-gameiro-en-discussion.html

But it is already bit old news and it doesn't exactly say that Triaud has given Gameiro an ultimatum. What he says there is just that they must find the new forward before the clash against Marseille, because otherwise it serves for nothing. That doesn't mean that Travernost wouldn't still buy Triaud a new striker after l'OM clash. Nor that it wouldn't be Gameiro who moves to Bordeaux after the Marseille clash, if they'd got none before that. Only that Triaud, like Tigana, sees the match against l'OM being of huge importance for the rest of the season. Quite rightly so, it is probably a key match for both teams. Winner gets the year launched. If l'OM loses, it hasn't won for a long time in French tournaments and has to search for something to fix what's broken, namely their attack, while not being able to buy any new attackers as their current ones just joined them for this season. For Bordeaux the defeat would be slightly less dramatic, but they'd be in desperate need to win the next match to get on the right track in Ligue 1. They got a good start to this year, unlike l'OM, and they'd like to build on that and building on that means getting points from Marseille. Losing there means that they need to start anew.

Triaud, by the way, also said that he isn't sure whether it is Gameiro or Gameiro's agent who most wants to sign with Valencia. This is because it is of course the agent who has come to agreement with Valencia and because the agent gets paid according to the contract he gets for Gameiro, and Valencia pays way better than Bordeaux. Like Robinho went to ManC because his agent got him the best possible deal, except for the fact that he didn't want to go there. Gameiro of course would be happy to play in Valencia, but he isn't necessarily insisting on it as much as his agent is.

I doubt Lens being able to pay N'Daw's wage, by the way. Unless they get rid of some more expensive players.

Another Ligue 2 striker that has earlier been contacted by Lens and who would surely do good is Thil. I think it might even be likely that he'd move to Lens now that Lens has got money to buy someone. For both Ribas and Thil there's pretty surely a transfer fee of €2M or more. Particularly for Ribas who just doesn't seem to be able to stop scoring. What I fear with Ribas, is that if he plays well and attracts other clubs, he'll soon ask a move away from Lens, particularly if Lens goes to Ligue 2 at the end of the season, which is likely.

Sabo would be ideal for Lens, indeed. A loan is more probable than a transfer though.

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Re: French Ligue 1 and 2

But it is already bit old news and it doesn't exactly say that Triaud has given Gameiro an ultimatum.

Maybe the google translator couldn't do the job' date=' no? :P

Quoted part from that Swedish article; ''President Triaud ger en tidsgräns: kontraktet måste vara klart innan söndagens match mot Marseille. Annars letar Bordeaux på annat håll''. [b']In English:[/b] ''President Triaud has been given him a time-limit to put his signature on the contract, and that is before the game against Marseille on sunday. Otherwise, Bordeaux will be looking at another front (other players)''.

I personally take it as he'll leave the Gameiro deal behind him and look for other player. Cissé has already been figurating in the media, but Panathinaikos are asking moneys than what Lorient asks for Gameiro. Not that it is anything wrong with that, as Cissé is a class player, but I'd rather have Gameiro, who is young and developable.

I doubt Lens being able to pay N'Daw's wage' date=' by the way. Unless they get rid of some more expensive players.[/quote']

If he loves playing football, then he should go down in wages. The guy has barely featured for Saint-Étienne this season and if I recall right, Galtier, who hasn't been giving N'Daw any real opportunity this season, has been rewarded with a new contract, so I doubt N'Daw has a future in Loire.

Sabo would be ideal for Lens' date=' indeed. A loan is more probable than a transfer though.[/quote']

With Heinze and Taiwo beeing able of occuping the LB role successfully, I doubt Sabo can see his future in l'OM. He is class act and he is 23, so he is not exactly that young anymore and he needs consistent playing-time if he doesn't want to become lower-league player. I know Deschamps is a fan of his, as he just recently stated in an interview that ''he'd love to play Sabo, but the competition is so hard''. The fact that Sabo isn't even getting minutes in Coupe de France or the Coupe de la Ligue, means that he should actually try to look up for a new team, in my opinion. I hope Lens have noticed this bargain, as we haven't a proper LB since Belhadj.

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Re: French Ligue 1 and 2

Maybe the google translator couldn't do the job' date=' no? :P

Quoted part from that Swedish article; ''President Triaud ger en tidsgräns: kontraktet måste vara klart innan söndagens match mot Marseille. Annars letar Bordeaux på annat håll''. [b']In English:[/b] ''President Triaud has been given him a time-limit to put his signature on the contract, and that is before the game against Marseille on sunday. Otherwise, Bordeaux will be looking at another front (other players)''.

I asked for their source, not for the translation. In l'Équipe it is said something very different:

"the deal must be completed before the match against l'OM, or otherwise it serves nothing."

This implies neither that he would have given ultimatum personally to Gameiro nor that they would not actually buy a new striker (be it Gameiro or not) after 16th because it is not as if Triaud would alone decide for it. It seems like Travernost and others have more patience than Triaud.

The only news about "ultimatum" in French press were today and "the ultimatum" was "we won't wit indefinitely". This is pretty modest for an "ultimatum" but press has commonly interpreted as "if Gameiro won't sign with us [bordeaux] tonight, we'll move to other targets". Why tonight? Because Lorient plays OL tomorrow and Triaud wants Gameiro to be fit to be lined up against Marseille day after if Tigana wants so. Of course, he could sign tomorrow before the match. That would make Gourcuff père quite mad though.

The other reason given is that Gameiro now is the number one target and Bordeaux seriously wants to get a new striker during this mercato, so this episode with Gameiro must be over soon enough.

Interesting side note: though Triaud is all the time stating that Gameiro is far from signing for them, there has been talks about it being currently only a matter of transfer clause that Bordeaux isn't willing to give to Gameiro. That makes it seem like a deal that will eventually be finished in time. Of course, they won't give him just a clause that he'll be free to leave any time for any price, but a minimum fee clause surely is something of which the club and the player can come in accord with each other. Bordeaux has earlier given it to many players and it only takes from Gameiro to see that the fee must be significantly higher than what Bordeaux pays for him and we've got a deal. However, this is not heard from a reliable source, it was today in footmercato and haven't read it elsewhere except copied from there.

Cissé news seems to be a rumour, unreliable, because both Cissé and Triaud deny it. Bordeaux i also told to have made a bid for Feret, around €4-5M. Gameiro bid is between 10-12 million euros, probably closer to 12 million. Lorient needs good money from Gameiro, because they already paid 3 millions to Strasbourg when buying him and if I've understood the deal correctly, it is that for anything they'll get more than 3 millions from Gameiro, 30% goes to Strasbourg. A team that surely would have use for that money as well, but if you consider now the bid by Valencia, €7M: almost 2 millions of it would go to Strasbourg, Lorient already paid 3 millions, leaves them with 2 millions and something gained from this player that they've brought to the level where he is right now. I understand well they don't want to sell him for €7M.

Honestly: Rennes would do a better bid than Valencia, Lille would do a better bid, PSG for sure, Monaco as well. Valencia seems to want all the French players for free. Then they'll ask tens of millions for the players when it's time to sell them again. I would at least, if I was Féry, demand 30%-50% of next transfer fee. Because if Gameiro would become a big star and some Real Madrid or Manchester City would buy him from Valencia later, Lorient would probably make a nice 10-20 million euros more.

About Sabo: note that Heinze is getting old and Taiwo might still be moving next summer. I think he still doesn't have contract after this season.

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Re: French Ligue 1 and 2

Well, now that we actually continued discussion, let's put things right on this post:

That's not clearly my point - you just haven't had time to read it throught' date=' didn't you? I clearly said ''it doesn't matter where the club comes from''. You know, noticing the potential world beaters before the giants means that you have a good scouting facility - which means that on that plan, the smaller clubs can actually challenge the bigger clubs on that plan. They might not be able to challenge financial, but it's still a working plan - Herenveen did actually compete in the UEFA Cup/Europa League several times and Lorient has established themselves in the Ligue 1, for instance. [/quote']

Of course I noted that you don't care where the club comes from. The whole point is that other people do care and it is for good reason: economically it bloody does matter where the club comes from. You may say otherwise, but I just tried to explain you this simplest fact that when it comes to economy, it does matter: If a club comes from some wasted former industrial area its possibilities are more limited than if it came from a super wealthy principality at Côte d'azur or from a 10 million people city that is a international business centre.

Once again: Did you bother to read my post (correctly)?

I clearly stated that we should compete on the same scale as Lorient, not Lyon or Marseille. To do so, we only need to spend about €5-10 million, is that to much to ask? They got promoted to Ligue 1 back in 2006, spent lesser than Lens has during since then, but earned more in income. Doesn't that tell you something? Spending €3 million on Eduardo, for instance, was one of the worst deals I've ever witnessed. The man can't even score in an open goal, to be honest. Why could we do that and not spend €1.7 million on Bourillon, who I'm sure we'd stand a chance to land, as he wanted to get away from the capital and PSG/Kombouare didn't want him? I understand that it requires good eyes to find some talents in the lower leagues or most importantly, manage to get them for lower fees than their true worth. We could do this in the past... pre-relegation 2008, but why can't we do it now? If we haven't spend so much moneys these recent transfer-windows, we should be able to spend a bit on these talents (or unspotted ones) emerging from Ligue 2. I hope we got to see some spendings this January-window. Like you pointed out, I'd welcome defenders, maybe a midfielders and at least 2 new strikers (Boukari is the only one who is good enough). I hope we don't loan these players and we try our luck in Ligue 2.

Well, to be honest, in posts #3206 and #3226 of this thread you said that the Lens team is good enough to get a place in European cups for the next season. Then, just few pots ago in post # 3746 you said that Lens is bigger than Monaco. Yet here you're able to perceive yourself the fact of stability of Monaco:

Yes, but when you come from a country with lower taxes than what the rest of the teams has in their country, then you are having a sort of advantage economically-speaking. Also, they are sort of sponsored by the Monaco royal-familiy, who at occasions finance them in both the transfer part and the economic part, aswell.

You don't get it - I don't demand a place out in Europe.

Well, you demanded few months ago. Lens hasn't become any smaller club since.

I am aware that it will take some time to rebuild after a relegation, but to see my beloved club playing such an horror football and actually stand on an 19th place, makes me suffer. I just want Martel to follow Lorient's example when it comes to transfering, and I'm sure we'd be fine (mid-table position). Cut these Doumeng's, Sartre's and Eduardo, who all came to Lens for a bigger price than what Amalfitano, Sigamary Diarra or Bourillon came to Lorient. Those three players that came to Lorient, are all now hailed players, buth 2/3 of those who came to Lens are back in Ligue 2 and the 3rd one is simply not good enough.

This however is not true. Eduardo and Sartre were free transfers. Here for Sartre:

http://wikiwix.com/cache/?url=http://www.rclens.fr/node/10452&title=Signature%20de%20Romain%20Sartre

Doumeng's price was € 1 million - and when signing, he seemed quite good. Sartre too, he was captain of Sedan and a proven defender in Ligue 2. And he played well in Ligue 2 for Lens as well. Only that Lens was second club with which he failed in Ligue1. Soon he might get a chance to try with third club, this time Tours, in Ligue 1.

Amalfitano - €1,2M

Diarra - €1,5M

Bourillon - €1,7M

These numbers are estimated and not exact, but it is clear than each of them costed Lorient more than Sartre, Doumeng and Eduardo all together costed to Lens. The fact is that Lens couldn't have bought Bourillon.

First of all: When did I say Lens didn't start out in Ligue 2 when Martel took over the club?

Well, you said it's BS that Lens would be in Ligue 2 without Martel. It was only when Martel came that things started turnign good.

Lyon started out in Ligue 2 when Aulas took over. They took over their respective clubs in the late 80's, but still Aulas has made a much more better job than what Martel has done. Despite a much more limited income compared to the clubs from the biggest leagues, Aulas has managed to actually pose a threat with his Lyon against them. Tv-revune, etc.

Sure. I already mentioned this in the post you quoted, though. However, try and make the difference between cities of Lyon, Marseille and Lens. If it is hard, think of it like this: was there a media buzz about "who would save Lens" prior to Martel's takeover? Were big names like Tapie giving their opinion on it? No. For OL there was. Guess why? It does matter where the club comes from. Why Martel invested in Lens? Because he is from Pas-de-Calais. Like Lens' has a big stadium because of one rather wealthy local. But that's what there is, no more. No bigger or richer men. No fortune in Pas-de-calais. No one is making Lens big and wealthy, they've got nothing but tight budget and big stadium (the latter keeping them alive, the former being caused by the fact that the club isn't interesting for investors and the clubs can't get indebted in France).

I actually took a look at this and what did I find... Lens a traditional Ligue 1 powerhouse? This writers traditions apparently don't go further than to beginning of this millennium.

EDIT: Also' date=' Diabate and another player started to kick on Runje's back in pure frustration, which I said in my previous post. You are not a good reader.[/quote']

I didn't see happening and quite strangely no one else has talked about it in press or anywhere (this should have been a huge scandal if it happened), so I find it reasonable to doubt your word on this.

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