Ribery

[milosevic 11]

Does Frank Ribery really deserve a 93????

Obviousley he has been playing well and is the best player for a medioke team in the french league, which in all fairness apart from Lyon, is not a very strong league, and even Drogba looked good in that league.

I think ribery is a fantastic prospect, but no where near the standard of messi and fabregas who are rated lower. i dont think ribery has done enough to deserve a rating of 93.

I dont see how C. Ronaldo and ribery are rated the same, as Ronaldo has been constantly this season UTD's best player this season, and played well in the last couple of seasons in the best leaguein the world. Ronaldo also is his country's best player at 21 years of age.

I think ribery only had an good world cup, nothing special. so i dont see how he can be consideredon the same level as ronaldo. unless ronaldo gets put up a rating or two. (Hint)

Ayn thoughts?????

[milessurrey 326]

no he doesnt a 92 at the most for Ribery

[socratys 66]

a 91 would be slightly generous..

[milessurrey 326]

a 92 is a better rating for him considering his World Cup was incredible.

[If Only Delia Had Millions 21]

I agree a 92 would be more justified, i just cant see Ribery up with the like of Ronaldo, Joaquin and Simao.

[Keith Fitz 4,507]

Re: Ribery

I was shocked to see Ribery move up to 95,SM often talk about the importnace of playing Champions League football,(Ribery doesn't) I thought he was doing well at 94!! God if he deserves 95,Joe Cole deserves 96!! 94 is very high 95 for Ribery is astonishing at this moment..

[Ibracadabra 143]

Re: Ribery

well 92 no way 93 is well desverd hes an great player who plays regulary for his club and international next season hes going to play CL too and we all know how good hes is e.g. vs crappy englad he took the **** alot of times.

[Keith Fitz 4,507]

Re: Ribery

well 92 no way 93 is well desverd hes an great player who plays regulary for his club and international next season hes going to play CL too and we all know how good hes is e.g. vs crappy englad he took the **** alot of times.

But he's 95 now!!

[Ibracadabra 143]

Re: Ribery

But he's 95 now!!

well i think he deserves a 94 atleast because he plays immense for both international and league and next season hes goiing to show his brill in the CL.

[Doru 971]

Re: Ribery

If he deserve 95 then Torres is 97

But let's see Diego , Toni and VdVaart rating , they are just 94 but they deserve 95 too.

There's something wrong with his rating

[Mark 13]

Re: Ribery

I find that theres alot more disagreement of late about the choices of SM and us. Not sure but it seems that half the choices they make are disagreed with by quiet alot of people.

I was more than surprised to see a 95 rating for him. Joe cole does deserve 96 anyway with the way hes playing mate

[YANKER 84]

Re: Ribery

I made the Joe Cole argument a little bit ago in a thread showing the stats of the wingers above him and how his stats are better in every single catedgory this season.

Also, his rating change bothers me b/c SM said that no CL was the divider between 94 and 95, and was the reason why Toni didn't go to 95. Doesn't make much sense to me, a striker who is playing better than a winger in his team can't have the same rating b/c of a requirement that the winger can't reach either. It's very stupid.

[Mark 13]

Re: Ribery

if what you are saying is true, i have no idea that it is i saw nothing on it but it makes me stand by my previous statement all the more

"I find that theres alot more disagreement of late about the choices of SM and us. Not sure but it seems that half the choices they make are disagreed with by quiet alot of people."

I only have him in one of my teams and i can honestly tell you that if cole doesnt get at least 95 theres something wrong and its a joke. Should it carry on this way bendtner will be the next 99 based solely on tonights performance hahahhahahhahahahhahahha im sickined he played badly i have him in my fav team and i thought he might get an increase....i was flickin between this and both matches but every time i saw him touch a ball i had to change the channel and i freaked out roaring at the tv when he turned defender... the family were lookin at me cause they knew i didnt mind much about the score cause im a hammers fan haha

[YANKER 84]

Re: Ribery

Bendtner stopped, I think Fabregas's, shot off the Liverpool goal line. That was the best moment of the game by far and he deserves the MOM award for that display.

[frapechi 20]

Re: Ribery

Ribery is quite deserving of his 95. But on Bayen Munchen so is Luca Toni the both of them should be 95. The problem is everybody here is comparing him to Joe Cole. Yet they probably don't watch the German League week in and week out. Add to the fact that yes I do agree that Joe Cole should go up to 94.

1: Ribery plays on France

France >>>>>>>>>>England. The english just aren't cutting internationally wise right now. But I'm confident an English side will win Champions League....you never know though.

2: Ribery plays for Bayern Munchen

Bayern Munchen should be in Champions League everybody knows it. Yes I know they aren't but if you look at their team on paper they should be in it and they will be in 100% for sure next season and will at least get to the quarter finals. I personally believe they will get to the semi finals, but you never know what teams like Barcelona, Milan, Juventus, Inter, ManU, Chelsea, Arsenal and Real Madrid will do in the off season. Assuming all the teams were the same Bayern Munchen would easily be in the semi final and probably the final.

one of the main reasons for this. RIBERY. All I can say is thank you Manchester United for him. You guys bought Hargreaves from Bayern for the same price they bought Ribery.

Simply put he has been amazing this year and deserves the 95 rating. Truly. The only thing that was holding him back was being in Champions league. That's where I questioned his raise to 95. I thought he deserved the raise but knew he wouldn't get it because SM said they wouldn't give anybody on Munchen a rating over 94 cause they weren't in Champions League. So to me it seemed weird for him to get a 95 rating that he deserves when we were basically told he wasn't going to get it. So the big question for me was why now? and why not Luca Toni?

But yeah

Ribery = 95

Luca Toni = 95

Joe Cole = 94

[YANKER 84]

Re: Ribery

No offense man, but Ribery has really been on and off this season. Not to mention he only plays in the German League, where his stats have been worse than Cole's, which says quite a bit b/c of how much better the EPL is than the Bundesliga. Also, Bayern's ride through the Uefa Cup has been less than smooth. A home tie to Bolton, whhich is set for relegation in the EPL mind you, and an away loss to Anderlecht of all clubs are not good resutls. I think Getafe will give them a run for their money, and if Bayern do get through, which they are expected to, I think the biggest match of the tournament will be Bayern vs. Fiorentina or even better Bayern vs. PSV. PSV has alot of European experience, which I think Bayern lacks a bit of now b/c their team is so new and they are still gelling. Cole has been better than Ribery this season. He has consistently performed at a high level in a hard league.

[frapechi 20]

Re: Ribery

All teams loose games. Thats ridiculous to say that oh look Bayern a bad result against Bolton. Look at Chelsea they lost to a second division team in the FA cup. A cup that is taken VERY seriously in England. ManU lost to Portsmouth. ManU Lost to BOLTON. ManU lost to Man City. ManU Lost to West Ham. Liverpool lost to Reading. My point is big teams loose games as well against weaker teams all the time.

There is not much difference between the Ribery and Cole in terms of just looking at their stats. Ribery has 9 goals in 34 appearances. Cole has 7 from what I can tell. I'm not saying Joe Cole isn't good he deserves a 94 for sure. But he is nowhere near the same level as Franck Ribery. Ribery is pure class. Ask any manager in the league who they would rather have and everyone would say Ribery. he has done amazing for club and COUNTRY. You just can't compare the two cause they play in different leagues. And you can't use the argument Joe Cole plays in england so he is automatically better. if that was the case then no German league player should be rated above a 91.

Just to add one more thing.

There is a reason why most German players stay in Germany and that is because it is a top class league.

If Joe Cole wasn't English and played in Italy or Spain nobody would be arguing that he was better then Ribery. I don't know where you are from I'm assuming you're American because of your name. But there are others on here that are really proud to be English and want their players ranked high. I have no problem with this, there are some Canadian players that I personally feel should be higher not like 90 rated or anything but higher then what they are. Just like I'm sure its the same for you with some of the Americans. The problem is there isn't a lot of French forumers to defend their players or guys or girls from Germany to defend their league. I'm assuming in America like in Canada the English Premiere League is the most watched or at least the most shown. So obviously North Americans share a little more bias towards the English league as well. But if you talk to most people who really watch the German League and not just highlights and not just score lines and looking up the stats but the entire matches then you would agree that Ribery deserves a 95. (Sorry if you do watch all the games, in that case we will just have to agree to disagree on this situation) But as I said in my first post.

Ribery = 95

Luca Toni = 95

Joe Cole = 94

and you can add to that list

Van der Vaart = 95

Diego = 95

Lucio = 95

So as you can see I feel there are some underrated players and I wasn't happy with Ribery getting a 95, but not because he doesn't deserve it. I just personally feel so does Toni, VDV, Diego and Lucio.

[YANKER 84]

Re: Ribery

I'm sorry but the German league is a lot worse than the top three especially the english. It's surely not your fault, nor is it anyones. Also, Bayern have lost many more games to lower opposition in an already lower league than the likes of Chelsea and Man Utd. For instance, in the EPL they are on round 32, while they are only on round 26 in the Bundesliga. That's a difference of 6 games. If Bayern manage full points in all those games, they will be sitting on 72 points. That's 4 behind United and just 1 ahead of Chelsea. Now, what you have to remember is, is that hey have not yet accomplished this feat and that they are in a lower league, meanwhile you are comparing them with some of the best teams. So it seems that a team that can't even manage to keep up on points in a lower league than with teams in better leagues, their players should not b rated as high. I am not even talking about Ribery specifically. Even Diego could look at a drop b/c of Werder's slump. And a decrease of one for Van der Vaart is definitely not out of the question in the slightest.

Edit: Also, Germans generally stay in their league b/c they are not good enough to move to England, and command a higher price relative to better players from other regions. Also, they don't move to Spain or Italy b/c I think they aren't as well suited for the game. They play a bit more of a rough English game.

Double Edit: Lastly, you compared Man. Utd losing some domestic games, while I initially criticized Bayern's European performances. That kind of makes your reaction a moot point, but nevertheless, you are digging yourself a hole b/c Man. Utd's European performances have been excellent. They have won all their games except tying Lyon and Roma away. Once again, they performed better than Bayern against stronger opposition.

[frapechi 20]

Re: Ribery

Edit: Also' date=' Germans generally stay in their league b/c they are not good enough to move to England, and command a higher price relative to better players from other regions. Also, they don't move to Spain or Italy b/c I think they aren't as well suited for the game. They play a bit more of a rough English game.[/quote']

Lol at that.

sorry but where is England stand internationally... oh yeah thats right.

Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Netherlands, Brazil, Argentina, Portugal>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>England

german players don't leave germany because they don't need to.

Bayern Munchen has 4 Champions League titles most recently in 2001.

manchester United = 2 most recently 1999.

Chelsea = 0

Arsenal = 0

Liverpool = 5 most recently 2005

so England is so amazing. I'm only bringing this up cause you are basically saying the german league is the worst league in the world and doesn't even deserve your time. My point is Bayern Munchen is one of the worlds greatest teams in the World. I guarantee ManU plays in the German league do they win it. Probably but thats because they are an amazing team I'm not taking anything away from the english league. you keep trying to imply that I am

All I am saying is

Ribery>Joe Cole so i you want Ribery to be a 94 then Joe Cole should be a 93 and the only thing you have done is tear down the german league. Not a good argument. Especially when Bayern Munchen has 2x the amount of Champions League titles then Manchester United, Arsenal, and Chelsea have combined (those being the top 3 team currently in the EPL) So to say the german league is **** is comical and I know now you truly aren't to sure what you are talking about. So I'm not to worried about this. Cause I know as do many other people know that the German league is not ****.

Notice i never claimed it to be better then the English, Spanish, and Italian. I'm just saying the German league is a legit league and is not way worse then the English. Hence the above stats.

[YANKER 84]

Re: Ribery

You can't compare international teams b/c the argument is that the EPL is better than the Bundesliga, not that the English national team is better than the German national team. 35% I think maybe even a bit less of the EPL is English. They get all the best players b/c they have the most money. Also, what good is it to compare history. I'm not comparing how the teams and leagues were then but how they are now. Once again, it doesn't help by saying that a German or English team won the European cup some 80 odd years ago. Even 10 years ago, things have changed so much since then. Imagine that 10 years ago Wenger was really just starting out at Arsenal. Seems like ages ago. Since that time teams and leagues for that matter have risen and fallen. And as it stands NOW, b/c we are talking about now afterall, the EPL is much better than the Bundesliga, and it shows by the fact that we had 3 teams in the Semis of the Champions league last year and now 4 teams in the quarters.

Off topic a bit, and in no way does this have anything to do with my argument so don't get defensive about this, It's kind of like a joke. Who did Man Utd. beat in the 1999 Finals???

Also, you have to switch all your arrows around and everything b/c you are saying that England is better than all those teams, not worse, as it stands now.

Edit: Here is the thread I made about Cole just a little bit ago with all of the correct stats. As it was 10 days ago or so when I did it, his stats were in fact better than Ribery's, in all categories. http://forum.soccermanager.com/showthread.php?t=21377

[Andrew Seary 42]

Re: Ribery

Frank RIBERY is a world class player and should be 95 but i must agree Joe COLE should be around 94 but COLE is not better than RIBERY plus the PREM RATING CHANGES ARE JUST ROUND THE CONNER so well see what happens then.

And this stuff about players not getting over 94 if they dont play in the CL its a load of Rubbish

[frapechi 20]

Re: Ribery

cheers for the greater than or less than signs I always get those mixed up.

Basically how I see it though is you are making two arguments

1: The English League is the best league in the world.

2: The German League is MUCH Worse then the English league.

I agree with your first statement I have never tried to claim that the English league is worse then the German league cause it isn't. It is strongly in the top 3. Cant say its the undisputed number one cause all three top leagues (English, Spanish, Italian) all bring different aspects.

So all I have to do is convince you that the German league isn't MUCH Worse then the English league. Then i win the argument that Ribery deserves a 95 and Joe Cole. To make it a bit clearer:

Because you believe the English league is far superior then the German league you believe Ribery should have stayed at the same rating and not go up to a 95. So if i convince you that the league is just SLIGHTLY worse it changes your ratings through inflation of the league becoming better thus making the players better. Thus making Ribery worthy of his 95.

So here I go

1: Remember not trying to convince you the two leagues are equal or the German league is better just slightly worst.

2: History is important whether the two of us would like to admit it. But you can't help but look at it cause it helps us understand the future. So here are the historic facts.

The English League has 10 wins and 4 runners up

The German League has 6 wins and 7 runners up

If you look at teams that are currently competing in their league top divisions the stats look as follows

The English League has 8 wins and 3 runners up

The German League has 6 wins and 6 runners up

Bayern Munchen and Liverpool have both been awarded the UEFA Badge of Honour and along with 3 other teams the right to keep it permanently.

3: FC Schalke 04 are still in the Champions League and only lost to Barcelona 1-0. Teams such as AC Milan, Real Madrid, Lyon are not.

4: Both leagues have all their players playing domestically with the exception of one for both clubs.

England's being David Beckham

Germany's being Michael Ballack

so with all their players basically playing their respective league it only makes sense that England being the superior league should have a better international team because their players play in the better league. But they don't.

5: If you take out Arsenal most of the teams are majority English or at the very least from the UK. Yet have very few players playing internationally compared to Germany. Minus their respective local players.

6: I don't really see what else i have to do you can tell me and I will respond.

[YANKER 84]

Re: Ribery

What does history have to do with anything. It's like arguing that fat Ronaldo is the best player in the world b/c he had a great world cup in 1998 or 2002. Right now he's bad, so German teams might have been good relative to other top teams in Europe 10, 15, 20, 50 years ago, but that doesn't mean they are as competitive now.

Also, your information is wrong the Premiership is approximately 35% English that means that 65% are foreign players, obviously lol. As a result, national teams are in no way related to the strength of a league when you look at the EPL. Other factors can be taken into consideration to, b/c clearly the English National Team is full of stars , but they can't play well together for one reason or another. Bad mentality, egos or a million other things can be the cause of their underwhelming displays.

Hey, check this out, I'm watching Bayer Leverkusen, which is 4th in the league right now lose to Zenit St. Petersburg 4-1 at home, and they are only 70 minutes in. What's more, the Russian League is much worse than the Bundesliga, so it just shows you the strength of the league really. Bad premiership teams can take on the top Bundesliga teams away, and Russian teams can overtake decent German teams away. What more is there to argue about.

[Guest melbguy1]

Re: Ribery

How can a team full of the 'stars' of the best league in the world by far not qualify for a continental tournament?

Why can't they play together?

As for the ratings dependant of which leagues the players come from, I think is wrong. I think it's just convenient to base it on the UEFA stuff because the EPL is leading now, when they don't for a bit I wouldn't be surprised if that rule got scrapped.

I think it would be way more fairer if the 'favoured' group of teams were based on the top 6 teams from the EPL, La Liga, Serie A - top 5 teams from Bundersliga - top 4 teams from France ect. Because currently players like Podolski, Toni, Klose along with the rest already named ect don't get a fair rating imo.

I think it's dangerous to bundle entire leagues based on 1,2 or 3 results.

EDIT: Then again, all these arguements would cease if SM just told us how they rate the players.

[Doru 971]

Re: Ribery

Another goal for Toni today in UEFA Cup but he remained at 94 this is stupid