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Re: Ribery

Yanker this is getting a bit off topic. The main point is Franck Ribery deserves a 95. But so do other players in the Bundesliga. I will quote myself on this.

"Bayern Munchen will finish no worse then the quarter finals in the 2008/2009 Champions League."

The Premiere League is not the best league in the world. First of all there are so many things wrong with it. Two of the major ones being the dominance of the big four clubs and the widening gap between the premiership clubs and the lower league clubs. That is something you don't find in other league there is much more evenness throughout the other leagues. In case you don't understand the second criticism it's a pretty simple concept.

Since The the Premierships split with the Football League, the established clubs in the Premier League have managed to distance themselves from their counterparts in lower leagues. Owing in large part to the disparity in revenue from television rights between the leagues, many of the newly promoted teams have found it difficult to avoid relegation in their first season in the Premier League. In every season except 2001–02 (Blackburn, Bolton, and Fulham) at least one Premier League newcomer has been relegated back to the Football League. In 1997–98 all three promoted clubs were relegated at the end of the season. The Premier League distributes a small portion of its television revenue to clubs that are relegated from the league in the form of "parachute payments". Starting with the 2006–07 season, these payments are in the amount of £6.5 million over the club's first two seasons in lower leagues. It is Designed to help teams adjust to the loss of television revenues (the average Premier League team receives £45 million while the average Football League Championship club receives £1 million), these payments actually widen the gap between teams that have reached the Premiership and those that have not, leading to the common occurrence of teams "bouncing back" soon after their relegation.

This is a major problem in the English League. You take out the Big Four clubs and the English League is nothing. All the other clubs would struggle to win The French, German, Italian, Spanish and even the Dutch league. Not doubt does the top four kick ***, but thats only 4 of the 20 teams in the top league and we aren't doing a "who has the better top teams" it's a "who has the better disparity in the league" No question, the German League has the best disparity.

The other major criticism a lot of people feel about the EPL is the dominance of the big four. Personally I don't have too big a problem with this because most leagues have their dominant teams. Italy has AC Milan, Inter Milan, Juventus. France has Lyon. Germany has Bayern Munchen. Holland has PSV and sometimes Ajax. Spain has Real Madrid and Barcelona. But the main difference is this:

In the past 12 seasons only three different clubs have won the Premier League title: Manchester United (7), Arsenal (3) and Chelsea (2). Blackburn are the only other team to have won the title in the Premier League's history. In addition, Manchester United have not finished outside the top three since the formation of the Premier League, with Arsenal finishing inside the top five in all but two seasons, while Liverpool without an English league title since the Pre Premier League era, have not finished lower than fifth since 1999. The Big Four clubs have all qualified for the last four seasons of the Champions League and receive the benefits of such qualification. The benefits include increased revenue and this is believed to have widened the gap between the Big Four clubs and the rest of the Premiership.

Franck Ribery = 95

Joe Cole = 94

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Guest melbguy1

Re: Ribery

haha.. oooooo.. i like you frapechi, exactly what the forum needs, some balanced views. Although it's never going to change the minds of any forumer here, they'll just come back with some random hate stuff... Stuff like Portsmouth will beat Juventus any day... I have a whole list of them :)

I'll add also that the EPL would be possibly the most technically inferior league out of the big 4.

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Re: Ribery

haha.. oooooo.. i like you frapechi' date=' exactly what the forum needs, some balanced views. Although it's never going to change the minds of any forumer here, they'll just come back with some random hate stuff... Stuff like Portsmouth will beat Juventus any day... I have a whole list of them :)

I'll add also that the EPL would be possibly the most technically inferior league out of the big 4.[/quote']

You think that people are all haters but in a way you are too. I've noticed all you do in threads is rant about how cool the Italian League is. The Italian League is awesome, and is a bundle of fun to watch. It's a great league with great teams, but now only 1 Italian team remains in the UCL and they look bound to be eliminated. There are many great leagues in Europe, all with famous players. You also love to mention how people underestimate Juventus. I think it's safe to say anybody with a sane mind knows Portsmouth don't stand a chance against Juve. Lets just get back to the topic. This isn't about Juve VS Portsmouth, it's about Franck Ribery and the German League. Diego, VDV and Toni I believe also deserve a 95 in this case anyway

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Guest melbguy1

Re: Ribery

You think that people are all haters but in a way you are too. I've noticed all you do in threads is rant about how cool the Italian League is. The Italian League is awesome' date=' and is a bundle of fun to watch. It's a great league with great teams, but now only 1 Italian team remains in the UCL and they look bound to be eliminated. There are many great leagues in Europe, all with famous players. You also love to mention how people underestimate Juventus. I think it's safe to say anybody with a sane mind knows Portsmouth don't stand a chance against Juve. Lets just get back to the topic. This isn't about Juve VS Portsmouth, it's about Franck Ribery and the German League. Diego, VDV and Toni I believe also deserve a 95 in this case anyway[/quote']

I don't think I've ever said Juve is a good team, you'll see, through my posts, that I rank them about 5-6th in the Italian league. I say that SM underestimate their main players though... for sure.

The Italian league is a great league with great teams, and depending on what style of soccer you like it is great to watch. Generally speaking those comments are made when the entire forum just knocks the Italian league.

So yes, getting back on topic, those players you mention should be the rating you mentioned, but they aren't because SM views that league as way inferior to the EPL.

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Re: Ribery

I don't think I've ever said Juve is a good team' date=' you'll see, through my posts, that I rank them about 5-6th in the Italian league. I say that SM underestimate their main players though... for sure.

The Italian league is a great league with great teams, and depending on what style of soccer you like it is great to watch. Generally speaking those comments are made when the entire forum just knocks the Italian league.

So yes, getting back on topic, those players you mention should be the rating you mentioned, but they aren't because SM views that league as way inferior to the EPL.[/quote']

I personally like the Italian League because all the players play with their hearts on their sleeves. They always run for every ball, and it's pretty to watch. Back on topic :D I think it's safe to say Bayern will be in the CL next year and that could provide a boost for Toni to reach 95

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Re: Ribery

Funny thing about this thread is that there is even a comparison between the english league and the german one....because if you have any logical reasoning at all you know its england (im not english).

Disparity? sure one top team that is a mile ahead of the rest instead of top four and then yes after that you get a more level playing field because they dont have teams good enough to make it less level...bad league simple as that

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Re: Ribery

Fripachi (sorry if I got the name wrong) you are proving my point in more ways than you realize. We have even witnessed today how German teams are not very strong losing to Russian opposition and tying a Spanish team. This shows that there is much less disparity in Germany b/c none have a lot of money and are all **** in general (well not exactly, but I'm in a big rush right now). Meanwhile, in the EPL billionares are buying out many teams and even lower division teams like QPR and now Derby and are investing hugely in the teams. This allows them to buy up the best talent from around the world rather than remaining predominantly english. TV revenue for even the lowest teams is much higher than the revenue for their counterparts or even mid-table or better teams in all the other leagues around the world. I really would write more, maybe tomorrow, but I simply don't have the time right now, I have massive amounts of work, sorry.

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Re: Ribery

Funny thing about this thread is that there is even a comparison between the english league and the german one....because if you have any logical reasoning at all you know its england (im not english).

Disparity? sure one top team that is a mile ahead of the rest instead of top four and then yes after that you get a more level playing field because they dont have teams good enough to make it less level...bad league simple as that

The funny thing about your comment is that you missed the point of my comments by a mile. I have never once stated the German League is better then the English' date=' Italian, or Spanish. Not once.

I will repeat myself cause it seems people just don't get my comments.

[b']"I have never once stated the German League is better then the English, Italian, or Spanish. Not once."[/b]

And yes its better to have one top team then four and if you don't know why then you might want to take a simple economics course. Or did you just skim my posts and not read it fully cause I just can't believe how someone can say that.

If the English league has 4 good clubs that are always taking up the 4 Champions League spots then they get ALL THE MONEY.

If the German league has 1 Elite team and they only take 1 of the spot of the Champions League spots that leaves more money for other teams.

This makes the other teams better.

Here it is again

"I have never once stated the German League is better then the English, Italian, or Spanish. Not once."

Cause I figured you might need to read it three times to get it.

What I'm stating is basically the German league is good enough to have 95 rated players. And most people agree with that cause that has nothing to do with the English rating system. It has no effect on the EPL.

Somebody made a comment if Franck Ribery is a 95 then Joe Cole should be a 96. Their reason for this was that Joe Cole plays in the EPL. That's their only reason. I have yet to hear any other reasons. Other then he is having a good season. No stats have been giving to me. Nothing. I simply said Joe Cole should be a 94, a raise of 2 from his current 92 rating.

Yanker and now I'm assuming you, Mark, feel that the German League is ****. But the problem is other then just stating your belief you haven't given any reason for it. Nor have you given me any facts proving the German League is **** and that the English league is the greatest thing to grace this world. And until somebody does nobody will take anybody arguing the your side seriously

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Re: Ribery

Frapechi you are blind. The EPL had three teams in the Champions league semis last year and now it has 4 in the quarters. Also, I did post stats for you about Joe Cole, Ribery, and other wingers, which clearly showed that Cole has the best stats this season and he is accomplishing it in the world's best league. EPL teams have much more money than other leagues. Here's a list of the top 20 clubs by revenue according to 2007:

Rank Club Revenue

(€ million) Country

1. Real Madrid 351.8

2. Manchester Utd 315.4

3. Barcelona 291.1

4. Chelsea 284.4

5. Arsenal 264.2

6. AC Milan 227.7

7. Bayern Munich 223.7

8. Liverpool 202.1

9. Inter 195.4

10. Roma 157.7

11. Tottenham 153.6

12. Juventus 145.5

13. Lyon 141.5

14. Newcastle 129.4

15. Hamburg 121.3

16. Schalke 04 114.5

17. Celtic 111.8

18. Valencia 107.8

19. Marseille 99.7

20. Werder Bremen 97.0

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Guest melbguy1

Re: Ribery

Frapechi you are blind. The EPL had three teams in the Champions league semis last year and now it has 4 in the quarters. Also' date=' I did post stats for you about Joe Cole, Ribery, and other wingers, which clearly showed that Cole has the best stats this season and he is accomplishing it in the world's best league. EPL teams have much more money than other leagues. Here's a list of the top 20 clubs by revenue according to 2007:

Rank Club Revenue

(€ million) Country

1. Real Madrid 351.8

2. Manchester Utd 315.4

3. Barcelona 291.1

4. Chelsea 284.4

5. Arsenal 264.2

6. AC Milan 227.7

7. Bayern Munich 223.7

8. Liverpool 202.1

9. Inter 195.4

10. Roma 157.7

11. Tottenham 153.6

12. Juventus 145.5

13. Lyon 141.5

14. Newcastle 129.4

15. Hamburg 121.3

16. Schalke 04 114.5

17. Celtic 111.8

18. Valencia 107.8

19. Marseille 99.7

20. Werder Bremen 97.0[/quote']

I think you didn't understand what he was trying to say and the thread steered him into a debate which he was never on about. As told to me the last time I tried to bring up these types of money lists, there's alot of creative accounting involved.

Also according to Delloits last Global football report, Premier League clubs generated the highest revenue (£1.4 billion) and operating profitability (£138m) in Europe in 2005/06. They lead over second placed Italian Serie A clubs (total revenue of £1.0 billion). The other ‘big five’ leagues are in Germany (£0.8 billion), Spain (£0.8 billion) and France (£0.6 billion).

So according to you, SM should rank the leagues like:

  • EPL
  • Serie A
  • Germany/Spain
  • France ?

I understand what your trying to say, but I'll say that the Italian and German leagues don't fill their lower ranked teams with imports because they don't have too. The coaches are generally great and the tactics used a world class, so they can use the local players and train them up. I'll say that the vast majority of imports to the lower ranked teams in the EPL are useless...absolutely useless. Rather the few imports used in the lower ranked italian and german leagues actually raise the qualty of the squad. Also important to note, not all the superstars in the Serie A were bought as superstars, they became superstars within the Serie A system.

I guess the above paragraph also ecplains a little why the English national team is useless and both the Italian and German teams are quality and produce results pretty much most tournaments they are in.

I think one of the point trying to be made is, if your beloved C.Ronaldo for whateva reason moves to Bayern, should he get a decrease of 2 -3 or whateva, even though he performs great week in week out for both club and country.

My point is, why is SM confusing us by making Ribery a 95, because by doing that they have opened up a can of worms, i.e Toni..

And why not just tell us how they rank players, why is it such a huge secret?

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Re: Ribery

And why not just tell us how they rank players' date=' why is it such a huge secret?[/quote']

I forgot who it was, but someone asked SM about it and they said that the cutoff was 94 if you weren't in the Champions League. Apparently, it doesn't work this way , and it's a shame b/c Toni more than deserves his 95, while Ribery's ranking is quite iffy...

BTW, I agree with most of what you're saying. In fact, that is the reason why we are not comparing national teams, but rather leagues. Still, I think that the EPL buys foreign b/c English players are more expensive and unless they are one of the superstars they are the same ore worse than their foreign and cheaper counterparts.

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Re: Ribery

Well Yanker, I want you to know that is what I have been saying all along.

Why did Ribery get a 95 and not Luca Toni? and not other Bayern Munchen or German League players.

That is what I'm trying to figure out. I would have not questioned Ribery's raise if Luca Toni got one and maybe Diego or somebody else got one.

I was and it seems now that so were you under the impression that Bayern Munchen would not have gotten any 95's because they were not in Champions League. So I was shocked when he got one.

Not because I didn't feel he DESERVED IT, but because I was told no player competing in Champions League would get over a 94.

Ribery is not playing in Champions League.

So my original remark was Ribery deserves a 95, whether or not he is playing in Champions League. But so does

Luca Toni

Lucio

Van der Vaart

Diego

and Joe Cole deserves a 94.

Yanker at the end of the day we might not agree on everything and I'm done trying to convince you that the Bundelisa is not **** and you didn't convince me that it isn't or that the EPL is the undisputed number one league.

So we will just have to agree to disagree. And leave it at that.

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Re: Ribery

Well, that's the disagreement, that in fact none of those players deserve 95s b/c they only play in the German League which is not good enough. I would not argue that Toni deserves a 95, but he is the only one right now. Things change constantly as I have been saying and if other players can become as dominant as him than they too should deserve a higher ranking. As it stands though, Diego, VDV, Ribery etc... just are not up to snuff. I mean look how long Huntelaar had to keep bagging in a goal per game in the crappy Eredivisie to get a 92, while Ronaldo doing the same in the premiership gets the reward of a 98. Joe Cole should be a point above Ribery, no not a 96, but I think he should have 94 and Ribery 93. Also, 93s for VDV and Diego who have not carried their teams as well as earlier this season or last.

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Re: Ribery

Well' date=' that's the disagreement, that in fact none of those players deserve 95s b/c they only play in the German League which is not good enough. I would not argue that Toni deserves a 95, but he is the only one right now. Things change constantly as I have been saying and if other players can become as dominant as him than they too should deserve a higher ranking. As it stands though, Diego, VDV, Ribery etc... just are not up to snuff. I mean look how long Huntelaar had to keep bagging in a goal per game in the crappy Eredivisie to get a 92, while Ronaldo doing the same in the premiership gets the reward of a 98. Joe Cole should be a point above Ribery, no not a 96, but I think he should have 94 and Ribery 93. [b']Also, 93s for VDV and Diego who have not carried their teams as well as earlier this season or last[/b].

U don't know what ur are saying there. Diego has been in sensational form this season and and has got about 10 goals if I am right and he most certainly deserves 95:rolleyes:

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Re: Ribery

I would have Toni at 95 on current form if possible, but otherwise, Diego and VDV would need to prove themselves at least at the Uefa cup for higher than 94. And I would drop them to 93 now b/c, even you have to admit, that they are not playing as well as they were earlier. The performances have dropped in a league that's not that great, that's all.

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Re: Ribery

I would have Toni at 95 on current form if possible' date=' but otherwise, Diego and VDV would need to prove themselves at least at the Uefa cup for higher than 94. And I would drop them to 93 now b/c, even you have to admit, that they are not playing as well as they were earlier. The performances have dropped in a league that's not that great, that's all.[/quote']

Let me also remind u that Diego played in the CL where as Bayern have not and yet Ribery goes to 95

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Guest melbguy1

Re: Ribery

Let me also remind u that Diego played in the CL where as Bayern have not and yet Ribery goes to 95

Thanks for reminding us what the thread (well the new one anyway) is all about.:rolleyes:

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  • 2 months later...

Re: Ribery

Ribery is worth 95.

how Wayne Rooney is worth 96 i don't know. Carlos Tevez is better then him and is only 94' date=' not to mention Torres on 95. he is the most over rated player. you english like to rate your players high don't you.[/quote']

Whilst i'd be inclined to agree with you that Rooney is over-rated (and i'm English), SM is generally based on stats and the fact is that Rooney has been first choice for his club and country for a number of years. A club which is the best in Europe.

Yes Torres for me is a better player but up until last year had never even played champions league, and Liverpool are the 4th best team in England. Tevez is without doubt a world class player, but 2 years ago was playing in Brazil, then last year for a relegation threatened West Ham. So SM will take this into account.

If Torres and Tevez have good seasons next year then i expect they too will rise.

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Re: Ribery

I think most of the German league are under-rated.

Ribery is a class player and would cruise the English Premier League if he ever came here, he deffinetly deserves 95 rating.

But like i say most of the otheres from top German teams are under-scored. Many have pointed out Diego and Toni but in my opinion most of Werder Bremens attacking players should go up, they play brilliant stylish football and have all scored loads of goals.

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Re: Ribery

I think most of the German league are under-rated.

Ribery is a class player and would cruise the English Premier League if he ever came here' date=' he deffinetly deserves 95 rating.

But like i say most of the otheres from top German teams are under-scored. Many have pointed out Diego and Toni but in my opinion most of Werder Bremens attacking players should go up, they play brilliant stylish football and have all scored loads of goals.[/quote']

Please use the search tool as i am sure there is already many threads about these players ok;)

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Re: Ribery

Looking through this topic I thought I would post my own opinion.

There are a lot class players out there who deserve to be 95+, but aren't due to not playing in the CL. Ribery and Toni are, or were 2 of them.

Everyone has been saying how Bayern Munich are good enough to reach the CL Semis, well this is quite obviosuly not true. They got hammered by a Zenit team in the UEFA Cup semi-finals.

Tbh Bayern Munich are heavily over-rated. I do agree that if they were in the CL, or Ribery played for a 'better' team then he should be 95. But Bayern aren't in the CL, and nor is Ribery, so he shouldn't be 95. Another over-rated player.

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