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Guide to the 2009 Brazilian season


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Individual Player Posts: Transferred to Europe: -- - Kleber Atletico Paranaense: 77 - Manoel 81 - Wallyson Botafogo: 81 - Simoes de Oliveira Corinthians: 80 - Boquita 86 - Elias Coritiba:

Re: Guide to the 2009 Brazilian season RE: VAGNER LOVE (from a conversation that was started on the Thiago Neves thread HERE) I 100% absolutely disagree that he will drop just because he returne

Re: Guide to the 2009 Brazilian season Yesterday's matches Porto 0 x 1 Sport Recife - Campeonato Pernambucano The two leaders in the Pernambucano faced, and it was yet another victory for Sport Rec

Re: Guide to the 2009 Brazilian season

Last update: March 6

KLEBER

0000015921.jpg

Name: Kleber Laude Pinheiro

Position: CF

D0B: May 2' date=' 1990 (18 years old)

Height: 187 cm

Weight: 79 kg

Kleber is a young centre forward who is starting to make his name at Atletico MG, where the search for a striker is under way. From a young age, he has always been a good bet to make it big. In fact, TRAFFIC have bought a part of his rights; that's always a good sign that a player might be good.

Last year, Kleber joined Lajos Detari, Jurgen Klinsmann, Dennis Bergkamp, Andrei Shevchenko and David Beckham as Player of the Tournament in the famous TuS Ennepetal. Atletico's juniors also won the Terborg tournament in Holland. In fact, the very first game was a showdown between two hot young players: Kleber and Luuk de Jong.

Atletico's success in Europe is why their teams was expected to do well in the Copa Sao Paulo Juniors. That didn't happen, but Kleber was still called up.

It took him a few weeks before coming on as a sub against Rio Branco on Feb 21. He impressed enough to get the not as a starter in the next game, where they beat Uberlandia 4-0. Today, he has started again against Démocrata, where he was subbed out in the second half.

Kleber is a hot prospect who might just slip into the Mineiro regulars this season. He's just 18, so he has a lot of time, but he's definatly one to watch.

[i']*Note: If there is already a detailed post about Kleber, please send me a PM so I can give proper recognition.[/i]

1 year loan deal at Maritimo, Portugal.

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Re: Guide to the 2009 Brazilian season

^^^

Do you think he'll succeed in Europe?

I know the portuguese league is the most like the Brazilian of all the Euro leagues (bar Holland maybe) but does he have the attributes to suceed here' date=' and maybe go further?[/quote']

I think it's a great move. He wasn't gonna go anywhere for Atletico with Eder Luis and Diego Tardelli settled in; so Portugal is a great option. Maritimo arn't a top team, but arn't bad either. They are also known for development (Tonel, Pepe and Danny all kicked off their careers there) and speak Portuguese.

I'm hoping there's a Portugal expect who will keep an eye out for him.

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Re: Guide to the 2009 Brazilian season

I think it's a great move. He wasn't gonna go anywhere for Atletico with Eder Luis and Diego Tardelli settled in; so Portugal is a great option. Maritimo arn't a top team' date=' but arn't bad either. They are also known for development (Tonel, Pepe and Danny all kicked off their careers there) and speak Portuguese.

I'm hoping there's a Portugal expect who will keep an eye out for him.[/quote']

might keep an eye on the stats sites to see how he's getting on, although this doesn't always tell the full story obviously.

Do you have the Guardian Newspaper one in the UK? is a decent enough tool for game-time etc. if you don't it's here

Click a country from the right hand side, then the club in the league table, then the squad stats tab, and you get the lowdown, may be useful for you for the leagues you're not so familiar with :)

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Re: Guide to the 2009 Brazilian season

might keep an eye on the stats sites to see how he's getting on' date=' although this doesn't always tell the full story obviously.

Do you have the Guardian Newspaper one in the UK? is a decent enough tool for game-time etc. if you don't it's here

Click a country from the right hand side, then the club in the league table, then the squad stats tab, and you get the lowdown, may be useful for you for the leagues you're not so familiar with :)

I know of it. I never just go by stats sites though. I'd much rather watch myself or read a report from someone who watched.

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Re: Guide to the 2009 Brazilian season

I know of it. I never just go by stats sites though. I'd much rather watch myself or read a report from someone who watched.

Me neither, I prefer trying to watch games to judge a players potential and/or ability, but sometimes the leagues are that sparsely covered that sites like this are all I can go by.

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Re: Guide to the 2009 Brazilian season

RE: VAGNER LOVE

(from a conversation that was started on the Thiago Neves thread HERE)

Didnt know Vagner Love left CSKA. I have him for my Valencia' date=' [b']would it be a good idea to swap him for someone else?[/b]
yes for sure will drop from 92:)

I 100% absolutely disagree that he will drop just because he returned to Palmeiras. Why on earth should he drop from 92? What are the arguments supporting your position that "he for sure will drop" ?

Players don't magically lose their ability during the plane ride over the Atlantic. It's the same absurd argument that someone made HERE about Keirrison suddenly becoming an 87-current-ability player just because he was moving leagues (despite being set for a rise to 89 if he would have stayed in Brazil).

(1)
The Russian ratings were just 2 months ago.
Vagner Love
kept his 92 then and he's done nothing adverse @ CSKA since those ratings to suggest that his rating should drop.

(2)
The stated reason by CSKA for his sudden return on loan to
Palmeiras
was that "Urgent family problems demanded his presence at home in Brazil". Who knows what that means.... but the suggestion is that it's only going to be a temporary situation.

Vagner Love himself said' date=' "I am very grateful to the CSKA administration for understanding my situation. I do have family problems that require my permanent presence in Brazil. I’ll be happy to return to CSKA next year. So I am not saying ‘good bye’, I am saying ‘see you soon’."

Sounds pretty temporary to me... but again, who knows...

[b'](3)
[/b]
The guy has scored 95 goals in 115 matches for CSKA. He was again the leagues leading scorer in '09. Of the 5 times that CSKA have won the Russian league, 4 of them have come since Vagner Love joined them.

So far this year Vagner Love hasn't had the greatest of years but part of that is due to a consistent niggling injury, but IMO a bigger part of it is due to
Zico's
consistent wacky line-ups. 20 matches played and 20 different line-ups. The guy is a menace for any CSKA supporter...
;)
He's even used Vagner Love in midfield a few times. Again if Vagner Love and CSKA were going to lose rating points it would have happened 2 months ago when the Russian ratings were done.

(4)
Now just say the question was "I bought Vagner Love thinking he might rise to 93. Do you think he has a chance to rise now that he moved back to
Palmeiras on loan?"

To that I would say that he isn't going to rise to 93 playing in Brazil. I can't think of any 90+ player that rose like that (except maybe
Galletti
90>91) after making the move to a lesser league. Furthermore I'm not even sure how much less of a league Brazil is compared to Russia (#6 in Europe immediately after the Bundesliga).

Bottom line: IMO, I don't think a drop is even remotely in the cards for Vagner Love just because he crossed the Atlantic and went back to Brazil.

  • If you are going to buy him or you already own him and your assumption is that he's going to rise from 92, you might want to look elsewhere (e.g. Lisandro)
  • But if you want a 92-rated FWD that is going to maintain his rating, Vagner Love is going to be a solid choice, even despite the temporary loan move back to Palmeiras.

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Re: Guide to the 2009 Brazilian season

how many players in Brazil are 92 answer me that can u giv me a name of 1.:D

just my opinion dont get angry m8:D

For starters' date=' I'm not even remotely angry... I just want to see your reasoning behind your opinion.

Currently there is 1 player in Brazil rated a 92..... 36-year old [b']Rogerio Ceni[/b]. (He probably won't be 92 for long though..... see HERE) He's pretty remarkable. Went to 92 spending his entire career in Brazil with only a dozen or so NT call-ups.

If your sole argument is that he's going to drop just because Brazil basically tops out at an 89-rating, then your argument is completely flawed. There are a number of 90+ rated players who move to lesser leagues who maintain their ratings.

Turkey basically tops out at an 89-rating, but Roberto Carlos went there with a 92-rating and maintained it for years.

Greece basically tops out at an 89-rating, but Galletti went there with a 90 and actually went to 91 there.

Those are just 2 examples off the top of my head...

Just because 90+ rated players move to a lesser league doesn't mean that their rating is going to drop.

Your argument is the equivalent of this :

You, Kieran Smith, are going to school @ Harvard. You a have a certain intellectual ability. Then for whatever reason you decide to transfer to a university that is closer to home... say Doncaster College.

You are suggesting that just because you are changing schools that your intellectual ability has to drop. Nonsense...!

You aren't going to lose you're intellectual ability just because you moved to a lesser (but stable in its quality) school. Your intellectual ability is what it is.

Now while at Doncaster College if you choose to continually party with transvestites (e.g.
Ronaldo
) and/or you lose sight of why you are going to school (e.g
Thiago Neves
) then maybe your intellectual ability will lessen.

But your ability isn't going to negatively change just because you changed environments. It might be more difficult to increase that ability at the lesser school, but it doesn't mean that it's going to drop.

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Re: Guide to the 2009 Brazilian season

For starters' date=' I'm not even remotely angry... I just want to see your reasoning behind your opinion.

Currently there is 1 player in Brazil rated a 92..... 36-year old [b']Rogerio Ceni[/b]. (He probably won't be 92 for long though..... see HERE) He's pretty remarkable. Went to 92 spending his entire career in Brazil with only a dozen or so NT call-ups.

If your sole argument is that he's going to drop just because Brazil basically tops out at an 89-rating, then your argument is completely flawed. There are a number of 90+ rated players who move to lesser leagues who maintain their ratings.

Turkey basically tops out at an 89-rating, but Roberto Carlos went there with a 92-rating and maintained it for years.

Greece basically tops out at an 89-rating, but Galletti went there with a 90 and actually went to 91 there.

Those are just 2 examples off the top of my head...

Just because 90+ rated players move to a lesser league doesn't mean that their rating is going to drop.

Your argument is the equivalent of this :

You, Kieran Smith, are going to school @ Harvard. You a have a certain intellectual ability. Then for whatever reason you decide to transfer to a university that is closer to home... say Doncaster College.

You are suggesting that just because you are changing schools that your intellectual ability has to drop. Nonsense...!

You aren't going to lose you're intellectual ability just because you moved to a lesser school. Your intellectual ability is what it is.

Now while at Doncaster College if you choose to continually party with transvestites (e.g.
Ronaldo
) and/or you lose sight of why you are going to school (e.g
Thiago Neves
) then maybe your intellectual ability will lessen.

But your ability isn't going to negatively change just because you changed environments. It might be more difficult to increase that ability at the lesser school, but it doesn't mean that it's going to drop.

you dont need to right an essay about it and i didnt say hed go below 90 i said that he will drop thats all for going to Brazil. cos they dont have any 92's bar 1 rogerio ceni but as you said he will drop.:D

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Re: Guide to the 2009 Brazilian season

you dont need to right an essay about it and i didnt say hed go below 90 i said that he will drop thats all for going to Brazil. cos they dont have any 92's bar 1 rogerio ceni but as you said he will drop.:D

(1) I never suggested that you said "he'd go below 90". You said he would drop. I want to know why you say he'll drop ? What's your reasoning behind your opinion ?

You have an opinion here...or at least you provided it above. I just want to see if you had any sound reasoning behind your statement that he "for sure will drop from 92".

I'm not coming at cha...... I just want to see if I am missing something in my analysis of Vagner Love....

(2) Please tell me that you aren't going to ludicrously compare Rogerio Ceni's possible drop from 92, to your argument that Vagner Love will lose his 92...

It's all good...

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Re: Guide to the 2009 Brazilian season

(1) I never suggested that you said "he'd go below 90". You said he would drop. I want to know why you say he'll drop ? What's your reasoning behind your opinion ?

You have an opinion here...or at least you provided it above. I just want to see if you had any sound reasoning behind your statement that he "for sure will drop from 92".

I'm not coming at cha...... I just want to see if I am missing something in my analysis of Vagner Love....

(2) Please tell me that you aren't going to ludicrously compare Rogerio Ceni's possible drop from 92' date=' to your argument that Vagner Love will lose his 92...

It's all good...[/quote']

Just leave it mate its done everyone has the right to have there own opinions.

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Re: Guide to the 2009 Brazilian season

Hey' date='

Not your stereotypical Brazilian wonderkid this one, but I've done some research and in one of my GC's I'm bidding to an unmanaged team for Gilmar of Nautico (25, 80, fwd) I'll be getting him for about 1.6m, and decided to put in the bid having seen he's scored 9 goals in 18 league appearances. Do you think the outlay will be worth it in the "buy and sell for a quick buck" sense?

And if so could someone indicate any rise he should be due (if any).

Thanking you in advance :)[/quote']

Rise to 83/84. He's good' date=' rumoured to be on his way out. I like him.[/quote']

Looks like we have to wait a bit longer for he's rise now he's moved :(

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Re: Guide to the 2009 Brazilian season

I think Vagner Love will drop because he is no longer a part of the Brazilian national setup.

That better?

It's a far stronger argument for a drop than the one that was on the table before ...

Heck, you could even make a rational argument that Vagner Love has lost ability because he's had to deal with that nutcase Zico as a manager for the past 8 months.... ;)

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Re: Guide to the 2009 Brazilian season

Any thoughts on Souza @ Vasco ? Named to the U20 WC squad. Hasn't been mentioned on the Forum at all' date=' but has played a big roll for top-of-the table Vasco.[/quote']

I havn't ever seen him, but Tom says he's been great this year, as do most Brazilian papers. Rated 76 I think?

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Re: Guide to the 2009 Brazilian season

I think Vagner Love will drop because he is no longer a part of the Brazilian national setup.

That better?

also vanger love wont have champions league football to help his raiting B);)

RE: VAGNER LOVE

It's the start of a holiday weekend here in the States' date=' so I have some extra time... Thought that I'd debate with myself here...

[b']

I think that the strongest arguments in support of a drop from 92 are (in order):[/b]

(1) Vagner Love's form @ CSKA since he was reviewed on June 29th and the overall team's continued pathetic and listless showing under out-of-his-depth Zico

(2) The lack of Champions League exposure now that he temporarily moved back to Palmeiras

(3) His lack of NT exposure

(4) That ridiculous hair

I'll take em point by point:

(1) CSKA - IMO, this is the strongest argument you can make if you are pushing for a drop.

Since he was reviewed on June 29th, the team has only clawed back two positions in the table (they now sit 4th). It's still ahead of where they were in the standings a year ago this time, but anybody who watches CSKA will tell you that it's very disappointing, especially considering how bad Zenit have looked all year.

Since that review 2 months ago, Vagner Love has 5 starts, 1 late sub appearance, 1 goal, 1 red card, he continues to be hampered by a pulled calf muscle, and the delusional Zico has even played him and others on the team out of their natural positions.

(2) Champions League

I think it's an issue, but then again...He's the guy who put them into the CL for this year. As of a week ago he was a CL player and one of the two biggest reasons (Akinfeev being the other) that CSKA are representin'. I can't see SM taking him down (if he's reviewed with Palmeiras in the coming weeks) just because he's not going to participate in the CL this fall.

Additionally for those players that SM does take down in ratings because they are no longer playing Champions League football, they usually wait to see how the team progresses the following year, before hacking off points. Again, Vagner Love was a CL player 7 DAYS AGO...

(3) Seleção

The last time Vagner Love went up in rating to 92 he was part of the NT set-up. That was fall of '07. Not only hasn't he featured for them since, but he hasn't even been on the squad.

However,
(A)
he hasn't been part of the NT set-up for almost 2 years so why is this an issue now and more importantly
(
B)
of the 18 Brazilians that are currently rated 92-or above, ONLY 9 OF THEM are in the recent NT set-ups (I left Ronaldinho out).

A fair argument back to that point would be something like..."Yeah but of those 9 that are left out:

  • 5 play Champions League

  • 1 plays Europa League

  • 1 is sun-setting in Asia (Juninho)

  • 2 play in Brazil, one of them being Vagner Love

"Furthermore of those 4 that aren't playing CL futbol, Vagner Love is the only player under 34 years old."

My only response to that would be see point # 2

(4) The Foolish Hair

For me, it's right up there with Cisse's. Just wanna slap the guy for having it...let alone taking a point of his rating... But what do I know... NOTHIN'...after all he's the one hanging out w Brazilian pohnstars.
;)

Again, from my case here and in prior posts on him, I think his 92 is safe. There's not going to be a rise while in Brazil, but I don't see him dropping. And I certainly don't see him dropping in the forthcoming Brazilian review as another Forumer has suggested.

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