Jump to content

Will Arsenal fans finally listen? :)


Neller
 Share

Recommended Posts

Well for months (maybe years :eek: ) quite a few Arsenal fans have been banging on about how Wenger has bucket loads of cash to spend but refuses to do so.

Other fans have tried to get through to the Arsenal fans saying they dont think money is available as Wenger would surely sign some players and would not just carry on trying to make money for the club like he does.

Today the Arshavin transfer is about to collapse due to Arsenal only offering half the players contract :eek: and not matching the price tag due to "lack of funds"

So.. will this finally open peoples eyes to just how good a job Wenger has done? (who imo is the best manager in the EPL) and hes not a stubborn idiot who refuses to buy players

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Will Arsenal fans finally listen? :)

Not all Arsenal fans are naive as you make them to be :confused: .

Anyway, I have the utmost respect for Wenger and believe in him like many Arsenal fans, I think the main issue is that fans want the good old days back, ASAP at any cost.

However, it is understandable why Arsenal fans do question Wenger and the apparent "lack of funds".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Will Arsenal fans finally listen? :)

Not all Arsenal fans are naive as you make them to be :confused: .

Anyway' date=' I have the utmost respect for Wenger and believe in him like many Arsenal fans, I think the main issue is that fans want the good old days back, ASAP at any cost.

However, it is understandable why Arsenal fans do question Wenger and the apparent "lack of funds".[/quote']

yeah because by Arsenal fans I ment every single one :rolleyes: and I do not agree at all that its understanable that fans question / doubt Wenger.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Will Arsenal fans finally listen? :)

yeah because by Arsenal fans I ment every single one :rolleyes: and I do not agree at all that its understanable that fans question / doubt Wenger.

Make it more clear next time:rolleyes: .

Fans have a right to question anyone, as much as I personally love and hail Wenger as a legend, one should be able to question anyone who acts on behalf of their beloved club.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Will Arsenal fans finally listen? :)

Personally i think he has done a bleeding fantastic job. As much as people want success in football it is not all about the performances on the pitch that shape the future of a football club. As well as being a fantastic manager, and having an amazing ability to nuture young talents he is also a very good businessman. Arsenal do not have the same amount of funds as other top EPL clubs, such as Manchester United, Chelsea and Liverpool, so it is astonishing that they have been able to compete with them at the top of the table for as long as they have. Arsene Wenger doesn't have unlimited funds as some people think, as this transfer deal has proven. So hopefully after this, some Arsenal fans will gain some more respect for Arsene Wenger (if that was possible, i know for me it wasn't).

Like i said, i already have a great deal of respect for me and this just proves how good a job he has done at the club. We don't have any debts (as far as i am aware) and we are in a very stable position finacially. So my hat goes off to Arsene Wenger. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Will Arsenal fans finally listen? :)

Make it more clear next time:rolleyes: .

.

it was pretty clear :rolleyes:

I dont see any any of th forum threads people always saying "only some liverpool fans" , "certain liverpool fans" etc etc they just say "liverpool fans".

I dont then take that to just mean me and others if I have not said it ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Will Arsenal fans finally listen? :)

If you had made a thread aimed specifically for Wenger and his fans/critics, no problem, but with that title and intro post it was a little bit misleading to where your opinion lay on the matter.

Gave me a little hint of anti-Arsenal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Will Arsenal fans finally listen? :)

If you had made a thread aimed specifically for Wenger and his fans/critics' date=' no problem, but with that title and intro post it was a little bit misleading to where your opinion lay on the matter.

Gave me a little hint of anti-Arsenal.[/quote']

yeah, me saying Wenger is the best manager in the EPL and what an amazing job hes done really seems anti-arsenal :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Will Arsenal fans finally listen? :)

yeah' date=' me saying Wenger is the best manager in the EPL and what an amazing job hes done really seems anti-arsenal :)[/quote']

Claiming/Questioning Arsenal fans and their so called "listening" or understanding of how the financial side of the game works isn't anti-Arsenal:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Will Arsenal fans finally listen? :)

Claiming/Questioning Arsenal fans and their so called "listening" or understanding of how the financial side of the game works isn't anti-Arsenal:)

nope, you can call it "anit-idiots" as I find people who are so against Wenger idiots.

For example today on SSN when it looked like the Arshavin transfer was going to callapse, a fan was saying "wenger should be sacked" etc etc, its a joke and there have been people on this forum saying the same thing especially a month or so ago when you was really struggling.

Same applies to other fans, few years ago Man Utd fans (and tons of them) was going nuts saying Fergie is past it should be sacked etc just because they went a few seasons without a trophy, LFC fans have done the same with Rafa.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Will Arsenal fans finally listen? :)

The Arshavin transfer isnt about to collapse due to lack of funds, the sticking point is the signing on fee apparently...

Wenger is arguably the greatest manager Arsenal have ever had. Its just that not winning anything for 3 years comes to the forefront of peoples minds - especially critics and pundits alike when actually Arsenal were 3 points off the league last season and drew lots of games in a row to throw away the points lead.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Will Arsenal fans finally listen? :)

I made a similar thread- let Wenger do his job.

Few threads below yours.

Your title is misleading.I thought this thread is against Wenger.

Wenger is best.Today's deal signifies that he prefers betterment of club rather than surrending to players demands.

Any other manager would not have compromised with his tally of honours and bought loads of players to add few more even if it meant pushing club into debts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Will Arsenal fans finally listen? :)

Well for months (maybe years :eek: ) quite a few Arsenal fans have been banging on about how Wenger has bucket loads of cash to spend but refuses to do so.

Other fans have tried to get through to the Arsenal fans saying they dont think money is available as Wenger would surely sign some players and would not just carry on trying to make money for the club like he does.

Today the Arshavin transfer is about to collapse due to Arsenal only offering half the players contract :eek: and not matching the price tag due to "lack of funds"

So.. will this finally open peoples eyes to just how good a job Wenger has done? (who imo is the best manager in the EPL) and hes not a stubborn idiot who refuses to buy players

despite their lack of funds they seem to have found enough for arshavin afterall.

they have a 60,000 seater stadium with £50 average ticket price, the income they generate from this alone would be enough to fund much more transfer activity.

when wenger has spent 'big', its gone wrong, maybe he is saving his own reputation by not having to take the risk again. maybe benitez should take a leaf from his book, save anymore robbie keanes!

top and bottom is, wenger isn't the best manager in the league, you only picked him out as an alternative to the greatest of all time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Will Arsenal fans finally listen? :)

We don't have any debts (as far as i am aware) and we are in a very stable position finacially.

thats not the case - they've got a lot of debt (around £318m net debt i think' date=' with approx. £255m on the stadium which they have 23 years to pay back so its not a huge issue @ 5.3% weighted average and around £64m or so for the property development side which has to be repaying in the next 2 years @ 6.6% weighted average), so at least none of it is purchase debt (liverpool, man united) or huge loans from their owner (chelsea).

one sticking point for them is they issued bonds a while ago to pay for the stadium that i believe are due to mature soon and the plan was to pay for that by selling the flats where highbury was, the problem with that is the drop in house prices means that many are trying to get out of buying the flats (if they bought it at the original prices they'd instantly be losing around £100k) so they may need to find other ways of paying off the issue (e.g. selling players, not spending as much on players etc) - they did say the following on this in the financial results summary:

A significant level of property sales activity is anticipated for 2008/09, with a large number of Highbury Square apartments scheduled to be completed and released for sale which is expected to result in a reduction in bank debt. Legal completions from the first phase of 65 apartments released at the end of July have so far generated sales proceeds of £18.7 million. The Group remains mindful of the current conditions in the property and mortgage markets.

so it looks like they got the amount planned for the first flats built, but the next phase(s) will be tricky

however they do make a hell of a lot in matchday revenue (around £95m for last season), although seeing as a fair amount is from the corporates they may suffer there (even man united are struggling to sell their corporate packages now, and chelsea have been advertising discounted corporate packages during games), they make a net profit on transfers (£5.2m for year ending 31 may 2008, so not including hleb, nasri etc.) and the tv deal is of course worth more, but missing out on the CL will cost them a lot

an interesting quote about transfers from the accounts:

The main contributions to the disposal profit came from the sales of Henry, Ljungberg, Reyes, Aliadiere and Diarra which I believe highlights the fact that selling players at a profit is a by-product of Arsène Wenger’s astute management of the long-term development of the playing squad rather than an objective in itself.

wouldnt say selling diarra was that astute, but if i had to give wenger one bit of advice - stop buying AM's and playing them on the flanks and buy players who will help the balance of your team

despite their lack of funds they seem to have found enough for arshavin afterall.

the arsenal group had at the beginning of june £93m cash reserves' date=' so the claim of there being cash available does seem to have some merit (assuming the board would let him spend it) so he does have the finance available to sort out problem areas in his team

top and bottom is, wenger isn't the best manager in the league, you only picked him out as an alternative to the greatest of all time.

IMO the three greatest ever mangers in british football are ferguson, paisley and shankly - dont think its fair to say one is better than the other but they all did make a very large contribution to the game and their clubs

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Will Arsenal fans finally listen? :)

There was a survey conducted recently, between SAF and AW. Only from supporters and followers not from arsenal and manchester united, and. they think AW is the better manager. I guess on trophy basis, SAF must win. But bear in mind, what miracles AW has done. we were a mid table team when he joined, from some team in japan, he has won us titles, fa cups got us to the final of the champion league, took a barca reject and made him into arguably one of the best player in the world.

In Arsene We Trust.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Will Arsenal fans finally listen? :)

despite their lack of funds they seem to have found enough for arshavin afterall.

they have a 60' date='000 seater stadium with £50 average ticket price, the income they generate from this alone would be enough to fund much more transfer activity.

when wenger has spent 'big', its gone wrong, maybe he is saving his own reputation by not having to take the risk again. maybe benitez should take a leaf from his book, save anymore robbie keanes![/quote']

Yeah.... although lets face Fergie has had the same amount of BIG money flops as Rafa (Veron / Keane), although at least we got our money back for Keane.

top and bottom is' date=' wenger isn't the best manager in the league, you only picked him out as an alternative to the greatest of all time.[/quote']

nah not really, I unlike you can give honest , unbiased opinions I have never EVER seen you not be biased in your posts.

check any poll you have voted on, ALWAYS Man Utd, you even voted Rooney as the best striker in the world.... hes amazing but lmao (BIASED)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Will Arsenal fans finally listen? :)

There was a survey conducted recently' date=' between SAF and AW. Only from supporters and followers not from arsenal and manchester united, and. they think AW is the better manager. I guess on trophy basis, SAF must win. But bear in mind, what miracles AW has done. we were a mid table team when he joined, from some team in japan, he has won us titles, fa cups got us to the final of the champion league, took a barca reject and made him into arguably one of the best player in the world.[/quote']

not discrediting wengers work but they were 6th the season before he came, he had the nucleus of a good squad (seaman, adams, keown, bergkamp, overmars, wright) who had been competitive in recent years (bar the george graham bung season) and he had a very good reputation in europe as the monaco manager prior to going to japan.

as for ferguson, man united were 4th the previous years and when he came they were a mess thanks to atkinson and he built the club up bit by bit, developed local talent (which wenger hasnt done) into top players and this propelled them to being where they are today, so what he has done at man united far exceeds wenger when you take into account ferguson's starting point, and of course the spell where he very nearly lost his job in the late 80s. so whilst wenger has a good job he should never be mentioned in the same breath as the likes of ferguson, shankly, paisley, busby etc. - they turned their clubs into the dominant club of their generation, made the clubs into what they are today, into institutions that were feared domestically and abroad and they gained support in all corners of the world (which arsenal have, but to a lesser extent) - i've been in places like new york, vancouver, toronto and LA where there has been a big man united or liverpool CL game showing in a bar and they have been packed out (bearing in mind its around 3pm on a weekday) - arsenal dont have that kind of impact, and a large part of the reason why man united and liverpool (and of course the milan teams, barca etc.) have that level of support is due to the incredible work of busby, ferguson, paisley and shankly that hasnt been matched by any other club in the UK

however, wenger deserves a lot of credit for turning arsenal from the '1-0 to the arsenal' to a very attractive brand of football but seeing as arsenal didnt have the success man united have, i find it hard to put wenger in the same class as ferguson and i feel many chose wenger as the better manager because they dislike ferguson personally and find wenger and arsenal 'less unattractive'

and if the 'barca reject' you are referring to is fabregas (cant think who else it is) you're way off as barca didnt reject him in any way and he was a very highly touted prospect, they wanted to keep him but arsenal, rightly or wrongly, signed him without barca having a say and were able to due to differences in spanish and english law. and fabregas is not anywhere close to being considered 'the best player in the world'

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Will Arsenal fans finally listen? :)

Yeah.... although lets face Fergie has had the same amount of BIG money flops as Rafa (Veron / Keane)' date=' although at least we got our money back for Keane.

nah not really, I unlike you can give honest , unbiased opinions I have never EVER seen you not be biased in your posts.

check any poll you have voted on, ALWAYS Man Utd, you even voted Rooney as the best striker in the world.... hes amazing but lmao (BIASED)[/quote']

you got less than 6 months out of keane, we got a bit more service out of veron before getting a decent price considering. sir alex has had the 1 big money flop in over 20 years of management, how long has rafa been at liverpool? how many big money moves has ferguson got right? he doesn't shy away from taking the risks and gets them right 99% of the time. oh and veron has something no liverpool player has (a premier league winners medal).

face it, after raf-rant sir alex showed him up as nothing more than an arrogant amateur, not fit to lick sir alex's boots. and the fact we could go 5 points clear so soon after your early lead is no doubt the reason behind your post about wenger.

i'll never let the impression that i'm biased get in the way of being correct, and i'd never swap rooney for torres.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Will Arsenal fans finally listen? :)

you got less than 6 months out of keane' date=' we got a bit more service out of veron before getting a decent price considering. sir alex has had the 1 big money flop in over 20 years of management[/quote']

man united lost £14m on veron - far worse than keane, at least rafa had the sense to cut his losses. as for fergie flops - nani (£17m in 2007 - may turn out to be a decent player but not worth £17m), kleberson (£6.5m in 2002), djemba-djemba (£3.5m in 2004), alan smith (£7m in 2005), poborsky (£3.5m in 1996), taibi (£4.5m in 1999), forlan (£7.5m in 2002), blomqvist (£4.4m in 1998) - all bar djemba-djemba are inflation-adjusted at least £7m in todays money

rafa's signings over £7m (todays prices):

fernando torres

xabi alonso

pepe reina

dirk kuyt

albert riera

ryan babel

javier mascherano

andrea dossena

robbie keane

peter crouch

the ones in italics are the flops, so when he spends over £7m he's had two flops - keane (who he's recouped the most money and wasnt even his idea to sign him in the first place) and dossena (who's stock is still high in italy so most of the money could be recouped), so 8 out of 10 is pretty good there and none were on the level of veron, forlan or alan smith

and transfers between £5-7m

dan agger

mohammed sissoko

martin skrtel

fernando morientes

lucas leiva

jermaine pennant

yossi benayoun

craig bellamy

luis garcia

mark gonzalez

so between £5-7m, only 3 of those 10 players can be labelled flops, and only pennant is comparable to the signing of kleberson and the broke eric djemba-djemba

i'd never swap rooney for torres.

i'm really hoping that you are in some of the same setups as me ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Will Arsenal fans finally listen? :)

First of all, do not criticise Keane as a Rafa signing. Just do not. It was not him who went for Keane and signed Keane, anyone who believes so is completely naive. Want me to explain why, just holla.

Rafa has made some silly signings I agree but these are what, gambles at players with quality just as much as Fergie has done.

Thing is, Fergie has full control over his transfer policy, Wenger and Rafa do not. Fergie has vast amounts of money to spend, Wenger and Rafa do not.

Back on topic, any Arsenal fan that doesn't appreciate Wenger or has lost faith are complete idiots. As much as I love Rafa, what I'd do for Wenger to be boss of Liverpool is outrageous, simply because I believe he is the best manager in the EPL. He has made outstanding signings; Van Persie, Fabregas, Adebayor, Nasri, Toure, Sagna, Clichy, Flamini (although moved on), Diaby, Song, Denilson.. the list goes on. This all on tuppence. In fact, if i'm not wrong I think I heard that he bought Toure, Eboue and Fabregas for £250,000 combined. Now that is outstanding, is it not?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Will Arsenal fans finally listen? :)

you got less than 6 months out of keane' date=' we got a bit more service out of veron before getting a decent price considering. sir alex has had the 1 big money flop in over 20 years of management, how long has rafa been at liverpool? how many big money moves has ferguson got right? he doesn't shy away from taking the risks and gets them right 99% of the time. oh and veron has something no liverpool player has (a premier league winners medal).

face it, after raf-rant sir alex showed him up as nothing more than an arrogant amateur, not fit to lick sir alex's boots. and the fact we could go 5 points clear so soon after your early lead is no doubt the reason behind your post about wenger.

i'll never let the impression that i'm biased get in the way of being correct, and i'd never swap rooney for torres.[/quote']

First of all were did I say Torres is better than Rooney? infact where did I even say Torres was the best in the world, you prove my point about you have a 1 track biased mind.

just because Torres plays for LFC doesnt mean I auto think hes the best in the world... unlike you with your biased views (there are other teams around the world with good football payers) :eek:

Veron might have won an EPL, Biscan, Baros, Smicer, Zenden, Troare and co won the biggest trohpy in club football for LFC, doesnt mean they was good signings.

whats even more amusing is the fact you think im having a dig at Man Utd because I really rate Wenger as a manager and think hes the best manager in the EPL, and considering I have been saying this months before Rafa even had a rant I fail to see how it was due to that (unless I can see into the future :eek: )

I was talking about Wenger being the best manager and you compare Fergie to Rafa..... hmm ok

compare your side to Arsenals, the funds both sides built there teams with and how both managers have done then you can compare the 2.

If anyone was to say Rafa had done a better job than Moyes has at Everton the FIRST thing everyone would say is "well what do you expect Moyes hasnt had the funds Rafa has, look at the difference in the teams", yet for some reason you guys dont like to use this when comparing Fergie

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Will Arsenal fans finally listen? :)

Well for months (maybe years :eek: ) quite a few Arsenal fans have been banging on about how Wenger has bucket loads of cash to spend but refuses to do so.

Other fans have tried to get through to the Arsenal fans saying they dont think money is available as Wenger would surely sign some players and would not just carry on trying to make money for the club like he does.

Today the Arshavin transfer is about to collapse due to Arsenal only offering half the players contract :eek: and not matching the price tag due to "lack of funds"

So.. will this finally open peoples eyes to just how good a job Wenger has done? (who imo is the best manager in the EPL) and hes not a stubborn idiot who refuses to buy players

As one of those Arsenal fans that respects Wenger to the upmost but remains annoyed at some of his transfer policy i believe my opinion should be counted in this debate.

We all love Wenger, hes a transfer god. In the last 5 seasons Arsenal have the most points per net cash spent (becuase of sales weve only spent around 16 million in 5 years! Chelsea have spent 300 million :P).

And please 0 god, let the Arshavin transfer collapse...the guys ridicoulously over-rated. Plus, we already have Van Persie to link the midfield and attack. Arshavin is filling a hole we dont have and dont need. Then again 15 million is not bad baring in mind how much Darren bent went for not long ago *cough* Tottenham *cough*. We shouldt pay more - well done Wenger.

However, its instances where for example David Villa (:D) . Offered himself a wage cut to come and play for us, and he would have only cost around 30 million. Take the 15 million of money thats due to be wasted on Arshavin, Sell Bentdner, sell Eboue, loan out a few players for loan fees, ask the chairman for a bit, sell Adebayour for 30 million even (Milan were offering!). And we have one of the worlds top strikers with agreeable wages....Cmon, Y not?!? :rolleyes:

2.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...