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Argentinian Analysis


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Re: Argentinian Analysis

Any chance Forlin could go to 88 ? or is 83>88 unheard of in SM.

Here are the other defenders 21 or younger that are rated 88+

  • Gonzalo Castro / Bayer Leverkusen / 21 / 90
  • Marcelo / Real Madrid / 21 / 90
  • Micah Richards / City / 20 / 89 (was 90)
  • Leo / Grêmio / 21 / 88
  • Thiago Heleno / Cruzerio / 20 / 88
  • Jonny Evans / United / 21 / 88
  • Dirk Marcellis / PSV / 21 / 88
  • Dominguez / Cruz Azul / 21 / 88

Right now I'd take him over Richards, Leo, Evans, & Thiago Heleno on that list.... (haven't seen Dominguez)

Thouhgts...? Thx in advance.

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Re: Argentinian Analysis

Any chance Forlin could go to 88 ? or is 83>88 unheard of in SM.

Here are the other defenders 21 or younger that are rated 88+

  • Gonzalo Castro / Bayer Leverkusen / 21 / 90
  • Marcelo / Real Madrid / 21 / 90
  • Micah Richards / City / 20 / 89 (was 90)
  • Leo / Grêmio / 21 / 88
  • Thiago Heleno / Cruzerio / 20 / 88
  • Jonny Evans / United / 21 / 88
  • Dirk Marcellis / PSV / 21 / 88
  • Dominguez / Cruz Azul / 21 / 88

Right now I'd take him over Richards' date=' Leo, Evans, & Thiago Heleno on that list.... (haven't seen Dominguez)

Thouhgts...? Thx in advance.[/quote']

That's an interesting way to look at it. Looking at it like that I think 88 would be a very fair rating, but no, it's not going to happen. It's not that he doesn't deserve it, because he fully does. Forlin and Battaglia have held Boca together through a disappointing Clausura campaign, and he has shown outstanding maturity beyond his years. His call up to the Argentina squad, for matches where they took full strength squads, are a sign of the belief that the natives have in him for the future. I could babble on about the lad all day, an Argentinian who defends to the standard of Forlin at such a young age is a rarity, practically unheard of infact.

Anyway, why isn't 88 going to happen. The last player I can recall who went from 83-87 was Aliev. He plays in a similarly rated league, so he is a prime example. Aliev already had several NT appearances, Champion's league experience, and previous years experience in his favour. Forlin only has a call up, and 3 appearances from previous years to his name, along with Copa Libertadores appearances, which isn't rated anywhere near as well as the Champion's League is. So why should he get the same increase Aliev did? Well, he has a 3 year advantage, and whilst this shouldn't affect a players rating, it affects the prospects and potential of the player, which then influence SM into being more generous than they would be to your everyday player. Add this to the constant transfer rumours linking him with Europe, and the hype surrounding his potentially highly successful international career, along with the fact that his performances have been extremely confident and solid, and you get a sure fire 87.

Off topic, and onto the list of yours! Dominguez got to 88 because of International appearances, coupled with being a regular for a big Mexican side. He may well see a drop to 87 this time aorund, as he isn't an NT regular, and Cruz Azul have had a torrid Clausura, although if I was forced to choose, I'd predict he would stay at 88 and get a positional change to RB.

Mark would like me to add that Heleno isn't a good buy right now, both out of favour and injured, he too is in jeopardy of that unwanted drop.

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Re: Argentinian Analysis

Anyway' date=' why isn't 88 going to happen. The last player I can recall who went from 83-87 was Aliev. He plays in a similarly rated league, so he is a prime example. Aliev already had several NT appearances, Champion's league experience, and previous years experience in his favour. Forlin only has a call up, and 3 appearances from previous years to his name, along with Copa Libertadores appearances, which isn't rated anywhere near as well as the Champion's League is. So why should he get the same increase Aliev did? Well, he has a 3 year advantage, and whilst this shouldn't affect a players rating, it affects the prospects and potential of the player, which then influence SM into being more generous than they would be to your everyday player. Add this to the constant transfer rumours linking him with Europe, and the hype surrounding his potentially highly successful international career, along with the fact that his performances have been extremely confident and solid, and you get a sure fire 87.[/quote']

Good analysis/example... Analysis like this is helpful.

That said, maybe SM blew it with Aliyev and that he should have been rated higher. In hindsight an 87 for all of Aliyev's accomplishments up to that point seems low. Especially when you put it in context to Leo and the rest of that list.

At 21yrs old and a 87-rating, Forlin would be rated equivalent to Lee Cattermole & Liuz Gustavo.

From looking at this maybe SM screwwed up the Aliyev rating, because certainly he is at a different real-life standard than Cattermole & Luiz Gustavo.

Maybe Forlin should be looked at more like Rui Patricio. Young up-and-comer, who plays for a mid-table squad and is a rock in the back and is going to own his position in the NT in a few years. Rui Patricio is 21 & 88.

Or maybe he should be compared to the other young studs in Argentina who he certainly is on par with :

  • Blanco 21 / 88
  • Buononotte 21 / 88
  • Alejandro Gomez 21 / 88

Off topic' date=' and onto the list of yours! Dominguez got to 88 because of International appearances, coupled with being a regular for a big Mexican side. He may well see a drop to 87 this time around, as he isn't an NT regular, and Cruz Azul have had a torrid Clausura, although if I was forced to choose, I'd predict he would stay at 88 and get a positional change to RB.[/quote']

Yeah... my one take away when I wrote that list down was that most all of the defenders went too far too fast in terms of ratings... and that SM wasn't going to make the same mistake again.

So 87 it is......

.....................but then again, if that list is the young 88 standard, he should definitely be at that level. Needless to say this 87/88 level is a tough one to predict.

Heck, if it's a close call, Forlin deserves the extra point to 88 just for surviving that horror collision vs San Lorenzo!

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Re: Argentinian Analysis

I didn't see you had edited, I would have replied earlier!

At 21yrs old and a 87-rating' date=' Forlin would be rated equivalent to Lee Cattermole & Liuz Gustavo.

From looking at this maybe SM screwwed up the Aliyev rating, because certainly he is at a different real-life standard than Cattermole & Luiz Gustavo.[/quote']

There is a myth round these parts, by the name of the "2 year rule". Whilst that rule is nonsense, there is an element to it that is true. A player who has started the last 2 seasons consistently is going to get a more generous rating than that of the same player after half a season. By that time he has built himself up a reputation, and SM know that he is not covering an injury. The two afore mentioned players have proved themselves over 2/3 seasons. Aliev was in his first full season, anything could have happened, and 87 was the correct rating.

Maybe Forlin should be looked at more like Rui Patricio. Young up-and-comer' date=' who plays for a mid-table squad and is a rock in the back and is going to own his position in the NT in a few years. Rui Patricio is 21 & 88.[/quote']

The similarities you have drawn are perfect. After his first half season, Rui was 85, then after he started the next season, 87, then after his second main season he has reached 88. 87 is the magic first season number for a future NT I think.

Or maybe he should be compared to the other young studs in Argentina who he certainly is on par with :

  • Blanco 21 / 88
  • Buononotte 21 / 88
  • Alejandro Gomez 21 / 88

Whilst I agree that Forlin is class, I have to disagree with this. For one, you cannot compare these attacking flair players, with the consistent solid Forlin. If we were to compare the influence each player has on their team, then all 4 would be 88. Blanco was stand out last season for Lanus whilst Valeri was out. Him and Sand turned an average team into one which was great to watch. Salvio took a lot of praise, but without Blanco, I don't think we would have seen half as much freedom of play as we did. Gomez is the least noticable out of the three, but he has been constistently good for San Lorenzo, a big team, for the last 2 seasons now. Buononotte is a classic case of SM with prodigies. He really is in a league of his own when he wants to be, but he just goes missing, causing him to often find himself benched. However, SM see the class, see the future, and are generous. We saw this when Breno kept his 88 about a year longer than he should have done!

Whilst Forlin is class and has a massive future, he hasn't been doing what he is doing for long enough. If he is still at Boca this time next year he will be 89. If he leaves in the summer, which looks likely, he could get to a 90, or stay at the 87 he will soon be given. Only time will tell.

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Re: Argentinian Analysis

Sooooo' date=' thoughts on the Boca v Defensor game :P[/quote']

Haha, I saw you'd posted and knew exactly what you'd be asking!

Well, I'll tell you what I have on.

Draw/Boca - HT/FT

More than 2.5 goals

2-1 Boca

Radebe20 Ltd takes in no proportion any blame for bad tips, and cannot guarantee the performance of the referee.

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Re: Argentinian Analysis

great thread - some nice analysis on here.

got 3 questions:

1. is papa still on line for an 89 like predicted a few weeks back

2. any chance of angeleri getting a 90 this time around? from the little i've seen i've been impressed with him and

3. is zuculini still on for a +1?

ps dont bet on boca juniors - they've screwed up two accumulators for me in the past 2 weeks and they are on my gambling blacklist and should be on everyone's blacklist :D

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Re: Argentinian Analysis

great thread - some nice analysis on here.

got 3 questions:

1. is papa still on line for an 89 like predicted a few weeks back

2. any chance of angeleri getting a 90 this time around? from the little i've seen i've been impressed with him and

3. is zuculini still on for a +1?

ps dont bet on boca juniors - they've screwed up two accumulators for me in the past 2 weeks and they are on my gambling blacklist and should be on everyone's blacklist :D

I'd say Papa is a dead cert for 89. He's playing well at a team that is also playing well, and with his recent NT outings, no rise would be disgusting!

He has a chance. I think if Battaglia gets a 90, then Angeleri will also. Both are the stand out solid performers for the two Argentine clubs left in the CL, and if the researchers watch these leagues then we will see the proof as these two break 90. Estudiantes fine form of late, and the capture of the Argentinian RB spot are going to go a long way to help, but we will have to wait and see. I won't be surprised if them two don't get 90, but I'll be disappointed.

Zuculini is smack on the border line between 85 and 86. If asked to call I would say 86, but thats only 50.1%.

Boca have cost me twice as well! Last weeks late conceded goal against Defensor, and the week before conceding late again at San Lorenzo. However, the goal they conceded in the 90th the week before earnt me an awful lot so I can't complain too much at their lack of ability to defend in the last 5 minutes.

They're currently 1-0 down at half time, which would see them eliminated from the CL. De Souza scored a great goal, and Boca have missed a couple of great chances. Now is a great time to crack a ton on them winning, which you can get at prices up to 5/2. The bookies are trying to give money away :P

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Re: Argentinian Analysis

Wasn't confident enough on Boca to win thank god but had over 2.5 goals as well' date=' Boca have had chances but there's just no cutting edge to their play, Defensor have defended well and can't see there being 2 goals in 10 minutes :mad:[/quote']

In the second half it's not even that they've had the chances, they've just created nothing. Chavez was a waste of space, Riquelme only ever plays the ball down the right to Palacio, and Palermo? Where is he!

Roncaglia has offered nowhere near as much as Ibarra does going forward down the right, which is a shame because Defensor have packed the middle of defence with 6 players and have no strength down the wings.

There is just no creative spark, and it has been like this all Clausura.

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Re: Argentinian Analysis

Yep' date=' pretty shocking performance. Off subject, I saw Matias De Federico scored against Panama, rated a lowly 77, what do you reckon he could hit? High as 84/85?[/quote']

Yeh, he'll get 84.

Just to put that game into context for people that don't follow Copa Libertadores football, that was like Copenhagen knocking Liverpool out of the Champions League.

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Re: Argentinian Analysis

Radebe ~

If you have time would love to see your current take on the following for the Primera División :

  • Best XI
  • Future Superstars XI

  • U23 XI (I've seen this list on another thread and the amount of £ to be made and the ROIC from it is sick...)

Thanks...

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Re: Argentinian Analysis

Now is a great time to crack a ton on them winning' date=' which you can get at prices up to 5/2. The bookies are trying to give money away :P[/quote']

I really hope you didn't go through with that bet mate! The bookies always do their best to make you think that they're stupid, but they know what they're doing!

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Re: Argentinian Analysis

Sorry for the trouble.

Here are some players I have, not sure should I keep them after the ratings are done.

Alexis MACHUCA 70 (Hasn't increased in ages)

Marcelo BURZAC 70 (Hasn't increased in ages)

Eduardo SALVIO 85 (Sold, should I buy him again?)

Facundo RONCAGLIA 83 (Had since rating was 77)

Lucas VIATRI 85 (Had since rating was 75)

NICOLAS GAITAN 82 (Had since rating was 72)

Juan FORLIN 83 (Had since rating was 71)

Ricardo Daniel NOIR 83 (Had since rating was 73)

Franco ZUCULINI 84 (Had since rating was 78)

Mauro BOGADO 78

Mauro FORMICA 75

Sergio VITTOR 74

Ramón LENTINI 75

Alfredo RAMIREZ 78

Matías DE FEDERICO 77

Leandro VELAZQUEZ 74

Ignacio CANUTO 78

Exequiel BENAVIDEZ 75

Gastón MONZON 73

Alfredo MATIAS MARTINEZ 72

Federico MANCUELLO 75

Nicolas OTAMENDI 75

Fabián CASTILLO 75

Iván PILLUD 75

Lucas AVELDANO 74

Ivan MARCONE 74

Sebastián SCIORILLI 75

Raul IBERBIA 75

Guillermo BURDISSO 76

Cristian CHAVEZ 73

Grazie.

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Re: Argentinian Analysis

Radebe ~

If you have time would love to see your current take on the following for the Primera División :

  • Best XI
  • Future Superstars XI

  • U23 XI (I've seen this list on another thread and the amount of £ to be made and the ROIC from it is sick...)

Thanks...

Do you think that's maybe worth a new thread? As it would be buried in the middle of 13 pages of chatter? Aye' date=' think I'll do that now.

I really hope you didn't go through with that bet mate! The bookies always do their best to make you think that they're stupid, but they know what they're doing!

Yeh I did. Gunna win more than you lose, I reckon Boca may have had upwards of 70% possession last night, and just didn't look to have any spark. I honestly don't think Ischia will see the Apertura...

Sorry for the trouble.

Here are some players I have' date=' not sure should I keep them after the ratings are done.

Alexis MACHUCA 70 He made Newell's squad for the first time this season. Will eventually get a big rise and something of a future. Depends how your patience is.

Marcelo BURZAC 70 Same as above, in terms of patience.

Eduardo SALVIO 85 Will be massive. Only a +1 for now though.

Facundo RONCAGLIA 83 Should get 86, unsure about LT though.

Lucas VIATRI 85 Was only ever covering for Palermo and Palacio. Will stay for now but is a Boca legend in the future.

NICOLAS GAITAN 82 86, with the potential to go a whole lot firther.

Juan FORLIN 83 87. Love this kid. Massive future.

Ricardo Daniel NOIR 83 Again, was only ever covering. Not sure about how much of a future he has.

Franco ZUCULINI 84 85/86, massive future.

Mauro BOGADO 78 80

Mauro FORMICA 75 82, I like this kid a lot.

Sergio VITTOR 74 Maybe a little rise to 76. At one of the best places to build a future for himself.

Ramón LENTINI 75 75, future talent. I don't understand why he hasn't featured more. I rate him.

Alfredo RAMIREZ 78 82

Matías DE FEDERICO 77 84, class act.

Leandro VELAZQUEZ 74 78

Ignacio CANUTO 78 83

Exequiel BENAVIDEZ 75 This guy's gunna be class, only 79 or so for now though.

Gastón MONZON 73 83

Alfredo MATIAS MARTINEZ 72 82

Federico MANCUELLO 75 82/83, big talent.

Nicolas OTAMENDI 75 83/84, again, huge talent.

Fabián CASTILLO 75 79 or so.

Iván PILLUD 75 83

Lucas AVELDANO 74 82

Ivan MARCONE 74 74

Sebastián SCIORILLI 75 80

Raul IBERBIA 75 82/83

Guillermo BURDISSO 76 81

Cristian CHAVEZ 73 80

Grazie.

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Re: Argentinian Analysis

I'd say Papa is a dead cert for 89. He's playing well at a team that is also playing well' date=' and with his recent NT outings, no rise would be disgusting!

He has a chance. I think if Battaglia gets a 90, then Angeleri will also. Both are the stand out solid performers for the two Argentine clubs left in the CL, and if the researchers watch these leagues then we will see the proof as these two break 90. Estudiantes fine form of late, and the capture of the Argentinian RB spot are going to go a long way to help, but we will have to wait and see. I won't be surprised if them two don't get 90, but I'll be disappointed.[/quote']

Re: Angeleri...

Do you think the search for 90 is just a futile effort in Argentina (& Brazil for that matter) ?

Zero Defensive players rated 90-or-higher who ply their trade in Argentina

Four Midfielders (Riquelme, Veron, Montenegro & Ledesma)

Two Strikers (Sand & Palacio)

Is the bigger issue here that Angeleri is up against an "unofficial" 89-cap for the league (particularly the back line)?

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Re: Argentinian Analysis

Tom

Was just going to ask for your views on the Godoy Cruz vs Tigre game

but then i remembered what you said about the Boca game :P

Haha. I knew Defensor would score, just thought Boca would play half decent for once and score more. Did you watch it or did you get that early night after all?

As for Tigre, 3.45 for a draw looks very attractive. 16 for Tigre/draw HT/FT looks good as well. But there again, it hasn't been going well for me recently :(

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Re: Argentinian Analysis

Re: Angeleri...

Do you think the search for 90 is just a futile effort in Argentina (& Brazil for that matter) ?

Zero Defensive players rated 90-or-higher who ply their trade in Argentina

Four Midfielders (Riquelme' date=' Veron, Montenegro & Ledesma)

Two Strikers (Sand & Palacio)

[/indent']Is the bigger issue here that Angeleri is up against an "unofficial" 89-cap for the league (particularly the back line)?

It seems, and rightly so, that SM don't rate the defences as highly as they do the attacks in Brazil. However, if the player had the right credentials, i.e. enough NT caps, enough transfer rumours, and enough top performances, then they would be more than willing to stretch to the 90.
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Re: Argentinian Analysis

Haha. I knew Defensor would score' date=' just thought Boca would play half decent for once and score more. Did you watch it or did you get that early night after all?

As for Tigre, 3.45 for a draw looks very attractive. 16 for Tigre/draw HT/FT looks good as well. But there again, it hasn't been going well for me recently :([/quote']

Yep had that early night (if you call midnight early :D)

How did game go ?

Gone for my lucky bet, draw HT/FT

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Re: Argentinian Analysis

Yep had that early night (if you call midnight early :D)

How did game go ?

Gone for my lucky bet' date=' draw HT/FT[/quote']

Mate, it was so hard to watch. De Souza scored a peach for them half way through the first, their only break of the half. After that I can't remember them getting out of their own half until a couple of breaks in the last ten. Boca were all of them, but didn't take the chances in the first half, and then in the second they didn't even create any to miss. They just lack that bit of creative flair that an on form Riquelme provides. The loss of Datolo has hit them hard this Clausura. They would have got Estudiantes in the next round as well, they'll absolutely destroy Defensor.

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Re: Argentinian Analysis

Hey Radebe,

Apart from some of those players you mentioned in replying to calcios post, are there any other players/risers that you consider "must buy" before the ratings changes? after looking through your thread i hope i'll have most of them but wanted to ask you so i dont miss any gems

Cheers

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Re: Argentinian Analysis

Hey Radebe' date='

Apart from some of those players you mentioned in replying to calcios post, are there any other players/risers that you consider "must buy" before the ratings changes? after looking through your thread i hope i'll have most of them but wanted to ask you so i dont miss any gems

Cheers[/quote']

Yeah Radebe great thread can I also have some help in this and also are there any young goalkeepers likely to rise in these ratings? under around 78 rating? thanks:D

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