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Gold Championship Game World Economies


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Re: Gold Championship Game World Economies

I have found this thread pretty hard to look through to be honest because, as has been mentioned, people certainly appear to be thinking selfishly and/or failing to look at the bigger/long term picture. This is not aimed at anyone in particular, before anyone gets in a twist.

SM have already said that they will look at individual cases if people send a ticket so I am not sure why people keep talking about how horrendous the change is for THEM. Can people who dislike the change also PLEASE read the content on the following link as it is clear some who are posting have yet to bother:

http://blog.soccermanager.com/messages/messages-gold-championship-game-world-economies-2.html

Temporarily, yes, some clubs might be less attractive but most Gold Championships will become more attractive as Gameworlds long term if they have a more realistic economy. 'Rebasing' finances is just the first step to this end and the more I think about it the more sensible it is, otherwise people who had amassed fortunes would be hugely advantaged by the changes linked in with the first one (like scaled down prize money, gate receipts, greater unmanaged club protection etc) and stay unaffected by them for a long long time.

When money has more value then it will become far more likely for small clubs to improve than it currently is and even the weak clubs will become more attractive. At the moment the average person joins GC's and leave as they find they have fortunes that won't buy them anything.

SM have been pretty brave to make a move that would so clearly be responded to with outrage; it shows that they are not bothered about pandering to the petty shortsighted people and are taking a long term view and prepared to take drastic action. Anyone who doesn't see the merit in this idea needs to take a deep breath and consider whether long term this change will actually have any negative effect on the game - the conclusion will probably be 'no' - rather than post "my team lost £xxxM" blah blah blah. These sorts of arguments are not going to dissuade SM in the slightest, I would imagine.

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Re: Gold Championship Game World Economies

Personally I always tried to spend my balance on up and coming youngsters and never had any money in the bank - at least that way I would make money on the youngsters as their ratings increase and gives me pride in watching the player ratings go through on a weekly basis.

I only had 35K in my bank when the changes went through and now I have been left with in excess of 7 Mill.........Yes I have been very fortunate in this and I do feel sorry for some of the guys who have lost bundles of cash, but I totally agree with what SM are doing and feel that in the long run there will be more of an even playing field !!

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Re: Gold Championship Game World Economies

Tbph, the more I read this thread the more I like it. I'd have liked some warning though, as this change has resulted in a few deals being collapsed due to lack of funds.

I for one actually find plenty of use for money, and rarely will you see my teams with more than a few mil. In-fact, I don't think I have more than £10m in any GC. Especially smaller teams. For instance I had £9m in GC23 - and I had plenty of players shortlisted to improve my team. The only reason I didn't spend that was because I was waiting for a few players to be added.

I'm not having a go at SM here - if that £5m I lost in GC23 was because of TV revenue, and other things that I have done nothing whatsoever to gain it, then fair enough. I'm just letting people know what money is not completely "worthless".

In-fact, many a time have I sold players rated 88+ (sometimes over 90) for cash. You may think I'm getting ripped off, but normally it's because I've signed players for cash, they've risen, the 88+ player is no longer needed and I've sold for cash. Then the cycle starts again.

But I understand there's few like this.

The only thing I am critical of is teams losing prize money or cash injections. This isn't the case for me, but it must hurt to get that well-earned prize money, or start of season cash injection to improve your squad, only to lose all of it instantly.

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Guest ExiledScotInTheUSA

Re: Gold Championship Game World Economies

All I'm reading on here are "self pity" stories. I had this' date=' I had that. Freaking selfish. EVERYONE lost something. A few small clubs even gained money. Those with the most lost the most. This change was made for the future and the long-term benefits of the game. We're all in the same boat and dealing with the same change.

You had massive amounts of money because it was worthless, and now you're complaining about your worthless fortune being taken. It was freaking WORTHLESS! Now you have alot less, but atleast now it is worth something.

SM are making changes that gives money value, and will force clubs to be fiscally responsible or else go into debt... in which case they will be forced to sell players ... which is what everyone wants.

Quit your selfish ********. If you threaten to quit, so be it. They'll be new managers signing up because SM now has an economic system that works and makes the game better.

I lost alot of money.... I didn't have a so-called "big club". I lost out on a player or two a was about to sign because of lost money. But I'm over it because it's a small price to pay for the game being improved overall.[/quote']

I have calmed down after my initial outburst :P, however, my enjoyment is to take lower teams and build from nothing. I have many teams in GC's and most are small teams, example, I took over Carl Zeiss Jena in the second division, they had nothing, no money, no players, so I took up the challenge to build them up. I finished 13th in my first season but won the german Cup with a shoestring team. We are into game 11 of the season and I'm lying third and doing well, I saved my money slowly as there is not a lot of revenue here :D, and I saved 25 million, part of that was for winning the Cup, I made bids for two players to help with my promotion surge and SM took 22 million plus off of me, so I have nothing, back to zilch. My anger is not one of selfishness, I played the game within the perameters of the rules and got screwed, like many others. I have accepted that SM have done this for the betterment of the game, and Iwill move on, but don't call people selfish for spending long hours building up small teams only to have the chair kicked from under them. Hopefully, SM will tackle the more severe problem of managers having anything up to a 150 plus players while the rest of the guys scramble for what's left. I saved my money waiting for better deals, I didn't buy all and sundry to cripple the transfer market, this is my opinion and the game needed sorting out, hopefully SM will take it all the way now. :)

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Re: Gold Championship Game World Economies

I just want to say that this is the best implemented, long term plan that SM has put forward. Best idea since breakfast cereal. I know there are those who seem to be hard done by, but I have been noticing a trend....................rather than actually READING all provided information by SM in regards to this Economy change, people are sending out global messages complaining, stating that its not fair, etc, BEFORE EVEN READING ABOUT IT.

I have had 3 messages in GC's today alone, all asking "Where's my money gone?" or "Has anyone else lost money?". I think it is appalling that some Gold Members do not have the incentive to investigate before flying off the handle. I mean, how hard is it to miss reading the latest news in your club overview?

And the other thing that makes me laugh, are the ones who say "hard earned money" when they manage a team like Barcelona. ahaha About as hard earned as holding your hand out for a payout! :)

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Re: Gold Championship Game World Economies

I have found this thread pretty hard to look through to be honest because' date=' as has been mentioned, [b']people certainly appear to be thinking selfishly and/or failing to look at the bigger/long term picture. [/b] This is not aimed at anyone in particular, before anyone gets in a twist.

I think it's a bit strange to be accusing people of acting selfishly because they've had heavy financial change against them, and they come off here to give off some steam. Surely, a lot of people put a lot of effort into the game feel hard done by, especially since it came so suddenly (I know it had to be done like this), but most people who have complained have said that they are also aware that it's for the long-term gain of the game in general.

I'm sure if you were left in the same position as some have been, you wouldn't be happy.

SM have already said that they will look at individual cases if people send a ticket so I am not sure why people keep talking about how horrendous the change is for THEM. Can people who dislike the change also PLEASE read the content on the following link as it is clear some who are posting have yet to bother.

...but most people don't have the time to look through 11 pages of people's opinion. People see what's happened' date=' come on the forum, write their bit, like most threads on any subject in any forum - I don't really see a problem in it, and i'm sure that if SM do, they'll just lock the thread.

Temporarily, yes, some clubs might be less attractive but most Gold Championships will become more attractive as Gameworlds long term if they have a more realistic economy. 'Rebasing' finances is just the first step to this end and the more I think about it the more sensible it is, otherwise people who had amassed fortunes would be hugely advantaged by the changes linked in with the first one (like scaled down prize money, gate receipts, greater unmanaged club protection etc) and stay unaffected by them for a long long time.

I don't really believe that - a matter of opinion I guess. I think a lot of clubs in older games will be lost forever to new management. Who is going to take on Fulham with an 21 man squad averaging ratings of 82, and average age of 32, and with £8 million to spend. I'm sorry - I just can't see it.

When money has more value then it will become far more likely for small clubs to improve than it currently is and even the weak clubs will become more attractive. At the moment the average person joins GC's and leave as they find they have fortunes that won't buy them anything.

Again' date=' I have to disagree. I believe the staus quo will be maintained on all of the games where the old rules did apply. You'll have people managing the bigger clubs hogging the best players and although they won't have much money, they'll not really need to sell, and the clubs who have lost their best players, yet have had money taken from them will have no real way of rebuilding.

I agree that with new games, the rules will be a very positive change.

SM have been pretty brave to make a move that would so clearly be responded to with outrage; it shows that they are not bothered about pandering to the petty shortsighted people and are taking a long term view and prepared to take drastic action. Anyone who doesn't see the merit in this idea needs to take a deep breath and consider whether long term this change will actually have any negative effect on the game - the conclusion will probably be 'no' - rather than post "my team lost £xxxM" blah blah blah. These sorts of arguments are not going to dissuade SM in the slightest, I would imagine.

Outrage?

About a few dozen people letting off steam is hardly outrage in the context of how many thousands of people actually play the game. I can see why some people have a problem with it - but I do agree with the rules that were changed, albeit this morning when I first found out I didn't agree.

Would one negative effect not be the 30 odd resignations someone posted about earlier?

Anyway, to me, selfishness is having a squad of 100 - not wondering why your chairman wiped £100 million off your transfer fund.

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Re: Gold Championship Game World Economies

I just want to say that this is the best implemented' date=' long term plan that SM has put forward. Best idea since breakfast cereal. I know there are those who seem to be hard done by, but I have been noticing a trend....................rather than actually READING all provided information by SM in regards to this Economy change, people are sending out global messages complaining, stating that its not fair, etc, BEFORE EVEN READING ABOUT IT.

I have had 3 messages in GC's today alone, all asking "Where's my money gone?" or "Has anyone else lost money?". I think it is appalling that some Gold Members do not have the incentive to investigate before flying off the handle. I mean, how hard is it to miss reading the latest news in your club overview?

And the other thing that makes me laugh, are the ones who say "hard earned money" when they manage a team like Barcelona. ahaha About as hard earned as holding your hand out for a payout! :)[/quote']

The changes are going to make the game a lot more even in the future - there is no doubt in that. I also love the new 7 day rule for unmanaged clubs - they are brilliant ideas.

I don't understand why some don't see how managers can get angry after losing a lot of money, no matter how they got it. Would you not be shocked if you had lost £100 odd million when you were about to close a few transfers?

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Re: Gold Championship Game World Economies

I certainly know where they are coming from BigDirtyJames, as my Eintracht Frankfurt had lost over $100 million. I was lucky in the fact I had no deals going on, so I wasn't overly heartbroken. 'Tis a shame, however, that most of my players are older, like in their 30's, so will have to just start saving for some youth :)

I suspect that this whole ordeal will take time to pan and even out, as one would expect. Until then, guess we shall have the highs and lows in regards to the changes.

Good luck to everyone with the new changes and may it make you prosper and help your small teams :)

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Re: Gold Championship Game World Economies

Accusing those managers of smaller clubs as being selfish in voicing their opinions isn't the right approach; they are PAYING customers!

I have only noticed small club managers upset in this thread, not the larger ones. It appears that the smaller club managers have taken on the greater burden of this "painful" adjustment.

I was going to suggest a new economic system that would have been painless as possible but very affective in reaching the economic goals of SM. This new cash withdrawl tax has saved me a day's worth preparing and posting on the forum.

Speaking of time, I can appreciate all the time and effort that these managers have put in their teams in scouting, budgeting, and looking for bargain deals. These are the managers that make setups more dynamic by offsetting the lazy managers with larger clubs (like me).

If the UK goverment decided to cut everyones pay in half by a 50 % tax, those making 100,000 a year wil not suffer as much as those making 20-40 thousand per year. The tax is the same rate, but much more severe effects.

Small club managers would feel better if the larger clubs shared more if not equally in the pain.

SM has a chance to do this by limiting squad sizes (capping the profits) and dramatically increasing the salaries of higher rated players (89+). This would at least give the smaller clubs a chance to get moving again while the larger clubs sort out their players and fianaces.

The smaller clubs played by the rules; that's what they paid for!

Hopefully SM will balance out the pain very quickly for all involved.

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Re: Gold Championship Game World Economies

I have found this thread pretty hard to look through to be honest because' date=' as has been mentioned, [b']people certainly appear to be thinking selfishly and/or failing to look at the bigger/long term picture. [/b]This is not aimed at anyone in particular, before anyone gets in a twist.

SM have already said that they will look at individual cases if people send a ticket so I am not sure why people keep talking about how horrendous the change is for THEM. Can people who dislike the change also PLEASE read the content on the following link as it is clear some who are posting have yet to bother:

http://blog.soccermanager.com/messages/messages-gold-championship-game-world-economies-2.html

Temporarily, yes, some clubs might be less attractive but most Gold Championships will become more attractive as Gameworlds long term if they have a more realistic economy. 'Rebasing' finances is just the first step to this end and the more I think about it the more sensible it is, otherwise people who had amassed fortunes would be hugely advantaged by the changes linked in with the first one (like scaled down prize money, gate receipts, greater unmanaged club protection etc) and stay unaffected by them for a long long time.

When money has more value then it will become far more likely for small clubs to improve than it currently is and even the weak clubs will become more attractive. At the moment the average person joins GC's and leave as they find they have fortunes that won't buy them anything.

SM have been pretty brave to make a move that would so clearly be responded to with outrage; it shows that they are not bothered about pandering to the petty shortsighted people and are taking a long term view and prepared to take drastic action. Anyone who doesn't see the merit in this idea needs to take a deep breath and consider whether long term this change will actually have any negative effect on the game - the conclusion will probably be 'no' - rather than post "my team lost £xxxM" blah blah blah. These sorts of arguments are not going to dissuade SM in the slightest, I would imagine.

^^I agree with Steve here. Arguements are not gonna dissuade SM really, and no more posting like "I know but this is not good for us Gold Members" or "My team lost £xxxM" blah blah blah. So I suggest you stop this arguement as its not going to help you solve the problem.

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Re: Gold Championship Game World Economies

^^I agree with Steve here. Arguements are not gonna dissuade SM really' date=' and no more posting like "I know but this is not good for us Gold Members" or "My team lost £xxxM" blah blah blah. So I suggest you stop this arguement as its not going to help you solve the problem.[/quote']

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the money SM have taken through dividends is the money that was built up by not spending? but all the transfer deals money has stayed with the club? if so, why the hell are people moaning? they weren't using the money?

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Re: Gold Championship Game World Economies

I honestly believe the changes will be great for the game in the long run and can see much more competitive markets, more competitive leagues and an all-round better gaming experience for most in the long run.

Unfortunately, the way it was suddenly implemented has understandably not gone down well with many. But if you take away you're frustrations and sit down and think about it, SM having decided this was the best option, had no other way to implement it but the way they did. Giving us two day warning would have lead to the inevitable mass buying of any players to obtain assets and prevent losing the hefty balances.

I've been looking through the various threads created and seen several interesting ideas on how this situation could have been avoided and different ways of balancing the economies. Not all are workable, but some could have been adapted. The unfortunate thing is, there have been several threads over the past year or so aimed at resolving the gold championship money problem. This tells us two things:

1. It was viewed as a problem

2. People were trying to find solutions and wanted somthing done.

But having looked at most of these previous threads, it's clear no idea was universally approved, most were not workable and had flaws and many were not popular. So it's clear, any implementation would have been unpopular with many, just like this improvement. It's harsh now to criticise SM so vehemently when they are actually trying to rectify the situation, and when clearly between us, we have not been able to come up with a satisfactory solution. The horse has now bolted and any ideas now are probably too late in all honesty. I don't think it's been totally correctly, but appreciate any change would have been difficult. SM have also stated several times that other changes will also be occurring soon and I'm guessing they will be along the lines of the Key game improvements they announced, and if I'm right, I'm pretty certain they will balance some of the advantage conferred to large squads that many are unhappy about :)

Where I believe SM may have gone wrong slightly is the effect on the huge squads in the GCs. It's clear squads of 40-50 players or less have been penalised heavily buy losing 100s of millions of 'non-transfer revenue'. But I am wondering if the larger squads have had the same formula applied to them. Some large sqads have been carefully built with huge risers and players bought at rock bottom dollar prices - these clubs probably have made a break even transfer balance and possibly in some cases a profit. I am not talking about these clubs.

However, I can well imagine some large clubs have sold next to no players, have 200+ players all bought for 10s of millions and have kept their balance at next to zero. Surely in these cases they have only balanced the books through their revenue. In which case, if the same formula was applied, these clubs should now have balances of minus £300m or similar sums. It might seem unfair to them, but it's honesly the only way to ensure this is a balanced and fair improvement. If this has not occurred, then this is where the application of this dividend penalty becomes unfair. I'm also intrigued to see how some clubs have managed to acquire money through the dividend scheme and I still cannot get my head around this one :confused:

The short-term view of many of us, is that we have been harshly dealt with. But the long-term view is certainly rosier. SM have already anounced that the stadium factor will have less effect in building huge balances. Perhaps there will no longer be the clambour to get the Real Madrids, Barcelonas, Milans and Man Us in GCs. The other Key game improvements mooted earlier this year by SM will ensure huge squads may actually result in players refusing to sign new contracts - more good players to go round possibly? Keeping balances lower will eventually result in players becoming available at lower values so that more clubs can afford them and compete for them :eek:. I honestly believe we have to be patient and allow SM to roll out their key game improvements which are linked with this and then see where we are. Change is always painful, but often better in the long run. Let's see where it takes us :)

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Re: Gold Championship Game World Economies

So far these changes are not solving anything, I read one message sent this morning from a manager saying he has 3 players for sale, he does not want cash (I know nobody has any anyway!) but wants 2 players for each of his, IMO this is going to go on forever.

It is only the small clubs or those with little squads that have took a big hit with these, those on here complaining that they lost hundreds of millions from their barcalona or Man utd I have no sympathy with as you already have your 90+ star players whereas small teams like my Numancia maybe would have got there eventually (due to excellent management by myself :D) but now they have no chance. This is why I don't care that my bigger teams such as Stuttgart & fiorentina lost 20 times what my Numancia lost and why I am feeling sorry for people that manage teams like Macclesfield, Le Havre and Rot weiss essen, and also those that have took on a challenge of an unmanaged team that has been raped of all its players. Soccer manager has just made a lot of teams totally untouchable and unmanageable, the small clubs are going to struggle more and the Milans and Madrids are going to be more dominent.

As for the new 7 day ruling I like it but only if you do something to stop club hoppers or cheaters collapsing deals, it was annoying enough before when you had to wait 2 days after some idiot collapsed your deal after joining then instantly quitting the club but now to have to wait a week for it for another idiot to do the same again??? :mad:

And to people that are saying that us do not like the changes are being selfish remember that we are customers, we should have a say in things and at the moment I don't like whats happening one bit and I am not a very happy customer and at the moment I do not want to part with more money. I have 76 days of gold membership remaining and for me that is how long they have to prove what they have done is right

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Re: Gold Championship Game World Economies

This is not going to make cash more valuable in gold setups? I would not touch cash with a barge pole now that I know it can just be wiped out like that, so I doubt anyone else will either!

Why don't they just make the chairman's value based on the total money in the game????? It doesn't take an economist to figure out that if money has inflated ten times over the period a setup has existed then the players' real value that a manager will pay is ten times as much!

It would be really simple to put INFLATION into the game instead of tampering with peoples' teams! Just make a calculation of the total money in the game now (say 5,000,000,000) divided by the total money in the game before (say 4,500,000,000) = 1.111111 = 11.1% inflation so you make the value of each player go up by 11.1% at the end of the season.:confused:

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Re: Gold Championship Game World Economies

This is not going to make cash more valuable in gold setups? I would not touch cash with a barge pole now that I know it can just be wiped out like that' date=' so I doubt anyone else will either!

Why don't they just make the chairman's value based on the total money in the game????? It doesn't take an economist to figure out that if money has inflated ten times over the period a setup has existed then the players' real value that a manager will pay is ten times as much!

It would be really simple to put INFLATION into the game instead of tampering with peoples' teams! Just make a calculation of the total money in the game now (say 5,000,000,000) divided by the total money in the game before (say 4,500,000,000) = 1.111111 = 11.1% inflation so you make the value of each player go up by 11.1% at the end of the season.:confused:[/quote']

I think that could possibly be the best idea I've seen on the forum in a very long time.

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Re: Gold Championship Game World Economies

I would not touch cash with a barge pole now that I know it can just be wiped out like that' date=' so I doubt anyone else will either!

[/quote']

Umm.........wasn't it a one off?

Your idea on the economy is indeed intriguing. Perhaps it is something overlooked by the SM team, or perhaps it was not workable for certain reasons. Whatever the case is, it is a good idea, but I guess we wait to see how it all goes.

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