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"Crippling attendances and gate receipts"


Omnium
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In some custom game worlds I'm in, the teams I manage aren't of a high reputation (eg. Glentoran, Accrington Stanley) and neither are the other teams in the league. Due to recent changes by SM, attendances have been reduced drastically. For previous seasons I was getting high attendances for home games, almost full to capacity, so this meant I was able to afford to pay the contracts of my players comfortably. Recently however I've been lucky to fill 1/20th of my stadium for home games and it's had a really bad impact.

For instance, my Glentoran stadium had been increased over many seasons to 21,000 as I'm one of the best performers in division 1. My stadium was being filled which meant I could afford to buy and pay the contracts of the highest rated players that the rating cap in my league allowed (83). Now though, I'm lucky to get 1,300 fans through the turnstiles and it's absolutely crippling my finances. Without the cash inflow it's impossible for me to keep the squad I have which kind of defeats the point of having an 83 rating cap.

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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

every club is finding this i am top of division 1 twice in a row with sevilla and making losses from attendances......i couldnt be doing much better and still making a loss so really not true to real life is it !

the only way to survive is buy risers although money spent on them is money you cannot spend on your first team players :(

buying risers is what i am forced to do i hope sm restructure the wages etc soon i think they have said they are going to change the forumulae / numbers of it and they need to cos is kinda ruining the game :(

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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

The custom gameworld I am in my Histon team has a stadium capacity of just 3,800

Last Thursday Histon won 12-0 with an attendance of 3,100

My transfer budget for the season was 1.8M so I am afraid moaning about it being harder for you to compete or win or smaller teams being at a massive dissadvantage, doesn't wash I'm afraid.

If I can win 12-0 with just 3,100 turning up, may I suggest you are competing in the wrong gameworlds or you are buying the wrong players or have the wrong tactics.

I am more than happy to post you the proof of my result if you want?

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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

The custom gameworld I am in my Histon team has a stadium capacity of just 3' date='800

Last Thursday Histon won 12-0 with an attendance of 3,100

My transfer budget for the season was 1.8M so I am afraid moaning about it being harder for you to compete or win or smaller teams being at a massive dissadvantage, doesn't wash I'm afraid.

If I can win 12-0 with just 3,100 turning up, may I suggest you are competing in the wrong gameworlds or you are buying the wrong players or have the wrong tactics.

I am more than happy to post you the proof of my result if you want?[/quote']

ermm nobody is complianing about results......it is the lack of money that is the issue not winning games am i right in saying this ?

if not and the thread creator is complaining about results not finacnes i apolgise to soccerfanboy :P

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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

I have Northwich Victoria in a Custom league. Last Season I had gates of around 4,000 for a 4,200 capacity stadium. I finished Mid table last season and was looking forward to a nice big transfer budget from my chairman which unfortunately never came, but he did increase my grounds capacity to 6,600. Thats nice I thought.

Problem is the new season has started, i've got off to a better start to last season (4th) and now my average gates so far is just 1,154.

Dont quite add up does it.

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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

ermm nobody is complianing about results......it is the lack of money that is the issue not winning games am i right in saying this ?

if not and the thread creator is complaining about results not finacnes i apolgise to soccerfanboy :P

No your right it's not about results.

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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

If I can win 12-0 with just 3' date='100 turning up, may I suggest you are competing in the wrong gameworlds or you are buying the wrong players or have the wrong tactics.

[/quote']

No your right it's not about results.

so then soccerfanboy well done for winning but no need to boast about your result then is there :P

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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

things should change you see.most member decided to quit as those clubs with small stadiums but with big names there are finding it har dot cope.as you dont have enough cash to pay wages.so most of the quit.just bring the old game back.:(

i actually complained the day the rules got changed. just knew it was going to kill the small teams and imo sm have shot themselves in the foot. most gameworlds are half empty, everybody is after the same 8 or so clubs. sm have totally made small teams unattractive to manage.

the way sm are going they mite as well just do leagues with the top 8 clubs in and ignore every1 else :mad:

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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

I really enjoy the lower league custom games. I prefer my Northwich Victoria to my Inter team I have. In big team setups you really struggle to purchase decent players where as lower league teams you can buy in the old veterens or find the new up and coming star which is great.

Scouts on the forum really count for alot which makes it all the more fun.

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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

I really enjoy the lower league custom games. I prefer my Northwich Victoria to my Inter team I have. In big team setups you really struggle to purchase decent players where as lower league teams you can buy in the old veterens or find the new up and coming star which is great.

Scouts on the forum really count for alot which makes it all the more fun.

Maybe you should try and managed a team like Walsall in a EC.that way,let see if you can cope.no doubt after 6 games and you will be in debt and guess what.you have to cope with that like you say.:mad:

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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

i actually complained the day the rules got changed. just knew it was going to kill the small teams and imo sm have shot themselves in the foot. most gameworlds are half empty' date=' everybody is after the same 8 or so clubs. sm have totally made small teams unattractive to manage.

the way sm are going they mite as well just do leagues with the top 8 clubs in and ignore every1 else :mad:[/quote']

even the big teams like mine are making a loss it is just losing 0.5 million every 2 games is just about manageable with my sevilla--loosing any money with the smaller teams would be impossible tbh :/

i am going to take over a west ham or fulham so will have to see how i do with them i suppose :(

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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

I'm not moaning about results.

I'm stating that for 4 seasons I was recieving enough cash from gate receipts to enable me to have a squad of 83+ rated players and then all of a sudden I'm dropped in at the deep end and losing almost £1m a week. It's obviously not just me who's struggling in the league, everybody is. We all have wage bills in the region of 500k a game (at a guess) because our stadium capacities in previous seasons allowed us to do so. Now I'd be lucky to be getting enough cash for a wage bill in the region of 50k a game without me going in to debt!

Yes, the teams in the league are small teams. However, this is a custom game world that's been going for about a year, where the transfer rating cap is set at 83 and the stadium sizes have been increased greatly to cope for this.

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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

even the big teams like mine are making a loss it is just losing 0.5 million every 2 games is just about manageable with my sevilla--loosing any money with the smaller teams would be impossible tbh :/

i am going to take over a west ham or fulham so will have to see how i do with them i suppose :(

1st thing to do when you take over them.to make more cash.offer the highest rated player whom you wish to sell.then buy in a player as a cover before you sell your players whom you wanted to sell that way.your other players get some good money rise.thus you are actually making money.this way is tought out by a pure genius from cale.For example i have a Porto i have Bruno Alvas and another defender.i sell Bruno away.the other defender gets a rise of Chairmen value.thus you are able to sell him for a bigger price.thus you get to have more money.cheers.note please do not tell the others about using this trick.:D

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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

Ok guys things to teach if you wish to survive in the current way the whole game is now.

1st:Find out whom you wish to sell

2nd:Find replacements

3rd:sell those higher rated layers 1st.

4th:Lower Chairmen Valued player gets his Chairmen value increased.thus you can sell him for more money

5th:Get those players whom you need

6th:Form a good starting 11 and start off finding a new set of team consiting of risers

7th:Play the games.Cup play 2nd team in order to have your player's fitness balanced.League play 1st team

8Th you got yourself a good squad and is able to survive in the game.

there.just try it out and you can be very succesfull.:D

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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

Inici, The small teams are forced to sell the best players they have to team with money> the allready big teams,

I brough this up on the SM podcast & With SM but noting has changed, infact i brough it up several months ago when SM first mentioned it...before they implemented it

Poeple need to realise that my Shels can compete getting crowds of 900 ever 2nd game compared to uniteds 80k or so

Its a kick in the teeth for stadium upgrades, as the upgrades will be useless for every single team..

--

I cant see how anyone can even pay the wages of a decent sqaud of players on crowds of 800 a week?

Thats my concern, the gap even between monaco & marseille lyon psg etc is massive as it was let alone now my monaco will be getting 6-8000 at games.

The main concern for me is that it further the gaps between big and small which will result in more members not taking these teams & even if they do then just leaving. [This is SM's Single Biggest Problim, & One They Have To Try And Overcome]

I'll Post the Email I sent to curtis & let you read it and hopefully consider my worries for the game introducing this feature.

I'll Leave out the intro:

1} In real life the teams that get high attendences are generally the most succesfull & thus allready have the "star" players in there original squads, these teams generally speaking have the biggest stadiums which already give them an added advantge in Soccer Manager. 1A} The clubs in real life that do not get so good atendences are in reality goin to have a lesser quality squad in SM when starting off & should attendences [gate receipts] in real life be brought into SM this will further the gap between the big & the small in the favour of the big teams.

2} If were talking about avg attendences alot of clubs outside England/Germany/Spain do not get good avg attendences, alot of teams espcially in poorer countries & eastern european countries only get big crowds to big games but overall suffer from getting good atendences over the course ofa season,

I Would like to give some examples and tell me how i'm exspected to challange in the varios setups i'm in, i give these examples of what it will be like for "smaller clubs" to challange the big clubs, As we all know the less chance a smaller team has against its bigger rivals the less chance they will stay managed or even be taken over in Soccer manager & this will result in even more empty setups.

3} Were does this leave my Monaco in French Championship One, champions in season 2 & 3, with just a stadium size of 18,500 it's 2 to 3 times smaller than my rivals stadiums, i've worked very hard to assemble my team however it is very weak debt wise & i've had to sell to keep up, even trying to off load 93 rated german striker klose becasue even tough im getting full houses each week i'm still losing heaps of money despite considerable league & cup prize money,

Should real life attendences be introduced anyone taking over Monaco In SM Simply Doesn't stand a chance as in real life they avg if im correct 6/7,000 a game.

I Support Shelbourne FC In Ireland, Our Avg Attendence is Around 800, I Manage A Shelbourne In The British Championship, originally my Stadium was 10,000 however due to sucess i've had it increased to around 17,500, again despite this i estimated i will still lose around £60m over 3 seasons [At mimimum] whats goin to happen if i start getting crowds of 5,000 or even 8 hundred?

These changes unfortuantly gives another upper hand to bigger clubs in real life & will just lead to bigger gaps in SM for big/small clubs,

Hope you've taken time to read this email, & hope you bring up these worries on the podcast so Ste can re-think there plans which even if they have been working on for months, they need to u-turn.

That was the email Curtis read out, I Can go more in debt if you want but thats the jist of it.

Take my drogs in gc-10 for an example, A crowd of 1,400 for my last home game Despite Considerable performences [As much that coudl be exspected with a stadia of 5,400]

Really i exspected a stadium increase [a few increases] with my sucesses, but instead of increases to my stadium it has effectivly been downgraded by 60%.

IN WC'S Barce Man'u Etc allready have the best players, allready have the best stadiums/attendences, Are allready in the top divisions getting full houses while clubs like Dynamo are now even more difficult to achieve success with.

I'm Just wondering in WC'S At least what percentage of teams outside the top 10/20 in SM have actually won even 1 division 1 title in WC'S? Very Low i should Imagine, Alot of these teams will have attendences drop leaving them further behind the top teams.

Add On

Just Seen Queens Park IN GC'S Now Get Just Over 1,000 Actually About 5 Times There Real Life Attendence ???, Even With This Attendence Ya Man In GC-10 Will Be Peeved & Rightly So, People Take over these teams {Like me with darlington} because of their stadiums,

This Will Stop Challanges As We Know It As There Is Not a Hope In Hell Of Ever Being Able To Compete With Man United/All Other Prem/Champ Teams In EC's

Teams Competing With Celtic Rangers In GC's/Scottish Champs

Financially A Club Like Millwall Can't Compete With The Likes of Any Prem Teams Top Champ Teams [EVER] & Even If They Were To Buy Future Talents, [Why This Game Is Great Buying These Players That Become World Class If You Have This long Term Ambition] They Would Not Able To Afford There Wages, Let Alone a Club Like Queens Or Darlington

& TBH Even teams that qualify for the champs league in real life might not be able to keep high waged players & they will have to be sold [Perhaps with no choice] to the biggest bidder, Man United Barce Etc

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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

In my eyes, SM have cocked up in the biggest possible way imaginable.

They've tried to make the game better by making attendances realistic but all they've achieved by doing this is make small teams unmanagable and with absolutely no hope of ever progressing. They've also ruined current game worlds where teams have built up a good squad over the course of time only to have their funds removed abruptly which has sent them in to spiralling debt.

Imagine if you're in a game world and after 4 seasons your wage bill has increased to 500k a game because your stadium capacity has grown to allow you to do this. Then you start season 5 and all of a sudden you're not even filling 1/10th of stadium capacity, you're earning 250k a week from gates/tv revenue and making a 1m loss.

With my Glentoran it's been like this;

Season 1 - Division 2 - Average attendance 12,000 - Weekly wage 400k = No debt.

Season 2 - Division 1 - Average attendance 15,000 - Weekly wage 800k = No debt.

Season 3 - Division 1 - Average attendance 18,000 - Weekly wage 1m = No debt.

Season 4 - Division 1 - Average attendance 21,000 - Weekly wage 1.2m = No debt.

Season 5 - Division 1 - Average attendance 1,300 - Weekly wage 1.2m = MASSIVE DEBT.

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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

The problem I see that SM have made (well in my circumstance anyway) is that they haven't carried the ratio forward with the staduim increase.

I understand that they are trying to make things more realistic but when i've had gates of 4000 vs 4200 cap then the chairman increases my cap to 6200 why then has my attendance now dropped to 1100? What was the point of the staduim increase? Its serves no purpose.

NB. As an idea I think stadiums should have a 120,000 capacity cap and if you want to increase your capacity then it should cost app £1m for a thousand seats. On top of this your gate reciepts should be an equasion (sp)

League position vs league form vs local derby vs top of the table clash vs relegation decider etc etc = Stadium Attendance.

Not as it is, which has been pointed out by several on this thread, lower league teams are just not going to get used as they cannot surely compete especially when some have been being run for so long to have their funding taken away is simply not fair.

I think SM need to review this urgently before they lose alot of unhappy customers.

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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

like i said earier in the thread it makes most teams unmanagable and will make a lot of game worlds very empty. sm have tried to make the game more realistic but its killing it. who wants to be manager at a club that has to sell their best players to keep heads above water???

only way to keep afloat is by buying young risers then sell them when the value gos up. but who wants to do that? u wud never improve as a team. most ppl i admit want to manage 1 of the top 10 teams on the game, fair enough. but there is people on the game that want to be at small teams for whatever reason (im swindon on an ec btw). its us people who want to manage the small teams that are continually being hit and punished by the rule changes.

sm need a rethink. WHO WANTS TO START AT A SMALL CLUB ATM WITH THE CURRENT RULES? no not me either...

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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

like i said earier in the thread it makes most teams unmanagable and will make a lot of game worlds very empty. sm have tried to make the game more realistic but its killing it. who wants to be manager at a club that has to sell their best players to keep heads above water???

only way to keep afloat is by buying young risers then sell them when the value gos up. but who wants to do that? u wud never improve as a team. most ppl i admit want to manage 1 of the top 10 teams on the game' date=' fair enough. but there is people on the game that want to be at small teams for whatever reason (im swindon on an ec btw). its us people who want to manage the small teams that are continually being hit and punished by the rule changes.

sm need a rethink. WHO WANTS TO START AT A SMALL CLUB ATM WITH THE CURRENT RULES? no not me either...[/quote']

I have repped you mate because I could hardly have said it better myself.

I used to manage Swindon Town in EC1 and now manage Sheffield Utd the same setup. I know where you're coming from!!! Even now at Sheff United, which is hardly a minnow, I have a competitive, average sized squad (47 players, 24 seniors/first team and 23 youths) with a weekly wage budget of 900k (so hardly off the richter scale) and I'm unable to balance the books. I'm in Div 1 and my stadium capacity is 32,604 and yet I only get a crowd of approx 27,000 to home games. This will mean that come the end of the season I'll be approximately 17M in debt (excluding revenue from cup shield games and prize money I may win). Every away game I lose 900k and go further into the red. Every home game I break even at present so my debt level remains the same.

I will restructure my team somewhat to accommodate the new changes but fact remains that this is unrealistic of SM to expect kids (and let's face it, the majority of managers on SM are just that and have no idea about managing a budget or running a business, which is what SM is expecting them to do). SM claimed that they would introduce these changes and base them of real crowd figures, but they are hardly realistic because I looked up the history books and when Sheffield Utd were in the EPL 2 seasons ago, their home crowd AVERAGE attendance was 30,648 NOT 27,000. I think SM have gone waaaaaaay overboard on this one and made a HUGE mistake. To make matters worse the lack of cash injection by the chairman at the start of the season will or has already crippled the transfer market in most of the setups I'm in.

WAKE UP SM AND SMELL THE COFFEE BEFORE MEMBERS/MANAGERS QUIT THE GAMES IN A MASS EXODUS!!!!

I'd like to see one of the SM Devs manage a Boston Utd or Rushden & Diamonds in an EC setup and get them into Div 1 (which is the goal for just about every manager managing a minnow, to get to the top and take on likes of Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea, etc).

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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

And Shells, I'm REALLY surprised how few forumers and managers seem to care about this issue - like not even give a sheet. :eek: Probably further testimony that most haven't realised what's about to happen to them or, more likely, people will just quit the game and leave SM or hunt for a Man U, Inter, Barca, etc and forget about the minnows and smaller clubs in the English Setups.

Herby

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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

Tbh, it only became really clear to me after about 5/10 games in to the season and I'd realised that for quite a few of my teams my transfer budget was already double my balance. Before these changes I never had a problem with debt and now quite a number of my teams are going to be affected, along with a lot of other people's, I feel!

Anyway, if SM's plan was to keep the big teams big and the small teams small, they've certainly done a good job of it.

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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

Tbh' date=' it only became really clear to me after about 5/10 games in to the season and I'd realised that for quite a few of my teams my transfer budget was already double my balance. Before these changes I never had a problem with debt and now quite a number of my teams are going to be affected, along with a lot of other people, I feel![/quote']

I first became aware of it when Shells raised it somewhere in a thread. That's when I started looking at a few of my teams more closely and noticed that my fianances were in trouble and needed restructuring. For example, I manage a Sao Paulo and always had money to burn due to being in Div 1 and having the luxury of an 80,000 seater stadium I paid no or very little notice to cashflow and the financials. :o Since the changes my avg crowd attendance has dropped from 75k per home game to about 20-25k. :eek: That has made a HUGE difference and I've had to reduce my squad and sell a few players to balance the books. Not expecting anyone to feel sorry for me, it's hardly a Shelbourne scenario but I'm just pointing out that if the manager of a Sao Paulo did nothing, he'd soon be in debt.

I've been playing SM long enough (4 years) to remember some of the older setups which were littered with teams in debt .... massive debt balances of 20+M because managers couldn't look after them. They had been ruined, LITERALLY! SM had to clear the debt in most cases to make these clubs semi attractive to managers again. I remember Neller posting on the forum, challenging managers to take over a debt ridden team in WC2 to see how good they were and if they could turn the team around. It took a few very good managers 3 seasons to get the team back into the black and even then, the team was virtually made up of unknown youths so it would take another 3-5 seasons to get a half decent team onto the park!

I can see things returning to the 'old' days, which is sad .... very sad indeed but SM will only have themselves to blame. Maybe they should hire an accountant to help them rather than just IT nerds! :rolleyes::mad:

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