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"Crippling attendances and gate receipts"


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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

I just don't understand why SM want to use realistic attendances because this game doesn't work to real life. Other than game world changes being made at the end of the season when teams get moved in to higher or lower leagues for new game worlds being created, the only way it works to real life is player form/player rating changes and that's pretty much it.

Other than that, everything is different to real life. The length of a season, the transfer of players, how teams play in-game compared to real life, promotion/relegation in-game... these are just a few things of many, MANY differences why SM is not like world football.

I doubt anyone cares about catchment area or global support of a VIRTUAL TEAM.

In my opinion, game finances shouldn't be based on real life, they should be based on in-game performance and how well your team does.

The more you win, the more fans you should get coming to your games.

The better you play, the more money you make.

The more money you have, the bigger your stadium should be.

My conclusion is... all teams available to manage should be seen as equal. They should all potentially be able to become the best teams in their respected game worlds.

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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

I think i am a prime example of the typical SM player, in GC's before all the latest 'gameworld economies rebalancing' i owned teams such as Darlington, Huddersfield Town and my giant club being Walsall...

However since the changes and so on i have given up on all three and resorted to Manchester United, AC Milan and my minnow GC team being Lazio with a measly 80,000+ capacity stadia...:rolleyes:

I don't mind a challenge of having to work closely with my transfer balance but i am just a casual player, someone who wants to use tactical knowledge to outwit and counter my opponent and also working the odd bit of magic in the transfer market to acquire a better player for my team whether it is a cash purchase a P/e deal.

I don't have the time or patience to go scouting players, reading up stats or waiting on here for the hard working forumers who give us all the big risers to have a bidding war with about 5 other members on every 70 rated player that should hit 78 and make me a £800,000 profit in 2months time just to keep my minnow Darlington in the black for another week or two...

What fun is it for me to have a group of 21-24 players with a rating cap dictacted by low attendances and revenue and then having to sign risers who have no future at my club other than a quick profit re-sale to keep the club out of debt before i can snatch my next 'riser' to put the bread on the table for another couple of months only for my beloved chairman to tell me that his is deciding not to invest any transfer money into the club for the new season because his wife went wild with his credit card after all my hard efforts...?

Then on the rare occasion a real gem becomes available with a transfer fee of around £250,000 from an unmanaged club, a pretty hufty fee for a team struggling to pay it's current crop of players their christmas bonus let alone wages. So i make my bid but 24hours later i'm told the deal has collapsed because Barca fancied him for the 30man stong youth team and put in a £4million bid 'just to be sure' without a seconds though...

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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

And Shells' date=' [b']I'm REALLY surprised how few forumers and managers seem to care about this issue[/b] - like not even give a sheet. :eek: Probably further testimony that most haven't realised what's about to happen to them or, more likely, people will just quit the game and leave SM or hunt for a Man U, Inter, Barca, etc and forget about the minnows and smaller clubs in the English Setups.

Herby

The problem is the vast majority of forumers/managers manage top sides through one means or another. Very few manage the small sides. Of those who do, I'd imagine the vast majority would see this as an added challenge possibly and also they are the ones already engaging in the SM stock market trading of buying and selling risers.

The numbers of managers who are managing small clubs against larger clubs without partaking in large quantities of buying and selling is small and hence the changes have gone unnoticed by many. Most others only manage big sides and god forbid they take on a small side :eek:, they usually leave within a few games. The ones being punished most are the small club managers who don't partake in mass buyng and selling and arguably are playing the game as was intended by the gameworld economy improvements.

The suspicions were there from all that this may well be the eventual scenario with these changes when the idea was first suggested. The whole game economies concept was to even out sides. But the risk was there of taking it too far to the other side and inadvertently punishing the small sides and that is what has happened. The point is, that with a little tinkering this could still work the way it was intended. But how it is now, I can't say it's serving it's intended purpose :(

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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

The point is' date=' that with a little tinkering this could still work the way it was intended. But how it is now, I can't say it's serving it's intended purpose :([/quote']

thats exactly what i think !

teams should make a small profit on home games not millions like before but maybe 500k or 250k after home / away games for the biggest and best clubs.

not making a loss i think small adjustments to the number side to this sm change will make it a good one and not a bad change B)

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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

I have not noticed this any setup I am in. Is it because it happens after a new season starts. I have plenty of lesser sides in EC's but am still managing at the moment. I operate close to the line, but I always have players ready to go if I am forced into debt. In my favourite setup, the one I really micromanage, my average attendance for Huddersfield Town is 17,447 for a 24,500 stadium in division 3. That has always been the norm, and I have 103 players, 27 loaned out. My wages are 725k, so I am okay now. But I will just have to manage if I start getting 8,000 a home game. I won't be leaving, I'll just be very selective. In fact someone in the setup has an average attendance of 6,736 and a wage bill of 700k and seem to be operating just fine.

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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

I have not noticed this any setup I am in. Is it because it happens after a new season starts. I have plenty of lesser sides in EC's but am still managing at the moment. I operate close to the line' date=' but I always have players ready to go if I am forced into debt. In my favourite setup, the one I really micromanage, my average attendance for Huddersfield Town is 17,447 for a 24,500 stadium in division 3. That has always been the norm, and I have 103 players, 27 loaned out. My wages are 725k, so I am okay now. But I will just have to manage if I start getting 8,000 a home game. I won't be leaving, I'll just be very selective. In fact someone in the setup has an average attendance of 6,736 and a wage bill of 700k and seem to be operating just fine.[/quote']

Dermo,

By comparison, Huddersfield in EC1 is also in Div 3 and after just 2 games is in 13th spot on the table (1 win and 1 loss). There's only been 1 home game to date this season but the crowd was well down on the figure you quoted, in fact 30% lower (12,803). The manager has a squad of 24 players, avg rating of 82 and weekly wages of 429k. :o

Smarty, I'll reply to you when the little fella has gone to bed! lol ;)

Herby

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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

Inspired by you guys, I've taken over at Grimsby Town in Div 3 of EC 2416, having a 10,033-seater stadium (average attendance 6,719). Their current balance is 6.4m, with total player wages of 173,010 pounds. Excluding the TV revenue of 300,000 pounds, they make a profit of 40,656 pounds per home game, which means they lose 132,354 pounds per week. :(

I can now see for myself how hard small clubs are being hit. :eek: And I thought my Dortmund side losing 0.5m per week with an 80,000-seater was unfair... :o

Anyway, there are 12 games to go, and they're in 8th place with a shot at 6th place. I'll let you know how it goes. :)

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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

LOL......

For those that didn't read my earier posts. I have Northwich victoria in a custom league set up which has just had its stadium capacity increased from 4200 to 6624. My first season I was getting on average 4100 to my home games which have obviously dropped now.

Guess what my last gate was at a home game that I won 5 - 0 ..........

516

What a joke.

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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

Lol, it's nuts isn't it?

I think Shels mentioned my situation earlier - i'm Queens Park in GC10, and cos i play at Hampden was used to getting crowds of 50,000 which the club was built around.

Since the change i've seen a 98% drop as my crowds are now 800 - 1100ish :eek:

I'll have to er, downsize slightly as with my current squad i'm losing over a million a week...! :rolleyes:

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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

Lol' date=' it's nuts isn't it?

I think Shels mentioned my situation earlier - i'm Queens Park in GC10, and cos i play at Hampden was used to getting crowds of 50,000 which the club was built around.

Since the change i've seen a 98% drop as my crowds are now 800 - 1100ish :eek:

I'll have to er, downsize slightly as with my current squad i'm losing over a million a week...! :rolleyes:

So will this mean you will have to sell 1 of your 20 forwards :rolleyes:

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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

So will this mean you will have to sell 1 of your 20 forwards :rolleyes:

Maybe even 2 of them...! :eek:B)

If you're implying that there's player-hogging afoot' date=' i can honestly say that as far as i remember i have had [b']zero[/b] offers or enquiries for any of my forwards, and several have been available to loan all season with no takers. Probably because none of them (with the exception of Keirrison) are hyped on the forum and they are just steady 85/86 rated players.

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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

I've been managing Darlington in an English Championship for quite some time now. Over 3 1/2 seasons I've built up a pretty good squad, probably good enough to challenge in division 1 and I've been promoted up to division 2 (in which I'm top).

However, now I'm faced with having to sell a number of my players due to the fact I can't afford the wages anymore due to lower attendances and less gate receipts. So basically, my 1 1/2 years work is going down the drain and I'll have to settle for mid-table mediocrity, or less at this rate!

It's not only the fact the attendances are lower though, I'm pretty sure they've lowered the amount of cash you get from gate reciepts as well, which makes it doubley as bad.

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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

I've been managing Darlington in an English Championship for quite some time now. Over 3 1/2 seasons I've built up a pretty good squad' date=' probably good enough to challenge in division 1 and I've been promoted up to division 2 (in which I'm top).

However, now I'm faced with having to sell a number of my players due to the fact I can't afford the wages anymore due to lower attendances and less gate receipts. So basically, my 1 1/2 years work is going down the drain and I'll have to settle for mid-table mediocrity, or less at this rate!

It's not only the fact the attendances are lower though, I[b']'m pretty sure they've lowered the amount of cash you get from gate reciepts as well, which makes it doubley as bad.[/b]

Correct!!! :(

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Re: Crippling custom game world attendances.

I've thought for a long time there is a problem with attendances within SM and it looks like its getting worse although I have not experienced it myself with the teams I’m managing at the moment. (I don’t use small teams as there is no way of good progression in this game) I was meaning to post ages again what I think the solution is, but have only just got round to it after reading this thread. First off SM and everyone else needs to realise for this game to work well players need to be able to pick up a small team and with a lot of work be able to win the top division in there league. The only way this can happen is, as you progress you get awarded with higher attendances. As you do worse you get punished with lower attendances forcing the sale of top players. Just like it would be in real life although this game will never be like real life and that leads me to my solution to make the game 10000% better.

Every league has a set attendance for every club and you fill your stadium in relation to what position you are in the league that week. This way players that have there team playing well will keep progressing. Players that don't will drop down and this will free up more bigger name clubs and make them less desirable which will fill leagues as every club will have a chance of winning the top league over time. I know this will lead to some unrealistic league like Barcelona in division four etc. But remember this is just a game and players will take up the challenge of taking over a division four Barcelona and making them great again.

Example,

Every League one club = 60,000 capacity

Every League two club = 30,000 capacity

Every League three club = 20,000 capacity

Every League Four Club = 10,000 Capacity

Then depending on where you are in the league that week you will fill you capacity from round 40% to 100%

Example for league 1

1st 60,000

2nd 58,000

3rd 56,000

4th 54,000

5th 52,000

And so on to

20th 22,000

Obviously these figures are just off the top of my head and could be iron out but I think this idea has the basis to take this game from a good game to an excellent game with every league being nearly full.

Also if these figures of capacity are got right this will fix any problems with to much money in the game as if large clubs do poorly they will lose money instead of hoarding it. This will force the sale of there player and make sure cash has value in games so players don’t just want to do swaps. Gold games and crying out for something like this with there static transfer market as no one wants to sell!

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

Revua, I think you're on the right lines there.

It seems to me that Soccer Manager is now an accountancy game, not a football game. The real challenge appears in buying cheap and selling big - that's for CEOs or Chairmen; I for one, would like soccermanager to be about football, not money. This game should be mostly about tactics, players and matches. But at the moment that seems to be just a distraction to the wheeling, dealing and budgetting that dominates.

I'm not sure what the point of trying to make it realistic but also making it so frustrating and counterproductive that customers pack it in completely.

Were the recent changes established so that in-game attendances reflected real-life attendances?

If so, that is idiotic.

I'll add my voice to those who have pointed out that players may have worked for years to get their 89-rated Gillingham team into the top tier, built a good stadium and have 30k attendance, only for them to have that income wiped off their budget sheet in one fell swoop by the capricious finger-taps of an IT boffin.

Give us back our game, please. :(

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

I am pretty new here, so I am not sure who the "official" people here are. I find it strange/rubbish that they have not replied to this thread *If they have replied here/elsewhere and I haven't noticed, I apologise!*

This is a big issue, I just purchased my gold membership for the first time today and joined GC63 as Stockport County, and I would really hate to put in a lot of effort and have it undone by this change.

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

I am pretty new here' date=' so I am not sure who the "official" people here are. I find it strange/rubbish that they have not replied to this thread *If they have replied here/elsewhere and I haven't noticed, I apologise!*

This is a big issue, I just purchased my gold membership for the first time today and joined GC63 as Stockport County, and I would really hate to put in a lot of effort and have it undone by this change.[/quote']

Your hard work wont be undone buddy cos the changes are in place already, just means its going to be really difficult for you to acheive anything.

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

Your hard work wont be undone buddy cos the changes are in place already' date=' just means its going to be really difficult for you to acheive anything.[/quote']

What they have changed the attendances back to normal instead of REALLY low?

By hard work I just meant transfers and stuff, I am lazy, it seems hard :D

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

SM definitely need to look at this. Me and a few mates took on a challenge taking over Huddersfield, Bradford, Rotherham and Darlington mainly due to their decent sized grounds. We're near the end of a season so i'm assuming this will come in once we start our new season. This is going to hit hard when our crowds go down to below 10k. I think Darlington get crowds of about 3k in real life.

Do the attendances actually get higher though once you move up a league?

For example Darlington is div 4 may well only get 3k but if they went all the way through to the premier league, they'd sell out their ground every week.

But do SM still keep their crowds really low?

SM have made challenges like the one we've taken on impossibly hard and fewer small clubs will get taken over. Everyone will just want to manage a top division club.

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

SM definitely need to look at this. Me and a few mates took on a challenge taking over Huddersfield' date=' Bradford, Rotherham and Darlington mainly due to their decent sized grounds. We're near the end of a season so i'm assuming this will come in once we start our new season. This is going to hit hard when our crowds go down to below 10k. I think Darlington get crowds of about 3k in real life.

Do the attendances actually get higher though once you move up a league?

For example Darlington is div 4 may well only get 3k but if they went all the way through to the premier league, they'd sell out their ground every week.

But do SM still keep their crowds really low?

SM have made challenges like the one we've taken on impossibly hard and fewer small clubs will get taken over. Everyone will just want to manage a top division club.[/quote']

It simply doesn't make any sense for soccer manager to work this way. Pointless.

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

SM Are aware of this.

They have responded elsewere as i brought the issue up privatly instead of posting it on here as i wanted answers instead of debate [As i feel this is a non runner for SM to be implementing such a feature],

I did repond to this thread however with my querys after it was brought up in this section, those querys & further querys since have not been answered but I was told that they would review the situation & make amendments if necessary.

That for me is not good enough as the only amendement I feel necaessary in this instance is for each club on the database to be able to use it's faciltys they have obtained in real life [Possibly at the exspense of a better Squad] by generating full houses if playing at a competitve level. [by that i mean the TOP division & being well placed in the league]

For example if you are not in the top division in SM you don't fill your stadium anyway [Noting wrong with that] For example Someone managing Darlington will not fill out his stadium for a absolute Minimum 4 Seasons anwyay.

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