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"Crippling attendances and gate receipts"


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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

A dispicable way to treat your customers' date=' isn't it.[/quote']

ermmm no i disagree actually i do not pay for SM and usually they respond to tickets exceptionally.

quickly, politely and really helpful i am really genuinely impressed by the service and that is why i don't think people should bombard these people with tickets about something they already know about since they really do a great job as it is :)

if you can find another business that treats its free customers as well as sm i would be surprised :P

although we aren't free customers since they get advertising payments i really thing SM are doing a great job :)

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

ermmm no i disagree actually i do not pay for SM and usually they respond to tickets exceptionally.

quickly' date=' politely and really helpful i am really genuinely impressed by the service and that is why i don't think people should bombard these people with tickets about something they already know about since they really do a great job as it is :)

if you can find another business that treats its free customers as well as sm i would be surprised :P

although we aren't free customers since they get advertising payments i really thing SM are doing a great job :)[/quote']

I mean closing the ticket and ignoring the feedback.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

Not really said much about this yet, was awaiting to see how it effected my teams.

So here goes

GC5

IFK Göteborg

Champions last season , sit in 9th place so far this season

Home attendances so far

9,665 ...This game was between last seasons top 2

10,471... Champions Cup game

9,988

9,840

7,726...2nd round of Shield

8,784... Played this team in the charity shield and got 85,094

7,846

8,636...Champions Cup game

7,249

8,388... Q/F of the shield

9,308

Now the home attendances of the real Göteborg

18,276

17,683

9,390

7,088

12,351

15,267

10,168

9,716

7,683...Europa league

10,872

So if we are going by real life attendances, where is my 18k and 17k crowds ?

Will look at the rest of my teams later and see if they work out right.

Also something i noticed tonight is .... cup crowds

My Levante had a shield q/f game and only got a crowd of 5,365(not sure if this is right or not for a q/f game in spain)

My Leeds played at Dagenham & Redbridge in the 2nd round of the shield and the crowd was only 1,305 (im 100% sure Leeds would take more then that to the game)

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

My CSKA Moscow is down to 15k, even though I was promoted, and had crowds above 65k last season. And what is the point in expanding the stadiums of very small teams? I am finishing a season with my Huddersfield Town in my favourite season, EC106. I am a win for sure of definite promotion, but playoffs beckon anyway. (I would prefer the toss of a coin). My average is 17,679, from a stadium of 24,500. I should have been looking at an average of 19/20k next season. Do you know what I will be looking at? Also Milwall in the same setup asked me for info on their likely attendance in division 2 will be?

Also, will you get a bit more if you are in a higher division than your team in real life. I see Cheltenham in division 2 with 11k from an expanded 15k stadium. Will you get bigger crowds than real life from your success and promotion within the game world?

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

On a similar note to Dermo' date=' what would tranmere rovers average attendence next season in div 3 (maybe div 2) be? Thanks[/quote']

I think the answer is that no one really knows. My Northwich Victoria Team is in serious trouble. Ive worked really hard buying and selling within my means relying on good young players that will rise to subsidise my TF budget. Now im in a position to have to sell players to to meet the wage bill. I just can't understand the logic is this thinking. How is anyone ever going to progress with a smaller team and what on earth is the point in increasing stadium sizes if your not going to get anyone at your games? My chairman can increase it all he like but i'm sorry buddy it ain't going to make a difference.

Check out my finances, i'm only on turn 14. At the rate im losing money I stand to be about 8m in dept by season end. Its a joke.

NW.jpg

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

Dellinger,

I have Derry City in division 4 of 4 in one of my game worlds.

I've managed to increase the average rating of the team from 76 to 78 in about 15 turns.

in terms of transfers; I have spent £5,075,000 and received in £4,959,000; my wage bill has not increased.

I have actually made a £3m profit this season.

And all of this on an average attendance is 3,038 in a 7,700 stadium.

I don't know what specifically I've been doing, but it appears to be working in the short term.

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

Maurice, that's nice but how much profit have you made selling players?

Anyway, as you said it's possible to do as you do, however that defeats the purpose of the game [or one of the purposes of the game] in having players that are only rated 78 etc..

I rekon if you have a team full of 80 rated players and not much debt and very little youth for the future you would not be in the green and would have to sell.

That thinking form SM just defies the whole point of even taking over such clubs,

For poeple that ask do in-game performences havce an impact on attendences, the answer is yes..

but it's minamal, infact it's almost non existent & even iof such was too be implemented properly it would mean you would ahve toi get that [substained] sucess in the first place on crowds ofa few hundred to a thousand.

So basically it's a non runner in itsself..

Regarding stadium upgrades, this isa feature i would have asked SM to remove if i wasn't convinced SM would remove the real life attendences feature.. the reason being is that clubs can't get higher real attendences higher than their stadium capacity, for example huddersfield town can't get attendences of 30k in real life as there stadium is only 24k in real life.. so there is no point exspanding anyones stadium in game...[/b]

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

Dellinger' date='

I have Derry City in division 4 of 4 in one of my game worlds.

I've managed to increase the average rating of the team from 76 to 78 in about 15 turns.

in terms of transfers; I have spent £5,075,000 and received in £4,959,000; my wage bill has not increased.

I have actually made a £3m profit this season.

And all of this on an average attendance is 3,038 in a 7,700 stadium.

I don't know what specifically I've been doing, but it appears to be working in the short term.[/quote']

I agree with your sentiment but my point is that last season I had a manageble team as I had bought sensibly 75 - 78 rated players tied them up on long term deals so that when they increased I wouldnt have to pay the inflated wages. My gate reciepts were at the time covering my overheads so I was breaking even, If I sold a player it would be at a profit and I would use the funds to buy more up and coming players.

Now i'm losing about £240k every turn. Not just when I play away but EVERY turn. Its unfair and I thing SM have made an error in judgement with this. my NV team is in a custom set up which was made especially for building teams up from the bottom. There are only teams in there that are from the lower English FL everyone Ive spoken to from that league is in the same poistion. If I were the guy that paid to set the league up I'd ask for my money back.

I really am struggling to find the logic around this decision. I would have though SM would want a varied experience were all teams if managed properly could challenge the top. With this theris just no way on earth this could happen. I just dont get it.

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

Is anyone able to tell me when this came into force.

As I have only just noticed it.

My story is Im in a custom league of 2 divisions of minnows.

My team however has one of the biggest stadium capacities.

Im Thanda Royal Zula with 52,000 stadium capacity.

Over the last 2 seasons I have been near the top of division one, and have enjoyed high attendences, and as a result I have been rakin the money in.

I even managed to win division one on goal difference a few weeks ago :)

I have built my squad up to include several 90+ players and have a wage bill of 739k. Im guessing I had gate receipts of over 1mil every home game.

So the new season starts the first game attendance is 1,500 (instead of the normal 50,000) and my gate receipts from the opening game are 83k :(

To stay afloat finanically, am I seriously gonna have to sell half my squad?!?!?

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

Is anyone able to tell me when this came into force.

As I have only just noticed it.

My story is Im in a custom league of 2 divisions of minnows.

My team however has one of the biggest stadium capacities.

Im Thanda Royal Zula with 52' date='000 stadium capacity.

Over the last 2 seasons I have been near the top of division one, and have enjoyed high attendences, and as a result I have been rakin the money in.

I even managed to win division one on goal difference a few weeks ago :)

I have built my squad up to include several 90+ players and have a wage bill of 739k. Im guessing I had gate receipts of over 1mil every home game.

So the new season starts the first game attendance is 1,500 (instead of the normal 50,000) and my gate receipts from the opening game are 83k :(

To stay afloat finanically, am I seriously gonna have to sell half my squad?!?!?[/quote']

I know sucks dont it.

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

Another thing i've just noticed is that there is a big difference between GC's and Customs, for example:

GC10: Queens Park (me, D1, current SPL champs and Shield winners) v Celtic (last seasons Cup winners), attendance = 1,186

Pie & Bovril custom: Queens Park (D1, newly promoted) v East Fife (me, also newly promoted), attendance = 6,383

I appreciate SM may be thinking GC's should be tougher and more realistic, but it's just getting really stupid now when Queens Park v East Fife in one set-up pulls in almost six times as many fans as Queens Park v Celtic in another :mad: (remembering both matches were D1 games).

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  • 2 weeks later...

Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

Just to update, I've sent this ticket to SM suggestions and am now waiting for a reply of some sort...

Dear Soccer Manager,

I'd like to congratulate you on completely ruining my custom game world with your idiotic decision to implement real life attendances to the game. I created my custom game world based on the fact that each club had similar sized stadia of around 50,000 capacity. Now that you've introduced real life attendances some teams barely get 5,000 average attendance whilst others are getting 50,000. In other words, you've completely destroyed my game world as the economics are ruined.

In other custom game worlds I'm currently participating in, teams have built up their squads and stadia sizes have increased over many seasons. The teams in those custom game worlds aren't of high reputation (i.e. Irish teams, lower league teams) so as soon as you implemented realistic attendances teams went from getting match day returns which would cover wage costs to going in to massive debt within the space of a few weeks. I built my squad knowing that being a division 1 team with a stadia capacity of around 20,000 I could afford to have a 500k+ a game wage bill due to me filling my stadium for each home match. Now I'm pretty much being told I'm not allowed to have the players I currently have, players which I've bought over quite a long period of time, because all of a sudden I can't afford them.

It's not only custom game worlds that are affected though. You're basically giving more power to the most popular clubs which already have large stadia. You're giving smaller clubs absolutely no chance of ever progressing because they'll never be able to afford a squad which can challenge as those teams are unpopular in real life and so will always have poor attendances.

I've been playing SM for 1 1/2 years and this is the only time when I've seriously considered quitting. Take this as constructive criticism and remove realistic attendances from the game a.s.a.p. as its affecting mine and many other players gaming experience in a negative way.

Thanks for your time.

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

Well I sent a similar ticket about the income decreases in gate receipts, and how there is hardly any income now with EVIDENCE, yet they totally ignored my ticket and closed it, no reason why either :(

I proved that with a decent side (West Ham), they couldn't support 11 players of a 90 rating without gong into debt, yet you need another 10 players to get the min squad size of 21 :eek:

crazy stuff

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

Well I sent a similar ticket about the income decreases in gate receipts' date=' and how there is hardly any income now with EVIDENCE, yet they totally ignored my ticket and closed it, no reason why either :(

I proved that with a decent side (West Ham), they couldn't support 11 players of a 90 rating without gong into debt, yet you need another 10 players to get the min squad size of 21 :eek:

crazy stuff

Why would West Ham be a problem anyway? In real life they sell out most home games, so on SM their attendances should replicate this surely?

It's probably just a case of you having too many good players. I manage a Stoke side (28k capacity) and i manage ok by buying and selling risers. It's the only way smaller clubs survive.

Queens Park are a problem yes, but West ham shouldn't be.

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

Biscuits, what he was saying was that even with 11 90 rated players he could not bring in enough funds every 2nd match to keep paying wages.. let alone have a squad size of another minimum 10 players on top.

& Thats with West Ham Not An Irish Team or less supported teams like millwall etc etc.

I pointed this basic pointless fact to SM & they're just not interested in changing this...

The point i gave SM was for my shelbourne side [Low attendence side] to have 21 80 rated players :eek::mad::P it's basic bloddy maths...

happy gaming everyone.

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

I just started as Carlisle Utd's new manager;

So the way attendance works will have nothing to do with how I do on this game and will instead reflect the attendances Carlisle get in real life. Is that right?

It does not seem right to me- ATTENDANCES SHOULD REFLECT HOW WELL YOUR TEAM IS DOING ON THIS GAME. a simple formula based on overall team rating, current league position and amount of games played this season should do the trick.

If you keep the current way of working out attendances then you may as well ban promotion for teams with low attendances and ban them from getting quality new signings. Also don't forget to ban teams like this from being managed as no-one is going to enjoy playing them in the long run.

Sort it out soon please SM please please please please please please please etc.

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

The whole point of taking on a lower league club is to set yourself the challenge of taking that club up the divisions, increasing the attendance, bettering the squad and improving the stadium as this happens.

Real life attandances for a club say Hereford in English div 2 cannot hope to match the virtusl attendances of the SM version of Hereford who have progressed to the Championship. So the possibility and challenge of raising the lower league club has been dealt a serious blow by SM.

Buying & selling risers to stay solvent is something most lower league managers do to make money & progress, but to do this just to stand still...thats no fun for anyone in a vitual world.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

I never saw this thread otherwise i would of come on and had a say a while back, wouldnt of seen it if Shels didnt have a link to it in his sign.

Iv got a few things to say, many of which have probably been said already and will so again but i want my two pence worth.

1) Soccermanager, is a online football manager GAME it is not a simulation of being a real football manager in the real world, meaning not everything has to be realisitc ( not that the attendances are in some cases as herby showed us all ).

2) Not everything on this game is realisitc, so why add this ? if Sm wanted to argue that they plan to make the game as realistic as possible then you would have to implement hundreds of other features, no GC's ( because they dont exist in real life ), no customs ( because custom lags dont exist ), im being petty here but you get the point, there has always been a balance between realism and playability on SM, and the new attendaces have been VERY detremental to the playability of the game

3) CONTRADICTION AFTER CONTRADICTION.

Im talking about features added that contradict each other, the three in question are.

1)Attendances

2)Stadium Increases

3)Bugeting (When the chairman came along and took vasts amount of money and refuses to invest as much in the club)

Each and everyone one of those contradicts each other, SM introduced stadium increases to give the small teams who perform succesfully and climb up the division a means to carry on as their "real life" stadiums are not big enough to sustain the success on this game. This is essence was a attempt to bridge the gap between small / smaller clubs and the big clubs ( rather clubs with big stadiums, who tend to be in the higher divisions and be the best teams ). GOOD EFFORT SM

Then came the Attendance re structure, so for what ever smaller team earnt a stadium increase, due to their real life status SM changed that clubs attendance figures accordingly, always ALWAYS to the detremant of the club, SM completely disregarded their current SM status and for a few this could be alot higher than the clubs real life status eg in Division 1, with a Swindon etc. What i dont understand is, SM championed themselves after the stadia increase saying it will help smaller teams, added cometivness to the league, bridge the gap etc, only for this new feature ( if i can call it a feature, features tend to be good things ) to come along, and not only reduce the attendances under the original capacity of the stadium but completely render useless the stadium increase which was put their to help out financially but due to the low numbers of attendants you can NEVER EVER reap the rewards, just because you chose to manage Huddersfield instead of Manchester United.

I understand that in the lower division on SM, attendances should be lower, but you CANNOT do it based on where that team is in real life without hurting the game and more importantly the managers who virtually make SM by taking over the smaller teams meaning we dont have setups more empty than they already are. they say they want to help, then they add something that prevent the original helpful idea from working :confused: good effort . . . . . . . NOT.

The final feature in GC's, or what ever it was, is where the chairman removed money from most teams, added it to a few small ones ( on occasion ) but accross the board money was taken from teams, admittedly they took more from the bigger teams but it doesnt matter as they have bigger stadiums to get that money back, leading back to the original argument, SM this did not help the game economy like you said it would, it simply reset it, and now for example in GC40 i had last week 60 + million with a Manchester United :/ fair, i think not.

You should base attendances on real life division, not the individual clubs themselves.

EG - Look at the premiership / La Liga / Seria A, whatever, apply those attendance % to division one on SM, ( eg on average 90% of all stadiums are filled each home game ), then lower down each tier ? increase it slightly with good patches of form, and decrease it with bad. Just sort it out !

NOW

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

The fact that this thread has rumbled on for so long and no "official" word has came back says a whole lot I think.

Indeed,

I'll PM Ste now, and ask him to come on and have a look. Unlike many of threads criticising SM, this hasnt turned into a slate SM thread. Its a well constructive argument against a feature that is hurting the game.

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