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"Crippling attendances and gate receipts"


Omnium
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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

I am losing about 180K a week with my Histon team.

Histon has a stadium capacity of just 3,800 and the secret to buy risers as cheap as possible and sell them on at massive profits is the key.

eg Otamendi bought for 300K and sold for £9M

Paulo Henrique bought for 10K and transfer listed today for over £6M

The massive profits I make more than cover any negative weeks in terms of wage budget etc.

I also think its important that you play in a league with clubs like Barca and Man Utd playing as you eventually get to share TV revenue, no use being part of a set up where you just share the TV spoils from Cochester and Watford etc.

I was given just 1.8M as my transfer budget 3-4 months ago and where my seasons are 18 games long, seasons turn over every 9 weeks.

Squad now worth £81 million + in just 4 months from vertually zero so far as I am concerned I am more than happy with the current system.

I don't want or expect to have a squad bought off the shelf with the likes of Maxwell, Marcelo, Diarra etc, I accept I would definitely not be able to afford the wages at present.

Please keep the current system as I am making more profit and TV money then I ever did in the past. :)

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

I am losing about 180K a week with my Histon team.

Histon has a stadium capacity of just 3' date='800 and the secret to buy risers as cheap as possible and sell them on at massive profits is the key.

eg Otamendi bought for 300K and sold for £9M

Paulo Henrique bought for 10K and transfer listed today for over £6M

The massive profits I make more than cover any negative weeks in terms of wage budget etc.

I also think its important that you play in a league with clubs like Barca and Man Utd playing as you eventually get to share TV revenue, no use being part of a set up where you just share the TV spoils from Cochester and Watford etc.

I was given just 1.8M as my transfer budget 3-4 months ago and where my seasons are 18 games long, seasons turn over every 9 weeks.

Squad now worth £81 million + in just 4 months from vertually zero so far as I am concerned I am more than happy with the current system.

I don't want or expect to have a squad bought off the shelf with the likes of Maxwell, Marcelo, Diarra etc, I accept I would definitely not be able to afford the wages at present.

Please keep the current system as I am making more profit and TV money then I ever did in the past. :)[/quote']

That's nice for you - but are you playing the game to make lots of profits or to have an enjoyable soccer simulation experience.

if your answer is the first, I suggest you go play the stock market. :)

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

I also think its important that you play in a league with clubs like Barca and Man Utd playing as you eventually get to share TV revenue' date=' no use being part of a set up where you just share the TV spoils from Cochester and Watford etc.

[/quote']

Probably the most idiotic post of the thread so far, congratulations. Basically what you're saying is that there's no point having teams in the game below the top tier because the TV revenue isn't good enough. So unknowingly you've actually made it more clear about the current failings of SM.

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

I am losing about 180K a week with my Histon team.

Histon has a stadium capacity of just 3' date='800 and the secret to buy risers as cheap as possible and sell them on at massive profits is the key.

eg Otamendi bought for 300K and sold for £9M

Paulo Henrique bought for 10K and transfer listed today for over £6M

The massive profits I make more than cover any negative weeks in terms of wage budget etc.

I also think its important that you play in a league with clubs like Barca and Man Utd playing as you eventually get to share TV revenue, no use being part of a set up where you just share the TV spoils from Cochester and Watford etc.

I was given just 1.8M as my transfer budget 3-4 months ago and where my seasons are 18 games long, seasons turn over every 9 weeks.

Squad now worth £81 million + in just 4 months from vertually zero so far as I am concerned I am more than happy with the current system.

I don't want or expect to have a squad bought off the shelf with the likes of Maxwell, Marcelo, Diarra etc, I accept I would definitely not be able to afford the wages at present.

Please keep the current system as I am making more profit and TV money then I ever did in the past. :)[/quote']

Buddy I think your missing the point and clearly you have a very selfish attitude towards the issue faced my many SM players. Please re read the thread and understand the issues faced before making stupid posts like this as they are not helpful.

The point is why should I have to 'play' the ratings when I had a manageable squad with the finances coming in only to have them removed through no fault of my own.

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

Playing the ratings can only ever work for a few clubs in each setup because there simply isnt hundreds of big risers to go around for each and every team is there ? you have completelky mis understood the point not to mention if SM did go back to their old ways you would make more money, so why would you want to keep it like this ? :confused:

I PM'd ste and asked him to come look at this thread, it seems its here to stay, although on custom gameworlds, there could eventually be a option to choose between fantasy and real life attendance.

We should continue to argue the point, or at the very least get them to tweak the current system.

One person should create a thread with all the reasons and justifications from this thread, and there should be a public poll, and literally whoever wants the old style implemented should just sign there name etc.

Post this link on facebook on the soccermanager page, whatever, it needs to be changed

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

I PM'd ste and asked him to come look at this thread' date=' it seems its here to stay, although on custom gameworlds, there could eventually be a option to choose between fantasy and real life attendance.[/quote']

Whilst I feel that most damage has been done to custom game worlds from the changes made, I fail to see how it's had a positive effect on all game worlds.

If somebody with a bit of authority gave me reasons to show that the changes they've made have actually improved the gaming experience then I'm all "eyes".

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

Probably the most idiotic post of the thread so far' date=' congratulations. Basically what you're saying is that there's no point having teams in the game below the top tier because the TV revenue isn't good enough. So unknowingly you've actually made it more clear about the current failings of SM.[/quote']

Thanks. :D

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

I've talked to Ste In another thread [Not viewable to the general public] & i've given all i can give, pointing out the basic financial impacts this change makes to certain teams.. Basic potential income vs wages of 21, 80 rated players :rolleyes: i did not even compenstate for transfer fees, investment buys etc etc etc

He has responded several times but i've had no response since my last post on the matter.

All I say is that he's not stupit [At least i hope he's not] he's well aware that anyone managing Shelbourne can't afford even 21, 80 rated players [Not botherd calculating whether they could afford even 21, 75 rated players but i'm depressed enough as it is..] :P

Sadly i must honestly say i have major reservasions on were SM want to take this game [iE Just wanting people to control/BUY The top teams] As this is what makes them money and really 99% of the database is only really taking up space & is only there to make the game look real....

But i mean poeple that control "small teams" do aswell control/purchess top teams anyway, so i can;t see why SM want to make it impossible for smaller teams to even remotly compete agianst the worlds best..

I'm just confuzzkleds as to why SM are continuing with this stupit idea.

@ Adam.. Your idea would not work as then smaller teams like Shelbourne would still only be getting 1k 1.5k to games as thats their real life leagues avg attendence, So this would not change a thing for most of the small clubs playing in small leagues in real life as these teams In SM must still compete against teams from other bigger countries/leagues etc.

The way it was before was grand, were attendence levels rose and fell based on your division and league posisition..

The only part of the game this is actually become benificial to is in some of the smaller standard setups like the irish and imparticular the australian championship, As it has leveld out attendences alot more espcially in the irish championship, but i still can't see why clubs can't use their clubs facilties [stadia] to thier maximum potential & the fact that if ya wna be realistic about it woudl fill these stadiums out if all the worlds best players were on show...

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

Why would my idea not work ?

Lets say on average in real life EPL clubs / division one

fill up there stadiums by 90%

so whatever club is in division one on SM, has at least 90% of there stadium full every home game = money :)

Then drop it league by league, add in other factors such as form etc

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

When a new GC or english setup gets created then its fine if everyone starts with their reallife attendances but then like lots of people hav said the better u do with the team the higher u attendances should be. I cant see why this cant be implemented like that. If u hav a 10000stadium real fans 4000 and u always finish in midtable then u cant expect increase but if u get promoted it should increase. I dont hav the stats but when Hull got promoted threw the divisions there attendances surely increased after each promotion. U would hav to wait almost 1 year(a season) in real life to see any increase/decrease in attendances which surely is unfair and to long to wait

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

Why would my idea not work ?

----------

@ Adam.. Your idea would not work as then smaller teams like Shelbourne would still only be getting 1k 1.5k to games as thats their real life leagues avg attendence' date=' So this would not change a thing for most of the small clubs playing in small leagues in real life as these teams In SM must still compete against teams from other bigger countries/leagues etc.[/quote']

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

I think the main point raised in this thread is 100% accurate in my view…it makes a lot of teams almost unmanageable (unless you really want to persevere with them) as teams like Real Madrid, Man U, Barca, Inter etc will have an even bigger advantage than before. This has been a massive error of judgement by SM, and its no wonder that a lot of game worlds (especially World Championship ones) are emptying out fast, what’s the point anymore? Unless you manage the teams with the top attendances, be prepared to incur a lot of crippling debt, and fast…

Here’s hoping they change it back or at least make some alterations to it, as a lot of the fun in the game (for me at least) was going teams like Sau Paulo, CKSA Moscow etc and trying to upset the really big guns, doesn’t look like that will be happening again anytime soon!

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

Playing the ratings can only ever work for a few clubs in each setup because there simply isnt hundreds of big risers to go around for each and every team is there ?

Actually there are tons of AVAILABLE risers in EVERY setup. In normal setups there are certainly enough to finance about 80 teams. Only in gold championships there could in theory be a shortage but there isn't because not many people buy risers except for the ones that they read about on the forums.

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

I painstakingly invested 3 season's worth of hard work into an EC West Ham, in my first season (second in the setup) I took them from a second division side without their real life best players to the 1st Division via the playoffs, and through trades, money spinning, youth investment, Cup success and a bit of luck, I have turned them into a top team, and a few of my loaned out players are Bojan, Chygrynskiy, Sagna and (formerly) Neuer. It's safe o say that I have 2 massive squads, totalling about 70 players worth in excess of £250m, and with a massive wage bill in excess of £1.4m; but I was reasonably comfortable financially, with money spinners and the English Shield earning me a fair bit.

But then, over a few months, my dream fell apart. All of my 90+ rated players' wages went from 40-50k to 59-80k to secure them on five year contracts, all in all it added nearly half as much again to my wage bill, then SM proceeded to enforce 'Real life' attendances, and my money dropped from taking nearly £1m from home games to taking a mere £300k. Suffice to say my transfer budget is non existent, and I find myself nearly 30 million pounds in the red. Recent departees from Upton Park include Maxi Rodriguez, Christian Chivu, Igor Akinfeev and my first acquisition for the club (then sub 90) Pato who top scored in the division, just because I thought I could turn a profit at a home game. I still lost nearly 800k. Towards the end, I contacted the Fulham manager, a friend I made though the setup, who'd recently quit it. He did so for the same reasons as me.

I traded that West Ham for a new Real Madrid in a Spanish championship just before they lost Sneijder and Robben. :(

I was gutted to lose my West Ham side, but sadly thousands of managers have been dealt an unfair hand by this addition to SM. It's just furthered the gap between big clubs and the small clubs, with the ability to make money without relying on Cup Success or Chairman investment non existant. :(

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

HI Guys

Having taken my time to read through all the posts in this thread today, I felt compelled to put a more in depth comment on it, than my previous one from earlier. :)

Basically I’m really frustrated for all the players in the game who have spent massive amounts of time and effort to build up their relatively small teams from nothing…to suddenly see all that hard work evaporate before their eyes with the introduction of this “realistic attendance policy” :mad::eek: that the SM staff seem to be operating with now.

In response to what revua said a few pages ago in this thread (about how the league formats could be structured), I really think they were onto something there, as the current system is totally doomed to failure as far as I can see.

Do the game developers really want everyone to go Man Utd, Barca, Real Madrid, AC Milan etc? As that’s what will end up happening with nearly all other teams in a league controlled by computers, as id expect most people to realise they are fighting a losing battle with only one outcome…success at huge levels of cost that are practically unsustainable, unless of course, you have one of the above mentioned footballing super powers behind you, or you are a fantastic wheeler dealer. :rolleyes:

I see this happen year after year in the real life Champions league, with the same few teams dominating proceedings, over and over again. Half the fun for me was that soccer manger offered you the chance to mount a challenge to these teams over time.

Surely if the playing field was a bit more level in the game, (like it used to be) then more people would be likely to stay in a game World as they know that expansion and progression are possible (with even a relatively small club stadium, like Monaco’s ground for instance) in the long run?

Obviously this approach would not be for everyone one, as a lot of people do want as much success and as fast as possible, (and there is nothing wrong with that, it just doesn’t appeal to me), but there is a great sense of satisfaction and enjoyment for getting the success through adversity, in taking a small side to the very top. :D

But unfortunately at the moment, that’s a very distant dream, which has little chance of becoming reality again for a lot of game members. :(

Sorry if I have laboured the point here guys, but I am just really frustrated (for all of you) that a great little game has been really spoiled by such a poorly conceived idea…

And to think I was just about to purchase a gold membership!!! :)

(Glad that I read this great thread before hand!)

Here’s hoping that the developers see sense eventually and listen to the requests of the members, before its too late… :mad:

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

Hi Guys,

We have been reading this thread and SM Dev Ste has been keeping the SM team up to date.

Firstly I would like to say that we are currently reviewing the situation and have immediately realised that Custom Game worlds that have been created with small teams have suffered.

We are looking at changing this very shortly.

Secondly a few myths have been posted in this thread. Attendances are based on real life attendances but as clubs go up the divisions their stadiums increase and so do their attendances. They tend to an average of the league that they are in if their real life attendance is below that league. An example of this would be that if Darlington in an English Champ got to Division 1 they would have their stadium increased towards 20-25k and then would have their attendance tended towards the division 1 average which is about 32k.

Now, we know there have been problems with particular clubs which based on the old system gained an artificial advantage, Queens Park was one such team as were others. The old system based the whole financial success of the club basically on its stadium size. If its stadium was large it started off with more cash and was sold out every week if it was in the top division and earned vast amounts every week.

Another myth is that the big clubs are now better off and in the old system the big clubs were worse off. This however is fundamentally untrue. What few people have failed to realise is that their TV revenue has increased greatly. The new system has made things a lot more balanced and fairer.

Take for example Man Utd and lets say Darlington, after Darlington have managed to get into Division 1. (I'll use simple numbers to highlight the issue)

In the old system Man Utd would have earned at a home game £900k (70k tickets) in gate receipts (GR) and £100k in TV revenue a total of £1m. Darlington with a full stadium would have got £300k (20k tickets) in GR and £100k in TV revenue a total of £400k. Therefore Man U earning more than twice as much as Darlington.

In the new system what we have done is reduce the % of revenue a club earns through its gate receipts and replace it with TV revenue, which is evenly distributed across the division.

So in the new system Man Utd earn at a home game £450k (70k tickets but sold at a smaller price) in gate receipts (GR) and £500k in TV revenue a total of £950k. Darlington earn £100k (10k tickets but sold at a smaller price) in GR and £500k in TV revenue a total of £600k. Therefore the gap has dramatically reduced for Darlington from £600k to just £350k.

These are not exact figures but illustrate how the system is designed to work. Instead of clubs gaining most of the income through gate receipts which benefited the Man Utds and Barcelonas, clubs now get most of their money through TV revenue which is equally divided amongst the clubs in the league, making it a lot more equal and fair.

One of the major problems is that everyone wants their club to compete with Barcelona or Man Utd. If this is the case then all that happens (and did so in the old system) is that every club becomes massively wealthy and hyper inflation occurs. Money becomes worthless and we had massive problems with no one selling players because they didn't need the cash.

Some people complaining have legitimate complaints, people in Custom Game Worlds, and we will look and fix this immediately. Others saying they have squads of 70+ players, assets worth £250m, with players like Bojan and Sagna out on loan can't complain that they are making a loss. They will have to sell a few assets to balance the books and live within realistic means.

Going back to the old system is not only biased towards teams with large stadiums, it also causes huge inflation and ruins the Game World that way.

One option could be to remove the finances from all Standard and Custom Game Worlds and just let the Chairman set a transfer budget each season, Custom owners could decide the degree of investment. That way the manager is removed from the finances and attendances don't matter and the manager has money to spend each year, all squads will improve at more or less the same rate.

I'll finish with re-stating what I first put. We are currently fully reviewing the finances and attendances and will draw more conclusions shortly.

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

Secondly a few myths have been posted in this thread. Attendances are based on real life attendances but as clubs go up the divisions their stadiums increase and so do their attendances. They tend to an average of the league that they are in if their real life attendance is below that league. An example of this would be that if Darlington in an English Champ got to Division 1 they would have their stadium increased towards 20-25k and then would have their attendance tended towards the division 1 average which is about 32k.

Now' date=' we know there have been problems with particular clubs which based on the old system gained an artificial advantage, [b']Queens Park was one such[/b] team as were others. The old system based the whole financial success of the club basically on its stadium size. If its stadium was large it started off with more cash and was sold out every week if it was in the top division and earned vast amounts every week.

This is how i understood it to work, however in GC10 there is only one Scottish Division so my Queens Park can never be pomoted for attendances to go up.

Therefore the average attendance of D1 crowds should apply (12-14,000-ish) yet instead (despite sending a couple of support tickets) i still receive real-life attendances (957 in my last match :rolleyes:).

I'm not complaining about not getting 50,000+ crowds, all i'm looking for is what you've stated above to be applied :)

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

We need to work something out;

You need 21 players in a squad, minimum. Now let's consider that the first 11 consists of 90-94 rated players who each require £60,000 per game in wages, the rest being 85-89 rated who require £21,000 per game;

11 x £60,000 = £660,000

10 x £21,000 = £210,000

£660,000 + £210,000 = £870,000 per game.

Now I'm going to use my Arsenal team who I manage in division 1 of an English championship as an example here. From a home game I make £1,950,000 through gate reciepts, tv revenue, sponsorship deals and merchandising combined. I lose £240,000 of that for ground maintenance so that brings my total income from a home game down to around £1,750,000. At the start of the newest season I was given £4.5m from season tickets which over the course of 38 games gives an extra £240,000 per home game which coincidentally eliminates the ground maintenance losses. This brings my total income back up to £1,950,000.

Because we don't get paid anything for playing an away match the wage bill is basically doubled to compensate for the single income for home games. If we use the above theory that I'd have 11 90-94 rated players and 10 85-89 rated players in my squad then this would mean to cover wages I'd need to be earning £870,000 x 2 = £1,740,000. This means that Arsenal can just barely make enough cash to have a starting 11 of 90-94 rated players with 10 85-89 rated players in reserve.

Now Derby County on the other hand, well, I also manage them in division 1 of an English championship. I basically scrape the barrel for £1,300,000 per home game which means I'll never EVER be able to afford a team consisting of 90-94 players in each position without going in to debt unless my 10 other players are rated below 65 or something similar. Infact, just for 11 x 90-94 players it'd cost me £1,320,000 over 2 games so I wouldn't even be able to afford that. It's not even like Derby have that small a stadium.

Alright, so I haven't taken in to account prize money from the previous season, cup games or chairman injection but that money isn't guaranteed. Regarding prize money it depends on what position you finish. I finished 6th in division 1 of an English championship recently and recieved £4,500,000 which only equates to an extra £240,000 over 2 games anyway. Chairman's injection doesn't always happen and is a bit hit and miss. As for cup games you could easily get knocked out in the first round of both cups and if they're both away games against clubs with small stadia then income would be miniscule! The risk of losing in the cup has more chance of increasing for the fact we can barely scrape enough cash together to afford a 21 man squad!

I've used the English championship game world as an example here but I'm pretty sure it's similar for all standard game worlds. As for custom game worlds I think the owner should be given a choice whether or not he/she wants to have realistic attendances/chairman injections which is pretty much what's already been said by Dev Andy.

My advice, increase TV revenue for all standard game worlds by a considerable margin and then that way the bigger clubs will recieve the same amount as the smaller clubs and gate receipts will stay the same. We need a bit of breathing space because the changes made have been harsh to say the very least, especially on game worlds which have already been running for a considerable amount of time.

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

The old system based the whole financial success of the club basically on its stadium size. If its stadium was large it started off with more cash and was sold out every week if it was in the top division and earned vast amounts every week.

Going back to the old system is not only biased towards teams with large stadiums' date=' it also causes huge inflation and ruins the Game World that way.[/b']

No going back to the bad old days, pleased to hear.

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

Omnium - That is eactly right what you have said with regards to Asrenal and Derby. Arsenal (one of the biggest clubs in the world) can afford a team full of International supersatrs and turn a small profit each week and then receive prize money, Chairman injection and sell players to use as a transfer fund.

Now if Derby were able to do the same natually then you would end up with every team as big as Arsenal without the manager having to do anything. Derby would naturally become as powerful as Arsenal and so would every other team in the Division. What we are saying is that in order for Derby to become as big as Arsenal then the manager is going to have to either do well on the pitch and earn extra money through prize money or do well off the pitch and do well in the transfer market.

Just naturally through TV money and gate receipts letting every club turn into Arsenal and Man Utd does not make for a competetive or interesting game. Sure we don't want it impossible so they can't compete (in the old system) but we don't want it so easy that after 2 seasons every team has 11 superstars and are all rolling in cash. Managers stop wheeling and dealing as they are flush with money and the Game World become boring.

Having said that we are reviewing the situation in depth and TV revenue may be one of the things we increase.

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

A more level playing field is fair for everyone or you end up as you did in the past, that everyone wanted the Barcelona's or Man Utd's and nobody gave a fig about the smaller clubs.

The reason I took over Histon (3,800 stadium cap) was in the past, this club could never have hoped to survive from gate receipts alone. TV money has helped transform this club, where I can now wheeler deal in the transfer market, not get thrashed every week like I did in the past and can be competitive.

Whatever tweeks you carry out, people like me are always going to do well as I read the forums and scout the players.

If, at the end of the day, I receive similar TV money with my Histon team compared to Man Utd, then the difference might end up being the time I spend buying and selling players.

One day, I hope to have Histon in Div 1 beating the likes of Barcelona and Man Utd and Chelsea.

The game is very bias to those with lots of spare time on their hands in terms of making quick profits on transfers. I made £25M in less than 4 months from a starting transfer budget of £1.8M and team worth a few hundred thousand, whether it should be as easy as that for me, not so sure?

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

A more level playing field is fair for everyone or you end up as you did in the past' date=' that everyone wanted the Barcelona's or Man Utd's and nobody gave a fig about the smaller clubs.

The reason I took over Histon (3,800 stadium cap) was in the past, this club could never have hoped to survive from gate receipts alone. TV money has helped transform this club, where I can now wheeler deal in the transfer market, not get thrashed every week like I did in the past and can be competitive.

Whatever tweeks you carry out, people like me are always going to do well as I read the forums and scout the players.

If, at the end of the day, I receive similar TV money with my Histon team compared to Man Utd, then the difference might end up being the time I spend buying and selling players.

One day, I hope to have Histon in Div 1 beating the likes of Barcelona and Man Utd and Chelsea.

The game is very bias to those with lots of spare time on their hands in terms of making quick profits on transfers. I made £25M in less than 4 months from a starting transfer budget of £1.8M and team worth a few hundred thousand, whether it should be as easy as that for me, not so sure?[/quote']

Im sorry are we discussing the issues at hand or your ability to read the forum and make money via other peoples work ?

Which is ofcourse fine, and what i and many others do, but this isnt about showing off about signing risers and money makers, which is pretty much all that you post on here ;)

I think my first judgement towards this feature was rather brash, and without fully understand it, or knowing what it did my argument is flawed at times.

I think this system, with tweaking ( which is what it needs ) could be fantastic.

Regarding real life attendances ? is this based on the club itself ?

Or the league they are in ?

Also is there like a minimum % of the stadia full each game in different division, eg Div 1 90% div 4 70% for eg ??? just wondering.

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

Omnium - That is eactly right what you have said with regards to Asrenal and Derby. Arsenal (one of the biggest clubs in the world) can afford a team full of International supersatrs and turn a small profit each week and then receive prize money' date=' Chairman injection and sell players to use as a transfer fund.

Now if Derby were able to do the same natually then you would end up with every team as big as Arsenal without the manager having to do anything. Derby would naturally become as powerful as Arsenal and so would every other team in the Division. What we are saying is that in order for Derby to become as big as Arsenal then the manager is going to have to either do well on the pitch and earn extra money through prize money or do well off the pitch and do well in the transfer market.

Just naturally through TV money and gate receipts letting every club turn into Arsenal and Man Utd does not make for a competetive or interesting game. Sure we don't want it impossible so they can't compete (in the old system) but we don't want it so easy that after 2 seasons every team has 11 superstars and are all rolling in cash. Managers stop wheeling and dealing as they are flush with money and the Game World become boring.

Having said that we are reviewing the situation in depth and TV revenue may be one of the things we increase.[/quote']

Thanks for the reply John.

Whilst I agree with some of the things you've said, I still believe that Arsenal only just being able to afford a squad of 21 players with just 11 of them being rated 90-94 is a little bit harsh. If you can barely afford to look after your squad to start with then you'll never have any money to spend on transfers (unless there was a cash injection).

I also believe that with standard game worlds there should be an increase in TV revenue so that teams are able to afford the best players available, be it players already at managable clubs or players from external clubs. I don't see the point in having the best players in the world just laying dormant and unable to be utilised for the fact that nobody could ever afford the wages (£200,000 taken from the home game income from a single 95+ rated player for example). Even Arsenal/Man United wouldn't be able to afford those wages with the way things are.

Currently Real Madrid have Ronaldo, Kaka, Casillas, Raul and Van Nistlerooy who are all 95+ rated players (for now). For those 5 players alone that's £1,000,000 every 2 games. If Real Madrid's income per home game is similar to that of Arsenal (estimate as I've never managed Real Madrid) then that'd mean half of the income would be gone on just 5 players wages. Add the 14 other 90-94 rated players and the total wage bill over 2 games comes to a staggering £2,680,000. It gets worse though because after including the 5 other 85-89 rated players that total reaches £2,900,000. Does Real Madrid make that amount of income per home game?

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

Mr.Adamski - The attendances as a starting point use the Club's real life attendance but then depending on the Game World and division they are in etc either go up or down.

Omnium - As your figures show with Arsenal they turn a profit of £210k per week (home and away) so that is roughly £4m during the season, add in a decent cup run in the 2 cups (just income is generated in cup games) £3m, league prize money £5m that means going into a new season, even if the chairman didn't invest and the manager didn't sell a single player they would be £12m better off every season, that is without winning a title or cup.

What do you think this figure should be? £15m a season better off, £20m, £30m? This is basically how much inflation do you want in a Game World?

If every club on average was making £10m when prize money and cups are taken into consideration then that would be £800m a season being pumped into a Game World, season after season. After a few seasons billions extra would be in the Game World from what was in at the start, which would effectively ruin the Game World. Every club would have huge sums of money, no one would need to sell a player and the Game World soon becomes boring.

By restricting the money going into a Game world and distributing it more equally it makes for a fairer more competitive Game World. Instead of every club buying all the external/unmanaged players, clubs have to sell to buy which is a lot more fun than just buying constantly. Instead of Barcelona and Man Utd making vast vast sums of money from their huge stadiums, all clubs take an equal slice of the TV revenue pie for the division and smaller clubs can then compete more.

The new system is a lot fairer but does need reviewing and tweaking. We also recognise changes need to happen in older Custom Game Worlds.

The Real Madrid situation is more of a one off and unusual club than what we would base the Game World economies on. When coming up with the new Game World economies we looked at various leagues as a whole and produced average figures, not basing it on 'freaky financial' clubs like Real Madrid or Man City.

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

I think the point is that in real life the Man Uniteds and the Real Madrids of the world CAN'T afford those big wages, which is why they are millions in debt in real life.

The difference between them and smaller clubs though is that their debt is usually manageable due to the value of their squads/ TV money received etc, ie if they needed to they can instantly raise £10m + by selling a single player.

SM reflects this now by having your transfer kitty separate from your main funds, the only thing i'm not clear on is what the consequences will be if you are always in debt/ or get into huge amounts of debt? :confused:

At the end of the day it shouldn't be as easy to win the league with a smaller team otherwise as said it gets boring very quickly. If you want to have success with a smaller team you'll have to be prepared to put in the extra time and effort, otherwise choose a team from higher up the divisions.

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