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"Crippling attendances and gate receipts"


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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

In the ideal world I would love to be able to increase my stadium capacity.

My Histon team currently has a capacity of 3,800 and for most home games I am pretty much full = 3,750

Even if I had to spend money from my budget in adding extra stadium capacity, it would be worth it in the long run. Even 5% - 10% capacity increase a season would be great, small % if you do well, slightly higher if you win promotion etc.

I am guessing as Histon has no plans to increase stadium cap in real life, I have no chance of getting an increase?

I don't mean to sound selfish but I can only talk from my limited experience of the teams I manage, MK Dons, Histon etc so I have no experience of managing the bigger clubs. All I can say is that I seem to get a fairer deal under the current system.

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

Mr.Adamski - The attendances as a starting point use the Club's real life attendance but then depending on the Game World and division they are in etc either go up or down.

Depending on the gameworld ? can you elaborate on that? as i dont understand why that should matter

Also, your reasoning for originally doing this idea was to stop the clubs with big stadiums getting so much money

Surely now though, your making the team who is followed the most in real life have more money ? which tends to be the bigger clubs with bigger stadiums ?

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

Surely now though, your making the team who is followed the most in real life have more money ? which tends to be the bigger clubs with bigger stadiums ?

I've replied extensively on this. In the old system, this system or whatever system we come up with the bigger clubs will always make more money and always start off with a better team.

Forgive me but I am struggling to understand what argument now is? The only thing we can do to stop the 'bigger' clubs having more money is to give every club the same amount of money across the board. Is this what you would like to see? Each club in Division 1 is given £15m, £10m for Div 2 and so on? This would fundamentally change the game from what is is and has been and I suspect most members would not want this change. Something like this could be an option in Custom Game Worlds a long with teams starting with the same amounts (£150m) and no players in the squads.

The amount a club 'we' give it is less reliant on gate receipts and tended towards TV revenue which is split equally across all the clubs in the division making the new system fairer to smaller clubs, which I have stated in previous posts. The ultimate amount a club can make is based on the manager in charge and what they do with the resources and assets at the club, ie buying and selling players or doing well on the pitch.

Depending on the gameworld ? can you elaborate on that? as i dont understand why that should matter

If Darlington were put in a 1 Division Custom Game World with Real Madrid, Man Utd etc the average amount they receive for TV revenue and gate receipts would be higher than if they were put in a 1 Division Custom Game World with Grays Atheletic, Histon etc.

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

I would just like to say that I currently have Northwich Victoria in a custom setup which has NO big teams. They are all lower English league teams and even conference teams. The idea of this set up was to give every team an equal chance with player ratings and stadium capacity. No Man Utds and Liverpools dominating things. Teams would succeed on the managers ability to wheel and deal in the market with good scouting ability whilst managing a small budget.

I know the managers out side of the SM enviroment so we have spoken about this issue. Where all the managers were managing their squads and balancing the books with the budgets set at the begining of the league, this has been thrown into chaos by the reduction in revenue. All the Managers in the league are massively in debt and frantically buying and selling players just to suvive.

I myself am in debt to a tune of 5m and I only have a wage bill of £200k.

Im really pleased that you have taken note of the situation and are reviewing things I have renewed my faith in SM.

But what ever your going to do do it fast.:D

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

SM reflects this now by having your transfer kitty separate from your main funds' date=' the only thing i'm not clear on is what the consequences will be if you are always in debt/ or get into huge amounts of debt? :confused:[/quote']

Thought i'd ask the question again - everyone is getting in a flap about being in debt but if you're smart with your transfers then you'll always have transfer funds, so what does it matter if you're in debt under club balance?

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

Hi Guys,

Just thought I would update this thread as I have stumbled across a Darlington in an English Champ Division 1, and seeing as I have used Darlington as an example of how the new system is a lot fairer I thought I would see if what I have been saying in this thread is actually happening in Game Worlds :)

The club is managed by no one connected to SM in anyway and I only found the club as I was looking into a support ticket they had sent in.

Firstly on the point that attendances don't increase as you move up the divisions.

They have just played their first home game of the season and received an attendance of 18,359 against Man City. Their average attendance in Division 4 is usually 3,029. The 18,359 is there starting attendance as they have only played 1 game so far, if they start doing well on the pitch then they will start filling the stadium even more.

Secondly our point that clubs like Darlington are better off under the new system.

Every home game that they play they are earning £1.03m, £520k (slightly over 50%) came from TV revenue. Under the old system Darlington would have earned no where near this amount of revenue.

What their outgoings add up to is entirely down to the manager and how many players and what quality of players they have. In this case the outgoings are £550k a turn, the squad size is 25 and has some good players in it along with some big names like VAN DER SAR and GIULY. So over a 2 game cycle the club loose around £70k or around £1.3m a season. However when you factor in a cup run (guaranteed at least 2 games, which is a money spinner as no wages are paid out), plus prize money the club will make a profit over the season.

Thirdly, the chairman Injections still do happen. In fact they are more likely and generous to smaller clubs. This Darlington received an injection of £7,926,000.

Fourthly, as mentioned early the squad has only 25 players with an average rating of 86. The manager has been capable of getting the team to the top division and proving that there is no need for a massive squad.

Fifthly, the manager has spent £12.8m on transfers and received £7.8m from sales. Which I think highlights that clubs are still able to buy and sell and be active in the transfer market!! This is probably due to the money Darlington have got is 'worth more' as there is less inflation in the GW and less money about!

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

Thanks for continuing to show an interest but I would have to say that you have found a great example of a where the reduction in attendance has worked but you would probably find many more where it hasn't.

Your point on the increase in attendance and stadium increases interests me as on the turn of the season my chairman didnt invest any money (fair enough) but did increase by capacity from 4,500 to 6,624 (again fair enough) however as with the first season where I was just about filling my stadium for every home game and managing my funds accordingly I now average 1,063. (Which is the third worst in the league) This with the stadium increase ?? Not sure what the point of that was. I'm in the 1st division and also 6th in the league so my form isn't to bad either.

PS As I said in another reply I'm 5m in debt......... Help!

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

All the things that have been said so far by the developers in this thread still haven't convinced me that the changes are for the good.

These changes may very well be good for GC's where even in the poorest of game worlds over 100 teams are managed and players are spread out more between clubs but in a standard game world of 80 teams where 20 clubs are managed these changes just don't work.

I don't see the point in not being able to buy 95+ rated players because since you've made these changes they're not even affordable to clubs with 60,000+ capacity stadia. You'd struggle to have just 2 90+ rated players in a 21 man squad with Darlington in division 1. Considering there's 100's upon 100's of 90+ rated players in the game I personally think it's a complete waste of resources that we aren't able to utilise these players in standard game worlds (specifically domestic league game worlds).

My Darlington are now in division 1 and I've got 15 90+ rated players. My wage bill is £1.02m per game and I'm making £925k every other game. It's not hard to realise that I'm making a considerable loss now. Around 10 of the 15 90+ rated players I have for Darlington I bought whilst they were under 90 and now I'm being forced to sell 90% of them. Quite a number of those 90+ rated players are still currently on £21,000 contracts from before they rose so my wage bill is only going to rise more in the future when I have to renew them.

I built this squad up over a period of 1 1/2 years. I've had quite a few people private messaging me saying that I'm "cheating" and that I shouldn't be able to have such players. I've got to this point not for the fact I check the forum regularly for risers but for the fact I enjoy world football.

Before I started playing SM I was disillusioned with football. I didn't care a single bit about Seria A, La Liga or Bundesliga and I was seriously starting to lose interest in the Premiership. What this game has done is make me realise that there's so much more to football than just the Premiership. There's so many great players out there that if I hadn't been playing SM I truly wouldn't have known about.

Back to the current situation though. I think you're going to have so much debt in standard game worlds with the way things are currently going because managers want to buy the best players and they certainly don't want to have to sell their best players. I certainly won't be selling my best players and will just go in to debt like many, many others.

Edit: Just to put it in to perspective;

Approx. 40 90+ rated goalkeepers on the db.

Approx. 115 90+ rated defenders on the db.

Approx. 180 90+ rated midfielders on the db.

Approx. 85 90+ rated forwards on the db.

And Darlington are only able to afford 2 of those when in division 1 of an English championship which gives little hope for 90% of the other teams.

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

I'm not someone who really keeps a close eye on what is going in and out etc I just usually keep an eye on my total balance.

The 2 main teams I manage are both Grimsby Towns and have done so since I started the game what about 2/3 years ago now, poor little stadium in real life and not a great deal better on the game.

Since the changes my debt has been less than it usually would be during a season, and I have 2 super sides for crummy little Grimsby which inc a few 90's, a 95 and loads of 88's / 89's.

I usually go into debt far, far faster during a season than what I do since the changes, maybe the changes have not hit my gameworlds yet I dunno (EC3 & EC45)

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

This is how i understood it to work' date=' however in GC10 there is only one Scottish Division so my Queens Park can never be pomoted for attendances to go up.

Therefore the average attendance of D1 crowds should apply (12-14,000-ish) yet instead (despite sending a couple of support tickets) i still receive real-life attendances (957 in my last match :rolleyes:).

I'm not complaining about not getting 50,000+ crowds, all i'm looking for is what you've stated above to be applied :)[/quote']

Another week, another home crowd of 1000 :rolleyes:

I note my comments seem to be the only that haven't received a response (so far?)

A guy could get paranoid here! ;):)

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

Hi Guys' date='

Just thought I would update this thread as I have stumbled across a Darlington in an English Champ Division 1, and seeing as I have used Darlington as an example of how the new system is a lot fairer I thought I would see if what I have been saying in this thread is actually happening in Game Worlds :)

The club is managed by no one connected to SM in anyway and I only found the club as I was looking into a support ticket they had sent in.

Firstly on the point that attendances don't increase as you move up the divisions.

They have just played their first home game of the season and received an attendance of 18,359 against Man City. Their average attendance in Division 4 is usually 3,029. The 18,359 is there starting attendance as they have only played 1 game so far, if they start doing well on the pitch then they will start filling the stadium even more.

Secondly our point that clubs like Darlington are better off under the new system.

Every home game that they play they are earning £1.03m, £520k (slightly over 50%) came from TV revenue. Under the old system Darlington would have earned no where near this amount of revenue.

What their outgoings add up to is entirely down to the manager and how many players and what quality of players they have. In this case the outgoings are £550k a turn, the squad size is 25 and has some good players in it along with some big names like VAN DER SAR and GIULY. So over a 2 game cycle the club loose around £70k or around £1.3m a season. However when you factor in a cup run (guaranteed at least 2 games, which is a money spinner as no wages are paid out), plus prize money the club will make a profit over the season.

Thirdly, the chairman Injections still do happen. In fact they are more likely and generous to smaller clubs. This Darlington received an injection of £7,926,000.

Fourthly, as mentioned early the squad has only 25 players with an average rating of 86. The manager has been capable of getting the team to the top division and proving that there is no need for a massive squad.

Fifthly, the manager has spent £12.8m on transfers and received £7.8m from sales. Which I think highlights that clubs are still able to buy and sell and be active in the transfer market!! This is probably due to the money Darlington have got is 'worth more' as there is less inflation in the GW and less money about![/quote']

I can respect the effort that went into this post...

...HOWEVER, what this post speaks to more than anything else is the SM Devs' inability to admit that they made a big (but easily fixed) mistake in their most recent attendance changes. Very disappointing...

Anyone can provide some random one-off example to support their position. Big deal.

Some random Darlington team in some random set-up might be better off due to the attendance changes, but the FACT is that MOST of the teams in the MAJORITY of set-ups are worse-off due to these changes.

I give them a lot of credit for tinkering with this; however, they should rightly see that it was a bad idea and change it back and then work on another fix.

I don't understand why the push-back from SM on fixing this. It's disappointing, especially when put in context with (1) the lack of other meaningful enhancements to this game and (2) the snail's pace execution/implementation of the few enhancements that do take place. (And that's not even mentioning the shocking lack of meaningful advertisement/revenue enhancements.) This isn't rocket science. Who knows... maybe it's an organization stretched thin (which is completely understandable given the current economic environment).

Aside: My 2 cents... Like with everything in life, sometimes it's difficult to see the forest through the trees. The hang-up here is the REALITY of football, and SM's interpretation of REALITY when it comes to implementing changes to this game.

This game won't drastically improve until SM begin to make the game more dynamic for the users. I am not talking about some ludicrously misplaced 2-D graphics idea. I am talking about giving the users the ability to make their gameworld environments more customizable.

Regarding the attendances..... What is so hard with at a minimum allowing the gameworld owners to dictate whether or not they want (1) real life attendances, (2) or something else. What's wrong with giving users the option.

It's early in the a.m. here in NYC... This probably could have been written better....

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

something need to be done, i think its still not good enough, im losing way to much money playing away from home and even in home games. The best thing that good happen is if you could spend some of your budget on making your stadium a lttle bigger e.g 5 million for an extra 5,000 seasts something like that. Or if you go up a division maybe your chairman will increase your stadium by a few K:D

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  • 2 weeks later...

Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

something need to be done' date=' i think its still not good enough, im losing way to much money playing away from home and even in home games. The best thing that good happen is if you could spend some of your budget on making your stadium a lttle bigger e.g 5 million for an extra 5,000 seasts something like that. Or if you go up a division maybe your chairman will increase your stadium by a few K:D[/quote']

Stadium increases have not helped. My chairman increased my stadium at the time that the reduction in attendance came through which ultimately gave me less gate reciepts.

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

I manage Barca in wc4036. I have the biggest stadium in the league, yet attendances are 30k below capacity? Man utd, Madrid and Bayern don't apper to have that problem, why? Is this a problem throughout the game. It's a joke!

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

hi i tried to make sense of gate receipts and the income and it didnt really make sense i got a crowd of 72.611 but only gate receipts of 609.932 that would mean ticket prices are only £8.40 surely this cant be right either can anyone help with this??:confused:

Bundesliga: Borussia Dortmund v Vfl Bochum

Saturday, 17 October 2009 at 15:30

Signal Iduna Park, Dortmund, Germany

SEAT LOCATION PRICE QTY

BEHIND THE GOALS (CURVE) More Info. £ 77.98

(€ 84.50) BUY TICKETS

TOP SEATS LONGSIDE More Info. £ 101.98

(€ 110.50) BUY TICKETS

EXCELLENT SEATS LONGSIDE More Info. £ 161.96

(€ 175.50) BUY TICKETS

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

Signal Iduna Park' date=' Dortmund, Germany

SEAT LOCATION PRICE QTY

BEHIND THE GOALS (CURVE) More Info. £ 77.98

(€ 84.50) BUY TICKETS

TOP SEATS LONGSIDE More Info. £ 101.98

(€ 110.50) BUY TICKETS

EXCELLENT SEATS LONGSIDE More Info. £ 161.96

(€ 175.50) BUY TICKETS[/quote']

I don't know where you've got your prices from but the one's you've posted are a joke. £80 to stand behind the goal? You're having a laugh!

You also haven't taken in to account that about 50,000 of the 72,000 would be season ticket holders.

Edit: If you want the true ticket prices for Borussia Dortmund then look no further than http://www.bvb.de/?%98Y%1B%E4%F4%9D where you'll find a listing of all available prices.

So from those prices you'll note that standing tickets in The Südtribüne are about £14 each for 25,000 of the 80,000 capacity and that's suggesting there's no season ticket holders or youths!

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

What division are you in' date=' if your in the lower divisions dont expect big attendances with barca[/quote']

5th in the top flight mate. As i said, why are Barca the only club to suffer from ridiculous attendances?

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

What division are you in' date=' if your in the lower divisions dont expect big attendances with barca[/quote']

Wouldn't you 30k below capacity at Barca would be strange? As i said, it doesn't seem to be a problem at the other big clubs in the division. I don't mean to sound bitter, but let's get real here!

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

I don't know where you've got your prices from but the one's you've posted are a joke. £80 to stand behind the goal? You're having a laugh!

You also haven't taken in to account that about 50' date='000 of the 72,000 would be season ticket holders.

Edit: If you want the true ticket prices for Borussia Dortmund then look no further than [url']http://www.bvb.de/?%98Y%1B%E4%F4%9D[/url] where you'll find a listing of all available prices.

So from those prices you'll note that standing tickets in The Südtribüne are about £14 each for 25,000 of the 80,000 capacity and that's suggesting there's no season ticket holders or youths!

laugh at this then ..http://www.1st4footballtickets.com/Tickets/SelectTickets.aspx?Q=Fta8bQdxaGxadB3CjmxQuw%3d%3d

as for season tickets only got 5.8 million so do the math and tell me 50000 of that is season ticket sales that would be £11.60 still doesnt seem right does it????

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  • 4 weeks later...

Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

Ok so now I’m confused.

Story so far......

Reduced attendances + less money = I’m in debt.

So to combat this I’ve been playing the transfer game buy buying players prior to their expected rises. I was pretty successful too having reduced my debt to a manageable level and even amassed a 6m transfer budget. Not bad for Northwich Victoria I thought and gave myself a pat on the back.

So I finished 4th and got about 900k in prize money not much to shout about but still I was looking forward to the next season....

That was until my chairman decided to not invest any money and take away my 6m transfer budget!

If I knew this was going to happen I would have spent it prior to the last game!

It’s not as if the money has been taken away and put in the balance to aid with wages and expenses. It’s just GONE never to be seen again.

What am I supposed to do now?

Oh he did increase my stadium and we all know what a pointless exercise that going to be.

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

Ok so now I’m confused.

Story so far......

Reduced attendances + less money = I’m in debt.

So to combat this I’ve been playing the transfer game buy buying players prior to their expected rises. I was pretty successful too having reduced my debt to a manageable level and even amassed a 6m transfer budget. Not bad for Northwich Victoria I thought and gave myself a pat on the back.

So I finished 4th and got about 900k in prize money not much to shout about but still I was looking forward to the next season....

That was until my chairman decided to not invest any money and take away my 6m transfer budget!

If I knew this was going to happen I would have spent it prior to the last game!

It’s not as if the money has been taken away and put in the balance to aid with wages and expenses. It’s just GONE never to be seen again.

What am I supposed to do now?

Oh he did increase my stadium and we all know what a pointless exercise that going to be.

Shelbourne's right; if you had spent the old transfer budget it would have been spending money you didn't actually have in the bank. It would have just put you into debt (and increased the wage bill) which would have made the situation even harder to get out of.

Your chairman will not keep reinvesting if he thinks your squad is of a value that will allow you to complete.

The stadium increase should help your finances as it will increase your weekly income.

If you want to buy a player soon though, you will probably need to sell someone.

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Re: "Crippling attendances and gate receipts"

Shelbourne's right; if you had spent the old transfer budget it would have been spending money you didn't actually have in the bank. It would have just put you into debt (and increased the wage bill) which would have made the situation even harder to get out of.

Your chairman will not keep reinvesting if he thinks your squad is of a value that will allow you to complete.

The stadium increase should help your finances as it will increase your weekly income.

If you want to buy a player soon though' date=' you will probably need to sell someone.[/quote']

But does the realistic attendances not negate the increase in stadium size. Won't he still get his usual low attendances. In real life they are less than full, why have them expanded?

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